Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 16:00:04 No. 664112
>hoax made to spread disarmament propaganda
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 16:04:43 No. 664117
>>664105 Let those who dwell here in his favored land attend now to the words of the Prophet of
Atom !
Let the men, women, and children of the Earth come forth to gather and witness the power of
Atom ! Behold! He is coming with the clouds! And every eye shall be blind with his glory! Every ear shall be stricken deaf to hear the thunder of his voice!
Give your bodies to
Atom , my friends. Release yourself to his power, feel his
Glow , and be
Divided . There shall be no tears, no sorrow, no suffering, for in the
Division , we shall see our release from the pain and hardships of this world. Indeed, your suffering shall exist no longer; it shall be washed away in
Atom's Glow , burned from you in the fire of his brilliance.
Atom , come bestow your presence on your unworthy servant!
Each of us shall give birth to a billion stars formed from the mass of our wretched and filthy bodies. Each of us shall be mother and father to a trillion civilizations. Each of us shall know peace, shall know an end to pain, and shall know
Atom in his glory! Merciful
Atom , I give unto you these feeble bones! I present to your will this frail body! I beg of you to use me as your vessel, guide me to your brilliance,
divide each particle and give relief to this rotten flesh. Cast the fragile form of this ephemeral shell into new life in the forge of your
Glow .
We stay true, until the
Day of Division until the dawn of His return to our humble world.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 16:07:20 No. 664125
>>664105 seems like a virtue signalling meme when countries could just keep a secret stockpile, disarmament seems like machiavellian psyop tbh
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 16:11:16 No. 664130
>>664105 The Fact that it was Americans who were pushing form more production of nuclear weapons and were never for disarmament to begin with? The only means of disarmament that should be taken is when the world is communist from the sea to shining sea, of every ocean. Using those weapons as energy sources as the need to keep them would not be necessary. This is one side of Posadism if we don't nuke our selves.
Of course we can go with the other side of Posadism and drop the bombs destroying the base of Capitalism and cause the literal super structure to fall a part and thus start a new.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 16:26:34 No. 664154
Nuclear winter is not a hoax, those giant ass mushroom cloud does move matter into the stratosphere that can take years to float back down. Nuclear winter comes from the logical conclusion that if you have enough mushroom clouds you have enough new matter in the stratosphere to blot out of the sun till all that microscopic solids deorbit and fall back to Earth.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 18:00:31 No. 664229
>>664112 After a certain point you have to realize that tankies are just dumb fucktards that are too corrupted by modernity to just be Christians but also too mentally retarded to actually approach socialism like a science regardless of whatever dogmatic garbage they vomit out
>>664105 >How can americanoids cope with these facts? These facts are unrelated and they're both just your personal opinions without evidence or sources
Pretty par the course for Nu!Leftypol tbh
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 18:37:26 No. 664265
>>664105 >"nuclear winter" is a hoax made to spread disarmament propaganda You can debate whether or not nuclear winter is a likely outcome (and it's impossible to have a high degree of certainty without actually unleashing armageddon), but it definitely wasn't a "hoax" cooked up by the all-powerful disarmament lobby. Besides that, we have declassified documents projecting that an all-out nuclear war on the Soviet Union would cause 115 million "prompt urban fatalities". That's assuming perfect civil defense adherence in the most nuclear prepared nation in the world. A strike on the US and Europe would be far worse.
Wrong again. First strike missiles aren't deployed (although Biden wants to change that), early warning radar is vastly improved, and the US doesn't have massive nuclear superiority creating a push for "preventive" nuclear holocaust.
Not sure what the hell this means. The American nuclear disarmament movement has always been anemic compared to Europe.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:05:53 No. 664354
>>664265 The RAND corporation released a paper stating that a limited nuclear with the PRC would result in US victory in the idea the PRC wouldn't escalate to total nuclear exchange and accept US peace terms.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:09:19 No. 664358
>>664229 >Tankies Lost me there chap. While I agree with your points about some anons being clinically retarded, most "tankies" would act suspicious of such individuals, spcially when they are pushing garbage like this that does not fit with the material reality.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:10:16 No. 664360
>>664105 Nuke yourself retard
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:10:47 No. 664361
>>664229 >After a certain point you have to realize that tankies are just dumb fucktards that are too corrupted by modernity to just be Christians but also too mentally retarded to actually approach socialism like a science regardless of whatever dogmatic garbage they vomit out What does this have to do with anything I wrote? Why do you spew so much garbage in every single thread?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:11:19 No. 664362
>>664358 >most "tankies" would act suspicious of such individuals In my experience, on this board mind you, they literally never do and usually say the most retarded or deranged shit out of anyone that posts here
But then again, this is a dumbass chan and most of the userbase are tankies, so the conspiratard and pseudo-christoid nonsense I read here might be a cancer mostly specifically to leftypol
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:12:55 No. 664365
>>664361 Because I hate tankies, and I hate them for making me hate them when I used to be one of them
More to the point, I know exactly the type of person that wrote the OP, and deluded retarded shit is pretty par the course for them and also you can’t reach through their skulls because they’re supremely arrogant and make a conscious effort to shut out new information and any criticisms of whatever specific dogmatic interpretation they personally believe
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:13:37 No. 664367
>>664365 Yeah that's pretty much my opinion of you and OP both.
t. tankie.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:14:59 No. 664368
>>664361 >>664365 In other words, OP chose to believe something completely schizophrenic and you won’t talk sense into him
>>664367 And that’s one more thing worth hating about you lot
Like all extreme narcissists, you tend to get extremely angry with any and all pushback
At least anarchists can take a joke and brush off an insult like adults
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:23:19 No. 664374
>>664362 This board is not most "tankie" organizations or whatever. As every other place of the internet it's also filled with idiots and fuck ups.
And yes, maybe the people here identifie as ML or whatever, but that does not mean that they represent the whole movement. Sometimes they have good takes, but I agree that most of the time they spew retarded shit, but that does not mean it's an ideology problem, because Marxism at the end wants you to do material analisys of issues and complex problems, not just be dogmatic about whatever issue don't feel like it; it's more of a dogmatic idiots that probably haven't read anything and just like to larp as marxist.
Pretty much this man, again, probably just a bunch of idiots pretending to be marxist, or ex pol/acks that still can't let go of their stupid dogmatism.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:23:45 No. 664375
>>664372 Agent Kochinski moment.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:24:32 No. 664377
>>664354 Is this your basis for claiming that the risk of nuclear war is higher than ever before? If you follow the history of nuclear strategy think tanks like RAND you'd know that kind of stuff is par for the course - delusions of waging a "limited" thermonuclear war along with requests to spend billions on new first strike missiles / ABM / whatever. Nuclear weapons are like holding a gun to somebody's head to get them to submit - the weapon is still used, even if it isn't fired.
The threat of nuclear war isn't as high as it was during the cold war, but that doesn't mean it isn't alarmingly high. To reduce this risk, the nuclear powers need to renounce the first use of nuclear weapons, and - crucially - unilaterally decommission all weapons (chiefly land-based missiles) capable of making a military first strike. Without constantly being on high alert of a nuclear first strike which could arrive within 15 minutes, the risk of accidental nuclear war would be greatly reduced.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:25:43 No. 664379
>>664361 If you are OP, nuke yourself, or even better, read uygha read, fucking read.
If you don't understand something you read about it, you ask questions to people that know about such things, you don't just say that whatever you don't understand does not exist, unless you are just pretending to be retarded
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:26:43 No. 664382
>>664229 >>664362 >>664365 >>664368 Do you ever post anything worthwhile or is whining, complaining and doomposting all you do?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:31:22 No. 664386
>>664374 > This board is not most "tankie" organizations or whatever Fuck I hope not
> As every other place of the internet it's also filled with idiots and fuck ups. Fair enough
Look mate, I identified with ML for a real long time honestly, took a class on Marx, tried organizing tenants in my city, the whole shebang
Honestly what got me disillusioned with tankies was that, you know, after a while I saw in them exactly what I saw in Christians right before becoming an atheist. In fact, it’s worse than that, because I see tendencies Marxists should not have that are the territory of theism in many tankies. Things like deification of mortal men, quoting out passages from old political texts like a gotcha that only works if the person you’re talking to already agrees with the specific passage, threatening gruesome violence on people for, idk, difference of opinion, heresy?
And then from most of the orgs that exist irl, half are Maoist LARP clubs, other half are book clubs, I think PSL is active, but haven’t heard about them for a long time so they probably do nothing now.
Honestly, I think what the USSR and the socialist bloc they led did was great, if nothing else they showed communism taking at least 1/3 of the world something like a century after it was theorized, which at least gives me hope that in the face of climate apocalypse the next revolutionary wave will take the world. And honestly, I think it’s quite impressive that Soviet arms are still used in liberation wars 30 years after their dissolution, apparently the Yemenis are fighting Saudis with Soviet rockets and tanks and rifles, it’s pretty impressive.
My problem is more just the strain of westerners that treat Marxism like some sort of new age religion; you know, what first brought me to Marxism was that it was very much like a science, a scientific approach to social development, the problem is how many people treat it like a dogma and not a science that evolves.
>>664382 Likewise
Do
you ?
Or will you add conspiracy shit and shitposting to your own accolades?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:38:55 No. 664399
>>664368 >Like all extreme narcissists, you tend to get extremely angry with any and all pushback You seem to be projecting quite a bit. Have you looked at how you behave in every thread you decide to post in?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:39:20 No. 664401
>>664229 You thonk that others are retarded, but in fact it is you who is retarded, severely, one should add.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:41:22 No. 664406
>>664361 Left anti-communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:42:46 No. 664407
>>664365 >they’re supremely arrogant No, u.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:43:22 No. 664408
>>664379 I'm not OP, I'm the first poster ITT.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:44:25 No. 664410
>>664399 Nope, because I’m just mean, I never say something actually retarded
Unless you’re claiming that calling you lot fools is “being retarded”, in which case I’ll just say sounds like your feelings are hurt
After all, it’s you people that tell me shit like how vaccines kill you, microbes don’t cause diseases, communism is “inevitable” the same way Jesus coming back is, quote Stalin at me regarding WWII statistics and then make an argument demanding to know if I’m calling Stalin a liar, threaten to murder me when I discuss how viruses work, tell me that ecology (a field of scientific study) is fascist and fucking particle physics
Honestly you guys say the stupid shit, I’m just mean in response and you get your feelings hurt because I’m mean when people are dumb
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:47:06 No. 664415
>>664410 *and fucking particle physics is bourgeois
Oh yea, and also all that horseshit about colonizing Mars, making materials out of nothing, Musk tier shit to discuss how humanity isn’t probably fucked with our collapsing ecosystem; really I didn’t get actively hostile until it started to feel like I was interacting with extremely confused creationists and conspiratards
Like after a certain point the average poster here seemed to just internalize the shitposts from people like King Lear, Eugene, etc. Except for the dengism, those guys are anti-China.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:47:51 No. 664417
>>664410 >After all, it’s you people that tell me shit like how vaccines kill you, microbes don’t cause diseases, communism is “inevitable” the same way Jesus coming back is, quote Stalin at me regarding WWII statistics and then make an argument demanding to know if I’m calling Stalin a liar, threaten to murder me when I discuss how viruses work, tell me that ecology (a field of scientific study) is fascist and fucking particle physics Yeah I've never said anything like that. You want me to treat you like you're every dumb anarchist/"primitivist" I've talked to? I despise you because you're an arrogant piece of shit, because you decide to bring your subpar takes into every thread while calling everyone around you retarded. You're everything you claim to hate, so tell me, do you really just hate yourself?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:48:41 No. 664418
>>664386 Its not, mate, except, well, you said yourself, sometimes some maoist orgs that like to larp a bit too much, or other adventurist that threath marxism more as a dogma than, as you said it, a science or a framework to interpret the world and the system, which at the end is how marxism should be used.
As for dogmatism and other idiotic tendencies that are mostly followed by western leftist, this was also criticied by Lenin, and if western leftist did a bit more of reading, they would understand that Marx and any other historical figure its not a messias or a god or whatever, it is a man, a really smart one nontheless, that gave us just a framework on how to interpret and see the world to critize it and also, to create a better mode of production.
You know, I would advise you to not take all opinions or post in this page as serious as you may, try to take the good parts and ignore or just try to disprove the retards here, you may not change their view but at least you can learn new things by some anons that are actually more pragamatic and know a lot more than other retarded posters.
Also, if you live in the usa or other western country, I do understand that organizing can be quite hard to do, specially considering how, as you said it, some parties are full of larpers ans dogmatic morons, but don't give up anon, I am sure you would find a more pragmatic party that does not lose it's strengh discussing stupid shit or that just paraphrases marx or lenin as if it where the bible, lol.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:50:37 No. 664421
>>664417 Tell me
Aside from saying truly dastardly, no good, very mean things about leftypol, what “takes” have I actually promoted?
Well that and explaining scientific concepts to you people.
Now, I used to make OPs, but they usually got a decent amount of traction, and never really had a very specific ideology involved in them.
Now, I want you to think real hard, without your feelings getting in the way I mean, I want you to think…what specific view have I actually promoted that isn’t directly tied to hard science?
Again, is the awful take just me hurting your feelings?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:51:03 No. 664422
>>664408 Sorry for insulting you lad.
But as amprim flag has stated, sometimes the stupidness in this forum it's quite depressing, like the guys who think that science is bourgoise… Man, I would like to think those fucking idiots are just feds pushing for reactionary views.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:51:35 No. 664423
>>664410 >I never say something actually retarded False
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:53:35 No. 664429
>>664418 You know, I actually got together with a few leninists I knew two years ago and tried making a local party, that was the tenant org I was involved with, didn’t work out because none of us were locals and the pandemic happened and we all left
Did teach me that student organizing is a joke tho
>>664423 Well then
Tell me a specific, actual view I’ve said that’s nonsensical then?
I mean something that isn’t subjective btw, not like, me being too mean or something, like an actual view
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:57:54 No. 664437
>>664429 If you are from the us you could actually try to contact CPUSA anon, while I am not too familiar with the org (Im not a burger), and I have herd that the party may be full of feds, I also heard from CPUSA anon that they are actually organizing a bit more, maybe they even do good theory discussions and such. Good luck :^).
Also, again, bit of advice, don't waste your time debating retards, just disprove their points, if you want, and move on, unless you eant to be stuck in an endless loop of:
>Le science bourg <It's based on material reality >Nooo u retarded I am smart <Stfu >U anprim, ironic you belive in science, I am very smart. Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 20:58:42 No. 664438
>>664427 Can't actually, sorry, typo mistake.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:05:17 No. 664449
>>664437 Might be worth reaching out to CPUSA, you know, I think the US is honestly on the verge of another labor movement, sure, not a revolution, but workers being less classcucked is a start
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:08:09 No. 664455
>>664449 Good luck with that tbh, and if you do join, would be good if you tell us about the org and such, as sometimes CPUSA anon does :^).
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:13:57 No. 664464
>>664154 Yeah turns out having too much dust up there makes cultivating stuff harder because less sun and in turn make a lot of people die of not enough food and rapid ecological collapse.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:18:06 No. 664472
China
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:19:13 No. 664475
>limited nuclear war dead . It's "Do as I say or face extermination ". And every single person on earth, however spooked, whatever their convictions, beliefs or political allegiances will be sharply aware of that fact. Every liberal democracy would be rocked by this and the politics of NATO countries would be tumultuous whatever the outcome. So the premise that one can use nukes as a last resort do over and return to pretending "unenlightened" war ended with the USSR is delusional. Even if the first nuclear strike doesn't end the world, it will probably lead to more war and eventually more nukes.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:20:43 No. 664477
>>664472 More like VA-chine, amarite?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:28:50 No. 664492
>>664422 Look man, I'm not part of the anti-vax "anti-science" people, but some of "you people" seem to think science is this totally objective thing that isn't influenced by capitalism. I've seen the anprim poster talk about science like a God. "science says this, science says that", as if it's just indisputable fact.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:33:45 No. 664500
>>664492 You are right about that, that science sometimes it is not objective and can also be biased, that is a fair critique of it and it's limitations, and also about dogmatism in it.
But also to be honest, while that it's true, there is a difference between pointing such flaws and trying to then improve the scientific method and our conception of the world and to just denie science and say that everything that does not fit with your ideology or vision it's bourgoise or whatever.
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:35:17 No. 664505
They can’t. Had Khruschev not been a coward we would probably have global socialism by now
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 21:37:05 No. 664509
>>664492 Have I ever said this regarding, say, evolutionary psychology or any other type of science based mostly narrative building rather than mathematics or testable observation of the natural world? Because I'd argue most of science can't really be manipulated towards a capitalist end, aside from perhaps what research is carried out and how new technologies are utilized, but scientific research is not meant to build any specific worldview, and scientists don't claim to have all of the answers either
Can you say specifically what you mean regarding this?
Anonymous 2021-12-28 (Tue) 23:46:24 No. 664746
>>664475 Thing is, if a conflict breaks out between nuclear powers and escalate enough nuclear devices will be used, but further escalation to total nuclear war isn't inevitable. The issue is the people deciding it didn't realizing the outcome, so scientists had to push to make this "nuclear winter" scenario known, make assholes understand political leaders can't just recoup your losses because food logistics would completely break down to the point of making state entities non existent in a matter of years. There are a number of reasons a lot of our comrades defended nuclear war in the sixtees, let's not forget their fight.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 00:15:45 No. 664809
>>664746 >make assholes understand political leaders can't just recoup your losses because food logistics would completely break down to the point of making state entities non existent in a matter of years. That would happen even if there were no climatic effects from nuclear winter at all. The explicit goal of "countervalue" planning for nuclear war was to "destroy the [enemy] as a viable society" - nuke the hospitals, nuke the logistics hubs, nuke the fertilizer plants, nuke the communications infrastructure, etc. Tens of millions will starve to death even if nuclear soot doesn't block out the sun.
The Posadists were pretty unique in that regard. They claimed that the logic of imperialism made war, and therefore nuclear war, inevitable, and that therefore the USSR should launch a massive preventive nuclear holocaust on the USA. Sounds like a doomsday cult but I won't deny there's a twisted logic to it.
There were also some Maoist groups that explicitly defended the US nuclear arsenal. The nuclear disarmament movement had a big resurgence in the early 1980s marked by massive demonstrations, including one in Central Park that remains the largest in US history. Shockingly many "anti-revisionist ML" papers denounced or refuse to endorse them. The reason why is that China was under the US nuclear umbrella after Mao cucked out to Kissinger in 1972, so shilling for China meant shilling for the US nuclear doomsday machine.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 00:29:04 No. 664840
>>664105 Unbelievably retarded
good bait >>664229 How do you manage to make so many awful takes. Why do you even post on this board if you hate tankies so much despite having a strawman view of them in your mind? There are a group of 'tankies' on /leftypol/ are unironically crypto/pol/ who fixate on the military achievments of socialist countries without really learning why countries such as the USSR were actually successful and worth emulating in many ways, and otherwise are retarded or psychopathic. OP is an example of this as the USSR actually supported nuclear disarmament. But almost all MLs these days are highly socially progressive and not who you think we are. Maybe you just organized with the wrong people or it just didn't work out in your city. But you should try again rather than strawmanning online and making everyone pissed off with you.
>>664492 I'm not saying that the bourgeois can't influence public perception of science, but science is objective. Science is ever changing and once discovered to be incorrect it will change. Marxism is fundementally scientific and I do not understand how you could be a Marxist and not fully in favour of science. Of course, a lot of pseudo-science exists, which is science that has been disproven but people still cling to. An example of this is like half of psychology, which is pretends it is a science despite its theory being completely non-objective, non-material and non-provable. Another example would be the capitalist system.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 01:41:48 No. 664932
Nuclear bombs are a hoax. I don't know how you can be so stupid to believe they're real.<People moved back there and don't suffer from radiation <No blast crater <Stone buildings survived, wooden buildings burnt down <Reports of multiple bombers <Just like other U.S. firebombing campaigns
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 01:46:01 No. 664937
>>664932 But people did get radiation sickness. What are you talking about.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:02:09 No. 664958
>>664932 Maybe you should tell hiroshima survivors that it was all fake all along. That surely would heal their psychological and radioation scars.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:12:09 No. 664968
>>664950 That's a U.S. propaganda photo and might have looked real in 1945, but today it's laughably fake. Here is a photo taken by a Japanese civilian in Hiroshima. It's a firestorm, not a magic city destroying bomb.
>>664937 >>664958 Wrong. People died from burns in the days after the bombing. Nobody was hurt by radiation.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/01/us/hiroshima-study-finds-no-genetic-damage.html (waste your time arguing with this guy at your own risk) Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:17:50 No. 664974
>>664968 Get nuked cunt, and eat shit also.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:18:51 No. 664977
>>664236 Everything that is not extrinsic to human experience, yes. Do we even have any /real/ proof that nuclear weapons have even been invented yet?
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:22:38 No. 664983
>>664932 Nuclear blasts are detonated in the air so that the light and blast wave are affected the least by their surroundings.
The vast majority of the radiological threat from nuclear weapons is gone after the first month.
>>664968 …it was a firestorm caused by a large amount of flammable things being set on fire by a nuclear bomb. This isn't some great revelation that there was a firestorm at Hiroshima.
Your study only says that people didn't mutate in a way that was inherited by their offspring.
Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 02:29:38 No. 664994
>>664968 Here's another photo taken by a Japanese civilian several miles outside of Hiroshima. It's even more obvious it's an airburst.
Fallout has a very short half life. It will kill you within minutes in the immediate aftermath of the blast, but becomes mostly harmless after the first month. Furthermore the blast was an airburst so the amount of fallout was minimal.
Also, if you insist it was a firebombing raid like with other cities, there would have been hundreds of planes in the air, not two or three. Or maybe, just maybe, the atomic bomb was what set off the firestorm.
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