Infiltration of the Church Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 02:42:15 No. 663587 [Last 50 Posts]
Why has there never been a concerted effort by communists, especially in America, to infiltrate Christian churches and use them to our advantage?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 02:54:03 No. 663593
>As far as I can tell, the quickest, easiest, and most effective way to engage in mass organizing under present conditions is through local churches. Prove me wrong. Lenin already did, a century ago.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 02:56:01 No. 663596
>>663593 >under present conditions >cites a hundred year old text The absolute state of ML brainlets. You guys literally think time froze in 1917.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 02:58:35 No. 663601
>>663593 Also nothing he said has anything to do with church organizing by communists.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 03:27:15 No. 663621
>>663619 Jim Jones was building Christian Communism confirmed
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 03:34:00 No. 663625
Oh wow look another shitty schizo thread
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 03:41:48 No. 663631
>>663587 >(giving them direct contact with, and respect among, the poor and working class) This is geographic if anything else. The things I've heard in trades, at least on the east coast, regarding religion would make the most militant new atheist blush. And not in the "Ackchyually" sense, in the "Mary and Joseph made that shit up becuase she was a whore" and "Churches exist to make pedophiles money" type stuff. I think ironically enough I'm the least harsh in my shop.
next line edition and nopmebbbbb Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 03:47:18 No. 663636
caleb, keaton, or ezra?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 03:49:32 No. 663641
just more 'change the system from inside' stuff. confrontation must occur, the ideological battles against religion are just as absolute as the struggle between classes. no compromise. The lenin text posted is good but does not address OP directly.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:03:03 No. 663649
>>663596 M-L didn't exist in 1917
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:03:08 No. 663650
Why is it considered acceptable to organize on universities but not churches? Both are bourgeois indoctrination institutions, but suggesting that leftists infiltrate churches garners much more autistic screeching than saying we should infiltrate campuses.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:16:55 No. 663662
>>663641 This. People like OP think you can gain control of centuries-old anticommunist institutions, just like people like Agent Kochinski thinks they can infiltrate and turn the Democrats into a proletarian party. This is a matter of class, not of trying hard enough to change a system from within. Marx made this clear 150 years ago.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:21:52 No. 663665
>>663662 Answer my fucking question instead of just parroting hundred year old writings. Why is a bourgeois university an acceptable place for recruitment but not a church?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:37:51 No. 663676
>>663619 This man was based, but why tf did he feel the need to commit mass suicide the only explanation I found was that he felt that the powers that be where gonna encircle his commune and as a protest against the world and capitalism.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 04:59:55 No. 663706
>>663619 He's actually why I made this thread. While batshit insane, his initial plan of establishing a communist church seems sound and it even worked until his faith healing con artistry caught up to him and he had to move to South America.
He had thousands of followers and huge political ties. He probably could have become Governor of California if he was more stable psychologically.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:01:56 No. 663709
>>663679 >>663688 This, while undoubtedly an absurd fabrication, also seems fundamentally sound as a strategy. Why DIDN'T the Soviets try to take control of the churches?
I understand why communists are atheists, but I don't understand their autistic refusal to cooperate with Christians when the latter have a long and rich history of left wing mobilization.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:12:59 No. 663721
>>663709 >Why DIDN'T the Soviets try to take control of the churches? Paul Kengor (the jackass in the first video) claims they did. He said nearly all Russian Orthodox priests in the later Soviet Era were KGB agents. He also claims the KGB started Liberation Theology.
As far as the CPUSA is concerned, Kengor really pushes the idea that the Party was originally very anti-religious. Foster snitched on himself when he was being interrogated by Hamilton Fish during a congressional hearing (in 1930 I believe, don't know if it happened before or after WZF went to jail) by stating that Party members had no liquidate their religious beliefs over time in order to fully take up HistMat. That apparently was bad optics since Americans were never going to give up their religions, so the CPUSA realized the way to deal with American religion was to mass infiltrate churches. This is where shit like Browder's "outstretched hand" or whatever comes in.
Look up the story of Bella Dodd if you want to rage. I can't think of a worse snitch in history.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:26:00 No. 663734
>>663709 >Why DIDN'T the Soviets try to take control of the churches? But they tried?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:30:26 No. 663739
>>663587 That picture is a vagina and Christ's face is the clitoris.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:34:15 No. 663740
>>663721 >>663734 I thought this was just a McCarthyist conspiracy, but I didn't watch the videos so maybe it's more legitimate than I remember reading.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:34:59 No. 663742
>>663739 Christian artists are very horny, ok anon?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:45:22 No. 663748
>>663740 It's entirely a McCarthyist conspiracy. There's zero evidence the CPUSA had comrades infiltrate churches. There were definitely religious leaders who were Party members though, but that's hardly what Kengor and his buds are asserting.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 05:50:15 No. 663758
>>663650 >>663665 Students, when stripped bare of their bourgeoisie ideology, have nothing that is inherently incompatible with Marxism or materialism. The religious, when stripped bare of their support of capitalism, still maintain a faith which is incompatible with both Marxism and materialism.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 06:35:14 No. 663801
>>663619 Not going to lie, Jonestown was actually pretty based.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 06:36:05 No. 663802
>>663801 Back to the depths of hell, you wrecker
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 07:00:40 No. 663811
>>663679 Paul Kengor pees sitting down.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 09:06:24 No. 663843
>>663596 Imagine saying this in the year 1917+104
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 22:45:23 No. 664624
>>663650 >church is a bourgeois indoctrination station do you have a single fact to back that up?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 22:51:10 No. 664635
As a religious person who isn't Christian, I have to ask: why is the left so obsessed with shoehorning Christianity into leftism, as opposed to any other religion?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 23:36:32 No. 664721
>>663679 >the CPUSA sent over 1000 communists to infiltrate the Catholic Church starting in the 1930s. These infiltrators were the ones behind Vatican II. Based if true.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 23:40:02 No. 664734
>>664635 most people here are burgers plus pretending to be christian is the newest internet fad
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 23:41:18 No. 664739
>>664635 Christianity is most relevant to the West. Iirc there are people in MENA who try to do similar stuff eith Islam.
They will be successful Inshallah. Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:37:19 No. 665003
>>664635 Christian hegemony in the West.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 03:56:54 No. 665105
>>664635 The only ones who push this shit are ex-Christians who are nostalgic for their childhoods.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 05:29:28 No. 665172
>>664624 https://catholicsentinel.org/Content/News/Nation-and-World/Article/Church-program-helps-Cuban-entrepreneurs/2/34/24926 >Cuban entrepreneurs are learning the ins and outs of running a private business thanks to the two-year-old Cuba Emprende program in two Catholic dioceses. Churches are sources of anti-communism and sedition. Always have been.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 05:36:44 No. 665177
>>665174 La única iglesia que ilumina es la que arde.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 05:57:13 No. 665188
>>665184 He clearly says Christianity was a revolutionary religion.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 05:59:12 No. 665190
>>664635 It's a way for them to keep their reactionary views on shit like women's rights all while keeping up the veneer of leftism.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:00:34 No. 665191
>>665190 >implying christianity is the only religion with reactionary social vies first worldist middle class anarchist begone
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:04:54 No. 665199
This board is fucking retarded. I asked you all why communists shouldn't infiltrate the largest non-government mass organization in the West, not why you're le edgy atheist who doesn't believe in sky daddy.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:07:59 No. 665202
>>665191 Who said Christianity was the only reactionary religion? Nice non-sequitur.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:09:12 No. 665203
>>665202 Did you even read the post you responded to?
He asked why leftists support Christianity but not other religions. You responded that it's because they have reactionary social views.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:13:03 No. 665208
>>664635 Many Trots have a noble savage thing when it comes to Islam and Muslims.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:26:31 No. 665217
>>665199 >You pretend to be materialists but you have absolutely no sense of pragmatism or what the social world around you actually looks like. I don't fucking care if you don't believe in God; I don't either, and yet, organized religion is one of the largest and most mobilized segments of society. To ignore this is in and of itself an idealist rejection of social reality. Dude, your whole argument is predicated on idealism. It's quite literally an argument that we should water down and fucking lie to people regarding Marxism, and attempt to create some kind of absurd idealistic form of psuedo Marxist-Christianity to sell to churches because you see the people who hold said faith to be lesser then you, to be people who are completely incapable of being better and understanding the truth. It's elitism wrapped up in pity and disguised as "pragmatism".
>This fucking annoying militant anti-theist leftist shit started with Lenin. Marx and Engels disliked religion, but they never suggested that it was a purely reactionary institution that couldn't be used for proletarian interests. Now you're just fucking lying. Marx and Engels had no issue having to work with the religious, but they didn't for a second try and warp their rhetoric to "appeal" to them. They literally stated in the manifesto the dangers of doing exactly this.
>That retardation came from Lenin with his whiny childhood issues about mean Catholics. Orthodox you retard, and no, it didn't suddenly originate with Lenin. Lenin also held the view of being willing to work with proles who were religious, but never watering down their theory to "appeal" to them and abandoning their stance on religion as a whole.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:40:27 No. 665232
>>665217 >Dude, your whole argument is predicated on idealism. It's quite literally an argument that we should water down and fucking lie to people regarding Marxism, and attempt to create some kind of absurd idealistic form of psuedo Marxist-Christianity to sell to churches because you see the people who hold said faith to be lesser then you, to be people who are completely incapable of being better and understanding the truth. It's elitism wrapped up in pity and disguised as "pragmatism". No, my whole argument is that, if less than 10% of American workers are unionized and yet 50% of Americans belong to a church, then the church has in and of itself become a a battleground for the class war and to ignore this is to ignore roughly half the proles out there in favor of weak, un-mobilized labor unions that can't even appeal to the masses.
Well, Marx and Engels were under very different material conditions where most workers were class conscious and, in general, the only people who could preach or run churches were the wealthy. Now most workers are ununionized and unconcerned with the class war while religion has become more democratized than ever before. Any group with a couple thousand bucks between them can rent out a church space and start a congregation. I live in the middle of fucking nowhere and there's still several churches around me. You know how many Communist Party chapters there are? Zero.
The Bolsheviks implemented an autistic policy of trying to exterminate organized religion. Unsurprisingly, it didn't work because most people are religious and will continue to be religious for the foreseeable future.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 06:55:58 No. 665247
>>663587 >Why has there never been a concerted effort by communists, especially in America, to infiltrate Christian churches and use them to our advantage? Christians (especially in America) are notoriously anti-communist, so if a Red is suspected said person will surely be kicked out.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 09:43:21 No. 665394
>>665232 >The Bolsheviks implemented an autistic policy of trying to exterminate organized religion. Unsurprisingly, it didn't work because most people are religious and will continue to be religious for the foreseeable future. They didn't though, if you check out their actual peace time policy it's 100% sensible and could be replicated in modern day with no changes.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 17:55:50 No. 665844
>>665254 Elizabeth Bentley was a bigger rat than Dodd FYI.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 20:34:46 No. 666005
>>665232 >No, my whole argument is that, if less than 10% of American workers are unionized and yet 50% of Americans belong to a church, then the church has in and of itself become a battleground for the class war and to ignore this is to ignore roughly half the proles out there in favor of weak, un-mobilized labor unions that can't even appeal to the masses And what of the 50% that aren't a part of churches? What of the that 50% that do go to church, but practice completely incompatible forms of Christianity that are completely at odds with each other? Why don't we try and ally with an existing bourgeoisie party, or start a corporation? That's something many people are a part or have to work for. This is just deceitful spineless opportunism that you try and sell as "pragmatism", but results in absolutely no such thing. The Bolsheviks literally lived in a time where the vast amount of people in what would become the USSR held some kind of religious belief, yet they never stepped back from their convictions and won out in the end. We live in a time where the authenticly religious dwindle every day, yet for you we must sell out and shill a view we don't even hold to those who themselves understand the incompatibility of their beliefs with Marxist materialism? Fuck off.
>Well, Marx and Engels were under very different material conditions where most workers were class conscious and, in general, the only people who could preach or run churches were the wealthy. Now most workers are ununionized and unconcerned with the class war while religion has become more democratized than ever before. Any group with a couple thousand bucks between them can rent out a church space and start a congregation. I live in the middle of fucking nowhere and there's still several churches around me. You know how many Communist Party chapters there are? Zero. Then fucking organize you lazy opportunistic faggot, don't attempt to engage in a practice of delusional idealism where you imagine proselytizing pesudo Marxist rhetoric to the religious in a church you rented out for a grand. They have literally no reason to listen to you over any other established faith, and more over, if you really had that capacity to organize and raise funds, then you may as well start organizing in fucking consiqiential political way in terms of unionizing. This is you trying to shill your personal sympathies with religion into Marxism, and you might as well fucking admit it.
>The Bolsheviks implemented an autistic policy of trying to exterminate organized religion. They didn't "exterminate" it, but held a policy of not incorporating it into the state and not changing their known stance on religious institutions. People would be instructed on the folly's of it, regardless of the protest of the religious.
>Unsurprisingly, it didn't work because most people are religious and will continue to be religious for the foreseeable future. Except it literally did work.
CPUSA Anon 2021-12-29 (Wed) 21:23:23 No. 666060
So The Party does have, IIRC, a few Pastors, Rabbis, and Imams in its membership. Funny enough, at least where I am, there's a trend among some radicals to have once wanted to be priests/nuns, usually in apostolic churches at the least. Both Stalin and Castro also had mostly religious educations, and I believe LatAm Churches express Solidarity with Cuba.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 21:40:01 No. 666073
>>666060 CPUSA Anon, as usual, being the highest quality poster
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 21:46:45 No. 666078
>>666005 >those who themselves understand the incompatibility of their beliefs with Marxist materialism Agree with everything except this. They don't know a single thing about Marxism, or what it means to be a materialist in a Marxist sense. All they know is "that dern Marks guy hates Jesus and said God is a drug and drugs are for uyghurs".
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 23:34:33 No. 666178
>>666060 CPUSA Abnon, you’ve heard the story of Bella Dodd, right?
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 23:48:20 No. 666187
Proletarians need to completely reject religions. Churches should be razed to the ground, they're not a basis for communism but anticommunism.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 23:57:13 No. 666195
>>666187 See, you people just parrot these statements with no focus on reality. The desegregation movement was led almost exclusively by black churches.
We have black churches to thank for the ending of one of the most reactionary, anticommunist American institutions to ever exist.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 23:58:53 No. 666198
>>665254 >named over fourteen hundred teachers Holy shit.
CPUSA Anon 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:09:12 No. 666204
>>666178 It’s 90% likely bullshit.
Did we spy for the Soviets? Well I can only confirm that really dedicated communists would be quietly pulled aside for some special causes or another. But the whole Dodd thing reads like Lenin’s rules for revolution in terms of anti communist hysteria. We do have some comrades in some institutions/government that like to keep that fact low key, but I’m pretty sure we don’t have anyone in the Catholic Church—not the least because the barrier to entry is years at seminary and if you’re an atheist or even hint at being a communist you could end up purged.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:09:50 No. 666205
>>666187 Sure, but atheism must also be rejected, as it breeds liberal concepts such as moral relativism and individualism. A cult of the State and of then Party must be established for socialism to survive
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:12:31 No. 666207
>>666195 Yeah, and what did blacks and their churches do with their freedom? Embrace another form of anticommunism in the form of drugs and gang culture. MLK was such a boon for socialism…NOT
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:12:32 No. 666208
>>666205 there is nothing inherently wrong with individualism.
>A cult of the State and of then Party fuck off with your vulgar Marxism
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:13:37 No. 666212
>>666208 Fuck off with your liberal bullshit. Indivusli encourages selfishness and disregarding the good of the whole for personal benefits, ie the ethos of fascism
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:15:31 No. 666218
>>666212 Individual proles should be allowed to live their lives to the fullest so long as they are contributing. A cult of the state is fascism you mong.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:18:35 No. 666226
>>666218 There is no “individual prole”, thinking like that is why individualism has you so deluded. There is the proletariat class, and there is what is best for the proletariat. When the state is socialist, what is good for the proletariat is good for the state and vice versa. To argue otherwise is to open the floodgates for liberalism and fascism
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:48:15 No. 666248
>>666205 Communism means the abolition of all religion. Dialectical materialism necessarily requires atheism as we know there is no god, and we reject any sort of extra-class morality or ethics. Moral relativism is also therfore combatted by laying down a moral code for all mankind that stems from the world as it is, not the fantasies of god and commandments.
Individualism and collectivism are not incompatible. Socialism doesn't deny individual interests but combines it with that of society. One for all and all for one, and the idea of from each according to his ability is one perfectly combative with individuals.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:51:09 No. 666252
Well I'd say that's thanks to the 1960's counterculture CIA shit permanently associating beliefs that lead to cohesive and functional societies with anti-Socialist sentiments.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 00:59:17 No. 666258
>>663596 >asks for a way to infiltrate the church >which is based on a 2k years old book >says is for braintlets quoting a 100 y.o. book If op, OP came here just to troll.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 03:34:23 No. 666407
>>666258 I never said I believe in the Bible, dumbass. In fact I was quite adamant that I don't.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 03:45:40 No. 666414
>>666204 Not to mention, how would the feds have let something as big as over 1000 communist infiltrators in Catholic seminaries and/or the priesthood fly under their radar, especially when Dodd was actively working with the feds and was known as a credible informer (rat)?
My guess is, she made up this conspiracy years after the McCarthyism hysteria because she wanted to "prove" to her newfound Catholic friends (such as the von Hildebrands) that she was such a good, repenting Catholic, just as she was so desperate to "prove" to the McCarthyites that she was a good repenting ex-communist and loyal American patriot.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 06:47:26 No. 666539
>>666248 >Communism means the abolition of all religion. Why though?
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 07:21:23 No. 666560
>>663679 >These infiltrators were the ones behind Vatican II. No fucking words for this.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:27:41 No. 666820
>>663587 >why havent the churches been infiltrated by communists have you seen the pope anon?
have you not seen the gay priest webms?
these are popular criticisms and complaints on /pol/, the church is certainly significantly subverted by communists.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:28:43 No. 666821
>>663679 just look at the current state of the church and tell me honestly that it is not subverted
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:33:18 No. 666824
>>663676 they likely suicided because they had communist brains and i mean this sincerely but not too rudely
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 14:44:41 No. 666835
>>663676 C'mon m8 suicide sounds like a perfectly valid response to being forced to return to burgeria
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:42:26 No. 667031
>>666820 What does any of what you metioned have to do with communism?
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:45:40 No. 667037
>>666821 >just look at the current state of the church and tell me honestly that it is not subverted No, it's just an inevitable consequence of it's already set trajectory and the reality that it is society foremost that shapes the religions within it. The Church was already dwindling and getting left behind by larger society, and its current efforts are a desperate bid to survive in it.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:51:24 No. 667102
>>666820 The pope has said many times he believes Marxism was a "mistake" and that the nuclear family is good.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:51:39 No. 667103
>>666821 Fuck off Patrick Coffin.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:17:23 No. 667119
Just dumping this here in case people want a more detailed discussion about the CPUSA infiltrating the Vatican.
https://www.patrickcoffin.media/208-bella-dodd-a-communist-infiltrator-repents-mary-nicholas-md/ Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:46:57 No. 667146
>>667119 >one hour No thanks.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 20:30:47 No. 667189
>>667119 This woman sounds like she’s got Alzheimer’s.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 21:05:09 No. 667224
Eugene V Debs had a Christian view of the world but he didn't win his election for US president.
Liberation theology is pretty decent for not being explicitly leftist.
>>663619 >>663621 >>663706 >>663801 I keep getting the impression Jim Jones actually just wanted to kill communists and black people and Jones Town was cointelpro. That or he may have just been using something to appeal to young vulnerable people of the time not actually holding those political views. They didn't even commit suicide many people were murdered there if you actually look into it on stories from people that escaped.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 23:01:14 No. 667362
>>666539 Because god isn't real and souls aren't real. We don't need such ideas.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 01:22:00 No. 667567
>>667362 So you're fine with alienating Christians who make up the vast majority of the American working class?
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 16:31:50 No. 668130
>>667567 I'm not American (British), but how deeply is their religion actually ingrained?
We need to spread atheist ideas as widely as possible so that people won't turn to god and praying for salvation in an afterlife. There is only one life, this one, and we need to make it a dignified one for the entire proletariat of the world.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:50:15 No. 668179
Because it’s a fruitless effort. Communism is considered “satanic” for a reason, anything that isn’t Christianity is essentially satanic to most Christians. And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that, even with the Catholic Church, private property and profit-seeking is considered wholly Christian… encouraged even.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:53:48 No. 668183
>>667567 I live in Quebec where the vast majority of the ruling class is not only irreligious but also holds a lot of resentment towards the Catholic Church.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:55:05 No. 668185
>>667583 Marxism isn't when you throw out religion either
cope
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 17:56:13 No. 668189
>>668130 >We need to spread atheist ideas >There is only one life, this one, when you're atheism is more cringe and religious then actual religious people
we really have come full circle
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:10:32 No. 668204
>>668189 Stating that there isn't an afterlife or reincarnation isn't religious, it's antireligious.
Religion is a dangerous, poisonous enemy of the working class that encourages ignorance, servility, stupidity, obscurantism and worship of parasitism.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:13:49 No. 668208
We should not conceded one inch to the clergy or those who seek to muddy communism with religious, spiritual, idealist concepts of gods, spirits, demons, and other nonsense phantoms designed to scare people into submission. The destruction of religion as an edifice of class society is a prerequisite for communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:21:08 No. 668212
>>665254 >>666414 >>667119 >My guess is, she made up this conspiracy years after the McCarthyism hysteria because she wanted to "prove" to her newfound Catholic friends (such as the von Hildebrands) that she was such a good, repenting Catholic, just as she was so desperate to "prove" to the McCarthyites that she was a good repenting ex-communist and loyal American patriot. Looking at Bella's life, I think it's obvious this woman was desperate for validation. She talks about how she felt out-of-place growing up as an Italian immigrant whose family tried to assimilate (as most immigrant families in early 20th century USA did). She joined CPUSA when Browder was running the Party because that was one place where she would be accepted as an American. And having been a labor lawyer who represented the teachers union made her very useful. Then when Browder got purged, Foster and his buddies resumed leadership, and the CPUSA became American "traitors" she wanted out. After the Party finally expelled her she turned back to the Catholic Church as a substitute ideology and decided she'd snitch on everyone to show how much she repented but also to prove how she was always a good American. It's really no different than the stories of gangbangers who end up converting to Islam in prison.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 18:36:32 No. 668237
>>666821 >>666820 So true! Two more weeks before the pope brings forth the dictatorship of the proletariat!
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 21:51:16 No. 668389
>>668208 >We need to make sure the masses believe the right things and have the right ideology or communism will never win! Literally idealism. Lenin and his followers were/are idealists about atheism, just in denial about it.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:17:07 No. 668423
>>668389 >Lenin and his followers were/are idealists about atheism, just in denial about it. That's not what idealism means.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:18:37 No. 668428
>>668423 Thinking the class war is run by people with good ideas vs people with bad ideas is absolutely idealism.
It doesn't matter if the workers believe in God. It matters if they're organized and militant.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:19:08 No. 668429
>>668428 *won, not run
Sleepy typo
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 22:31:22 No. 668449
>>668389 It's not a question of "belief" but knowledge of how the world operates and application of revolutionary theory, and yes, without a revolutionary theory, which incorporates strict materialism, proletarians cannot comprehend the world properly or.
Anonymous 2022-01-01 (Sat) 05:26:10 No. 669037
>>664635 They have Christian backgrounds and want to mitigate all the "good" things they remember about Christian traditions into their communist views.
Anonymous 2022-01-01 (Sat) 18:10:39 No. 669486
>>666207 >MLK was such a boon for socialism…NOT They shot him when he started advocating for leftist causes.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 14:57:34 No. 670573
>>668428 >It doesn't matter if the workers believe in God. It matters if they're organized and militant. In the interim it is acceptable for private religion to be practiced, as long as it is wholly separate from the functions and goals of the Party and that of the Socialist state.
Ultimately, however, the Church and all its organs must be brought to heel by the Socialist mission of the Party. Petty charity is the enemy of Communist society - organized religion and its organs as a whole must necessarily be dismantled by the authoritative helm of the Party. Religion teaches the working class to be submissive and exploitable by their rulers.
The proletariat must, in order to claim its own agency within the very real confines of history, be molded in a materialist lens by the sole Party of the united proletariat. In order for the working class to become self-aware and dictate its ultimate and uninterrupted rule over the economic realities that serve as their oppression, these old ahistorical and anti-scientific institutions must be dismantled with absolute prejudice – not based on the cultural, ethnic, or teleological differences between religious practices, but on their own historical institutional utility as instruments to put down the revolutionary proletariat and halt the progress of revolutionary society.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 14:58:57 No. 670575
>>663587 Its easier to just mock these religious organizations into irrelevance.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 15:14:57 No. 670609
>>668428 >"War communism was greeted by a devout French Catholic, Pierre Pascal, then in Moscow, as a “unique and intoxicating performance [. . .] The rich are gone: only the poor and the very poor [. . .] high and low salaries draw closer. The right to property is reduced to personal effects” (cf. Losurdo 2013, 185). >>This author read the widespread poverty and privation not as wretchedness caused by the war, to be overcome as quickly as possible; in his eyes, as long as they are distributed more or less equally, poverty and want are a condition of purity and moral excellence; on the contrary, affluence and wealth are sins. >>>It is a vision that we can call populist, one that was criticised with great precision by the Communist Manifesto: there is “nothing easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist coat of paint”; the “first movements of the proletariat” often feature claims in the name of “universal asceticism and a rough egalitarianism” (Marx and Engels 1955–89, vol. 4, 484, 489; translated from Italian)." https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21598282.2017.1287585 Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 16:21:01 No. 670744
>>670573 Well said fellow Leninhat.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 16:38:13 No. 670776
>>663587 Le Christian socialist meme can only go so far as the fundamental differences between the two can go without colliding.
Hoxha was the only communist leader to really push atheism hard, and I have to respect him for that.
Anonymous 2022-01-02 (Sun) 19:49:37 No. 671023
>>663679 This would have been so awesome had it actually happened.
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