Infiltration of the Church Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 02:42:15 No. 663587 [View All]
Why has there never been a concerted effort by communists, especially in America, to infiltrate Christian churches and use them to our advantage?
72 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:13:37 No. 666212
>>666208 Fuck off with your liberal bullshit. Indivusli encourages selfishness and disregarding the good of the whole for personal benefits, ie the ethos of fascism
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:15:31 No. 666218
>>666212 Individual proles should be allowed to live their lives to the fullest so long as they are contributing. A cult of the state is fascism you mong.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:18:35 No. 666226
>>666218 There is no “individual prole”, thinking like that is why individualism has you so deluded. There is the proletariat class, and there is what is best for the proletariat. When the state is socialist, what is good for the proletariat is good for the state and vice versa. To argue otherwise is to open the floodgates for liberalism and fascism
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:48:15 No. 666248
>>666205 Communism means the abolition of all religion. Dialectical materialism necessarily requires atheism as we know there is no god, and we reject any sort of extra-class morality or ethics. Moral relativism is also therfore combatted by laying down a moral code for all mankind that stems from the world as it is, not the fantasies of god and commandments.
Individualism and collectivism are not incompatible. Socialism doesn't deny individual interests but combines it with that of society. One for all and all for one, and the idea of from each according to his ability is one perfectly combative with individuals.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:51:09 No. 666252
Well I'd say that's thanks to the 1960's counterculture CIA shit permanently associating beliefs that lead to cohesive and functional societies with anti-Socialist sentiments.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:59:17 No. 666258
>>663596 >asks for a way to infiltrate the church >which is based on a 2k years old book >says is for braintlets quoting a 100 y.o. book If op, OP came here just to troll.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 03:34:23 No. 666407
>>666258 I never said I believe in the Bible, dumbass. In fact I was quite adamant that I don't.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 03:45:40 No. 666414
>>666204 Not to mention, how would the feds have let something as big as over 1000 communist infiltrators in Catholic seminaries and/or the priesthood fly under their radar, especially when Dodd was actively working with the feds and was known as a credible informer (rat)?
My guess is, she made up this conspiracy years after the McCarthyism hysteria because she wanted to "prove" to her newfound Catholic friends (such as the von Hildebrands) that she was such a good, repenting Catholic, just as she was so desperate to "prove" to the McCarthyites that she was a good repenting ex-communist and loyal American patriot.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 06:47:26 No. 666539
>>666248 >Communism means the abolition of all religion. Why though?
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 07:21:23 No. 666560
>>663679 >These infiltrators were the ones behind Vatican II. No fucking words for this.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:27:41 No. 666820
>>663587 >why havent the churches been infiltrated by communists have you seen the pope anon?
have you not seen the gay priest webms?
these are popular criticisms and complaints on /pol/, the church is certainly significantly subverted by communists.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:28:43 No. 666821
>>663679 just look at the current state of the church and tell me honestly that it is not subverted
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:33:18 No. 666824
>>663676 they likely suicided because they had communist brains and i mean this sincerely but not too rudely
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:44:41 No. 666835
>>663676 C'mon m8 suicide sounds like a perfectly valid response to being forced to return to burgeria
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:42:26 No. 667031
>>666820 What does any of what you metioned have to do with communism?
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:45:40 No. 667037
>>666821 >just look at the current state of the church and tell me honestly that it is not subverted No, it's just an inevitable consequence of it's already set trajectory and the reality that it is society foremost that shapes the religions within it. The Church was already dwindling and getting left behind by larger society, and its current efforts are a desperate bid to survive in it.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:51:24 No. 667102
>>666820 The pope has said many times he believes Marxism was a "mistake" and that the nuclear family is good.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:51:39 No. 667103
>>666821 Fuck off Patrick Coffin.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:17:23 No. 667119
Just dumping this here in case people want a more detailed discussion about the CPUSA infiltrating the Vatican.
https://www.patrickcoffin.media/208-bella-dodd-a-communist-infiltrator-repents-mary-nicholas-md/ Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:46:57 No. 667146
>>667119 >one hour No thanks.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 20:30:47 No. 667189
>>667119 This woman sounds like she’s got Alzheimer’s.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 21:05:09 No. 667224
Eugene V Debs had a Christian view of the world but he didn't win his election for US president.
Liberation theology is pretty decent for not being explicitly leftist.
>>663619 >>663621 >>663706 >>663801 I keep getting the impression Jim Jones actually just wanted to kill communists and black people and Jones Town was cointelpro. That or he may have just been using something to appeal to young vulnerable people of the time not actually holding those political views. They didn't even commit suicide many people were murdered there if you actually look into it on stories from people that escaped.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 23:01:14 No. 667362
>>666539 Because god isn't real and souls aren't real. We don't need such ideas.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 01:22:00 No. 667567
>>667362 So you're fine with alienating Christians who make up the vast majority of the American working class?
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 16:31:50 No. 668130
>>667567 I'm not American (British), but how deeply is their religion actually ingrained?
We need to spread atheist ideas as widely as possible so that people won't turn to god and praying for salvation in an afterlife. There is only one life, this one, and we need to make it a dignified one for the entire proletariat of the world.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:50:15 No. 668179
Because it’s a fruitless effort. Communism is considered “satanic” for a reason, anything that isn’t Christianity is essentially satanic to most Christians. And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that, even with the Catholic Church, private property and profit-seeking is considered wholly Christian… encouraged even.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:53:48 No. 668183
>>667567 I live in Quebec where the vast majority of the ruling class is not only irreligious but also holds a lot of resentment towards the Catholic Church.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:55:05 No. 668185
>>667583 Marxism isn't when you throw out religion either
cope
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:56:13 No. 668189
>>668130 >We need to spread atheist ideas >There is only one life, this one, when you're atheism is more cringe and religious then actual religious people
we really have come full circle
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:10:32 No. 668204
>>668189 Stating that there isn't an afterlife or reincarnation isn't religious, it's antireligious.
Religion is a dangerous, poisonous enemy of the working class that encourages ignorance, servility, stupidity, obscurantism and worship of parasitism.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:13:49 No. 668208
We should not conceded one inch to the clergy or those who seek to muddy communism with religious, spiritual, idealist concepts of gods, spirits, demons, and other nonsense phantoms designed to scare people into submission. The destruction of religion as an edifice of class society is a prerequisite for communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:21:08 No. 668212
>>665254 >>666414 >>667119 >My guess is, she made up this conspiracy years after the McCarthyism hysteria because she wanted to "prove" to her newfound Catholic friends (such as the von Hildebrands) that she was such a good, repenting Catholic, just as she was so desperate to "prove" to the McCarthyites that she was a good repenting ex-communist and loyal American patriot. Looking at Bella's life, I think it's obvious this woman was desperate for validation. She talks about how she felt out-of-place growing up as an Italian immigrant whose family tried to assimilate (as most immigrant families in early 20th century USA did). She joined CPUSA when Browder was running the Party because that was one place where she would be accepted as an American. And having been a labor lawyer who represented the teachers union made her very useful. Then when Browder got purged, Foster and his buddies resumed leadership, and the CPUSA became American "traitors" she wanted out. After the Party finally expelled her she turned back to the Catholic Church as a substitute ideology and decided she'd snitch on everyone to show how much she repented but also to prove how she was always a good American. It's really no different than the stories of gangbangers who end up converting to Islam in prison.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:36:32 No. 668237
>>666821 >>666820 So true! Two more weeks before the pope brings forth the dictatorship of the proletariat!
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 21:51:16 No. 668389
>>668208 >We need to make sure the masses believe the right things and have the right ideology or communism will never win! Literally idealism. Lenin and his followers were/are idealists about atheism, just in denial about it.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:17:07 No. 668423
>>668389 >Lenin and his followers were/are idealists about atheism, just in denial about it. That's not what idealism means.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:18:37 No. 668428
>>668423 Thinking the class war is run by people with good ideas vs people with bad ideas is absolutely idealism.
It doesn't matter if the workers believe in God. It matters if they're organized and militant.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:19:08 No. 668429
>>668428 *won, not run
Sleepy typo
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:31:22 No. 668449
>>668389 It's not a question of "belief" but knowledge of how the world operates and application of revolutionary theory, and yes, without a revolutionary theory, which incorporates strict materialism, proletarians cannot comprehend the world properly or.
Anonymous 2022-01-01 (Sat) 05:26:10 No. 669037
>>664635 They have Christian backgrounds and want to mitigate all the "good" things they remember about Christian traditions into their communist views.
Anonymous 2022-01-01 (Sat) 18:10:39 No. 669486
>>666207 >MLK was such a boon for socialism…NOT They shot him when he started advocating for leftist causes.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 14:57:34 No. 670573
>>668428 >It doesn't matter if the workers believe in God. It matters if they're organized and militant. In the interim it is acceptable for private religion to be practiced, as long as it is wholly separate from the functions and goals of the Party and that of the Socialist state.
Ultimately, however, the Church and all its organs must be brought to heel by the Socialist mission of the Party. Petty charity is the enemy of Communist society - organized religion and its organs as a whole must necessarily be dismantled by the authoritative helm of the Party. Religion teaches the working class to be submissive and exploitable by their rulers.
The proletariat must, in order to claim its own agency within the very real confines of history, be molded in a materialist lens by the sole Party of the united proletariat. In order for the working class to become self-aware and dictate its ultimate and uninterrupted rule over the economic realities that serve as their oppression, these old ahistorical and anti-scientific institutions must be dismantled with absolute prejudice – not based on the cultural, ethnic, or teleological differences between religious practices, but on their own historical institutional utility as instruments to put down the revolutionary proletariat and halt the progress of revolutionary society.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 14:58:57 No. 670575
>>663587 Its easier to just mock these religious organizations into irrelevance.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 15:14:57 No. 670609
>>668428 >"War communism was greeted by a devout French Catholic, Pierre Pascal, then in Moscow, as a “unique and intoxicating performance [. . .] The rich are gone: only the poor and the very poor [. . .] high and low salaries draw closer. The right to property is reduced to personal effects” (cf. Losurdo 2013, 185). >>This author read the widespread poverty and privation not as wretchedness caused by the war, to be overcome as quickly as possible; in his eyes, as long as they are distributed more or less equally, poverty and want are a condition of purity and moral excellence; on the contrary, affluence and wealth are sins. >>>It is a vision that we can call populist, one that was criticised with great precision by the Communist Manifesto: there is “nothing easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist coat of paint”; the “first movements of the proletariat” often feature claims in the name of “universal asceticism and a rough egalitarianism” (Marx and Engels 1955–89, vol. 4, 484, 489; translated from Italian)." https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21598282.2017.1287585 Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 16:21:01 No. 670744
>>670573 Well said fellow Leninhat.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 16:38:13 No. 670776
>>663587 Le Christian socialist meme can only go so far as the fundamental differences between the two can go without colliding.
Hoxha was the only communist leader to really push atheism hard, and I have to respect him for that.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 19:49:37 No. 671023
>>663679 This would have been so awesome had it actually happened.
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