Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:21:04 No. 674489
This is neoliberal to it's very core now
Why do some people act as if it's not. People revolutionary stock market reforms! Come on man!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist-oriented_market_economy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BB%95i_M%E1%BB%9Bi Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:24:57 No. 674492
>socialism is when the state owns everything >Forgets that communist society widdles away the state
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:28:28 No. 674497
>>674493 this was back in 2014. i wonder whats the number now hmm
also japan is telling because i argue japan somehow managed to turbo itself into the highest version of late stage capitalism
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:28:34 No. 674498
>>674495
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:45:10 No. 674515
>>674511
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 05:54:41 No. 674524
>>674523
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:00:49 No. 674531
>>674529 Cuba isn't neoliberal at all. Go look at the reforms in Vietnam it is literally neoliberal free market economy now. It wasn't like this before these changes at all
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BB%95i_M%E1%BB%9Bi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist-oriented_market_economy Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:01:35 No. 674533
>>674528 >>674529 Clowns with no arguments. Can only do strawman.
You guys are the Bronies of /leftypol/. Born out of a meme
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:03:16 No. 674536
>>674523 >>674527
sage sage 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:05:39 No. 674538
>20 replies >6 IPs
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:13:00 No. 674548
>>674545 >>674539 Guys, Canada USA England Australia New Zeland South Africa and Israel won't exist. These are artificial countries. Everything else is worth saving imho.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:13:57 No. 674549
>>674547 >nor as cancerous to the planet
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:16:03 No. 674553
>on todays episode of leftypol throws around words and labels they don't understand depending on the definition doesn't exactly mean you've established socialism: prime examples being EZLN chiapas, AANES, Anarchist Spain or the Free Territory of the Ukraine.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:16:40 No. 674554
>>674551
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:19:11 No. 674560
>>674553 > I can at LEAST give them critical support. this is the correct take, you also have to understand that nerves here are very tense since the dengbeetles are starting to outnumber everyone so posts like op are the norm till the new meme ideology will come out.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:19:50 No. 674563
>>674553 Vietnam is absolutely neoliberal after their reforms. Have you ever read them?
I never mentioned china anywhere you tried to combine china here to shield Vietnams pathetic reforms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90%E1%BB%95i_M%E1%BB%9Bi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist-oriented_market_economy Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:21:01 No. 674564
>OP literal broke record
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:21:46 No. 674565
>>674564 Noone is addressing anything regarding changes Vietnam made. Blame them from running from subject matter to deflect to other topics
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:24:37 No. 674566
>>674489 OP, fucking read The State and Revolution. Please, do it.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:25:51 No. 674567
>>674523 >At least sinos get free healthcare
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:28:31 No. 674571
>>674565 >Noone is addressing anything regarding changes Vietnam made. Blame them from running from subject matter to deflect to other topics Le trollerino, here:
>The first phase of communism, therefore, cannot yet provide justice and equality; differences, and unjust differences, in wealth will still persist, but the exploitation of man by man will have become impossible because it will be impossible to seize the means of production–the factories, machines, land, etc.–and make them private property. In smashing Lassalle's petty-bourgeois, vague phrases about “equality” and “justice” in general, Marx shows the course of development of communist society, which is compelled to abolish at first only the “injustice” of the means of production seized by individuals, and which is unable at once to eliminate the other injustice, which consists in the distribution of consumer goods "according to the amount of labor performed" (and not according to needs). https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/ch05.htm Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:31:37 No. 674574
>>674563 Mate, do you even read the sources you pulled up? They state Vietnam took inspiration from China's opening up in order to survive, albeit with a more decentralised form and allowing more of the provinces autonomy and control over their economies.
Again, market reforms doesn't make a country neo-liberal. Are you saying that places like AANES or Chiapas are neo-liberal due to them having a market economy? Hell why not chuck Yugoslavia in for good measure!
Again, so long as either the state, communes, provinces etc. have ultimate control of the economy and the private sector, this cannot be considered neo-liberal. Australia for instance, despite having a parliament and a prime minister still has to answer to the queen. You'd hardly call it an indpendent nation or republic because of that, despite the relative "autonomy" that the Queen grants the nation.
And again, Neo-Liberalism is also categorised by its government structure. Vietnam is ruled by a 1 party communist government. It's hardly liberal-bourgoise democracy in practice and the party still has final say on policies that may pass/ are initiated.
So, without the risk of sounding like a broken record- if you want to call Vietnam state capitalist OWING to its market reforms, sure, but it is hardly neo-liberal.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:37:34 No. 674576
>>674571 According to
The State and Revolution neither China nor Vietnam is socialist btw. They are still in the state-capitalism phase, approaching socialism (for example key things like replacing value with use production has yet to be achieved in either countries, i.e. labor vouchers/tokens). I'd say Vietnam is closer due to not having such a batshit insane decollectivization / privatization / liberalization like that which Deng and followers instituted. Vietnam still for example have a large cooperative sector next to their state-owned sector, this is a huge advantage and also creates more domestic stability in the case for a decisive policy shift towards socialism in the future.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:39:46 No. 674578
>>674576 While I'm somewhat skeptical on them decisevly shifting towards socialism in the future (mostly due to internationalist capitalism still being deeply ingrained in the overall world economy), this anon is right.
Owing to the governments relation to the economy its for this reason that Vietnam can't be called neo-lib.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 06:52:47 No. 674586
>>674567 >Hong Kong on the other hand have fully free and universal health insurance coverage for their citizens This is bullshit, first half of the post was ok
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 07:27:24 No. 674613
>Thread making the same claim about China gets locked at the speed of light while this just keeps bumping
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 07:27:39 No. 674615
>>674493 These numbers seem off (by like a factor of 1.5 to 2 in some cases imo).
My guess is there are some methodological issues at work; Consider that the people most likely to respond are disproportionately those who:
- Have phones
- Have excess leisure time
- Aren't excessively tired
- Actually understand the questions
- Aren't worried about revealing their true views
From the same institute around the same time many people in Ukraine were quite upset with their std. if living saying it had declined since the fall of the ussr.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 07:29:52 No. 674616
>>674599 >Hong Kong has a well-established, low-cost public healthcare system This not free.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 08:40:20 No. 674651
Reality has a way of altering ideals
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 08:51:12 No. 674657
>>674599 >Unlike many expat destinations, Hong Kong has a well-established, low-cost public healthcare system which non-permanent residents are eligible for as long as they have a valid visa and ID card. Ok, but you know what are "cage houses?"
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 09:15:14 No. 674672
Except they do not.They have an insurance covering a part but the rest is out of pocket.
>>674528 Cringe Hazlet.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 15:15:01 No. 674995
>This entire thread was made because Vau$h talked about Vietnam and Luna Oi
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 15:58:29 No. 675083
>>674489 It's not neoliberal cuz there's still a gubbermint . The state can step in and say "now no you don't." Rather than let private interests raid and pillage and cause sheer havoc as they loot the economy with their gambling.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 16:01:04 No. 675092
>>674489 r e n t f r e e
>>674520 Why are you fags so obsessed with racemixing? You're like /pol/ at this point
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 16:17:39 No. 675133
Agreed, which is why Vietnam must collapse and plunge hundreds of millions into poverty so that a western backed fascist regime can take power. At least when that happens we can declare a half-assed people's war™!
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 16:28:31 No. 675165
>>675143 Because it lidt the reforms Vietnam did.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 16:43:24 No. 675217
>>675172 You can find them anywhere you like. They are called doi moi
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:01:08 No. 675242
The great thing about the word "neoliberal" is it can be used as an epithet against the status quo by everyone, regardless of whether they desire libertarian small-government, a social-democratic welfare state or a post-capitalist planned economy.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:02:24 No. 675248
>>675217 Doi Moi is not real, this is CIA propaganda.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:02:31 No. 675249
>>675242 Vietnam moved away from socialism to capitalist reforms
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:05:14 No. 675253
>>674489 Its not dengist because le based vietnam fought against China.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:05:14 No. 675254
>>675248 This doesn't work on anyone. It's like denying Holocaust. All these reforms are on record
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:30:09 No. 675292
>>675285 This person is trolling you uyghas hard
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:37:59 No. 675308
Universalism that cannot lower itself to particularity is also likely to be useless.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 17:49:05 No. 675322
>>675253 Le based Vietnam also fought against their own ethnic minorities together with their les cringe southern brothers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Oppressed_Races Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 21:41:33 No. 675988
>>675242 People who wish for alternative forms of governance generally dislike the status quo.
Great insight as always, Anonymous.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 21:43:07 No. 675996
>>675255 Yes. Read Engels.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 22:05:51 No. 676103
>neoliberalism is when markets
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 22:11:07 No. 676131
this thread glows like the sun
junko !!9cfznBf./Q 2022-01-05 (Wed) 22:27:21 No. 676207
>>674493 Wtf i love Jordan, Spain, Japan and Greece now
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 23:40:39 No. 676428
>>675285 USSR was the first to reject the "universalist aspect" with their "percentage agreement" with the anglos. Imagine being isolated by the whole Cominform because your supposed """comrade""" made a deal with the fucking anglos against you, what are you going to do to survive? At least Vietnam and China managed to survive in the end, unlike eastern Europe which is now just another periphery of the Western empire.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 23:43:35 No. 676433
>>674535 >>674529 I read a brochure by the Dutch government on how to export goods to Cuba and it definitely did not sound neoliberal to me. They don't even really allow foreign companies to have offices there and all exports and imports must go through the state approval bureau first.
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 23:46:20 No. 676444
>>676428 >At least Vietnam and China managed to survive in the end, unlike eastern Europe which is now just another periphery of the Western empire. This was always a meaningless Dengoid argument to me. So if China changes everything but the name of the country and the name of the party, they "survived"?
Do you know deep the US cock is inside Vietnam's ass?
Anonymous 2022-01-05 (Wed) 23:56:33 No. 676487
>>676444 As deep as you are in the closet?
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 00:12:12 No. 676545
>>674613 Mod bias, clearly
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 00:14:13 No. 676555
>>676103 It's not Maoists who call states like Vietnam and China "neoliberal". They have far more specific terminology informed by material analysis.
Though good try, "Socrates"…
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 00:17:35 No. 676567
>>676487 Vietnam is the USA's water boy currently. No amount of namecalling by you will change that.
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 01:37:32 No. 676823
>>674576 I'd say you've never been to VN
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 02:06:20 No. 676919
>>676567 Lol no, Vietnam told the US to fuck off when the US offered a military alliance.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 11:57:58 No. 679582
>>676919 >>676936 Is Vietnam scared of China?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 18:14:18 No. 680057
>>674528 >angloid mental rot <mongoloid mental rot it's like yin and yang
Unique IPs: 32