Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:26:40 No. 649983
Read the history of AES and you’ll figure it out
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:29:56 No. 649986
>>649975 It can't.
This is why I am a accelerationist. It is only after the capitalist system's failures cannot be covered up, and it collapses, can socialist societies rise.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:31:07 No. 649987
Lol nations aren’t real and you can just force people to mine and manufacture shit instead of relying on outsourcing ahahahahah
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:41:00 No. 649999
Red terror in 4k
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:41:37 No. 650002
>>649975 you either become china or you shut your country off from the rest of the world and become cuba
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:44:34 No. 650005
>Capital flight >Brain drain >Economic sanctions and embargoes >Shunning from the international community >imperialist invasions and other glowops
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 21:51:18 No. 650019
Maybe start by listing nations that you think accomplished this.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 22:58:28 No. 650102
lmao just build a wall
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 23:03:01 No. 650108
You deal with capital flight by nationalization of the industry.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 23:42:13 No. 650136
>>649975 Honestly, the imperialist invasion bit is enough of a problem in itself. The empire will kill a revolution in its crib if they're at all able to invade. The only reason this didn't happen in Russia and China was war exhaustion. While America is still able to deploy its troops, revolution in any significant country is impossible. It's extremely debatable hether modern Western Europe can launch a full-scale invasion without the US.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 23:54:39 No. 650147
>>650142 >Trotsky, Stalin, Makhno one of these three is not like the other, one of these three does not belong
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 00:46:51 No. 650189
>>Capital flight >>Brain drain >>Economic sanctions and embargoes >>Shunning from the international community >>imperialist invasions and other glow-ops
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 01:25:06 No. 650209
>>650142 These incursions were minor, especially if compared with the massive scale of the WW1 operations of a feww years prior.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 01:41:38 No. 650227
>>650147 all three of them were communists who fought against the white movement in the Russian Civil War, so all of them are relevant.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 01:49:15 No. 650237
>>649975 >Capital flight Nationalize industry through the might of the army, let capitalist go but make them have to put up a fight to leave with any capital that physically exists within the nation.
>Brain drain Strong borders with exit visas.
>Economic sanctions and embargoes Central planning with an emphases of creating your own economic bloc that doesn't need the west to exist. Strong navy to defend your international supply lines with tactical nukes so the US Navy will think twice about stopping your shipping convoys (avoid having a person like Khrushchev in power that will blink when playing nuclear chicken with the US).
>Shunning from the international community Make your own international community
>imperialist invasions and other glow-ops Stop worrying and embrace the doctrine of using nukes as a deterrent.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 01:57:35 No. 650242
>>650239 The West Germans were riding on the coat tails of the East German educational system before the wall, where the GDR paid for training skilled workers then west Germany threw them a hundred marks to defect that was far cheaper then fully funding education.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 01:59:05 No. 650244
>>650242 >The West Germans were riding on the coat tails of the East German educational system before the wall, where the GDR paid for training skilled workers then west Germany threw them a hundred marks to defect that was far cheaper then fully funding education. Why couldn't The East Germans teach any national pride or belief in the cause?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:06:49 No. 650250
>>650244 Production cycles, even the first Soviet 5 year plan under Stalin didn't see any obvious benefit to the commoner till its last year. So that is 5 years MLs have to tell its citizens to just be patient as means of production is built up. Meanwhile capitalists abstract industry from living standards so they pained all the American goods being imported under the Marshal Plan as just capitalism succeeding rather then American capitalists subsidizing living standards in west Germany.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:35:05 No. 650273
>>649975 >Capital flight Cope
>Brain drain Cope + reconcile the material causes for why intellectuals would leave
>Economic sanctions and embargoes Become self reliant + trade with other embargoed countries + cope
>Shunning from the international community You mean just the U.S and Israel? Either way, just cope
>imperialist invasions and other glow-ops BTFO imperialist powers, embarrass them. basically cope. revolution is a process that takes a long time and capitalism's downfall is inevitable due to falling rate of profit
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:41:16 No. 650283
>>650244 >an idealist solution to a material problem and you call yourself a Marxist?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:42:34 No. 650284
>>650283 So what was the material problem and why couldn't they solve it? How come we are materially motivate marxism but the people who lived under actually existing marxism couldn't be motivated to a lifelong dedication?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:52:24 No. 650290
>>650284 The USA was the only major power that came out of WWII stronger then when it went in. The USSR struggled to quickly rebuilt after the war as suddenly Mao also need help under the Sino-Soviet friendship pact. Then you had the idiot Khrushchev that during the Kitchen debate allowed Nixon frame the context of the Cold War as one between mass consumption.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 02:59:00 No. 650294
>>650005 >what matters is that we have the means to produce wealth, not wealth itself so wealth is still what matters in the end
>It took the US 11 years to recognize and establish relations with the USSR and 30 years to do so with the PRC, yet they still did it eventually because they became state-capitalist in collaboration with american capital
>This one is the most important, and it will depend on a lot of different factors. How important you're to imperialists, how strong your military is, if your military is loyal to the socialists in the first place, your geography, the strength and competence of your state security agencies, etc, etc. It's too much shit to consider that would probably deserve its own thread to discuss. no it isn't anything to consider at all, that's why you left it out while disingenuously implying it's anything fruitful to talk about
>>650189 >>650237 >>650273 not even gonna bother with these
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:00:51 No. 650295
>>650290 >The USA was the only major power that came out of WWII stronger then when it went in. The USSR struggled to quickly rebuilt after the war as suddenly Mao also need help under the Sino-Soviet friendship pact. Then you had the idiot Khrushchev that during the Kitchen debate allowed Nixon frame the context of the Cold War as one between mass consumption. Ok, but that's still many decades between the 1940s and 1990s. How could Marxism fail to take hold in all those years in the minds of the population even if it failed in practice?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:06:57 No. 650299
>>650295 The Comecon in 1982 was still looking good given the US had two major crashes during the 1970s. This is why Honecker went with the Stasi annalists of the global situation in that of all the Comecon had to do turtle and wait for Reagan and Thatcher to crash global capitalism past the point of no return. Yet the USSR went with Gorbachev that actually bought into neoliberal propaganda.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:11:28 No. 650303
>>650299 this is some weapons-grade stalinist cope
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:17:12 No. 650307
>>650250 >>So that is 5 years MLs have to tell its citizens to just be patient as means of production is built up. >material advancement only happened via five year plans What about….
>universal education >literacy corps >public housing Many West Germans had actually emigrated to East Germany. Life was "better" for some people in East Germany instead of West, but then there is this issue of brain drain that goes the opposite way. What explains that? Many intellectuals stayed, but the ones who left were seeking material self agrandisement. It is for the same reason some people trained as doctors become taxi drivers. While the government takes care of its people in both systems, and nobody actually goes hungry or without healthcare, the intellectual "ladder climbers" want the fancy things that money can buy, that you are not simply able to get much of with a standard government salary, western-looking homes. THey are, in a way, still subverted by bourgeois culture, but a lot of it is the result of problems relating to embargoes and sanctions. In Cuba, people who work as self employed persons in the legal tourism industry have much more money to spend, and there was a disparity a few years ago when this began between the home of the average Cuban and those of the tourism industry become much more stark; looking much less shabby, less decrepit, etc. More recently (but before the pandemic) there gap was a bit less significant because of some of the restructuring of the economy. The Cuban government transformed some of the state owned farms into worker owned cooperatives as an adaptation.
>>650283 >>650244 I don't think this is a very fair way of looking at it. People do become disillusioned with the place where they live sometimes but it is usually for material reasons. Intellectuals who leave may have been of a higher class position, maybe their family used to be landlords, or they are upset someone took away their grandfather's slaves, but regardless still had that kernel of bourgeois morality. Many intellectuals are happy to serve the Cuban revolution, and I am sure many were happy to serve the GDDR.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:22:13 No. 650313
>>650307 >I don't think this is a very fair way of looking at it. People do become disillusioned with the place where they live sometimes but it is usually for material reasons. Intellectuals who leave may have been of a higher class position, maybe their family used to be landlords, or they are upset someone took away their grandfather's slaves, but regardless still had that kernel of bourgeois morality. Many intellectuals are happy to serve the Cuban revolution, and I am sure many were happy to serve the GDDR. I'm saying forget being dissolusioned with your current government. All of us living in capitalist countries are disillusioned with our governments I imagine. I'm saying why did they fail to raise people who believe in Marxism/Communism as a lifetime goal?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:29:25 No. 650318
>>650310 it doesn’t matter. the problem goes all the way back to war communism and the debate in the 20s as to what to do with it wrt the soviet economy. militaries are not good for economies. stalin and brezhnev were able to suppress these reformist debates for a while and enforce a strict trade bloc to delay collapse, but the final push came in the late 80s when higher-up soviet ministers started to wonder “what the fuck have we even been doing in afghanistan nearly the past decade” and kicked in perestroika and glasnost
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:34:37 No. 650323
>>650313 >I'm saying why did they fail to raise people who believe in Marxism/Communism as a lifetime goal? Did they fail? There are a lot of Russians who miss the Soviet Union, in-fact over 70% of them seem to think that it was better. Maybe that has less to do with Marxism and more to do with
>muh superpower but that can't be the only part of it.Though the Soviet Union has fallen, Marxism is hardly irrelevant. It has, if anything, become more relevant, and there are Marxists engaging in revolution right now. The Soviet Union failed, but they're no more the focal point of Marxism than post-Dengoid China.
I don't think the phenomenon of intellectuals leaving the Soviet Union or the GDDR was the result of there not being a concentrated effort to make people appreciate the revolution.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 03:35:12 No. 650325
>>650318 It does matter because not all states followed Gorbachev (GDR, DPRK, Cuba and even the PRC didn't buy into perestroika and glasnost). If like the PRC the USSR just rolled tanks to crush protesters and purge the party with the secret police then it would have had enough time for the USA to stock market to meltdown since when it couldn't breakup Yugoslavia, invade Iraq and get Soviet Bloc firms cheap. This was the Stasi plan, just wait for the USA to collapse under its own stupidly and win the cold war by default.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 04:02:46 No. 650344
>>649975 Authoritarian Market Socialism like in chyna
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 04:07:59 No. 650351
>>650325 >If like the PRC the USSR just rolled tanks to crush protesters and purge the party with the secret police yeah, literally no one would have wanted to do that
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 04:08:58 No. 650353
>>650351 They did that in Hungary tho
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 04:09:11 No. 650354
>>650351 Brezhnev did and would have done it again.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 04:49:40 No. 650403
>>650323 >Did they fail? There are a lot of Russians who miss the Soviet Union, in-fact over 70% of them seem to think that it was better. Maybe that has less to do with Marxism and more to do with Anyone have a video of people who lived there reminiscing? I've heard this line before yet the propaganda is lacking.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 06:04:54 No. 650551
>>650365 We don't need complete victory. A few late stage and crippled capitalist nations aren't going to be a serious bulwark against revolutions globally. Socialism can and will provide more efficient and more productive alternative than this neofeudal finance capitalist hellhole can, then we only need a critical mass of countries to switch their system and institutions and gravity will take care of the rest. China isalready showing the right path for the world. Right now the speed of this development mostly hinges on the speed of revolution or collapse of burgerstan. If US goes then there are no serious alternatives for new global enforcer of financial capital and then it's only a matter of time. EU is divided against itself, the brits are a joke, In asia there are no credible alternatives beside China.
Why it even has taken this long, was because burgers came through WWII unharmed and everybody else was fucked. They leveraged their position to become the dominant millitary, economical, technological and cultural power and then they used that control to whack any revolution that came up during the cold war. If burgers were devastated in the WW2 as western Europe did, we would have had a communist continental Europe by the 1960s. Now when US collapses on it's own shit it's either mostly likely the final deathblow to liberalism. The question is how much of humanity, deveopment and civilization will the anglo hegemony take with them in the coming turmoil.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 07:10:44 No. 650680
>>650294 >>650294 >The USSR was State-Capitalist in the 30s >China was ‘State capitalist’ under Mao. LEFTCOM MOMENT
LEFTCOM MOMENT
LEFTCOM MOMENT
LEFTCOM MOMENT
LEFTCOM MOMENT
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 07:21:48 No. 650696
>>650680 china under mao was openly state-capitalist, same with 30s USSR
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 07:25:45 No. 650705
>>650696 so what do you consider a proper socialist state
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 07:28:20 No. 650710
>>650705 idk, it’s a strategical, contingent question. it’s definitely not the AES states at any point though
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 07:29:35 No. 650711
>>650710 my dude dont take this the wrong way but that is very very leftcom, like very leftcom
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 23:54:51 No. 651712
>>649975 >Capital Flight Expropriation of private property and instituting a planned economy
>Brain drain Investing money in large infrastructure projects which creates jobs for engineers and improves HDI, building hospitals, devoting a large amount of public funds towards scientific research
>Shinning from the international community Somewhat unavoidable, the only thing that you can really do is try to find trading partners in emerging countries + China, since they'll trade with anyone. Best case scenario you'll just have to deal with burgers, and the EU won't mind you as much, but that's still somewhat outside of your control and depends on what country exactly you're talking about.
>Imperialist invasions etc. etc. Purge reactionary army officials (most important, especially in Latin America), dedicate funds to defense-oriented military build-up, if possible (not today, but maybe in future geopolitical landscape) ally yourself to a country sympathetic to yours that has a larger military.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 01:40:11 No. 651839
>Brain drain
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:38:52 No. 652038
>>650710 >AES What did he mean by this…
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:42:38 No. 652042
>>649975 >Capital flight The goal of communists is to eradicate capital so this is a non issue
>Brain drain >Economic sanctions and embargoes >Shunning from the international community >imperialist invasions and other glow-ops The revolution must be international so these things don't happen or else any successful revolution will eventually degrade like the USSR
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:43:23 No. 652044
>>652038 Any nation that is opposed by the US or has a red flag
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:47:42 No. 652049
>>652047
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 06:09:48 No. 652070
>>652042 >The revolution must be international lol RIP socialism then
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 08:36:28 No. 652180
>>652070 The world revolution has always been a vital part of the proletarian struggle and without it the any dotp will be unable to sustain itself
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 08:46:09 No. 652189
>>652070 how is an international revolution less practical than a national one, especially in the 21st century
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 08:52:01 No. 652198
>>650325 based stasi yet again
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 11:20:15 No. 652308
>>649981 Why didn't he just create more gulags?
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 11:47:29 No. 652328
>>652189 a national revolution is impractical anyway, see socialism in one country
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 12:06:01 No. 652337
>>650299 What is the source for this "Stasi plan"/analysis? I believe you since I think I saw a video before I just don't remember where.
>>649975 It's called Market Socialism/Dengism/whatever buzzword you want to call it etc.
Seems to be working pretty well in countering all problems. All remaining socialist states have embarked on this path.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 12:09:21 No. 652339
>>652328 >"Socialism in one country" turned to "socialism in eastern europe + 1 country" turned to "socialism in china + eastern europe + 1 country" turned to etc. etc. trotskyist cope over Stalin is hilarious seeing as 1/3 of the Earth's landmass went socialist proving Stalin right in biding time and focusing on Russia first. Meanwhile trot retards would have started WW2 early and immolated the entire socialist sphere of influence 60 years before it actually fell.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 13:55:27 No. 652459
>>652189 How many international revolutions have there been in History?
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 13:56:39 No. 652462
>>652180 >without it the any dotp will be unable to sustain itself Yeah bros I'm thinking it's over for communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 14:11:27 No. 652477
>>652459 europe, in 1917-1920
catalonia
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 14:11:56 No. 652478
>>652477 oh, forgot about 1848
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 15:04:07 No. 652517
>>652459 The international revolutionary wave unleashed by bolshevism, a rare time when workers internationalism, solidarity, proletarian militancy, communist parties and communist thought were in cohesion and alignment with one another.
>>652462 not with that attitude
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 15:15:09 No. 652532
>>649986 That's a very convoluted way of saying that you are a snowflake anti-communist.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 15:44:58 No. 652582
>>652459 To give one example the revolution of capitalist industrial production accomplished the most pervasive and complete transformation of social relations in history.
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 13:13:14 No. 653909
>>652477 lmao you're funny. but not very bright
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 13:15:00 No. 653910
>>652517 youre completely delusional, read history books again
Anonymous 2021-12-21 (Tue) 13:10:21 No. 655255
Worldwide international revolution is a complete pipe dream. Might as well become a Posadist and hope the ayys bring us communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 03:43:23 No. 656355
>>650680 yes anon, a state taking the value of your surplus labour for itself is the same as the capitalist-worker relation.
<B-BUT THEY REINVEST IT INTO THE ECONOMY!1 yeah so do capitalists with muh jawbs
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 07:08:24 No. 656461
>>656355 DPRK confirmed to be the only socialist state according to this line of logic
>flagfag Shall NOT read further replies.
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 12:08:38 No. 656551
>>652532 But I am a social democrat
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 22:07:04 No. 657059
Socialist society will be so good that everybody will want to live there. The real question is what do you do about the massive amounts of illegal immigrants coming into your country?
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 22:58:29 No. 657088
>>649975 >Capital flight Capital controls
>Brain drain Students in higher education get payed a wage like it's their job to produce an educated mind, but it also comes with obligations. Maybe getting payed as student might even reverse the direction of brain drain, at least for the people that are in it for the knowledge rather than a career. Many intelligent people from poor backgrounds in capitalist countries might come because they can't afford education, where they are from.
>Economic sanctions and embargoes that's one way saying waging war against civilians, maybe that can be helped by having special operations targeted at specifically the faction of capital that are lobbying for this.
>Shunning from the international community Doesn't matter if you have good enough diplomacy
>imperialist invasions nuclear deterrent + armed and trained population
>and other glow-ops most spy operations that fail, do so because they got tricked by honey-pot counter espionage. So lots of that.
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 23:10:33 No. 657094
>>657059 >The real question is what do you do about the massive amounts of illegal immigrants coming into your country? It's simple: you spread propaganda in foreign media that your country is a "totalitarian shithole".
Anonymous 2021-12-22 (Wed) 23:11:06 No. 657095
By being a big enough economic block. There's no real other solution. At least half of Europe or bust.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 14:19:20 No. 679759
>>650189 >90% of cunts on earth have nothing against china. Now you're just lying for the sake of it
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 15:06:09 No. 679810
>>650294 >so wealth is still what matters in the end Wealth alone has limited value if it has no means of reproducing itself. Capital flight might be an issue, but not one of apocalyptic magnitude.
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 06:00:10 No. 681267
>>649975 world revolution.
you're not a "socialism in one country" cuck, right??
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 15:36:37 No. 681754
>>651712 >try to find trading partners in emerging countries + China Reminder that China and Venezuela repeatedly voted for sanctions against the DPRK.
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 15:59:13 No. 681782
>>649999 anybody got that schizo leftypol-letter, that was sent to the cuban embassy?
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 16:01:04 No. 681785
>>650209 >The Civil War was nonimportant what did he mean by this? millions of people perished
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 21:15:31 No. 682219
>>652477 >Continental Europe and Ottoman Empire (Sort of) >GUYSSS INTERNATIONAL IS WHEN VOLUNTEER BRIGADES FROM OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AND THE US >>652478 Western/Central Europe, not even completely
Anything else buddy? So far that's not even an entire continent
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