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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1641321323338.png (91.5 KB, 1280x934, nnn.png)

 No.673713

Why did the Soviet Union try to compete with the US militarily? They knew the US wasn't going to do anything and they knew about MAD. Every extra missile was a family who could have food and housing.

 No.673776

Because due to ww2 the military men got 2 much power. They should have been purged as Stalin intended. Instead the led USSR to disaster

 No.673781

They didn't know it, actually. Without the efforts of Bolsheviks like Beria ensuring the USSR had nuclear weapons, the USA probably would have attacked the USSR in the 1950s.

 No.673796

>>673781
Does 45,000 warheads not seem excessive to you? Especially since we know of the destruction that happened with 2 of them in Japan which were much inferior to the later iterations? Knowing this and also knowing about MAD should be enough to know you don't have to build so many. It was nothing but a dick measuring contest

 No.673802

>>673796
Like the first post said, the military clique gained too much power

 No.673804

>>673713
>Why did USSR build 56484943213516 nuclear warheads?
Because USSR wasnt socialist. Workers would have never made a decision like that. MIC existed in USSR just like it did in USA, with their power cliques connecting generals and politicians.

 No.673810

>>673796
Or maybe the best offense is good defense. Nuclear war strategy is mostly nuking the other side's nukes before they can launch them anyway.

 No.673951

>>673810
That is at odds with the USSR declaring a no-first-use policy (*when they didn't have as many nukes).

 No.673977

>>673713

See video for basic real material explanations that prompted military development.

The truth of the matter is that while Soviet military expenditures were excessive, ironically the most effective and justifiable expense was the nuclear and ballistic missile programme.

Troop counts, tanks, ships, etc. and conventional research budgets could have been lowered eithout much ill effect, but the nuclear weapons are the guarantee of sovereignty.

 No.673983

>>673713

Addendum.

 No.673993

>>673713
>They knew the US wasn't going to do anything and they knew about MAD
Not really, nuclear war/annihilation has almost happened several times
>Why did the Soviet Union try to compete with the US militarily?
Because if they didn't they would get obliterated?

 No.674005

File: 1641335308849.jpeg (93.31 KB, 1000x500, 160970438773.jpeg)

Nukes are good, simple as.

 No.674022

>>673776
>They should have been purged as Stalin intended.
Source?

 No.674108

File: 1641338506402.jpg (598.08 KB, 2048x1216, berlin-checkpoint-stand-of….jpg)

>>673713
>They knew the US wasn't going to do anything.
They didn't know if the US was sane. As what sane leader would mobilize troops for war over the "right" of west Germany to trespass on GDR land when West Berlin starts off encircled by Warsaw Pact troops.

 No.674149

>>673713
>They knew the US wasn't going to do anything
This is not true and you made it up because you are coping about nuclear war.

 No.674151

Nuclear weapons are the only deterrent against capitalist violence.

 No.674286

>>673796
They considered it necessary to win a nuclear war. What number limit would you put? It's an inane exercise, all we can say is that the USSR having nuclear weapons protected it, and by extension the entire socialist community, as the DPRK today does.

 No.674289

>>674108
>english, russian, french text big
>german text tiny
kek

 No.674295

because they had their own corrupt bureaucrats as well

 No.674319

File: 1641349895497-0.mp4 (12.86 MB, 640x360, Song of Disturbed Youth.mp4)

File: 1641349895497-1.jpg (41.73 KB, 500x365, 1979EuropeanNuclearTargets.jpg)

>>674295
When the American barbarian hordes are at your border you need a strong military defend yourself.

 No.674330

>>674319
Let's also not forget the horrendous losses the USSR suffered in the Great Patriotic War. Memories of it lingered strong into the 1970s and Soviet war planning was based around avoiding another round of the fascist plague reaching Soviet soil.

 No.674373

File: 1641353749141.jpg (523.02 KB, 1974x898, 4e6440d68764a6cf8ec5eb9d3a….jpg)

>>674330
And the allied intervention too. To Americans it's some forgotten, obscure episode, but to the soviets it was a key part of their history and fresh in many people's minds. I mean imagine how Americans would react today if 100 years ago there had been Russian divisions occupying New York or Chinese divisions in California?

 No.674378

>>674319
>All the nukes dropped in Poland
bbbbbbbbbbased NATO

 No.674384

>They knew the US wasn't going to do anything
as others have said this is blatantly false. they, for example, genuinely believed that reagan was a john birch society madman who wouldn't hesistate to let the missiles fly. funnily enough, there is evidence from those close to him that reagan wouldn't have even fired back if the soviets launched first because he saw no point (obviously no one at the time would have figured that was his private attitude to nuclear war, certainly not the soviets.)

 No.674392

>>673713
Should've followed trotskys policy of war communism

 No.674496

>>674319
>>674378
>Western Germany glassed
>Poland glassed
Was anything of value lost?

 No.674502

>>674005
Stonetoss is NazBol gang?

 No.674532

>>674392
what does this even mean, was this posted by a bot?

 No.674835

>>674532
>The success achieved by the Red Army on the military front during the civil war and the continued disintegration of the economy stimulated interest in applying the military model to the organization of labor, and catapulted Lev Trotsky, as Commissar of War, to the forefront of those advocating its implementation. The militarization of labor involved two main processes: converting military units into labor armies, and “mobilizing” industrial workers to carry out particular tasks under quasi-military supervision.

>it is our interest and our task to make the revolution permanent until all the more or less propertied classes have been driven from their ruling positions, until the proletariat has conquered state power and until the association of the proletarians has progressed sufficiently far – not only in one country but in all the leading countries of the world – that competition between the proletarians of these countries ceases and at least the decisive forces of production are concentrated in the hands of the workers.

 No.674843

>>674286
You’re arguments are circling around the shitter they belong in, evidently it was not the best use of Soviet resources considering the USSR’s non-existence after a decade of stagnation

 No.674921

File: 1641391724324-0.png (553.11 KB, 539x748, Growth9th5yrPlan.png)

File: 1641391724324-1.png (1.94 MB, 1548x815, Soviet1982EconMap.png)

File: 1641391724324-2.jpg (875.28 KB, 1280x1330, БАМ.jpg)

>>674843
The USSR economy did not stagnate for a decade, at least like the USA did during the 1970s where the Soviet economy was still growing faster in the 1970s then USA was is in the 1980s. What happened was it stalled in the early 80s due to US sanctions over the Afghanistan war then Gorbachev started to rip the guts of economy out resulting in crippling logistical gridlock as product meant for consumption in the Soviet bloc was redirected to western exports.

 No.674922

>>674022
I mean Zhukov was literally put into a backward marsh to be a commander there. And the was then returned after Stalin's death. Stalin knew that the military shouldn't get too much power in USSR politics. However they did and the managed to force everyone's hand and get 40 % of all gdp. Which is horrible.

 No.674979

>>673713
To prepare the Union of a future war against the US.

 No.674996

>Why did the Soviet Union try to compete with the US militarily? They knew the US wasn't going to do anything and they knew about MAD. Every extra missile was a family who could have food and housing.
On the right track, but you made a wrong turn. The US couldn't do very much after it had shown its failure to combat communist forces in Vietnam and elsewhere by direct means, which is when the USSR should have gotten more militarily aggressive and expanded the revolutions reach outward. Every missile is a weapon to use or give it another, and the greatest failure of the cold war is the communists of the world becoming too complacent and reserved while degenerating into impotent bickering, all while their enemies began to act collaboratively and voraciously to beat back communism by any means necessary because they correctly recognized that they had everything to lose, and to win.

 No.675005

>>674996
And I really shouldn't just say the USSR, because the USSR did make an effort with both material and logistical support being provided to revolutionary groups globally, but that by itself isn't enough when you're facing off against the entire capitalist world. The USSR absolutely needed both China and Yugoslavia to assist, and not go full autism for the former and completely opportunistic for the latter.

 No.675047

>>674921
>The USSR economy did not stagnate for a decade, at least like the USA did during the 1970s where the Soviet economy was still growing faster in the 1970s then USA was is in the 1980s. What happened was it stalled in the early 80s due to US sanctions over the Afghanistan war
It also became heavily dependent on oil exports to balance its budgets due to the high oil prices in the 70s, that reversed course and led to an oil glut by the 80s. I don't get what was going on in Moscow since while the Era of Stagnation was a Gorby meme, Brezhnev definitely seemed to have rested on the USSRs laurels rather than prepare it for the future, leading to its falling behind in the 80s.

 No.675049

>>675047
*which was possible due to the high oil prices

 No.675273

>>673796
>>674286
>believing that nuclear weapons exist

the technology isnt there, never has been. its just a bunch of fearmongering.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.675276

>>675273
bad meme

 No.675291

>>675273
>>675276
>bad meme
Good mods

 No.675312

>>674921
No, USSR's economy was sabotaged from the inside by the trots in power. From Khruschev, who did virgin lands campaign while destroying Stalin's transformation of nature plans (always remember that Khruschev was the reason why there's no waterway from Baltic/White/Black Seas to the Far East, and no super-channels in Central Asia), with Khruschev causing Novocherkassk, later rulers consistently favoring heavy industry over consumer goods production, resulting in lots and lots of labor taken out of the economy and used for useless crap instead.

This consistent decades-long sabotage, with no one getting punished for it ever, is the cause for economic problems, and then those at the top proposed solution - "well, we planned bad, so why don't we just do capitalism!" And they did. They broke Stalin's economy, and then claimed "it broke all on it's own!" and did capitalism. Typical trot behaviour, don't you think?

 No.675334

>>674843
The era of stagnation had higher growth than most capitalist paradises like Britain or France do today.

It's easy for armchair generals to sneer in in hindsight but frankly the Soviet nuclear program wasn't a bad thing, if anything they should've been giving nukes to the Sandinistas and kept them in Cuba to keep imperialism at bay. Good old Khrushchevites.

 No.675375

>>675334
I'm not so sure about nukes but history would be very different if the USSR gave Grenada their best SAMs, anti-ship missiles and incendiary rocket artillery. Imagine if Reagan's invasion of Grenada resulted in nearly every US ship and plane in the operation being easily destroyed and the airborne and marine forces that made it to island getting burned to a crisp from TOS-1 artillery and everything being recorded by Soviet camera crews broadcasting the curb stomping the US military was getting live via satellite TV with the USSR only response being uncontrolled laughter at the UN when the US condemns it.

 No.675420

The USSR could have fucking shrecked the USA militarily if they would just fucking be more aggressive. Their biggest mistake was trying to play the pacifist when they had the upper hand over capital after ww2

 No.675431

File: 1641408234456.png (261.09 KB, 626x455, load size ferreri.png)

>>675375

 No.677308

>>675312
>Novocherkassk
TIL. Holy shit why isn't this more often discussed in the legacy of Corn Man?

 No.677355

>>673796
well don't forget they were anticipating the possibility of interception (which we know now is pretty dumb) so the overkill did have a justification for it

 No.678964

>>677308
it literally is


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