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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.680083[View All]

A happening is happening in Kazakhstan.
I profess I do not know,
Where things may go,
And though things may just glow,
I want to believe.

(Embedded video will ve Kagarlitsky discussing the happening. Though I don't trust his judgement all too much, I once again admit I want to believe).

Previous Threads:
>>>/leftypol_archive/489758
>>>/leftypol_archive/490907
>>>/leftypol_archive/491424
>>677933
566 posts and 110 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.682185

>>682181
Well the frauds among us.

 No.682186

>>681572
Looks more and more like a power struggle between different factions of Kazakhstan's ruling class. They opportunistically used the protesters as cannon fodder. The military and police were ordered to back down in Almaty and had their weapons taken. Weapon seizures did not happen in other parts of Kazakhstan since the goal was to take control of the government and detain officials.

 No.682188

>>682185
Marxism isn't a religion, dogmatically clinging orthodoxy makes you the fraud.

 No.682191

>>682186
>Weapon seizures did not happen in other parts of Kazakhstan since the goal was to take control of the government and detain officials.
Almaty is not where the government is located, but yeah, that's why my hunch is more and more pointing it me, I am about 70% sure of this now.
Still no internet in Kazhak.
>>682185

Your imaginary revolutions in your brain don't count as based.

 No.682196

I'm starting to think we are being raided by pro-Russia /pol/yps.

 No.682204

>>682188
Lmao, only orthodoxy here is the dogs barking out "colour revolution!".

If the October Revolution happened today cretins on here would be yapping like Kerensky about spies.

 No.682206

>>682196
They've always been here, the thing is that they may be pro-Russia but they're also pro-Cuba, pro-China, pro-Belarus, etc. so when actual color revolutions occur in those countries they correctly side with the government, however when it's a case like this one where it's not as obvious they instinctively choose to support the government unconditionally and uncritically because Kazakhstan is a country in the geopolitical sphere of Russia. Really intelligent and analytical thought process tbh.

 No.682208

>>681954
Least deranged anti-USSR Russian nationalist.

 No.682223


 No.682230


 No.682254

>>682204
No one is barking "color revolution" anymore in here, brit, but indeed is rejected now the violence against the government because Cuba is not supporting it.
Image, that now you are losing ground on your reasoning you have to compare the revolution of 1927 with what is happening in Kazhak, and that's somehow DiaMat.

 No.682258

>>682254
Violence against bourgeois governments is part of class struggle.

https://www.idcommunism.com/2022/01/kazakhstans-uprising-isnt-color.html

 No.682261

>>682206
Unfortunately, is much better than what has happened from the western left in the whole 21st century that started to praise some random revolution and not only arrived a more rihgt+winger country but also served for NATO gains.

 No.682266

Claremont institute guy now (American paleconservseive think tank that loves Trump) made thread tying in Hunter Biden to "color revolution". This disinformation bullshit is going to get thousands of retweets i promise you and people will be regurgitating it.

https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1479928424366063618?s=20

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_Institute

 No.682267

Am I the only one fucking horrified by the fact that Russia and Kazakh government has been doing Tianmen square times 10 and actually real this time for the last three days and literally all media is silent about it, or at best saying "dang these pictures sure are chaotic bro". This is literal mass murder. This 1905 Bloody Sunday on a modern scale. This is fucking inhuman god fucking damn it.

 No.682275

An interesting article from the Cuba´s webpage on diplomatic representations that might help us understand a little why is it that the Cuban government is backing the Kazakh government. The article is only found in Spanish, but basically it states that back in May the Cuban ambassador to Kazakhstan and the vice-minister of their Ministry of Economy held conversations back in May where they talked about expanding cooperation in several areas: commercial, scientific, bio-tech, fight against Covid, agriculture, energy and mining. So it seems clear that Cuba has a very real interest on backing Kazakhstan´s gov and not the people protesting:

http://misiones.minrex.gob.cu/es/articulo/cuba-y-kazajstan-analizan-las-vias-para-incrementar-el-intercambio-economico-comercial

 No.682277

>>682267
Every NATO, EU, CSTO, Israeli and Turkish rat justifying the crackdowns is a traitor to the Socialist movement and an enemy of the proletariat.

 No.682279

>>682258
I have seen all of his work, tbh, he contradicts in some key points:
>The government did do concessions before the violence started.
>Reduced the price of gas to prices below the increase
>Was willing to talk
>told to add more control to other prices
And anyhow, violence erupted. How can you explain the violence, if the government was willing to reduce the violence, before asking help to the CSTO, and before ordering to fire before asking.
People don't go out of anywhere go to assault military bases.

 No.682284

>>682279
Because the proletariat cannot always be "controlled" by concessions and scraps, nor should we. That is a basic communist truth.

 No.682285

>>682267
I understand your concern but comparing to Tiananmen (as of now) doesn't seem very accurate. "Only" ~200 protesters were killed there, as of now at least according to what has been reported around 40 people have been killed here. Don't get me wrong, if this escalated or goes on for a while it will probably surpass the Tiananmen death toll eventually but it hasn't been as deadly so far.

 No.682287

>>682275
Based Kazhak breaking NATO blockade.

 No.682289

>>682284
>Because the proletariat cannot always be "controlled" by concessions and scraps, nor should we
Oh-ho-ho-ho, and HOOOO
lmao, where you living under a rock in the last 20 years?

 No.682296

>>682289
Nepal had a revolution within that time. 20 years is a blip in history really.

 No.682298

>>682279
>How can you explain the violence, if the government was willing to reduce the violence, before asking help to the CSTO, and before ordering to fire before asking
These things were accumulating for a looong time. They don't trust the political establishment and for a good reason. Similar thing happened in my own country a decade earlier. The sad thing is people could easily get seduced by a "new face" if the left doesn't get its shit together.

 No.682303

RUSSIAN MAOIST PERSPECTIVE (translated)

http://maoism.ru/20292

The unrest that broke out in the west of Kazakhstan and quickly engulfed the entire country became a natural result of the long-term policy of the oligarchic dictatorship. The Nazarbayev-Tokayev regime, which became a consequence of the decay of Soviet state-monopoly capitalism, has been holding on to police truncheons for three decades and pursuing a tough neoliberal policy of shock therapy, most seriously from which the most vulnerable sections of the working people suffer. The trigger for the January events was a twofold increase in gas prices, and at first the petty bourgeois strata of car owners apparently participated in the protests, but the urban poor and the working class, tired of poverty, lawlessness and corruption, quickly joined the unrest.

The protesters, in particular, demand the departure of Nazarbayev and the complete resignation of the government, the return of the 1993 Constitution, the release of political prisoners, lower prices for food and fuel, lower retirement age, higher wages and pensions, and other measures.

Due to the mass and organization of the protests, and especially because of the radical mood of the masses (the seizure of administrations and the fight against the army and the police), caused by the active participation of the working class in protest, which continues thanks to the declaration of the strike, the regime was forced to make concessions: to partially cancel “ gas "innovations (initially it was about the return of the previous prices for hydrocarbon products only in the Mangistau region), and then to make gas prices lower than the pre-reform ones, to dismiss the government and even to deprive the" Elbasy "of Nursultan Nazarbayev of his lifelong post of head of the Security Council, as well as promising re-election of parliament. But these measures seemed insufficient and cosmetic to the Kazakh masses, and people remained on the streets of cities in all regions of the republic. The response to the escalation of protests was the habitual move of the elites,symbolically "returning" gas to the people in the form of a tear mixture to disperse the demonstrators, as well as flooding the streets with military equipment and disconnecting the Internet and telephony. Judging by the incoming news, this did not stop the rebels, who in a number of cities repulsed punitive units and disarmed them, seized administrative buildings and destroyed the offices of the ruling bourgeois Nur Otan party. This was followed by reports of the departure of representatives of the elite from the country, but quite expectedly, the country's President Kassym-Zhomart Tokayev promised to crack down on the rebels, whom he called “banditry elements” and “financially motivated” “conspirators”, introducing a state of emergency in the country. According to partially confirmed information, Russian security forces allegedly also went to Kazakhstan, although the Kremlin officialdom claimswhich considers what is happening as an internal affair of the neighboring state. However, it can be assumed that the fall of the Nazarbayev dictatorship could hit Russian imperialism, so it is possible that the results of secret diplomacy may be measures to save the fraternal regime connected with Moscow both politically and economically. Even the cosmonauts of the Republic of Kazakhstan with serious faces are asking the Russian military to save the frightened Kazakh people, but in fact the oligarchy of Kazakhstan worried about their power.Even the cosmonauts of the Republic of Kazakhstan with serious faces are asking the Russian military to save the frightened Kazakh people, but in fact the oligarchy of Kazakhstan worried about their power.Even the cosmonauts of the Republic of Kazakhstan with serious faces are asking the Russian military to save the frightened Kazakh people, but in fact the oligarchy of Kazakhstan worried about their power.

An important point of the current protests and a lesson for all subsequent ones is that the protesters were organized by the support of the labor collectives of some enterprises, which not only participate in street protests, but also organize political strikes and economic strikes, which largely unsettled the regime and forced it to serious, albeit formal, concessions. It is worth noting that Kazakhstani workers have accumulated a lot of strike experience and struggle against violation of their rights in recent years, and grapes of anger have ripened since at least 2011, when the authorities staged a bloody massacre of striking oil workers in Zhanaozen. By the way, this long-suffering city has become one of the epicenters of the January "gas" protests.

Now the future of Kazakhstan depends precisely on the working class, its awareness of its role in what is happening and its ability to rally around itself the working people of the country. If he manages to stand at the head of the protests and turn the often spontaneous riots of a desperate people into an organized movement for a truly democratic reconstruction of the country, there will be a chance that the uprising will not be crushed or turned into a formal transfer of power from one capitalist clan to another without changing the economic base.

The movement towards a new democracy - democracy in the interests of the majority of society - is possible only if the new government of the country is represented not by the next oligarchies, systemic or non-systemic politicians and bureaucratic clans, but by representatives of the working masses. The interests of the majority of workers can only be represented by political structures independent of the establishment, representing the working class and ready to become the communist vanguard of all the oppressed. And such forces in Kazakhstan, alas, are weak, although we dare to assume that this country, despite the 30-year capital-bureaucratic despotism, has the most vivid experience of the struggle of workers for their rights and freedoms in the entire post-Soviet space.

The movement of workers and the oppressed in Kazakhstan is represented by the Trotskyist tendency, which is relatively rooted in the country's large cities, despite the repressions of the regime, in places close to the working collectives, as well as by the retrograde communists of the Brezhnev persuasion, who have long been on the sidelines of the class struggle. It is clear that these forces are unlikely to automatically become the political vanguard of the lower classes.

There is still no powerful party of the working class and all oppressed groups in Kazakhstan, as well as in most of the republics of the former USSR due to the many years of domination of the revisionists and their direct heirs, who became the new tsars and beys. Therefore, alas, there is no need to talk about a socialist perspective for Kazakhstan in the near future. But if the working class manages to build its line in this element and show independence in its actions, this can be an important step towards the emergence of such a force that can become a compass of the movement towards socialism, and not a cog thrown from the working ship of our time, whose optics are disgusted any bursts of popular unrest in the ex-USSR as "external intrigues" or "wrong revolutions." After all, this is what, as a rule, the majority of post-Soviet and “red” guards are engaged in today, in the worst traditions of opportunism, in solidarity with rotten governments and seriously fearing that her majesty history will rock their cozy sectarian sofas.

We wish the proletariat, the oppressed masses and the people of Kazakhstan success in the struggle for their future and the future of their country!

From our side, the Russian Maoists, it is necessary to direct all our forces to provide class solidarity to the workers of Kazakhstan, to do everything possible to reveal and prevent the plans of the Russian and Kazakh capital to suppress the protests by the force of the tracks of Russian tanks. The fight continues!

 No.682307

>>682296
Ah, yes, the so accused of being Chinese puppet state in the ultras heads…
And you had to dig in… how many different countries? and resort to the last sentence using some sort of conformism…. using "blip".
No wonder why the west doesn't have socialist revolutions…
>>682298
>These things were accumulating for a looong time
In Colombia things, too.
a) Duque didn't give shit nor concessions
b) People didn't go to take military bases weapons (especially hard to grasp if they were given some concessions, too)
>>682298
>They don't trust the political establishment and for a good reason
Burgers don't trust their government to the point they fabricate conspiracy theories, yet they don't violently go to take weapons out of military bases.
Some organization was held underground, but I highly doubt it was socialist nor worker organized in nature.

 No.682310

>>682303
Interesting take

 No.682311

>>682307
I'm not an ultraleftist.
Anyway what's your point?
Concessions can't prevent revolution or even protests/strikes at a certain point.

 No.682313

>>682311
>not an ultra leftist
>bring a Maoist party of Russia post
My point is that the violence in Kazhak doesn't seem communist, and your excuse of mixing up things like violence against the bourgeoisie is justifiable here without any evidence that the violence is exactly a win for the uninexistent socialist movement. You want to believe what is not there.
I stand with Cuban's government statement, which knows two or three things more than you about upholding socialist revolutions and working-class struggles against imperialism.

 No.682315

File: 1641680397246.png (391.54 KB, 766x1880, 1641582971008.png)

>>682313
Read the president of kazakhstan statement on protest

Tell me what is in anyway anti imperialist about his leadership or guidance. Literally protecting foreign business and open to all of them

This is not comparable to distinct south america leaders vocally against IMF or world bank etc

 No.682326

File: 1641680969455.jpeg (81.87 KB, 568x556, 1636587064427.jpeg)

>>682230
>American Pan-Turkism
Sounds like a special entrée you'd find in a Turkish restaurant in the states.
>>682267
Yes, its fucking atrocious.

All this finger pointing is ridiculous. Doesn't fucking matter who the fuck started the shit when the shit already started flying. What does matter is building strong local networks beforehand (whether orgs or affinity groups) in order to weather the conflict because as we all see one's "foreign comrades" might as well let you die to the "peace keepers" than lend a helping hand and solidarity only goes so far when the bullets start flying.

 No.682333

>>682315
This is a deflection point of my statement. Politicians be politicians not explaining stuff and doing broad statements that can be interpreted in multiple ways and I am not here to defend someone who hasn't deleted the communist suppression of his predecessor not like he could do that alone when the country was controlled by Nazarbayev, in reality, and doesn't represent our interests in many areas.
What do you want me to say? that the violence is justifiable because he wants to defend international trade?
is now communism an isolationist ideology?
Yes, oil workers, protesters were protesting. Does that mean these guys (Tokayev's) can't be attacked by worst factions than theirs?
Fuck, if a fucking capitalist is in power, what do you expect to see?
Does that mean the Cuban government is wrong in supporting the government that was open to breaking the NATO blockade? Hell, no.

I still see this as an ousting process of Nazerbayevs ruling class by some external influence, but not a communist uprising I really wish.


>>682326
This is a correct take in that last statement. It should be advisable to create multiple social international networks so we can point fingers at anyone fucking with workers, like, if in Kazhak happens a violation of workers' rights, it should be possible to communicate it to the world no matter if they are internet censored.

 No.682342

>>682313
Ultraleftism is "left communism", the sort Lenin was attacking for their ridiculous attitudes of no compromise.
Kazakhstan does have a socialist movement, although like all others in the post-USSR it's repressed.
As for Cuba, it's not some godlike authority.

 No.682346

>>682258
>>682279 (me)
Also, something yesterday I was wondering reviwing his YT channel, I would like to know how's communicating this to the outside if there's no internet from there. Is he out from Kazakh? This is important. If he's not in Kazakh his information loses reliability.

 No.682349

>>682342
>it's not some godlike authority
OH-HO-HO-HO
Talk to me when you achieve your revolution.

 No.682352

>>682285
Reminds of Myanmar. A shitton of people have died there (more than Tiananmen by far), and yet, a defining silence is emitted from the media.

The only instances i remember shit is going down there is whenever i visit r/combatfootage.

 No.682359

>>681453
He's obviously shitposting.

 No.682361

>>682349
I'm not attacking Cuba, just saying that it doesn't have automatic authority on all world affairs.

Here's a thought: the ComParty of Cuba and Socialist Movement of Kazakhstan are both in the IMCWP.

http://www.solidnet.org/meetings-and-statements/imcwp/Extraordinary-TeleConference-of-the-International-Meeting-of-Communist-and-Workers-Parties/

 No.682370

>>682333
>It should be advisable to create multiple social international networks
<so we can point fingers at anyone fucking with workers, like, if in Kazhak happens a violation of workers' rights, it should be possible to communicate it to the world no matter if they are internet censored.
yes, the most important goal of internationalism is providing enough info to leftypol so that impatient happening fags here can instantly have a correct take and provide symbolic support to the correct side

 No.682378

>>682370
I am not saying for us, we are an easy to co-opt board on the internet. But for real movements. kek. and from there, then we can just use this place as a beacon to retransmit the invaluable information, even if the internet is cut-off.
This is not my main source on-ground of the worldwide events but is one of them. much appreciated mods

 No.682385

>>682315
Has NATO said anything regarding Kazakhstan?

 No.682418

File: 1641685829851.png (487.76 KB, 775x516, ClipboardImage.png)

>>682385
Not yet AFAIK. But you should expect them to support the gov since they are on friendly relations.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49598.htm

 No.682443

>>682079
labor strikes don't commit beheadings or aim to overthrow governments. this is a political movement, not a strike. and by all indications, it's a capitalist political movement. i don't support capitalist political movements killing people or overthrowing governments without some really good reason. i haven't seen any good reason.
Also note the irony of the anarkiddies in here who hate "capitalist China" and "dengists" etc, saying we have to use and support capitalism indefinitely to hopefully build socialism somewhere down the road. socialist revolutions don't materialize out of nothing, after all!

 No.682450

>>682443
>labor strikes don't commit beheadings or aim to overthrow governments.
Yea but thinking that the protests have just one common ideology would be stupid.
Kazakhstan is a country with a lot of muslims who might have been inspired by ISIS, at the same time that there are workers who are fed up with the goverment fucking them up everyday (and the times they went on strike the president straight out shot at them).
Reminder that during the russian civil war there were like, 50 factions (most of them contrary to soviet rule, some of them being like social-revolutionaries but ones being slighty more radical than the other…), or how in the civil war there were like 10 al-qaeda and radical islamist organizations which fought each other (and are probably fighting eachother as we speak) and against Assad (which btw the syrian civil war happened because of stuff like what's happening in Kazakhstan, mostly a drought and Assad behaving like a neoliberal, and although I don't know how the situation with NATO was like before the civil war, I mean Syria hates Israel since always, but they helped on the Iraq war, although that might have been real politik tbh).
The problem with non-organized protests, like the ones we're seeing, is that everyone is revolting at the same time.
Also you gotta recognize that after 30 years of being promised a better life, Kazakhstans must be fucking furious with their goverment.

 No.682523

>>682385
Atlantic council did. Check his blogspot. (They like the propaganda arm of the NATO).

 No.682525

File: 1641692892098.png (1.46 MB, 1035x1280, xi_the_storm.png)

>>680960
But Xi

 No.682527

>>681644
I will take the opportunity that now the thread is full to comment on this. DO not pay attention to Sage and similar takes. He is a brit who is living under aristocracy rule, "godgiven by blood right" to decide how and what to utilize capitalism, not even a complete liberal revolution arrived at the U.K., and has no ground to attack China. His takes are pure idealism and rarely is right on matters that are alien to his U.K. immediate sphere.

 No.682659

It's telling that the usual tinfoilers (Leninhat and Sage) actually have reasonable takes ITT

>>682254
Hot take: The Cuban communist party today is slowly becoming afflicted by the same revisionist petite bourgeois rot that affected all the other communist parties that have fallen so far, especially obvious if you've kept up with the developments there over the past few years

 No.683553

>>682659
>Hot take: The Cuban communist party today is slowly becoming afflicted by the same revisionist petite bourgeois rot that affected all the other communist parties that have fallen so far, especially obvious if you've kept up with the developments there over the past few years

If westerners don't fucking start their socialist revolution, what do you want from the Cubans?
Also, Lenin admitted that the revolutions in their difficult days had to adjust daily their policies or else would go extinct. How's that revisionism?

 No.688992

>>682443
>labor strikes don't commit beheadings
maybe in your country


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