DeutscherSchizoSPam 2022-01-07 (Fri) 14:44:17 No. 679793
>>679711 well the problem with your claim is that its idealistic obviously culture shit etc has some significance but its not the most important thing people have vastly different material realities for example WW2 was important for that generation mainly bc of the material consequences for the people
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 14:47:21 No. 679795
>>679793 I know it's hard to swallow, but sometimes and especially for people who are well of, the economic base takes a less prevalent role than the superstructuree in shaping their experience as for someone who is a poorfag. That doesn't mean that the base doesn't exist though
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 16:06:45 No. 679854
>>679793 You know it’s funny
I never considered how much the perspective of people here revolves around the notion that the world is, in fact, identical to the world of either 1870, 1917, or 1945
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 17:55:52 No. 680012
Despite that it seems like 4chan is just growing in posting and people told me that Alexa isn't really a good source of how popular a site actually is. There was an article saying that the CIA is boosting it's posting powers but who knows.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 18:35:07 No. 680097
>>677639 Literally nothing but wishful thinking and confirmation bias.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 18:42:50 No. 680113
>>679707 I was entirely serious. Name one problem that won't be solved under advanced socialism I'll wait.
>>679787 It will be some time but we are building and fighting for a future for our descendants. Even if you don't have kids yourself you can help guide the next generation of communists and build the apparatus they will need to win the class war and build socialism.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 18:47:48 No. 680118
>>679867 Yeah it's also not true though. I grew up in probably a more conservative environment than most of the people here and none of the people I knew were right wing. Friendless future schoolshooters are not a majority of kids. Aside from misanthropy most right wing politics are imposed from above and it has been that way throughout history. The only reason anyone here thinks right wing politics have any kind of mass support is because of lib and conservative msm gaslighting them that it is, and being in close contact with terminally online pol freaks that think their own politics are mainstream
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 18:56:21 No. 680131
The people who believed in generation Zyklon would happen wouldn't survive a day in Franco's Spain even they are very socially progressive compared to conservatives of old
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:03:44 No. 680140
>>680113 > Name one problem that won't be solved under advanced socialism I'll wait Socialism really IS a religion for you, isn’t it? Like the Second Coming?
Do you know how ridiculous you look pretending like “socialism” is inevitable? You’re so without self-awareness you can’t even comprehend what I was actually saying is that whatever you desire isn’t even necessarily inevitable.
Why not just embrace Christianity if this is how you are?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:15:49 No. 680161
>>677633 >>677625 The answer you seek, OP, is in understanding material conditions. Simply put: the material conditions are WORSE now than they were for millennials when they came of age.
>>677670 Teenagers are passionate. They don't take shit. However, they are not literally fucking retarded as you imply. This may be true for you, but recognize that there is a significant difference between your generation and gen z: gen z grew up online and has a hyperawareness of how things are.
>>677746 >bro just become a communist Becoming a communist is not a simple, uninvolved undertaking. A real Marxist-Leninist organization will tell you, straight-away, that being a communist, that is being a member of a communist party, is a lot of work and that it isn't for everyone. Communists are willing to take on recruits and are very interested in training new cadre but they put applicants through various tests and "are you sure…?" questionnaires because they are cognizant of the fact that being a communist is kind of a job in terms of level of responsibility. Some communist organizations will straight-up tell you that you should join the DSA instead if they don't think you have what it takes to be a communist. They will train new recruits (candidate members) but at the end of the candidacy period they may tell you either that you should continue training (meaning that you are not educated enough to be a communist) or that you should consider merely being a friend of the party instead of being a party member. For some people, becoming a communist would upset their opportunities for employment or naturalization. Communist orgs are acutely aware of this and they would prefer if people were merely friends of the party than members if being membership is not the right fit.
>>680140 >I don't understand historical materialism, you can't make me understand, I'm not listening, na-na-na-na-na la la la la la la i can't hear you Christfag Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:18:27 No. 680171
>>680161 Is “historical materialism” a secular religion where you delude yourself into believing socialist society is somehow inevitable rather than a
potential future people actually need to fight for?
Because I have absolutely no interest in the dogshit pseudo-religion tankies believe in, I much prefer scientific socialism that doesn’t center around treating politics like religion and political events like spiritual awakenings while denying you’re doing so
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:21:41 No. 680181
>>680171 based take that will inevitably be met with REEing by tankies and dengoids
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:23:41 No. 680183
>>680140 >> Name one problem that won't be solved under advanced socialism I'll wait >Socialism really IS a religion for you, isn’t it? Like the Second Coming? So you have none?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:23:57 No. 680184
>>680171 >>Is “historical materialism” a secular religion where you delude yourself into believing socialist society is somehow inevitable rather than a potential future people actually need to fight for? >>I much prefer scientific socialism that doesn’t center around treating politics like religion and political events >>I much prefer scientific socialism >does not appear to know what historical materialism is opinion discarded. please read the following:
>origin of the family, private property, and the state Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:25:03 No. 680188
It is a shock how the left is getting popular despite how embarassing it is. It's totally filled up with SJWs and other cringelords, what the fuck is the explanation of that?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:25:14 No. 680189
>>680171 Obviously socialism needs to be fought for and built, and we may not see it in our lifetimes as I eluded to in my previous posts you replied to.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:26:10 No. 680190
>>680188 most people lean left even if establishment libs try and turn it into a freakshow spectacle
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:28:54 No. 680191
>>680183 First off this
>Name one problem socialism WON’T solve Shit is the kind of nonsense that leads people to asking retarded questions like whether owning dogs is socialist, if bedtime and schools will be banned in socialism, if ugly people will get laid in socialism, if people stop saying no good very mean things in socialism, etc.
Secondly my point is that you’re so stuck in your own way and your own dogma (something you’d deny) that you couldn’t even see what I was actually saying, which is obviously that things like “socialism” and “communism” are not actually inevitable, but just potential futures that can be built, just as there are many potential futures that can hypothetically be built, and ironically the only future currently being worked towards on a global scale does not actually seem to be the one you personally desire
>>680184 Oh fun, the next totally predictable card in the idiot tankie deck
>Uhhhh, since I can’t articulate my own position you uhhhh just read these books from a literal century ago that still don’t pertain to what you actually criticized me for <Yea obviously uhhhhh the only way someone can criticize the stupid shit I’m spewing is that they haven’t read all the 19th Century books I read, yea that’s it! >>680189 Just like how 1,000 years after Christ failed to return Christians finally started accepting that maybe he won’t be back in our life, but surely he’ll return inevitably, one day, eventually, for sure
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:32:07 No. 680197
>>680191 i don't disagree with you
t. tankie.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:35:20 No. 680202
>>680197 Note I do not think Marxist Leninist = Tankie
I actually don’t really disagree with the ideology of Marxism Leninism, the best works regarding 21st Century history and society I’ve read were all written by Leninists with the exception of Desert by Anonymous
I guess I mean more a very very specific type of “ML” that are more about aesthetics, slogans, and dogma than anything else
Like notice how this dude is telling me to reread 19th Century texts based off 19th Century anthropology I have read already (largely for fun) rather than anything written in this time pertaining to the specific issues of our current world
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:36:42 No. 680204
>>680191 >>Name one problem socialism WON’T solve Actually I said
> Name one problem that won't be solved under advanced socialism I'll wait I said it this way intentionally. And you still haven't given me a single reason
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:37:05 No. 680205
>>680197 tankie doesn't mean anything, read a fucking book
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:38:55 No. 680210
>>680204 >And you still haven't given me a single reason You still haven't given me a single problem that won't be solved under advanced socialism
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:39:21 No. 680211
>>680205 i call myself a tankie because i get called one for saying that we shouldn't kill every chinese person just because the NED said they were bad. It's just a fuck you to libs.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:39:47 No. 680212
>>680171 brainlet take on historical materialism and by the way thats not just for "tankies" but literally just basic marxism
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:40:51 No. 680214
>>680212 I think anon is just being autistic, idk if he's actually rwad any marxist theory
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:41:36 No. 680218
>>680210 Problem regarding what exactly?
The reason questions like these are retarded is because there are innumerable things I can name, violence will likely persist in some form even if war went away, death would still exist, mass extinctions could still happen on Earth and threaten our species, people will still have personal problems
The issue with this question is that you aren’t asking me specifically which problems caused by capitalism will cease to exist, you’re asking me to explain why socialism won’t be heaven on Earth and it’s quite similar to asking me to prove God’s non-existence
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:48:48 No. 680234
>>680212 I know what historical materialism is you fucking faggot, but inevitable salvation from all suffering, actual socialism as a form of society itself being inevitable? No, I would not say that’s a part of it. Those things are not “history” they are hypothesizing about the future. Or more accurately they are telling prophecies of the future when you treat your personal desires as inevitable. And of course if you can claim this inevitability will simply happen when we are all dead rather than in our lifetime, well, what actually
is separating you from a Christian at that point? Because you hate Christians? Muslims do too, and they’re hardly different.
>>680214 Funny how this is the only cope leftypol has when someone tells you that you’re being nonsensical
I’ve read Marxist theory, in fact I’ve done you one over and at least read Marxist theory written in
this century, fucking crazy thought, innit, to read modern literature. The difference between you and I is that I didn’t go on to start treating it as a new religion to guide my life, fill me with “hope”, and determine my faith in some inevitable paradisal outcome or some other horseshit. I just kept using it as a method of analysis and explanation for the modern world. Because I never approached Marxism personally as a means to find a new faith, idk about you in that regard.
But hey, I’ll do you a favor and at least link you a text written in
this century I’ve read, maybe you’ll find some useful information from a book written with 120 years of hindsight that Marx and Engels didn’t have, but I highly doubt it tbh, after all, it isn’t part of the official canon
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:55:48 No. 680244
>>680218 >violence will likely persist in some form even if war went away It can be vastly minimized to the point of extreme rarity by proper communal planning and lack of want between people, antisocial genes that dfive people to senseless violence will get CRISPRed out
death would still exist
Perhaps not. You could gradually replace people's brains and bodies with artificial components or use gene therapys to heal damage done to bodies by stressors and sesenescance. People will be able to live a lot longer with no necessary limit to human life
>mass extinctions could still happen on Earth and threaten our species How? They will be accounted for and prevented using the vast resources at humanity's finger tips for humanity's cause celebre
>people will still have personal problems perhaps but these two will not be nearly as problematic as so many tragedies and hardships are solved and an abundance of resources leaves man without want
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 19:58:44 No. 680251
>>680234 You are being unrealistically pessimistic and yes a bit argumentative and autistic
I am approaching this question through a materialist lense and have few presumptions
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 20:05:01 No. 680261
>>680234 didn't Althusser already say history was contingent and historical materialism was just a description of history not a model with predictive power?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 20:08:59 No. 680269
>>680188 Because what we talk about is actually relevant to people's concerns
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 05:44:54 No. 682776
>>677639 It's mostly happening to late Zoomers and gen Alphas. Especially normies. They are exposed to shit on Tiktok, Twitter, Instagram, etc., so that's what makes them rightoid.
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 06:22:10 No. 682848
>Now some stats say 70% of western zoomers are social democrat, socialist or communist
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 07:02:00 No. 682910
>>682848 Since you brought up the 60s/70s, there's an impression that the leftist student movements were a majority of the youth at the time, which is just not true at all. I sometimes think that the right-wing youth today mimic the 60s/70s New Left in some respects – like being totally in love with themselves and getting carried away with it before a blackpilled crash, thinking they're at the wave of a big thing that washed up and then receded just as fast. Also really voluntaryist and adventurist and making all kinds of political mistakes, and a lot of the "freak out the squares/normies" belief in counter-culture power that seems silly on the left today.
I have a theory that I'm not sure has been written that the far right today mimics the New Left because both are/were reacting to traditional institutions of their camp going into decline. For the New Left, that was labor unions and old-style communist parties, reflecting in the "unstructured" philosophy of the New Left. For the far right, I imagine it's the decline of church attendance, and corporate monopolization choking off barriers to entry for middle-class white smol bidness owners who would've in the past been structured politically into their local Chamber of Commerce.
For me, what I think the left should do is seek the "negation of the negation." The New Left in the 60s negated the Old Left in the 30s, but to move forward is to dialectically "synthesize" the two, dropping the bad elements of each while combining the good elements of each into a new unity.
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 07:21:59 No. 682929
>>682910 I am afraid the current left hasn't learned anything and we just reverted back to early 20th century.
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 07:26:28 No. 682935
>>682910 No offense, but this isn't something new. Infact the thinkers of the european new right(which the alt-right tried to model itself after), explicitly said, they wanted to mimic the tactics of the new left and install their stooges in the intellegentsia.
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 07:49:28 No. 682954
>>682929 Well, then we've gotta fix it!!!!
>>682935 I admit to checking in on Spencer sometimes because I think he and a few guys around him have flashes of insight from time to time (mostly their complaints about the right) despite my severe disagreements with what they represent. But I saw this the other day and it's very Nouvelle Droite, yet I think there's truth in what they're saying here. You can have a bunch of right-wing people sitting around consuming Tucker Carlson and getting pissed off about outrage-triggering stuff in the news, but it doesn't lead anywhere. Like, imagine still getting outraged about the news, y'know? Or how we've gotta save the SUBURBS from the DEMONCRATS.
Being far-right weirdos, though, they understand the power of myths and narratives to inspire people. One of his followers even replied with a Mayakovsky quote: "our songs are our weapons." Mayakovsky was a pioneering communist artist in the USSR in the 1920s. (Spencer's follower who quoted him is a Russian guy which is why he's familiar with the dude.) Like, they're so canceled and checked out of the right that they can kinda look at their problems somewhat objectively and look at some our strengths also somewhat objectively. And I think they're… right. That is a strength of ours. Far better to share the gifts that we have with each other in a common culture than stew about "current events."
<Our gold — our voices — just hear us sing! https://www.marxists.org/subject/art/literature/mayakovsky/1917/our-march.htm Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 07:50:27 No. 682956
>>679482 The only people who will ever be able to have /pol/yps have their fascist fantasy is by joining the corporate dick sucking ironically enough. Historically both the German Nazi state and the Italian Fascist state were corporatized nations. We hear all this garbage about "big tech" and "le evil joo corporations" when hilariously enough, the only way for polyps to ever win power is through literally becoming Amazon lovers, big tech lovers, Bill Gates lovers etc; gain corporate support and you'll win. Fascism has no legs to stand on as a power except through the corporations.
Anonymous 2022-01-09 (Sun) 12:10:23 No. 683217
>>682954 this is all idealist cope
the "left" is winning in america as porky sees them to be a more stable pair of hands to steer the ship of state without casing too much discontent
ditto for keith starmer
none of this ebin culture war bullshit
Anonymous 2022-01-10 (Mon) 03:23:35 No. 684519
>>678212 I've had this morbid fascination with the RSP sub these past few months. Reactionary post-left lunacy aside, it's a fascinating case study in how the internet has warped social dynamics.
They're absolute psuedointellectual poseurs only concerned with their consensus of what's 'cool'. Like they will have a "what's your favorite movie/album/whatever" thread and the majority of the posts will be apologetically saying "I know this isn't cool and its lame of me to like this stuff but my favorite thing is x y and z". Like they have to self-flagellate for being sincere or for having an honest interest in something. Most of them pretend to have taste they think is "obscure" or esoteric, yet in reality is just surface-level artsy stuff.
Or someone will state some little-known fact about something to advance a conversation, and the replies will all be like "I would be embarrassed to admit I knew that". Like it's cooler to just wallow in your granstanding ignorance. And god forbid you try actual activism or political organization, which *obviously* makes you lame and cringe. It is peak white girl lunch table energy, which they are aware of, and pride themselves on.
It's like a living parody of internet communities, they are in a giant contest to see who can seem the more disengaged and ironically-detached. the funniest part is when they start clout posting about "I've been here longer / adhere to 'red scare values' more than you". It's mixed in with a lot of wannabe esoteric spiritualism, which they also feel superior about.
Truly sad stuff, really hammers home the reality of our situation. What's even worse is that I've seen people rehashing memes and opinions from there and passing them off as their own.
Anonymous 2022-01-10 (Mon) 10:04:23 No. 684945
>>677903 Gen X are the parents of Gen Z, not millenials. The oldest millenials maybe have Gen Z kids, but most parents of zoomers are Gen Xers which AFAIK had no particular political bent?
Anonymous 2022-01-10 (Mon) 10:31:44 No. 684967
>>684965
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 06:44:50 No. 692096
>>682776 Tiktok/Insta has a lot of leftist content now too
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 06:50:35 No. 692098
probably was echochambers. everyone i know my age irl except for 2 guys (both happen to be hispanic catholics) either don't care or are libs/dem "socialists". i met a few people who i suspect may have been actual communists but never got to know them that well and didnt ask
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 10:18:53 No. 692207
>>677625 Finding memes funny when you're 15 does not translate to being a right-wing nutjob when you're 20. The fact is that while zoomers are conservative in some aspects, they are far more progressive than millennials. In fact, I expect most posting ITT are zoomers. The fact is that we're moving left, slowly but surely, and the right is running out of steam. This is why they are becoming more authoritarian in their politics, because they know that in one decade, most of the shit they push will not be tenable.
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