/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>686338
>>686281
Oh yes, the party which never managed to achieve anything try to inform us about the evils of CPC which both murders USA and lifts hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. No, I won't read their shit, it's pure cope and pro-imperialist bias ala Trotsky.

>russia and china claiming support
>internet shut off
Is this gonna be Tienanmen Country?

I know nothing of nothing and lurking the thread makes me happy. I'm just happy to see the board so alive.

>>685945
Yes, and they are willing to fight each other over the limited resources to accumulate wealth with

>>686338
>bis
>reeee not with the U.S.
>not with CHYNAH reeeee
Goshly, where did Igear that…
Ah, yes, from literally CIA-funded 'anarchists'.

>>686362
>pro-imperialist bias ala Trotsky.
Trotsky was actually very dedicated to anti imperialism to the point of supporting fascism in a very glowzone like fashion
<In Brazil there now reigns a semifascist regime that every revolutionary can only view with hatred. Let us assume, however, that on the morrow England enters into a military conflict with Brazil. I ask you on whose side of the conflict will the working class be? I will answer for myself personally—in this case I will be on the side of “fascist” Brazil against “democratic” Great Britain. Why? Because in the conflict between them it will not be a question of democracy or fascism. If England should be victorious, she will put another fascist in Rio de Janeiro and will place double chains on Brazil. If Brazil on the contrary should be victorious, it will give a mighty impulse to national and democratic consciousness of the country and will lead to the overthrow of the Vargas dictatorship. The defeat of England will at the same time deliver a blow to British imperialism and will give an impulse to the revolutionary movement of the British proletariat. Truly, one must have an empty head to reduce world antagonisms and military conflicts to the struggle between fascism and democracy. Under all masks one must know how to distinguish exploiters, slave-owners, and robbers!
http://www.marxists3va6eopxoeiegih3iyex2zg3tmace7afbxjqlabmranzjjad.onion/archive/trotsky/1938/09/liberation.htm

>>686409 (me)
Didn't see it was an onion link, here's another:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/09/liberation.htm

>>686409
Damn I am now a trot

>>686359
China is capitalist and anti-communist

>>686430
>china is anti communist
You can call them a lot of things but this is stupid and you know it

>>685364
>Austrian Labor Party
wtf lmao

>>686513
I noticed that too, I think it may have been a machine translation error, any one got an idea what party it's referencing specifically? The "Austrian Labor Party" doesn't exist

>>686281
>>686338
Link's not working for me Lear, any other ways of seeing it?

>>686409
This is unironically true though

>>686517
Partei der Arbeit is known as Party of Labour of Austria which is apparently a break off from the PKO by Marxist Leninists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Labour_of_Austria

>>686527
Sorry about that Comrade, here is a link that works https://www.bannedthought.net/India/CPI-Maoist-Docs/Books/China-Social-Imperialism-CPI-Maoist-2021-Eng-view.pdf .

>>686359
>Yes, because they are desperate enough to ally with communists - China.
You mean like the US did in the 70s and 80s?
>While Russia MAY attempt to become the hegemon in some point in time, it's both unfeasible and FOR NOW it's resulting in USA losing positions.
No, it's not a question of "may." Read Lenin ffs, capitalism and imperialism are literally inseparable, the former ALWAYS produces the latter. Any decline in American power opens space for Russia to expand its own imperial influence, just like the decline of a major corporation only opens space for smaller ones to eat up their market share. As with the companies, the problem isn't this or thay monopoly or cartel, but the system which produces them. The same is true of empires. Taking sides in disputes between big capitalist powers is like running on a treadmill, the only solution is independent working class organization against all bourgeois states.

>>686617
>You mean like the US did in the 70s and 80s?

There never was an alliance. China exploited contradictions between her enemies, that's all there was to it. Russia today is very fucking different to USA of old in that Russia is not a fucking pretender to hegemonic power.

>No, it's not a question of "may."

Right, USA and, say, Japan are competitors of the same scale as Britain and Germany of 19-20th centuries. Stop being a retard.

>Any decline in American power opens space for Russia to expand its own imperial influence

So we need to safeguard American hegemony in order to achieve socialism, apparently. :D

>>686635
is the American hegemony with us in the room right now?

>>686409
>>686411
>1938

Ah, so he wrote it after he started to conspire with fascists, lol.

Check this shit out https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/04/ukraine.html where Trotsky was arguing for the independence of the Ukraine - because promises were made to fascists to give Ukraine to Germany

or this https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/09/aboveall.htm piece full of rage and disbelief at Stalin for outplaying everyone and making Hitler commit to the war against Britain.

>>686638
Are you butthurt about people asking you that, but with "dengoids" instead of "American hegemony"?

>>686639
The one big thing that Stalin outplayed is the 27 millions of soviet comrades who died in this war.

>>686638
Yes.

>>686635
>There never was an alliance
I guess it was just a coincidence that China and the US were on the same side of basically every geopolitical conflict from 1975-1991 then, just as they started trading with each other.
>Russia today is very fucking different to USA of old in that Russia is not a fucking pretender to hegemonic power.
All major capitalist states are hegemons in waiting. This is the nature of the capitalist system as Lenin proved.
>Right, USA and, say, Japan are competitors of the same scale as Britain and Germany of 19-20th centuries.
No, since Japan is a satellite of the US. Russia is not of course, but it is still governed by the same material forces which produce the worst horrors of American imperialism.
>So we need to safeguard American hegemony in order to achieve socialism, apparently
No we need to form independent communist organizations, build worker's power, practice revolutionary defeatism, and show solidarity with communists around the world. This goes for communists living both America's and Russia's spheres of influence. Russia will not solve our problems, and the exact second it begins to seriously threaten US hegemony is the second it will begin to become a bigger threat to our movement than America is. Clearly then, taking sides in conflicts between capitalists is futile. Instead all comrades must work to bring about the removal of their respective bourgeois governments and smash their respective empires from within, and we must do everything possible to aid in this endeavor.

>>686658
>I guess it was just a coincidence that China and the US were on the same side of basically every geopolitical conflict from 1975-1991 then, just as they started trading with each other.

tbf im starting to realize this was the right call looking at the utter disaster of maoism, gonzaloism and the collapse of the eastern bloc and etc.

the chinese got out of a sinking ship and now they are strong because of it

>>686661
>the chinese got out of a sinking ship and now they are strong because of it
They actively helped to sink it. But hey, it's okay because they are making vague promises of socialism decades from now, so that makes it fine that they helped to destroy actual socialist planned economies and usher in the era of blackest reaction.

>>686667
mate the reforms happened post 1978 china.

at that stage the soviet union was doomed to collapse, the capitalist entrenched themselves in asia, the eastern bloc was bordering to collapse alongside the soviet union, and the leftist movement in western countries were dying.

at that point the ship was already near sunken, and china kicking it to sink further was barely a dent in anything. At that point what option did china really have? Go back to maoism which heavily discredited itself during the cultural revolution, or go to a soviet style planned economy even tho that type of economy was collapsing right in front of chinas eyes. Like i can understand china should be criticized for its certain actions but looking at chinas situation its understandable why they went the route they did

>>686682
>at that stage the soviet union was doomed to collapse
That's bullshit, there's literally no evidence to support that claim. Certainly nobody at the time felt that way, even in the 80s the collapse came as a surprise to most people. The Soviet Union was still a superpower at that point, and while it's rate of growth had slowed they were far from being in a crisis point.
>go to a soviet style planned economy even tho that type of economy was collapsing right in front of chinas eyes
Yes we get it, socialism is bad, planned economies don't work, capitalism is the only way forwards. Maybe you'd feel more at home on r/neoliberal.
>At that point what option did china really have?
Ally with the world's leading socialist state against imperialism, instead of doing, y'know, the exact opposite of that.

>>686658
It went beyond 1991, the phillipines and Israel and Saudi Arabia/ Yemen are happening today

>>686638
Is being in the room with us right now in the room with us right now?

Can people stop this thing where you just imply somebody is a skitzo instead of actually making an argument it’s boring as hell and not productive

>>686638
there's definitely no sign of intelligent life in your room right now

>>686644
See this shit? All the lies about USSR and Stalin are tied in together, and destroying one myth leads to the fall of all the mythology. No, 27 millions Soviets didn't die in the war, only 7 millions TOTAL, military and civilians. Stalin said as much, USSR was reporting this number to the UN at the time, and on top of that all the planning agencies in USSR operated off figures supporting Stlain's claim. You don't like it? You are spouting a Nazi propaganda, it's shit very close to what they were printing on their leaflets to the Soviets.

Sad times for antistalinists, eh? It turns out that left wing deviations unvariably become the right wing ones.

>>682528
market price for oil is too expensive for the average person in Kazakhstan to purchase so the government brings the price down with subsidies. Government decided to remove price controls on new years and sell oil at market price domestically which doubled the price of petrol overnight. Riots ensue in response. Das it.

So what's happened? The Russians assumed direct control?

>>686705
What the fuck, why is it China's fault that Khruschev started destalinisation, and China didn't follow? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? USSR in 1950s, while China was still friendly, was still run in a lot of ways by stalinists, so, they forced the transfer of technology to China. As well as did Cuba's missile crisis, as well as squashed fascist uprising in Hungary. Khruschev at every opportunity did the opposite, he surrendered the opportunity to put missiles in Cuba and set naval bases there, he was "waiting" in Hungary, he was becoming friendly to fascistic Tito - against Albania, even. It culminated under Brezhnev in crazy anti-China propaganda like retarded shit about backyard furnaces and Chinese killing all sparrows and getting forced to import them from USSR, lol, as well as more real shit like USSR trying to conquer Damansky island, as well as USSR supporting AMERICANS-STARTED TRADE EMBARGO OF CHINA, depriving China of market access when China was doing it's industrialization. Imagine fucking that, what imperialists did to USSR in 1920-30s, when USSR had to beg for fair trade with the West, USSR did the same shit to China in 1960-80s. Guess fucking what, China escaped this shit with opening up to USA. Why the fuck NOT SURRENDERING to USSR's pressure - denial of markets, propaganda, etc etc - is now a sin?

>>686658
>China and the USA on the same side

Lolno, go and read history books.

>All major capitalist states are hegemons in waiting.

So what? In waiting is not the same shit as being one. Utilizing contradictions between capitalists is a valid tactic, as shown by both Lenin and Stalin and Mao as well which allowed communists to achieve gains. Supporting weaker capitalist nation to expose capitalism itself and to win victories is totally fine.

>No, since Japan is a satellite of the US.

Oh wow, "satellite"! Does that mean you will support a US satellite trying to win it's freedom from USA? Or are you going to mistakenly keep quoting Lenin saying that both are the same shit, and free Japan will just become the new hegemon?

Your reasoning is this fucking thin. It doesn't take much effort to deconstruct you.

>No we need to form independent communist organizations, build worker's power, practice revolutionary defeatism, and show solidarity with communists around the world.

Yes, that's what I said - safeguard American hegemony. You will be destroying USA's competitors while leftists in USA will fail at everything, as always. So, the result will be as expected

>>686742
>What the fuck, why is it China's fault that Khruschev started destalinisation, and China didn't follow?
It's China's fault that they allowed ultimately minor disputes to critically endanger the entire socialist project. The Soviets contributed to the split as well, but it was the Chinese who formalized it. Ultimately the entire dispute was pointless and moronic. The only people who benefitted were the Americans, especially when China started actively helping them.
>As well as did Cuba's missile crisis, as well as squashed fascist uprising in Hungary. Khruschev at every opportunity did the opposite
Wtf are you talking about? Khruschev was literally the one who suppressed the uprising in Hungary and put missiles in Cuba in the first place.
>he was "waiting" in Hungary
Him and the entire politburo, however it was actually him who pushed them to reverse this policy and take decisive action against Nagy. It's all crystal clear if you read the politburo's meeting notes from that incident.
>he was becoming friendly to fascistic Tito
Ah yes, Tito, famous sympathizer with fascism. He was famously friendly with the Ustase, he even gave them all a comfy place to live at the bottom of a coal mine.
>It culminated under Brezhnev in crazy anti-China propaganda
As opposed to in China, where they only offered sane, measured critiques like how the USSR was "a regime of the Hitler type."
>Why the fuck NOT SURRENDERING to USSR's pressure - denial of markets, propaganda, etc etc - is now a sin?
<How is actively aiding US imperialism to destroy the USSR and Eastern Bloc a sin?
>>686745
>Lolno, go and read history books.
The both backed Pinochet, the Mujahideen, Khmer Rouge, UNITA, etc. They were objectively on the same side in most confrontations after 1975.
>Utilizing contradictions between capitalists is a valid tactic
It is, but that isn't what I'm criticizing. Independent communist organizations can leverage inter-imperialist rivalries to their benefit sure, but this can only be done with the understanding that all capitalist powers are our enemies. The Bolsheviks took German money, but they weren't under any illusions that Germany was less of a threat to socialism than the Tsar was. They still actively called for and wherever possible worked towards the destruction of the German Empire. They didn't go around running cover for German imperial interests or the German bourgeoisie.
>Does that mean you will support a US satellite trying to win it's freedom from USA?
I would, but only insofar as such a thing would benefit the communist movement. That's a separate issue from how contradictions within anti-Western capitalist states should be handled and approached by communists. If worker unrest erupts in a non-Western capitalist state, then our loyalty is to the proles, not the local bourgeoisie. Or at the very least we should defer to local communists on the issue.
>free Japan will just become the new hegemon?
Once Japan is free the bourgeois Japanese government will become just as much our enemy as the US. It would have been reasonable for communists to support Japan's modernization in the 19th century, and it's efforts to resist Western encroachment. It would have been insane to support Japan's own imperialist designs in the early 20th century on the grounds that it was displacing the European colonial powers, or for Japanese communists to practice anything other than revolutionary defeatism.
>You will be destroying USA's competitors while leftists in USA will fail at everything, as always.
So let's get this straight. Revolution in the imperial core is impossible because first world leftists are impotent, and revolution in the periphery is also impossible because doing so would empower American hegemony. So in other words, you're just a defeatist and capitalist realist. You're just making excuses for SPD-tier opportunism.

Well over the course of 6 threads and thousands of replies, opinions were had.

>>686763
i love how everyone here is so detached from reality that they can't even identify why the riots are happening despite the fact it's painfully easy to find out. Mfs out here saying "why is this happening" when everyone and their dog is screaming in the streets about how the price of oil doubled overnight.

MOVE OVER MAOTARDS AND DENGTURDS
THE REAL ANALYSIS BEGINS NOW
Fucking hell, I hate youtube for triying to choke me with imperial socdem shit
Kazhakstan- the evolution of the Russian narrative:
By Adam something, Brussels lover extraordinaire
2nd of January: Kazakhs start protesting due to the gov't increasing fuel prices, which quickly turns into a general protest against corruption, the one-party system, president for life, etc.

5th of January: the Kazakh dictator asks for foreign (Russian) military intervention.

Putin's spokesman denies this: "No. We are convinced that our Kazakh friends can solve their internal problems on their own. It is important that no one interferes from the outside."


6th of January: Russian forces arrive to Kazakhstan to "stabilize the situation". In exchange for their help, the Kazakh dictator agreed to the following:
- recognizing the annexation of Crimea
- restoring Russian as the second official language
- providing Russia with military bases
- autonomy for Russian minorities

Thus Kazakhstan becomes a quasi-puppet state under Russian control. Old habits die hard.

Sources (right click > translate):
https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/01/5/7319551/
https://www.unian.ua/world/u-kazahstan-pryamuye-kontingent-odkb-novini-svitu-11663347.html
https://www.unian.ua/world/u-kazahstan-pribuli-pershi-rosiyski-viyskovi-zi-skladu-odkb-video-novini-svitu-11663881.html
https://www.yeniakit.com.tr/haber/rusya-yardim-etmek-icin-4-maddelik-sart-sundu-bir-tek-kazakistanin-tapusunu-istemedikleri-kaldi-1614414.html

>>686513
it's a Marxist Leninist party.

>>686068
It's in the IMCWP same as your beloved Dengist Party of China if you're playing that card. not a Trotskyist.

>>686888
>6th of January: Russian forces arrive to Kazakhstan to "stabilize the situation". In exchange for their help, the Kazakh dictator agreed to the following:
>recognizing the annexation of Crimea
>restoring Russian as the second official language
>providing Russia with military bases
>autonomy for Russian minorities
And for a moment I was starting to believe that feline retard or schizohat about the possibility of a "Russian imperialism" ever existing post-1917. Well, here is your Russian imperialism: Poootin will come and…. make Kazakhs speak more Russian! Muhahahaha!!!

Any seizure of assets? You know, like privatization. The thing that the Americans were able to achieve from the other side of the world with a couple of well-placed agents and sufficient glowmoney in an another formerly semi-sovereign post-Soviet country (Ukraine).

The era of competing imperialist powers is long over. Everything that can be seized has been seized a long time ago. Imperialism is maintained by America through its leadership of the global financial system with the EU imperialist bloc only existing as a complementary part of it. Russia is a loser in this system and all Putin can do is to use one of the remaining assets of the glorious USSR (a strong army) to engage in some nationalist dickwaving that will boost his approval ratings with little additional benefits and maybe keep the communists out of office a little bit longer.

So do we have a group consensus yet on whether this is a color revolution or not?

>>687232
Fuck you group consensus. Read the threads, the sources and make up your own conclusion. I personally believe it was an organic uprising out of legitimate grievances

The Socialist Party of Latvia expresses support and solidarity to the labor collectives of Kazakhstan, who once again spoke out against the endless rise in prices, mass layoffs, repression against activists of the labor and trade union movement.

The workers' movement of many thousands has embraced hundreds of mining and metallurgical enterprises in a number of regions of the country. In the course of rallies, pickets and strikes, which began in December of the past year, workers present to the authorities perfectly justified economic, social and political demands that have been accumulating over the past thirty years.

We categorically protest against the one-sided and tendentious coverage of events in Kazakhstan by the official media. The picture presented to the public of the orgy of marauders, murderers and pogromists unleashed by provocateurs deliberately hides rallies, pickets and strikes, in which thousands of workers participate with clearly formulated demands.

The authorities ignore the opinion of the workers. The ruling regime banned the Communist Party, the Socialist Movement of Kazakhstan, liquidated independent trade unions, and imprisoned the most active representatives of the left, workers' and trade union movements. The working people are deprived of the opportunity to fully, on legal grounds, seek the realization of their interests, to influence the adoption of political decisions.

We are in solidarity with the demands of the workers of Kazakhstan:

- To dismiss the incumbent president and all Nazarbayev officials

- Release all political prisoners and end repression against workers and trade unionists

- Abolish anti-labor and anti-union laws that deprive workers of the right to form independent trade unions and political parties

- Satisfy a package of economic and social requirements, including increasing wages, ending the practice of mass layoffs of workers, ensuring the safety of workplaces, reducing the retirement age

- To nationalize, under the control of labor collectives, the entire mining and large-scale industry of the country

- To lift the ban on the activities of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan and the Socialist Movement of Kazakhstan

Power to labor, not capital!

http://socialismkz.info/?p=26845

>>687063
>Russian imperialism" ever existing post-1917.
The Russian Federation isn't the RSFSR, get fucking real.

Craig Murray has a good article on Kazakhstan today:
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/01/12/craig-murray-what-kazakhstan-isnt/