Anonymous 2021-12-29 (Wed) 15:06:37 No. 665630 [View All]
Both failed ML States and horrid capitalist States are clearly not viable solutions for species survival. If you don't understand this, then you are a conservative and you should study some anthropology - nation states are not the overwhelming hegemonic norm for most of human history.>Anarchists, including this writer, have used the word State, and still do, to mean the sum total of the political, legislative, judiciary, military and financial institutions through which the management of their own affairs, the control over their personal behaviour, the responsibility for their personal safety, are taken away from the people and entrusted to others who, by usurpation or delegation, are vested with the powers to make the laws for everything and everybody, and to oblige the people to observe them, if need be, by the use of collective force.
98 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view. Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 11:55:22 No. 666716
>>665630 >nation states are not the overwhelming hegemonic norm for most of human history. No, they are products of our current societal development.
>abolish this abolish that, we communists can just change the world according to our whims! Anarchists are actual children.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 11:57:57 No. 666718
It used to make sense to tolerate Leninist faggotry when Soviet Union was still around. It was realpolitiks. No reason for that now other than nostalgia over failed attempts at communism.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 12:00:22 No. 666720
>>666660 >the species will survive just fine I don't see any reason to believe this other than humans' own lack of perception and myopia
Consider this
Homo Sapiens is a very young species
Every other species of human has gone extinct
And we have an extremely high caloric demand
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 13:25:09 No. 666777
>>666720 >Every other species of human has gone extinct guess why that is :^)
what we're likely to see is a Devonian climate. most CO2 being released would have been in the atmosphere at some point. contrary to what some people think, Earth will not turn into Venus. what we're likely to see instead is people moving toward polar regions. farming will have a massive upswing there. the entire Mediterranean region will become depopulated. there will be internal borders in the EU. a bronze age collapse situation is likely, the billions of climate migrants becoming the largest land army in history, similar to the Sea Peoples
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:53:58 No. 667044
Lmao
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 17:59:57 No. 667050
>>665630 I don’t want to die of dysentery
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:03:21 No. 667054
>>666777 > guess why that is :^) Scientists don’t exactly know, muh genocide hypothesis is not widely accepted
Part of the reason is likely because humans have a massive calorie demand
> what we're likely to see is a Devonian climate. most CO2 being released would have been in the atmosphere at some point The same could be said of the Permian extinction and associated climate change, what matters most has always been rate of change
> contrary to what some people think, Earth will not turn into Venus Lay people are morons, the actual threat is a replication of the Permian Extinction event and likely an unprecedented (that is, not before seen) extinction event related to rampant plastic pollution of the planet and in seemingly all animal life
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:05:41 No. 667057
>>667055 You don't know what anarchy is though.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:06:17 No. 667058
>>667057 >You don't know what anarchy is though. Neither do you or any other anarchist for that matter.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:12:41 No. 667061
how are you even planning to operate the huge capitalist firms we would inherent from the capitalist mode of production and organize them in a decentralized way? they are extremely dependent on other branches of the same enterprise, suppliers and distributors.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:14:54 No. 667063
>>667058 it's not because you're retarded that everyone is
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:24:43 No. 667074
>Idealism and sectarianism : the thread
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 18:28:21 No. 667078
>>665630 >Both failed ML States and horrid capitalist States are clearly not viable solutions for species survival Are you actually serious? Socialism in the USSR and the PRC today are the highest stage of societal development ever achieved in human history. They have a worker state with a focus on socio-economic development in according with the needs of the people, which is guided by science.
The Communist movement found a feudal country on the same level as 1500 England, farming was done by hand and wooden tools in 1917, and when Stalin died 50 years later the USSR was the second biggest economy, with the highest literacy rate, educational levels, scientists, women emancipation etc.
Or just look at China today for god sake, they are a country with 1.2 billion people and could flick off the covid virus within 6 months, while 2 years later the West is on its knees succumbing to another variant.
You either have to be ignorant about history and reality or just delusional.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:08:17 No. 667113
>>665630 > nation states are not the overwhelming hegemonic norm for most of human history. The soviet union and China weren't/aren't nation states.
>>665632 >Spanish Revolution, Died after a few years
>Rojava Exists by the grace of being usefull for NATO imperialism
>Zapatistas Cant even maintain power much
>dual power Not an anarchist exclusive concept. Every revolutionary force engaged in dual power.
>anarchist social insertionist Googling this term only yield one passing mention on anarchist wiki and this very thread
Opinion discarded
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 19:39:34 No. 667141
>>665653 >>665653 The Zapatistas are way too overrated and they've pussied out and continue to get fucked by the Mexican government. They should learn from the PDPR-EPR, a Mexican ML guerilla who were called more organized than the Zapatistas by the Mexican government. They were owning the Mexican military so hard that the Mexican government were pissing their pants and even the FBI got involved and had to surveillance them.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 20:47:22 No. 667201
The state is no longer the appropriate unit of analysis for the study of global affairs. The rigid concept of static or semi-static states must make way for a more fluid and dynamical network theoretic in which the dominant forces of macroscopic sociopolitical organization are informational and capital networks that know no boundaries and often bypass national laws. This is information networks and capital flows as a "hyper-object" a super-positional nexus of data exchange traveling at the speed of light through fiber optic cables.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 20:55:35 No. 667211
>>667201 Your post is very landian.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 21:08:17 No. 667228
>>667054 >Permian extinction sure, but none of those species were sapient as far as we know
glory to the human race!
glory to the human race!
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 21:51:27 No. 667279
>>667228 None of those species had nuclear weapons and covered the Earth in nuclear power plants that they literally couldn’t let shutdown or else the environment would become flooded with radioactive materials, you’re right
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:16:35 No. 667307
>>667279 nuclear power plants can be shut down though….? do you think the engineers behind this stuff are gibbering morons compared to your superior intellect or something
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:20:23 No. 667311
>>667279 >implying there aren't people smart enough to build rad suits anon pls
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:24:22 No. 667314
>>667279 >Anprim is anti-nuclear power while screeching about the coming extinction of mankind due to climate change Can't make this shit up.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:41:19 No. 667330
>>667314 it's almost like primitivism is reactionary or something
makes u think
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:42:35 No. 667331
>>667211 That occurred to me after I wrote it. Except I see now reason to use an obscurantist phrase like "capital is sentient" . I hate the way that guy writes.
Is it really necessary to spazz out like this to state your point? Hot air incarnate.
Also go away nazi flaggot.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:43:01 No. 667333
>>667331 > I see now reason t *no reason
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:47:44 No. 667343
That said I sorta agree with the Landian take that we've stopped running the machine and the machine now runs us. Capital has been unleashed to such an unbridled extent from all these computational boosters and accelerants that it has essentially slipped beyond our grasp. Automated asset traders can sell off in a flash crash faster than any human reflex can respond, and much faster than it takes to understand. Nation states and their intelligence apparatuses are always a step behind. And they are just as nurtured, abused, and dependent on technocapital as any one of us.
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 22:58:01 No. 667357
>>667343 >we've stopped running the machine and the machine now runs us this is not a new take. Marx said this
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 23:46:05 No. 667411
>>667307 And if society collapsed who exactly will shut them down?
>>667314 I’m not “anti-nuclear” you stupid tankie
fuck , dumb fucking animal
I’m pointing out the countless reasons why humanity would be fucked if society collapsed in this century, I get tankies are the stupidest fucks imaginable that can’t account for anything that didn’t happen a century ago, but I’d think your minds complex enough to realize if society collapsed things like nuclear power plants could quite possibly meltdown
Jesus you stupid fucks genuinely don’t know
anything about the contemporary world, do you?
Anonymous 2021-12-30 (Thu) 23:47:24 No. 667412
>>667311 You need to know what radiation is to build a rad suit, and you need to know how it works as well, these things require modern science which requires a basic knowledge that could easily vanish if industrial society went down
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 00:24:17 No. 667483
>>667412 this is like hundreds of years into the future. but even so this knowledge is in every basic physics textbook. this kind of knowledge isn't lost so easily
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 00:28:04 No. 667488
>>667483 Climate change literally isn’t “hundreds of years into the future” what the fuck are you talking about, are you a time traveler from the 1970s?
Or do you mean nuclear reactor meltdown without engineers working on them?
And afaik rad suits need to be lead lined, no? Does the average physics textbook describe how to actually design a suit that keeps out radiation?
And again, we’re discussing societal collapse here and the implications of it, that is a collapsed supply chain, death of most engineers and scientists alongside everyone else, collapse in literacy for the proceeding generations; is this topic confusing to you?
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 00:30:32 No. 667496
>>667488 what fucking timescale are you even on anon?
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 00:37:24 No. 667518
>>667496 What fucking timescale are you on? Because the current one seems to be a 3-4C temperature shift by the end of this century, as corroborated by the conservative IPCC and UN, which is massive considering the effects just a fraction of a degree downwards had on crop yields for Europe in the late Middle Ages and Early Modern Era
Yes, climate change will also continue for centuries, but that isn’t proof that it’s a nothingburger in this century, if anything it’s a foundation for a decent argument that this can end up being humanity’s extinction event
And remember, before you say literally anything else in reply to this, I want you to remember; real life is not a fictional narrative that guarantees a happy ending, your wildest dreams, or the defeat of all bad things by “the good guys”, humans are just one species on one insignificant planet orbiting one insignificant star in one galaxy among trillions in a universe that’s likely infinite; before you begin a rant dripping in myopia and species-wide protagonist syndrome
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 00:55:53 No. 667539
>>666416 >(I CAN'T READ) Brevity is the soul of wit.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 08:03:04 No. 667879
>>665630 Nation states are a recent phenomenon.
Yes uyghur, and they're here to stay. Population density, technology, production, these material advances don't mesh with your commune circlejerk.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 08:20:56 No. 667890
>>667518 I'm not saying it's a nothingburger, retard. I'm saying the species will be fine. do you think it's going be just society existing one day then collapsing the next day, at the same time everywhere on the planet? literally zero arable land?
as
>>667307 points out, nuclear power plants aren't designed by morons. you can shut them down. we're also likely to see electricity become a lot more expensive due to peak oil and peak coal. this means porky will want to keep the plants working as long as possible
it's of course
possible that the species will not be fine. in which case, who cares?
either way, there will be massive social unrest, especially during the coming famines. that is prime revolution material
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 08:22:20 No. 667892
It's not only the fact that there ought to be national defense but the fact that the means of production, the factories and farms that is are huge behemonth complex things that require organization in order to function, all of this requires some sort of hierarchy. In the far future anarchism might be more viable if you could have done kind of nano assemblers, microscopic robots that assemble things at the microscopic level. But then we're venturing into startrek territory. That's just my opinion though.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 14:20:16 No. 668057
>>667357 >>667343 Lukacs also elaborated upon it at length. If you think Land is on to something you should just go read "History and Class Consciousness" for a Marxist, non-schizo explanation.
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 14:34:27 No. 668068
>>667357 No, marx spoke of the estrangement which was fundamental to capital, this is not the same as conflating that estrangement with a self-animating process
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 14:46:52 No. 668076
>>668068 does Marx not say somewhere in Capital that capital and its dance of commodities is like a beast larger than any of the participants? what we today call an emergent phenomenon, similar to how an anthill is more than any individual ant
Anonymous 2021-12-31 (Fri) 14:52:44 No. 668082
>>668068 He also talks about commodity fetishism as the seemingly autonomous motion of commodities, capital, etc. through the market, and how they confront the consumer as something independent of human actions and social relations. I think he's essentially expressing a rudimentary form of what Land was talking about. Like I said Lukacs expands on it considerably with his description of reification.
Anonymous 2022-01-01 (Sat) 00:17:45 No. 668630
>>665676 no one claimed that you fucking sperg
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