/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

They were socially conservative before their respected revolutions…

Someone post the pic about East Germany chads giving women orgasms and sex lives.

>>665211
What do you mean? Everyone is secretly gay or wants to wear women's clothes?

Reminder that stalin criminalized homosexuality and transgender people were thrown in Gulags(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

I was just thinking about this… spooky. Anyway, you'll notice that it's not just communist countries that are socially conservative but virtually every non-western country, even highly developed ones. Personally I think it's because that the rise of capitalism is inextricably linked with a complimentary philosophy of freedom (as defined by liberalism), sometimes Protestantism/deism/atheism, etc., each born out of material conditions specific to western Europe in the late medieval and early modern periods. Then we must consider that socialist revolutions have yet to succeed in a fully capitalist country where this cultural process took place, but instead in feudal or semi-feudal countries or whatever fucking slave state Batista was running in Cuba. Sorry I no write good, but I think my line of thought is clear by now.

>>665211
> I would have thought it would be the opposite.
Why? They aren't anarchist states.

>>665218


what? Nobody is gay i am asking why communist nations are socially conservative. The women in the warsaw pact countries are all housewives. They hardly make up any part of the workforce. people are more likely to dislike other races.

>>665223
Communism doesn't have the answer for everything.

>>665226
Cause when communism collapsed, there was no liberalism to replace it like there is in the west, the population were thrust directly into old style conservatism.

Also, the Warsaw Pact countries encouraged social conservatism (generally speaking).

>>665228
>>665224
Ok but none of you are arguing why liberalism should be mixed with communism. It seems the view of many on the board is:

>Liberal capitalist society
bad
>Conservative Communist society
also bad
>Liberal Communist society
ideal

But why?

>>665233
Because social freedom is good, but economic 'freedom' (aka freedom for the rich to dominate everyone else) is bad.

>>665233
>But why?
Seconding the other anon and adding in that we're all workers and workers shouldn't be restricted or discriminated against on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

>>665236
USSR was anti-racist but people here would still call it conservative because they're not into anarcho-punk hedonist lifestyles.

>>665239
I mean being anti-racist is cool but I feel like we need to do a little better than that don't you?

>>665211
Communist countries have generally been rather progressive on race and gender relations compared to the governments that came before them. That they aren't necessarily on the absolute cutting-edge of Western revolutionary academic-liberal zoomer progressivism isn't indicative of much.
I could note exceptions such as the current LGBT movement in Cuba + Castro's recanting of his prior position towards homosexuality, and China's current apathy towards that topic. It's pretty variant.

>>665211
>China, Vietnam
Part of East Asia. Notoriously conservative. (China itself boasts a lot of cultural stuff, like feng shui, filial piety, Confucianism)
>Eastern European states, Laos, Cambodia
Attachment to religion is strong there. Also some states have past taruma with communism, so no wonder the revival.

>>665246
follow your leader and shoot yourself

>>665211
>Is there a reason why they are socially conservative? I mean socially conservative when it comes to race, gender roles and have lower divorce rates.
How is "lower divorce rates" a "socially conservative" thing? I always have an issue when people try and bring up the term "socially conservative", because it largely ends up being arbitrary things that are entirely removed from the context of the country in question. For example, you could only see the USSR as "socially conservative" if you divorced it from what it emerged from and what it contemporaries we're like. Otherwise, it's rather progressive for it's time.
>I would have thought it would be the opposite.
It is the opposite.
>>665226
>what? Nobody is gay i am asking why communist nations are socially conservative. The women in the warsaw pact countries are all housewives.
What the fuck are you talking about? No they weren't.
>They hardly make up any part of the workforce. people are more likely to dislike other races
Maybe now, but not before. Communism collapsed and the forces of reaction took over, so I don't see how this is indicative of communism.

>>665245
East Asian cultural sphere*

>>665246
pergi ajg

>>665233
>Conservative Communist society
>Liberal Communist society
This is nonsense. A communist society, by simply being one, cannot be "conservative", as being communist implies a radical change to the base of society and all of the implications of that.

>>665233
>liberal/conservative false dichotomy
Burger brainrot

>>665265
>>665266
>semantics
Use whatever term you want and address the point losers.

>>665233
>But why?
Communism is opposed to conservatism (it's reactionary as fuck) also we are against capitalism. Simple as.

>>665211
Poverty which is linked to trash education among other social ills.

>>665270
>Communism is opposed to conservatism (it's reactionary as fuck) also we are against capitalism. Simple as.
Ok so was The USSR reactionary?

China is more progressive on women's rights than Japan or South Korea. It's all about context.

>>665239
The interethnic marriage rate was three times higher than the average even for the modern US and Europe. (21% vs 7%). Hell, my dad’s friend moved there from India in the 1980s and married a local woman and started a family there.

Most of the world was socially conservative at the time the USSR was and they didn’t have a sexual revolution. Then there’s the takeover by the most reactionary elements of USSR society.

>>665273
No, it was progressive for its place in history

>>665223
Reminder that East Germany had legal gender re-assignment surgery.

>>665281
>>665283
samefag advancing his own dialectic

>>665281
You know that shanghai opened up a transhumanist children’s clinic, right?

>>665279
>No, it was progressive for its place in history
So what is the ultimate progression that will make our current social values look like the reaction of the ancient past?

>>665285
i never thought of soyduels as dialectics, now thats a really funny idea

>>665285
Kek lmao

>>665288
soyduels are a bakunin style dialectic with an emphasis on the negation more so than the sublation

>>665287
Fucked if I know, but a new MoP is likely what’ll pave the way for it.

>>665292
behold, the soyjak dialectics

>>665320
le_pol_face is banned from the sharty btw

>>665224
Interesting post.
I suspect part of the change is also due to the atomisation of people in highly industrialized countries. Hard for a "community" to resist change if barely anyone identifies as being part of a community. Meanwhile marginalized groups form their own communities as a reaction against violence and discrimination.
It's an interesting phenomenon.

Communist countries are both progressive socially as part of the project of revolution and opposed to bourgeois decadence and hedonism, as proletarian discipline oftentimes is essential for the success of revolution and process of socialist construction.
Also various social practices do potentially affect various class groups differently.
So in the Soviet Union, to give an example, racial discrimination, misogyny, and antisemitism were outlawed because they are reactionary spooks, but prostitution also was prohibited as it promoted misogyny and was harmful to proletarians, even though women had more sexual freedom. A similar case can be had with drugs. It may seem at first that numerous historical socialists had relatively "conservative" positions on use of the more potent recreational drugs, but this "temperance" is actually more because the abuse of drugs has historically and even currently been deletrious to lower class communities. What might seem like a fun recreational trip for an upper class, petty bourgeois campus kid is the poison of the impoverished masses lives, that transmorphs people into ghosts and breaks apart families for the Black Panther and the Chinese Communist. It is easy for a white, middle class leftist of the suburbs to say that the family is a backwards institution, but not as much for a Black descendant of slaves in the U.S. whom the white supremacist system has tried to prevent from accession to the "picket fences" and stereotypical petty bourgeoise family form.

Communists also reject the vulgar model of linear progress in history, that model which is sometimes upheld by the bourgeois ideology of liberalism, and does not seek to negate all that ever existed so that the "line goes up sans end".

But on the reverse side of these matters, Westernoids of either side of the A*gloid political spectrum should figure out that the rest of the world is perhaps not as obsessed about, often bourgeois media manufactured, culture wars and have important tasks to tend to other than the latest algorithmically boosted discourse of the Burgersphere. Scan through the pages of Granma or the 人民网 and their focus is more often on the fight against the embargo or rural revitalization than whether leftists have to avoid ableist phrases at the costs of neopronouns or whatever. It's not necessary to constantly do performative wokeness in order to be in favor of progress.

>>665211
It is literally the opposite

>>665280
nooooooooooo trans people are bourgeoisie degeneracy! no wonder the DDR dieded D:

>>665239
>because they're not into anarcho-punk hedonist lifestyles
There was tons of people like that, and there is nothing wrong with it. Don't campaign to interfere with people's lives you fucking nerd.

>>665286
No wonder Nick Land lives there

>>665280
I did read about this once somewhere and apparently it was outlawed after the two countries merged again. Or maybe it was homosexuality. I don't recall

>>665211
>Soviet Union
Misogyny was heavily combated. They were the only country in WW2 that allowed women to fight. Racism was banned. Stalin criminalised homosexuality, but this was standard for the time and almost all other countries (I think France and Turkey were the exceptions) persecuted it too.
>Cuba
Homosexuality was criminalised or only recently decriminalised in western countries at the time it was banned in Cuba. Castro has gone on to say that banning it was a mistake and now LGBT people are thriving in Cuba.
>Korea
Possibly the least misogynistic country on Earth. Homosexuality is not criminalised either.
>China
LGBT rights have been drastically improving over the last 20 years. Most minorities are protected very well in China, and for example the Manchurians have been protected from extinction.

The narrative you are pushing is completely false.