Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 20:52:49 No. 661982
>>661970 Lots of broken promises. Ossis were told that just after five to ten years of West German "social market economy" they would have the lifestyle of an upper-middle class Wessi who goes on vacation in Rimini and Barcelona twice a year and drives a sports car. Chancellor Kohl promised them "blossoming landscapes".
In reality, they got quite literally colonized. A trust was formed, the
Treuhand (which means quite literally just "The Trust", I know it sounds dystopian) that was handed over the entire economy of the GDR, every state enterprise, every collective farm. Since the economy of the GDR was quite sizeable (one of the top 15 economies worldwide at 1990), overnight the biggest corporation in the world of all times was formed. Only that it was a corporation in name only, it didn't not operate to generate value for their shareholders, its only aim was to liquidate. Entire branches of industrie were sold for scrapy for as much as 1 Mark (yes I am serious) to West German companies and cronies of the CDU government. Then Western companies moved in - to this day, none of the top 50 companies of Germany is headquarted in East Germany. Even the ones that used to be in East Germany before 1949, like Dresdner Bank or Siemens, didn't move back. Then the entire intelligentsia was replaced, teachers and professors had their professorship revoked and were replaced by Western conservatives who told their students that everything they have learned so far was all a lie. Then, since they privaitzed the trains in the 90s, 80% of all decomissioned railways were in East Germany. Without any job opportunities, overwhelmed by West German bureaucracy, young people from rural communities left for Western cities, engineers and doctors emigrated completely to Canada, USA or Australia because wages for them were better there and they weren't treated like trash. They left behind overaged, dying communities without public transport connection. In these villages, that's were fascist groups quickly took hold.
In the first state election after the reunification, the PDS, successor of the SED, surged in drastic way, of course.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 20:54:53 No. 661986
>>661970 nostalgia is meaningless, all that matters is whether you're trying to build a better world here and now
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 20:57:12 No. 661988
>>661982 But if things were really this bad, why has it been so hard to form a serious socialist political movement from all this discontent? Die Linke is relatively strong in the East sure, but even they are a shadow of the KPD in its heyday.
>>661986 My point is that one would expect that the socialist nostalgia in Eastern Europe would provide fertile ground for a revival of the Communist movement.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 20:59:03 No. 661991
>>661988 because there is no communist movement
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:00:48 No. 661993
>>661986 For German communists it isn't, because the question of how much focus we put on defending the legacy of the DDRhinges upon that. While you might think some West German might have an issue with that, this defense can score sympathy from Ossis.
>>661988 >Die Linke is relatively strong in the East sure, but even they are a shadow of the KPD in its heyday. They are in government in Thuringa. And they are not a Communist Party, come on. A lot of them after their surge acted like one of the mainstream parties, liquidated any revolutionary momentum and entered into borugeois discourse, talking about "responsibility", "concessions", etc. Later came the IdPol obsession (gender shit etc.) that alienated a lot of Ossis.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:03:13 No. 661997
>>661988 >>661993 a bunch of petty bourgeois looking back fondly on better days of social support from the state is nowhere near momentum for a communist movement. fuck you
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:06:36 No. 661999
>>661993 >And they are not a Communist Party, come on Of course, I just mentioned them as they seem to be one of the few examples of socialist nostalgia translating into political gains for a left leaning party. My main question is simply why no real communist movement has been able to re-emerge under what appear to be favourable conditions.
>>661997 >a bunch of petty bourgeois I don't think you know what that term means Anon.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:06:39 No. 662000
>>661997 Fuck off, there are people who got their entire life achievements stolen from them and can't even live off their pensions and need alimonies from the state. They have worked their entire life only to be told that their pension is now coming from a Western pension font. I've never even seen a Eastern petty bourgeois, they are all Wessis.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:13:18 No. 662006
>>661999 >My main question is simply why no real communist movement has been able to re-emerge under what appear to be favourable conditions. Well first off, communism is outlawed in Germany. Communist organizations are only allowed because they are too small to be relevant, if the German Communist Party would through some miracle scratch at 4%, they would be banned of course. You are also not allowed to work as a communist in education, for the justice system, for universities, for city administrations, and so on. Unions also expell communists.
Besides those organzational difficulties, the structues of the SED have been crushed, their wealth seized, their youth league expropriated (the FDJ still exists but they are like 200 members or something today). When the West German Communist Party lost the support of the SED and CPSU, it bled out from 20k members to 5k members when everybody joined the PDS because of the Zeitgeist of the 90s - end of history, Francis Fukuyama, and so on. Without resources it was hard for the DKP to expand into the East where the PDS/DieLinke completely dominated left-wing structures there. To this day, the DKP barely has a presence in the East except in cities like Berlin or Leipzig (where they have to push back against Antigerman brainrot).
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:14:02 No. 662008
>>662004 If you really think people nostalgic for socialism are petty bourgeois, then you are beyond retarded.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:17:14 No. 662009
>>662008 you're not serious about communism and you never will be
you live in a fever dream
i would kick in your stupid fucking teeth if i could
(rules 11 and 12) Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:18:02 No. 662012
>>662006 Ngl
It sounds like krauts are far beyond hope
Honestly you should just embrace Posadism
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:21:17 No. 662018
>>662016
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:22:35 No. 662021
>>662016
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:26:20 No. 662025
>>662014 How much of an influence does antideutche have over the German "left"? I get the sense that they are the kraut equivalent of North America's Sakaists.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:26:58 No. 662028
>>661982 >Then the entire intelligentsia was replaced, teachers and professors had their professorship revoked and were replaced by Western conservatives who told their students that everything they have learned so far was all a lie. daily reminder that communists should do the same
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:27:49 No. 662030
>>662017 You’re delusional if you saw an ounce of hope in Kraut anon’s post, why should I give a fuck that some people have nostalgia for the DDR, Krautland overall sounds like it can only be saved via nukes or red invasion from outside like last time
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:30:13 No. 662034
>>662014 Gotta love western anarchists. They are totally not useful idiots.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:31:13 No. 662038
>>662030 DDR poster is one of the best, so stfu and actually learn from him.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:34:06 No. 662040
>>662038 >One of the best The best in a pack of monkeys is still a monkey
And I did listen to that guy, didn’t drown in his copium, but I read everything he said
The obvious conclusion is that Krautland, the land that has never had a revolution, is beyond hope
It’s no coincidence that Kraut communism came from an external source
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:41:40 No. 662048
>>662025 They are basically a loud minority. But their rhetoric and all that saps into leftist discouse even if they are not antideutsch.
They even walk into small, picturesque villages, chant that is a shithole that should be nuked and tell old people that they should die in an Israeli bombing raid (second pic). Then they end up writing for conservative newspapers, I kid you not.
The problem is that Antideutsche have institutional support, they are token leftists for the state and the media, they sit in talk shows and govern "leftist" think tanks like the Amadeu Antonio Foundation. It's pretty ironic that a tendency that supposedly is the most radically opposed to German statehood ends up directly or indirectly be the most supportive of the state.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:45:13 No. 662051
>>662048 not at all ironic
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:49:47 No. 662055
>>662048 >The problem is that Antideutsche have institutional support, they are token leftists for the state and the media, they sit in talk shows and govern "leftist" think tanks like the Amadeu Antonio Foundation. proofs?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 21:51:47 No. 662058
>>662030 Still fighting against the “stalinists” that you were yourself? Has it occurred to you that people respect the soviet union for reasons outside of their personal psychoses? Or that you only come back because you know we’re right and are in denial?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:00:37 No. 662063
>>662055 Jutta von Ditfurt, a German noblelady is one of the leading Antideutsche voices and one of the most toxic ones, her party is called "Ökolinx" and she is pretty much famous for being edgy in talkshows (first picture).
Achse des Guten, Ruhrbarone, jungle world and also the taz, the biggest leftist magazine in this country, are controlled by Antideutsche, who in the first two try to create a synthesis with neocons. Hengameh Yaghoobifarah, that jellyfish you see on the second picture, is one of their more profilic authors.
The Amadeu Antonio Foundation is antideutsch, no doubt about it. They for example lobbied to have a Palestine workshop operated by leftist Jewish artists to be shut down. They accuse everyone to be an antisemite.
Another example is Volker Beck, Green Party politician and virulently antideutsch (third picture). He is a former drug addict and a pedophile, advocating for "free love" between adults and children in the 70s and 80s.
Those are just few examples of Antideutsche being bequeath with institutional influence and power.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:12:59 No. 662081
>>662063 oh ok so nothing except for a bunch of random culture war opponents that you're obsessed with. got it
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:20:36 No. 662090
>>662058 What does Krautistan being beyond hope have to do with the USSR now?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:25:10 No. 662097
>>662081 I just named you a bunch of government-affiliated outlets and organizations that are antideutsch even though their "movement" only makes up a small portion of the left. They are radiating both into the leftist and the bourgeois sphere. I could name you others like Stefan Grigat, who holds multiple professorships and campaigns for a nuclear strike on Iran. Klaus Lederer, who is part of the governing coalition of Berlin, who refused to help the Association of Victims of the Nazi Regime, because their chairwoman, Holocaust survivor and Jew, is an anti-Zionist. Do you want me to go on?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:26:48 No. 662100
>>662097 Franziska Drohsel former head of the SPD's youth organization another famous example.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:28:23 No. 662104
>>662100 Yep, the entire chairmanship of the youth organization of DieLinke (Linksjugend [solid]) is also antideutsch, except for one that was recently voted into office. And we all know those type of people will eventually rise through the ranks in the party proper.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:35:51 No. 662120
>>662097 >>662104 so i see antideutsch is like a kind of boogeyman for conservatives in germany akin to antifa and BLM in the US
>The term does not generally refer to any one specific radical left tendency, but rather a wide variety of distinct currents, ranging from the so-called "hardcore" anti-Germans such as the quarterly journal Bahamas to "softcore" anti-Germans such as the radical left journal Phase 2. Some anti-German ideas have also exerted an influence on the broader radical leftist milieu, such as the monthly magazine konkret and the weekly newspaper Jungle World. Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:38:28 No. 662124
>>662120 >so i see antideutsch is like a kind of boogeyman for conservatives in germany akin to antifa and BLM in the US ???? Conservatives don't care about them at all or in fact love them for being pro-Zionist and pro-American.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:40:50 No. 662128
>>662120 >so i see antideutsch is like a kind of boogeyman for conservatives in germany akin to antifa and BLM in the US Fake bogeyman I would say. Many of them end up writing for Die Welt, part of the Springer media empire, which also publishes BILD, together they are the German equivalent of Fox News.
>antifa and BLM in the US Not at all.
If you want to know about them or how they think, here is their own presentation on themselves on their subreddit in English.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Antideutsche/comments/c1mpm0/a_short_introduction_into_antigerman_who_we_are/ They are one of the main enemies for communists on the left and to declare them just a conservative bogeyman is very unhelpful, in my own organizing experience I had to fight hard to push back against their bullshit and it's an uphill battle because the establishment loves them.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:42:43 No. 662129
>>662124 I remember Ulf Poschardt, chief editor of Die Welt regularly highlights Antideutsche on his Twitter and in his op-eds as the "only sane leftists" and shit like that.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:45:55 No. 662131
>>662063 >Hengameh Yaghoobifarah This sounds like a name George Lucas comes up with for his Star Wars characters.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:50:47 No. 662132
>>662128 what despicable virtue signaling scum
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 22:55:23 No. 662136
>>662128 Are you a DKP member?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 23:29:34 No. 662176
>>662161 Based. Is it full of former SED boomers? What's the outlook for your party like in your opinion?
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 23:49:41 No. 662196
>>662176 No, we identified as a specifically West German Communist Party, we weren't just an appendix of the SED (even though that is what they keep claiming, that we were just a front organization). There are few East German leaders who joined us, like Egon Krenz - although we did share pretty much the SED line except on the national question; during the Honecker era, the SED claimed that there were two German nations now, a capitalist one and a socialist one, but the party refused to follow that line and viewed it as diplomatic opportunism (not claiming to be representative of the whole German nation was one of the main conditions for West Germany to establish diplomatic contacts with East Germany).
Nonetheless, we do nominate higher-up officials of the SED as direct candidates during elections, last election in September we nominated the former General State Attorney of the DDR in Berlin as a candidate for parliament.
>What's the outlook for your party like in your opinion? The development of our youth organization SDAJ is promising, we have gained new members in the triple digits since the pandemic began. We are currently trying to developing the Marxist-Leninist center ideologically but its been difficult, discussions are progressing slowly. The stance on China will also be developed, lots of different opinions there. I think we might have a positive outlook by diversifying our demands and also tap into issues usually brought up by the right - for example, we are going to start a major campaign demanding to lower the taxes on the working class and petty bourgeiosie, and to reduce the increasing energy prices on fuel and heating - think this is the right direction, especially the CO2 tax is a major burden on the working class. There is a huge debate over what sense it makes to participate in the leftist milieu with Trotskyist sects and anarcho-somethings, the general tendency is that we should not have anything to do with them. There is also the debate on whether we should focus on the traditional organized working class in unions, that earns a decent wage, or the unemployed, lumpen, migrants and AfD-voting disillusioned. If we can establish a good line that brings people on board I am optimistic for our party outlook - people don't want war with Russia and China and we are the only leftist organization that problematizes this.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 23:51:24 No. 662197
As a pretty vengeful kike I'll say this:
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 23:59:22 No. 662206
>>662196 >There is also the debate on whether we should focus on the traditional organized working class in unions, that earns a decent wage, or the unemployed, lumpen, migrants and AfD-voting disillusioned. Why are these the only two options?
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 00:00:14 No. 662207
>>662196 To add to my previous statement.
Anon, beware the fucking petit bouj. (whether small business or pmc) and maintain constant vigilance towards it.
They were the base of nasdap and its collaborators outside Germany, they were the base of the may68 student garbage, the base of the schizo hippy shit, the base of silicuck valley, the base of reddit, etc.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 01:28:18 No. 662285
>>662063 >He is a former drug addict and a pedophile, advocating for "free love" between adults and children in the 70s and 80s. giga based except for "former"
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 02:36:12 No. 662329
>>662197 you are not saying anything wrong tho, west germany was just Nazi Germany but castrated by the US.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 04:33:06 No. 662451
>>662206 (not the guy you're asking) finding a line that won't turn away one of those groups is dreadfully difficult
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 04:34:46 No. 662454
>>661970 Give their kids guns and soviets and they will take it back
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 11:25:04 No. 662702
>>662196 >for example, we are going to start a major campaign demanding to lower the taxes on the working class and petty bourgeiosie, and to reduce the increasing energy prices on fuel and heating - think this is the right direction, especially the CO2 tax is a major burden on the working class I've always thought that direct engagement with the day to day struggles of the workers is the best path forwards for communists to gain support. Obviously we can't hope to become a vanguard if we can't earn people's support, and we can't do that unless they see us out there fighting for them in their daily lives. I'm an advocate of the Mass Line strategy in this area, we must learn from the masses before we can teach them, ie allow them to direct us (to issues of immediate importance) before we can direct them (to issues of world-historical significance). Apart from these campaigns you mentioned, what sort of work does your party normally do in this area?
>There is a huge debate over what sense it makes to participate in the leftist milieu with Trotskyist sects and anarcho-somethings, the general tendency is that we should not have anything to do with them. What's your opinion? Do you really think the ML-Trot split is relevant in this day and age? Imo it seems like a rivalry that is best left in the past.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 12:22:40 No. 662742
>>662021 >Plus, China made them an offer to help them out financially and with skilled workers. A dengist DDR would be actually quite interesting.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 12:31:17 No. 662746
>>662742 >two imperialist germanies instead of only one so this is the power of multipolarity
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 12:48:30 No. 662758
>>662081 >that you're obsessed with when all the mainstream left discourse is through that retarded idpol lense, yes, fighting it is crucial you moron
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 12:54:09 No. 662765
>>662702 >direct engagement with the day to day struggles of the workers is the best path forwards id add that the conditions are especially good for this. The energy prices are raising, the war rethoric against russia has kicked up, but no msm will make an explicit link and explain its mostly cause europe is usa lapdog against its own interests
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 14:00:11 No. 662797
You can't do much with just sentiment.
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 14:06:46 No. 662804
>>662040 >The best in a pack of monkeys is still a monkey Funny hearing that from anprim lol
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 14:25:33 No. 679770
>>662048 >The problem is that Antideutsche have institutional support, they are token leftists for the state and the media, they sit in talk shows and govern "leftist" think tanks like the Amadeu Antonio Foundation. Yeah those are 99% of communist/socialist/old-style SocDems/etc. movements, parties or clubs within the western world
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 21:18:53 No. 680388
>>662742 rhen look no further. Its an open secret (and since I am in the east I know the sons and greatsons of some very high ups) that the late DDR was run by the capitalist HO (trade organization) to launder foreign money. Starting the 70ie smost higher ups basically waited fo rthe DDR to collapsed and saved money on the side - then being shocked every year that it was still alive
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 21:20:03 No. 680392
>>680388 sry I cant type. My keyboard is on the verge of death. No evil intent
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 21:40:58 No. 680441
>>662014 >East German police actually protected them against an antifa block that wanted to beat those kids up. Source?
Anonymous 2022-01-10 (Mon) 08:55:08 No. 684903
>>661970 I want to say (and this goes for all East European communist countries) it's because the vanguard parties just became a bureaucratic class separate from the citizenry, and the citizenry had no participation or say in the running of things. So when the collapse came, they just stood by and watched, and don't actually know why those times were good or how to bring them back, because political participation and understanding of Marxist theory was only for that small class, who largely just became porkies or died or went to prison.
Of course, there are still communists, but not enough, and the damage has been done with the new order being cemented with privatization, education of the new generations demonizing the communist era, and in the cases of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union, the country itself is split into so many bickering states it's practically impossible to organize across borders.
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