Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 22:23:10 No. 644335
It was a form of land back and it was wrong then and wrong now, there has never been a geographically defined black belt since the Great Migration started
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 22:24:06 No. 644337
>civil rights equals land ownership
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 22:27:13 No. 644343
>>644330 It’s not Landback because it’s not sponsored by Jeff Bezos
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 22:29:14 No. 644344
Fuck off with this fed bullshit about landback, libuyghur
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 22:35:49 No. 644352
It is land back
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 23:04:39 No. 644393
fuck land back, we need land forward
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 23:20:54 No. 644410
>>644330 I guess because one is just supposed to give majority black areas autonomy or even independence, with the assumption that the black population would be sovereign because they would make up the majority. The plan was shaky at best.
Meanwhile on the other hand the land back movement would put land and the people living on it under the control of a minority and politically disenfranchize a majority. That can not go well.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 03:02:20 No. 644758
>>644410 >Meanwhile on the other hand the land back movement would put land and the people living on it under the control of a minority and politically disenfranchize a majority. That can not go well. The lands the indigenous want back are lands where the indigenous already make up the vast majority of residents.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 03:12:24 No. 644771
>>644330 >Give me ONE LOGICAL REASON why picrel isn't a form of Land Back. Because the poster screams "equal rights for Negroes" and "self determination for the "Black Belt"" which is clearly NOT "Give these colonized lands back to their rightful owners!."
Implying autonomy, I would say.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 03:13:49 No. 644775
>>644771 HUUUURR MY OPINION IS ORIGINAL AND IMPORTANT BUMP
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 03:14:36 No. 644780
>>644771 >NOT "Give these colonized lands back to their rightful owners!." It implies that, because Black labor made the South.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 03:48:00 No. 644798
>>644330 "Land Back" is merely a means of mass land privatizations. The NGOs claiming to represent indigenous nations are calling for the seizure of ALL public lands and handing them back over to tribal leaders (landlords, basically). Meaning, that public park where you take your kids now belongs to Squanto. Not to mention, once the lands are in the hands of tribal leaders those tribal leaders can sell large chunks of the land to corporations, which is exactly why Bezos and Musk are so eagerly supporting this movement.
It's apples and oranges when compared to a socialist Black republic comprised of territories in the South/Mid Atlantic that have been Black-majority for the past 200 years.
>>644335 Anyone who has seen an ancestry map of the US knows this is blatantly false.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 09:48:48 No. 645027
>>644330 "Land Back" is caught up in the current culture war, your picture isn't.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:42:43 No. 645114
>>644337 Learn what self-determination is.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:48:23 No. 645120
>>644775 This
>>645114 >>645117 >What the fuck does it even mean to "self determine?" It could be just mere autonomy or free-association-esque things, not full independence.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:49:54 No. 645123
This is the most honkified, white bread, cracker filled, ethnic-hating “leftist “ site on the entire internet, literally shat out of 8chan’s /pol/ like a tapeworm
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:52:52 No. 645128
It was, and there's literally nothing wrong with "Landback" per se, though of course it's meaning is often extremely vague which is why corporations and such can hijack it. I don't think anybody here has a major issue with say, ceding lands promised in treaties to indigenous people (provided any non-indigenous people on the land are given full tribal citizenship).
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:53:03 No. 645129
>>645120 Again what do those terms even mean? They are meaningless. If by autonomous you mean having self determination over ones actions in total then they basically already have that. It's idealistic hogwash. If you mean not being influenced by the economic determination of the capitalist market system then you are talking about controlling production only for black people?
What the FUCK do you people even mean?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:53:41 No. 645130
>>645123 Oh shit the fuck up you stupid ass hippy get a job.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:55:01 No. 645133
>>645123 you need to go back
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:58:19 No. 645142
>>645129 It means the ability of black people to determine their own internal affairs with minimal interference from the white majority.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:58:20 No. 645143
>>645130 Unlike you I’m actually employed, faggot
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 12:59:32 No. 645147
>>645128 The vast majority of this board is opposed to that
In the Europe thread half the posters are openly opposed to ending European colonialism
This is, indeed, a /pol/ off-shoot, but even smaller
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:06:35 No. 645162
>>645142 This, but I would say that it's better to have no interference by the white majority.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:07:02 No. 645164
>>645159 And yet posters here only cope to those arguments specifically due to their antipathy towards non-whites
Let’s face it, the average poster here is a white suburbanite that imagines himself to be Stalin and fantasize about deporting blacks and natives to and from, here and there
Most of this board see people like me as their pawns who exist to die for their beliefs and be shackled to their nation
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:10:38 No. 645168
>>645159 this
>>645164 >imagines himself to be Stalin and fantasize about deporting blacks and natives get a load of this jewish nigger
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:13:57 No. 645178
>>645170 How full of shit does somebody have to be to respond to arguments they know nobody is making here?
Do you think this board gets literally any outside interactions at all, i.e. people from other websites come here regularly?
You think redditors of all people use fucking Leftypol when they won’t even venture to 4chan?
No, lefty/pol/fags make these arguments out of contempt and antipathy, because they know logically that nobody in this board would be making those arguments.
They believe in European domination of non-European peoples, it is quite evident
Aren’t half the people here “rehabilitated” fascoids that started out on /pol/ as per their own admission?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:18:41 No. 645189
>>645178 >How full of shit does somebody have to be to respond to arguments they know nobody is making here? They aren't. They just have a specific idea of what "Landback" means which is only partially correct, and so when somebody asks "What do you think of landback?" they give the response appropriate to the notion of it that they hold.
>They believe in European domination of non-European peoples, it is quite evident Weird because every time a thread pops up with some fashoid arguing for European supremacy he gets mobbed with people telling him in detail why he's a retard. I mean if you want to argue that a lot of people here hold unexamined vestiges of white supremacist or Eurocentric thinking then that's reasonable. It's entirely ridiculous however to think that misconceptions about Landback prove that a significant number of people here are conscious white supremacists. Can you show me any serious post that advocates for the subordination of non white peoples?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:25:19 No. 645207
>>645178 >They believe in European domination of non-European peoples Show evidence please
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 13:47:48 No. 645248
>>644330 If you read Black Reconstruction then you already know why it is.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 14:08:10 No. 645269
>>645257 >one post endorsing the PCF's stance in Algeria means a bulk of leftypol supports colonialism Also wasn't the PCF's stance that Algeria should remain a part of France but that Algerians should be granted equal rights to ethnic French? It's surprisingly hard to find any details online that aren't behind a paywall.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 14:15:13 No. 645276
>>645257 i asked for evidence moron, you made an argument about the population of leftypol and so far you've given me a sample size of 1
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 14:15:22 No. 645277
>ownership >borders >ethnicities >ethnic ownership over borders
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 14:29:58 No. 645283
>>645269 "The Communist party was less a direct participant in the nationalist movement than a fermenting or leavening agent. Around and within it swirled debates about class and nation, evolution and revolution, collaboration or confrontation with moderate or conservative indigenous movements. It also provided the banners and the organization under which m any Algerians first took to the streets to demonstrate their Opposition to the status quo. But communism in this colonial context generated contradictions that proved ultimately unresolvable. … The early party membership was predominantly European, and while they had voted to accept the twenty-one conditions of August 1920 of the Communist International, it is clear most never fundamentally questioned the appropriateness of their own superior position in a colonial society. T o the extent they were able, they would enlist native collaboration in the struggle to undermine bourgeois government, but they could not envisage replacing French government with Algerian government. In the early 1930s, orders came from the Komintern via Paris to work at Arabizing the party, which provoked wholesale defections of Europeans for a time. When the Communist party joined Léon Blum’s Popular Front in 1936, however, Europeans began to filter back into its ranks, in spite o f the Front’s support o f moderate reform measures. But because o f the party’s persistent condemnation o f the nationalist demands o f the Etoile and its successor, the Parti du peuple algérien, it then began to lose ground again amongst the Algerians. Algerian nationalists never forgave the Communists for consistently putting the interests France or Frenchmen above those of their community."
I believe you're right; the french communists preferred assimilation to self determination. When I'm done shitting at work, I can find a source on that for you in this book if you like, or you can look for yourself.
French Communists were also against Syrian/Lebanese independence btw, and that similarly damaged the ability of communism to spread; see the second pdf.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:06:15 No. 645313
>>645283 This was actually one reason for the birth of Postcolonial Theory IIRC.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:08:42 No. 645316
>>645027 How is Land Back a "culture war" and not an anti-colonial struggle?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:11:39 No. 645320
>>645283 I'd agree that their position was deeply flawed and incorrect, but at the same time I wouldn't consider it to be advocating for European supremacy. The in its later stages the French colonial empire sought to present itself as a union of nationalities under a single Republic. This was a front of course, but if one takes the concept seriously I wouldn't consider it to be a form of racism to support maintaining the unity of such a unit, provided that the constituent nationalities were actually treated equally and with respect.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:30:27 No. 645335
>>645128 >though of course it's meaning is often extremely vague which is why corporations and such can hijack it. Ask five different leftists do define what is meant by "land back" and they'll give you 17 different answers.
That's what makes it such a great slogan. It doesn't mean anything. It's exactly like "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" from the 2000s American wars.
There are some indigenous people who merely want the US and Canada to respect land treaties, which is a policy even the most milquetoast socdem could get behind. Then there are others who believe Land Back is a call for the entire dismantling of the US and Canada as political entities, with all land seaboard to seaboard being handed over to their "original" inhabitants who will then attempt to resurrect their pre-colonial governmental systems (good luck with getting a city of 8 million like NYC to run according to Mohawk tribal law without shit going to hell in an instant). Then there are others who merely want all public/federal lands to be handed over to indigenous leaders with "settlers" living within the US/Canada to pay a settler tax to the tribe in exchange for living on the land (basically amounts to feudalism and mafia-like extortion but okay).
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:41:45 No. 645349
>>644330 You don't understand, this was the based CPUSA period, before the cockroach Browder took over and stabbed the working-class in the back in the back, especially the African section. He turned the CPUSA into a class-collaborative organization supporting US Nationalism, Chauvinism and imperialism.
It is the Browderite class-traitor version of the CPUSA that these cuckholds of the capitalist class like Haz, Peter Coffin and Caleb Mausulini uphold
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:42:27 No. 645350
>>645335 >basically amounts to feudalism and mafia-like extortion but okay But you see, they are historically marginalized so it's okay.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:44:19 No. 645352
>>645349 WZF supported the Popular Front as well, dipshit.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:46:38 No. 645355
>>645335 >It doesn't mean anything It objectively means pushing back against the federal state encroachment and and their infrastructure projects, since that's what the landback people essentially did.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:46:45 No. 645356
>>645354 How is he not to blame for some of this shit as well?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:47:40 No. 645359
>>645349 What years counted as the CPUSA's based period?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:53:07 No. 645365
>>645355 Not everyone advocating Land Back is anti-infrastructure though. Again, there are some indigenous activists who are only calling for their treaties to be respected and upheld. The only infrastructure they're against are things like oil pipelines running through their territories, especially over their sacred sites.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:56:45 No. 645370
>>645365 >The only infrastructure they're against are things like oil pipelines running through their territories Even then, some are totally fine with it as long as they get a decent share of the revenues. In Canada part of the difficulty with putting through resource development or pipeline projects is that they have to navigate a patchwork of varying Indigenous communities all with their own interests and preferences, some of which can conflict with each other. They're far from a monolithic entity, which makes perfect sense considering that each nation can be as different from their neighbours as French are from Germans or Anglos.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:59:46 No. 645374
>>645365 Not really, they pushed against a lot of stuff: railways, dams, condos projects, pipelines etc and for the federal state to give lands to tribes.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:00:19 No. 645375
>>645370 Correct. That's the reason for the protests on Wet'suwet'en territory right now: the designated tribal leaders are pro-pipeline while many of the people are against it.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:00:44 No. 645377
>>645143 >>645143 Currently at my production job making 24 bucks an hour. Cope and seeth.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:02:05 No. 645382
>>645142 And how would that look? A black ethno state? Just call it what it is lmao. It's fascism.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:05:33 No. 645389
>>645178 No you anarchi primitivist retard. We believe in flattening the hierarchical domination of the economy by all people and evening the playing field by giving control of production to all the people who work in those places.
Not a specific few based on something as dumb and arbitrary as ethnicity. No one here is against helping black people and poc and other minority groups but what we are against is retards like you proclaiming that any one particular group should replace the hegemony or some how is superior or better than another in some way.
That's literally just repeating the same fallacious logic that got us in this mess in the first place historically.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:06:05 No. 645393
>>645382 It would probably look a lot like the SSRs in the Soviet Union, which is to say a political unit within a larger federation which has no explicit ethnic character as such, but with borders designed to establish black people as its majority. This is the only way to have self determination without any explicit discrimination.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 16:11:21 No. 645403
>>645393 See and I am not even specifically against something like this. If black people want to establish a political front in our socialist utopia then I'm cool with that. But don't go around implying that land can be "owned" because of your skin color. That's nothing that we as communists stand for.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 17:42:02 No. 645537
>>645320 It’s the same reason why PCF has been so terrible when it comes to regional minorities in France, like Occitan speakers and Bretons.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 17:52:30 No. 645549
>>645393 I think Leninists in particular might overemphasize the importance of this kind of activity when you can look at examples in the 20th century of self-determination not resolving ethnic conflict (particularly Yugoslavia). Instead it could often serve as a new basis for class collaboration along nationalist and ethnic lines, contrary to the theory that it would help redirect animosity to the national bourgeoisie, because persistent uneven development allowed the national bourgeoisie or political leaders to blame foreigners and drum up a nationalist reaction.
Which isn't even to say I'm directly against it, I just think sometimes it is more nuanced than the blanket and rather dogmatic adherence to the mantra "self-determination". In the American case it almost feels like the left makes some of these issues up to fit their historical traditions. Like they contextualize ethnic issues in terms of the historical tradition of communists to support "self-determination" even though it may not be the case that the ethnic minorities in question are actually the source of the majority of campaigns and discussions around it.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 17:52:55 No. 645551
>>645374 Care to give examples?
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 17:54:31 No. 645552
>>645549 Instead of "foreigners" I should've just said other ehtnic groups, since I had mentioned Yugoslavia.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 17:54:34 No. 645553
>>645549 I agree. Certainly the formalization of ethnic divisions in Yugoslavia and the USSR contributed to the dissolution of both. That being said I still think that an option for self determination should always be available, and the SSR model is probably best example so far.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 18:01:51 No. 645560
>>645248 https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/reconstruction-revisionism/ Writer for
The American Conservative rails against 'Reconstruction Revisionism' because its proponents have argued it didn't go far enough; and by 'far enough' she means, "all the way to a 1917-style revolution"
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 18:02:41 No. 645561
>>645560 It's funny because she more or less concedes that Du Bois is right, albeit in a roundabout way.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 18:09:32 No. 645566
There's no nations within America because America isn't a nation yet (despite being the biggest empire ever) all of them were broken up including the "white" one. It's better to force everyone to live together and create and enforce new national identity rather than have hyphonated americans. I garuantee this is a better long term solution than what Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union did.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 18:18:18 No. 645576
>>645566 If anything, it is the bourgeoisie who want America to balkanize. I know some on the left want America to balkanize because they think it would make it easier to resist American hegemony globally, but I think America could conceivable just "balkanize" by maintaining a union for national military expense, but reducing the authority of the federal state in other matters. Kind of like a more integrated eurozone.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 19:27:24 No. 645638
>>645606 Emotional blackmail, basically.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 19:29:04 No. 645642
>>644330 Daily reminder the CPUSA had little to no interest in Black liberation until Moscow told them to push for it.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 19:53:27 No. 645675
>>645606 They win liberated territories through armed struggles.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 20:53:48 No. 645771
>>645675 M8 I don't think you know how PPW is supposed to work.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 20:58:38 No. 645779
>>645606 because everyone will agree it's the right thing to do and agree to it without a fight
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 21:07:59 No. 645791
>>644330 >Give me ONE LOGICAL REASON why picrel isn't a form of Land Back. Well for one it doesnt transfer any property rights, it just draws different lines in the sands for where one government ends and the next begins. All the white people inside the black belt can live in their homes, work their jobs, they just now live in a new state that is majority black.
Landback, the jeff bezos owned grift, is explicitly about privatising all public land into the hands of native americans, effectively putting it outside of control of the government and laws of the USA, while still allowing the capitalists to operate and develop the land. So youre just full of shit and you need to read the programmes that you defend instead of believing shitlibs online.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 21:13:27 No. 645802
>>645791 >and laws of the USA *because there are special provisions and exceptions to a lot of laws made for native american reservations/owners.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 22:12:08 No. 645899
>>645642 >muh soviet puppets Get out.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 22:14:22 No. 645903
>>645738 LA is majority Latino and the vast majority of Latinos have indigenous ancestry.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 22:24:30 No. 645914
black people are colonizers
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 22:31:53 No. 645923
>>645791 > is explicitly about privatising all public land into the hands of native americans, effectively putting it outside of control of the government and laws of the USA, while still allowing the capitalists to operate and develop the land. Exactly my problem with it and the reason why big capitalists seem to take no issue with it.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 22:35:23 No. 645931
>>645320 >I wouldn't consider it to be advocating for European supremacy. The thing is, the assimilationist approach required action against the ultra-reactionary colonists in algeria - action that the french communists were not able to carry out, because they had coalition partners to their right that forbade it. I don't think they explicitly advocated white supremacy either - they simply sacrificed algerians(and levantines) at the altar of parliamentary politics, and we can see the results from the horrible showing of communists in those areas since. Personally I think it's less a strike against, idk, "the white working class" and more a strike against electoralism and reformism.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 23:26:40 No. 646034
>muh bezos
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 23:51:11 No. 646064
>>645922 they are not native to the americas
>inb4 they didn't come here willingly when an invading army takes your land, they usually bring their slaves with them. When you kill the invaders, you also kill their slaves.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:13:42 No. 646085
>>646064 Many indigenous people were also slaveowners. Look at the Cherokee, for instance.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:14:21 No. 646086
>>646064 >inb4 they didn't come here willingly Unlike all the other immigrants of course who definitely weren't fleeing repression, famine, war, and literal serfdom in their respective countries of origin.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:15:14 No. 646087
>>646086 I mean, how many American Jews are only in America because the only other option was to be slaughtered either by the Czar's goons or by Nazis?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:18:44 No. 646094
>>646087 When my grandfather came to leafland from Poland it was clearly because he hated natives and definitely not because the Nazis left his entire town a smoking ruin.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:20:17 No. 646097
>>646094 >tfw the other fosterite kitty is also canadian and jewish Bloody hell.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:27:47 No. 646104
>>646097 >Jewish No, but remember that the Nazis saw even non-Jewish Poles as subhuman.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:32:05 No. 646110
>>646104 Ah, so we're not cousins after all. My mistake comrade.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:32:12 No. 646112
>>646064 Man
You Europeans really are savage animals, eh?
Honestly I’d be proud to die fighting crackers in a civil war in this country, I hate y’all
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:41:05 No. 646133
>>646110 I do have one (secular) Jewish great grandparent but he was German and successfully evaded the Nazis by having false documents forged by a Catholic priest.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:49:21 No. 646142
>>646064 >they are not native to the Americas Why not? It's been over 400 years now, how long does any people group have to stay before they become indigenous to the area?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 00:56:36 No. 646151
>>646142 That would mean that white people are indigenous too
which they are. Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 01:14:14 No. 646174
>>646142 My father's ancestors came to Turtle Island from the Netherlands and Scotland in the 1600s. "America" is the only "homeland" his side of the family knows.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 02:26:37 No. 646253
>>646064 >When you kill the invaders, you also kill their slaves. thank god the people of this mindset don't make it hard to show how their mindset is roughly trapped at about the level of 150CE
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 04:37:34 No. 646358
>>646220 nice try but if anything landback is more in tune with the palestinian struggle against colonialism. ask yourself, if Land Back was moderate and inoffensive toward imperialism and capitalism, why would the US state systematically send troops and cops to crush them?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 04:42:40 No. 646365
>>646358 >if Land Back was moderate and inoffensive toward imperialism and capitalism, why would the US state systematically send troops and cops to crush them? They aren't doing that at all. In fact, they're doing the opposite: Land Back is extremely common in modern academia all over American universities.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 04:46:09 No. 646370
>>646365 no it's not lmao, stop believing random things you fall upon on facebook and instagram
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 05:00:15 No. 646385
>>646370 I'm… literally engaged to a grad student.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 05:25:48 No. 646409
>>646365 >>646358 You guys do realize you clearly aren't talking about the same thing right? Like one person is criticizing corporate Landback and another person is defending actual indigenous land struggles which fall under the "Landback" umbrella. You clearly are referring to different things when each of you uses the term "Landback". Do people seriously bit realize when they talk past each other like this?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 06:33:48 No. 646436
>>646430 About half of CPUSA members are feds.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 06:40:54 No. 646443
>>646436 I am not talking about the CPUSA of today. Back in time CPUSA was good and based until trotskyism + COINTELPRO infiltrated everything.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 14:19:57 No. 646645
>>644330 Will white man also get land back once globohomo is through with us?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:00:22 No. 646676
>>646086 Maybe you’re a retard from Reddit, or maybe you’re just a retard, but inb4 is used to anticipate the arguments of other people. I’m not pro landback, I’m against it in all forms. I just wanted to illustrate that the blacks are just as much “settlers” as anyone else and therefore the “blackbelt” isn’t a land “back” idea.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:04:32 No. 646682
>>646676 M8 I'm agreeing with with you, I used that greentext to make the exact same point you are.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:13:47 No. 646696
>>646385 And? They also teach Marx and frequently talk about how right he was in contemporary academia, does that mean the US state is amenable to Marxism you stupid nigha?
You're on rightoid delusion if you think academia holds the levers to power
Why not struggle alongside indigenous people fighting land privatizations and the construction of oil pipelines to see how sympathetic America's police forces are to them, sheltered suburbanite faggot
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:18:24 No. 646702
>>646694 >Christianity justified the killing of natives Man are there people who are still this steeped in idealism? Do they not understand the difference between base and superstructure? Yeah, Christianity was initially used as an ideological justification for colonialism, but colonialism as a mode of production could and did deploy any number of possible justifications. When the natives were largely converted to Christianity then they invented shit like race science, because ideology is just a tool in service of material forces and the class interests of the colonizer. What kind of smoothbrain idealist do you have to be to think that Christianity itself is the reason for colonialism, or that Caleb's own religion somehow means he hates natives?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:18:55 No. 646703
>>646696 Maybe but look at how 95% of the left pounces on you if you dare criticize land back or advocate for a socialist America as opposed for calling for the dismantling of America.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:25:00 No. 646705
>>646702 To be fair, Maupin has a history of Christian chauvinism and believes anything critical of Xtianity is somehow anti-socialist.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:25:28 No. 646706
>>646682 sorry i guess i was the retard. imageboards make me too aggressive
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:27:02 No. 646709
>>646705 I find that hard to believe considering he's shilled the Nation of Islam before and praises the Houthis constantly.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:31:39 No. 646710
>>646703 So most communists, socialists, and anarchists? opposing your position supposed to constitute an argument?
Do you center everything around what will look cool to your faggot friends on /pol/?
How do you say this shit and still not have even the modicum of self-awareness to see you’re likely just promoting a reactionary chauvinist position to begin with?
Wanna know the difference between many of those people and you, armchair faggot? Those people have American police cracking up their skulls with batons because they’re out in the field while you’re sitting in your home feeling self-satisfied having done nothing while wagging your finger at the people actually in the fight.
Fuck this is why all those memes about “white leftists” existed in the first place, you people sit on your high horse of inaction scolding people that actually fight the state and by extension the capitalist class.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:35:01 No. 646715
>>646706 Nah mate, what makes you aggressive is the thought of black and indigenous people who actually fought the state not licking the asshole of some pompous suburban faggot like yourself that feels proud about “Oh I am in muh intellectual tradition going back to the days of the First International 🤓” even though in practice that means you fucking read books and haven’t done anything of value in your entire fucking life.
Just the sheer air of smugness from you fags that haven’t ever sacrificed a damn fucking thing and do nothing is why so much of the left doesn’t have an ounce of respect for people like you, it’s not because “oh muh idpol radlibs”, it’s because you’re a fucking dead weight like a fat fucking grub that’s proud of being a fat fucking grub that lays down and does nothing
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:35:57 No. 646717
>>646709 Because they are "anti-imperialist."
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 15:42:02 No. 646722
>>646709 NOI's theology is much closer to Christianity than orthodox Islam.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 16:16:16 No. 646773
>>646757 Increasing birth rates means making women into "baby factories"? You realize you can have lots of kids and still have a career, do other shit, etc.? As he says in that clip, the USSR literally had awards for women who had lots of kids. It also had one of the highest rates of female participation in sciences, academics, etc.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 18:23:33 No. 646941
>>646757 This is one of his based takes. Not having kids is malthusian, and the idea is to fight back against the ruling class, not deprive you of having kids.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 21:22:09 No. 647225
>>646757 It’s not about turning women into incubators. It’s more about encouraging procreation as a part of post-revolutionary optimism. That should be a beautiful thing.
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 21:31:17 No. 647238
>>644346 When will mods ban this unfunny larping /siberia/ retard
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 21:35:13 No. 647244
>>647238 When will you click the minus sign and stop hurting yourself by caring about a dumb thread?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 22:53:54 No. 647358
>>645903 >LA is majority Latino and the vast majority of Latinos have indigenous ancestry They're nit indigenous to the LA area though. What, do you think they're going to launch a Latino revolution to make LA an independent city-state, then immediately cede all power to the Tongva?
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 22:56:32 No. 647362
>>646757 Yes, he is fucking right, we are BELOW REPLACEMENT RATES niffo.
10 kids is a bit overkill though
Anonymous 2021-12-15 (Wed) 23:56:55 No. 647426
>>647362 To be fair, children in socialism would almost certainly be raised collectively so mothers wouldn't be burdened with having to provide for 10+ kids.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 06:50:16 No. 647868
>>646694 Maupin is using a selective sample fallacy.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 15:16:59 No. 648200
>>646757 Maybe the solution here is for men to shut the fuck up about human reproduction since they're not the ones who have to go through pregnancy and childbirth?
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 16:23:19 No. 648249
I wanted to say something about the current Land Back movement as well as the church burnings which occurred in Canada last summer.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 18:50:51 No. 648427
>>648249 >blah blah blah The indigenous still have a right to resist.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 19:19:54 No. 648467
>>648360 This. Mfs are talking about this as if Natives don't regularly make it explicitly clear exactly what they want.
>Respect treaties >Basic infrastructure >Don't he racist Simple as.
>>648427 That's beside the point of which tactics are effective or not. The nature of the struggle between indigenous people and settler leafs/burgers is fundamentally different from those of the Algerians, Vietnamese, or even black South Africans and Palestinians. This requires different tactics and goals.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 23:12:20 No. 648777
>>648249 Also imagine the economic collapse that would if there was a nakba of white people.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 02:14:44 No. 648951
>>648427 Church burnings aren't going to do shit to help the indigenous. If anything, all they're going to do is make whitey more hostile. No one sees a burning Catholic church in the middle of the Canadian prairie and says: "golly gee wiz, the settler-colonial project of Canada was a mistake." They look at a burning church and say: "better bring my pistol with me to mass next time."
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 05:45:27 No. 649117
>>649115 Am I the only one who thinks he looks fat in the thumbnail?
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:07:17 No. 652018
>>652014 >AndeanComintern answering to Fidel Cashflow Damn I hate those fucking larpers
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 09:02:33 No. 652208
>>652014 This is Tel Aviv liberal logic; "I'm not the bad guy, it's just those uncouth people on the frontier! Why do I get grouped in with them?"
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 10:50:08 No. 652273
>>644330 >Give me ONE LOGICAL REASON why picrel isn't a form of Land Back. Because the "Black Belt" is not in any sense the ancestral homeland of black people and the majority of black people don't live there, even if African Americans form a majority/plurality ethnic group along many parts of that region.
The national homeland of African Americans is the entire United States not any one part of it. It's also somewhat disingenuous to compare advocating for a black ethnic oblast in the time of Segregation and Jim Crow to the advocacy of woke ethnostates now.
The only nations that are genuinely colonized and genuinely separate from the American nation are the indigenous tribes, and while I think we should support efforts to return important ancestral regions to these nations, you still have Gonzaloid types who argue for some bizarre attempt at restoring the pre-Colombian era except for black people for some reason.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 11:11:36 No. 652296
>>652014 If Israeli socialists were to propose a one state solution, with rights of return and equality for Palestinians, and a transformed national identity based around the shared history of Jews and Palestinians, would this be a bad thing? I mean, most people here favour a one state solution anyway, and obviously such a state would have to develop a concept of itself compatible with its dual-national character. This would be the model of patriotic socialism as applied to Israel.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 19:56:06 No. 652885
>>644330 It has nothing to do with what you call "land back", since that land was never taken from them to begin with, and the blacks are actually the majority on those lands, unlike Amerindians in America.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 20:07:29 No. 652900
>>652885 The lands the indigenous want back are the lands where they are the majority, as well as all federal lands since all that land is being governed unjustly.
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 00:45:11 No. 653319
why should i as a socialist care about giving "the indigenous people" autonomy? their leadership is as incompetent, corrupt and full of capitalists as everyone else within this country's political system we should not be talking about "respecting treaties" those treaties, the revised treaties and the "autonomy" native land is granted has always benefited native upper class types while everyone else is left to fight for scraps, we should talking about trying to find a way to bring these native tribes into socialism by any means possible we should be actively calling for the heads of people that run reservations in mansions while others aren't even allowed to have drinking water
Anonymous 2021-12-21 (Tue) 09:40:55 No. 655141
>>653319 >why should i as a socialist care about giving "the indigenous people" autonomy? It's consistent with Marxism.
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 19:03:30 No. 656911
>>645791 Honestly these needs to be discussed more often as an alternative whenever the Landback memers start grifting
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 22:38:29 No. 657075
>>645791 >privatising all public land into the hands of native americans, effectively putting it outside of control of the government and laws of the USA, while still allowing the capitalists to operate and develop the land. When has this ever been the case?
Anonymous 2021-12-23 (Thu) 08:40:19 No. 657576
>>649115 Maupin is offensive to all five senses.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:26:17 No. 662099
If the Black Belt shit is land back, then Appalachian separatism is also land back.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:35:23 No. 662117
>>646757 You don’t need women to do that. Whatabout the Trangoids?
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:29:57 No. 662238
>>662099 Appalachians are settlers. Give their lands back to the Cherokee.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:35:30 No. 662239
Personally I’d love to create some small ethnostates. Northwest for whites but we would need ocean access and that’s where all the transhumanists and self hating whites live.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:41:26 No. 662244
>>645791 The US is a corporate capitalist state. The land already belongs to corporations in league with the government, because THEY ARE the government. Whether the land belongs to a native sovereign confederacy or the US, it would still encroach on the land whenever it finds the opportunity. The difference with land back is if the land becomes the sovereign property of this native confederacy, when the corporations and the US state come knocking it'll be "officially" an act of invasion which would be hilarious how the government would try and justify that. And I imagine you being a capitalist and petty bourgeois PMC, you have a stake in preserving the capitalist US state and even for them invading sovereign lands if they ever became so. Land back wouldn't hurt you or make your life better, but what it WOULD do is create amazing situations where the US government bis clearly trying to invade foreign lands and God forbid some white folk who live in sovereign Indian lands don't like the US state or corporations encroaching on their land and so they grab their rifles and start a regional war.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:43:55 No. 662246
>>662239 Ethnostates are sub-brain. What you need are bi-ethnostates.
Black men and white women.
White men and asian women.
Asian men and black women.
Arabs are honorary asian. South american are honorary whites.
Sounds unsustainably at first glance but with a small amount of co-operative government planning this utopia is easily achievable.
You literally can't prove me wrong.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:44:41 No. 662247
>>662099 Based Ray O. Light CHAD
🍀 Shay 🍀 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:50:35 No. 662251
>>662246 W-why put black men and white women together in an e-ethnostate…?
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:54:19 No. 662255
>>644798 >>645791 The biggest single group of landowners in the US is WHITE HOMEOWNERS, not corporations, not the federal government. These aren't issues where you can scapegoat corporations or the government. The blame rests mostly on the settlers themselves. Homeownership for whites needs to be heavily scrutinized for this reason.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 01:22:56 No. 662278
>>662255 The rate of home ownership in socialist countries is much, much higher than it is in most of the capitalist West.
Saying "abolish homeownership" is an insult to the Chinese, Vietnamese, Cuban, Nicaraguan, etc. socialists who fought (and sometimes died) to have a government that would provide housing to all. Nicaragua and Cuba both have large numbers of "settlers" (white people) yet they receive all the benefits of socialism that the colonized peoples do, including owning a home.
Fuck off with your primitivist nonsense.
Anonymous 2022-01-11 (Tue) 06:30:37 No. 686428
>>656687 How, sorry for the necrobump but i'm digging into this just now
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