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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.687554[Last 50 Posts]

http://www.zzwave.com/plaboard/posts/3967516.shtml

The news wants to make China look communists so don't pretend this is a lie.

China will never go socialist under current CPC you have better odds winning the lotto.

 No.687559

I think Study times is mainland Chinese news so you didn't need to put that disclaimer in.

 No.687560

>>687554
are you the same maoist bot or are you another anon entirely?
>China will never go socialist under current CPC
Half truth. China can be socialist rn, it's just that the only thing that hinders are China's border disputes and excessive nationalism.

 No.687561

No surprise from the anti communists

 No.687567

based

 No.687570

Rip

 No.687576

“I read a lot of articles online … and have developed this adoration of Mao Zedong thoughts, and a strong attraction to socialism in Mao’s era,” Yu told the Post in a telephone interview.

“So I have begun to understand and learn more about Mao Zedong … and made friends with a few young people who love red culture,” he said referring to leftist ideas.

“I feel proud of what I did … and it would be an honour if I have to go to jail for promoting Mao’s thoughts, which are about equality for everyone and [are] being embraced by a lot of people now.”

Deng Yuwen, a former editor of Study Times, an official of the Communist Party’s top academy, said the sentencing showed that Beijing would not tolerate ultra-leftists if they went too far and their actions were deemed to be destabilising before the party’s all-important national congress expected to be held later this year.

“It’s very clear that Beijing would not allow the ultra-leftists, or the liberals, to undermine the regime’s stability,” said Deng, who is now based in the United States and is an independent researcher on China’s politics.

 No.687648

imagine the CPC outlawing mautism.

 No.687653

Gud

 No.687658

No one cares. Post this on China general or MLM general.

 No.687659

>>687554
<Dengists being against Maoists
Imagine my shock.

 No.687662

File: 1641953249516.png (29.66 KB, 640x328, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.687802

Maoists took part in the initial stages of the recent protests, before it was glowed to hell and back. For whatever the press' word is worth, Maosist take refuge there.

 No.687809

quelle suprise, capitalists jailing communists

 No.687820

>>687554
>China will never go socialist under current CPC you have better odds winning the lotto.
It never did under Mao either, so not a big surprise.

 No.687826

>>687820
Actually it did.

 No.687829

>>687648
while it is the CCP who was once led by Mao of which he himself is the lord of mautism.
I guess Xi considers Mao to be China's worst leader too? Or am I wrong?

 No.687858

>>687554
>jailed over articles 'smearing former Chinese leaders'

Trying to attack Stalin with Lenin -eeeeeeh- Deng with Mao? Not gonna happen, buddy

 No.687859

>>687829
You are wrong. Trots got jailed for revisionism, trying to attack Deng with Mao ala what Yakovlev in USSR did intentionally and strategically.

 No.687860


 No.687862

>>687554
Didnt Deng think that Maoism was left-ultra deviation?

 No.687866

>>687862
The CPC in the 80s *declared* that Mao made ultra-leftist errors.

 No.687872

>>687554
This is good, dogmatic reactionism isn't marxism

 No.687873

China is capitalist

 No.687875

File: 1641965271052.jpg (55.74 KB, 634x501, landlord btfo.jpg)

>>687554
Based. Dengoids will never be communists, China is a red porky shithole that's used as a source of cheap labor by western porkies.
They need to landlord the billionaires and then we can talk.

 No.687907


 No.687939

>>687860
What is this guys name. Can't find. Help me frens

 No.687944

>>687554
>cites South China Morning Post
>literally owned by billionaire who got BTFO’d by the CPC
>no other source besides South China Morning Post

 No.687950

>>687662
The same can be said about the western maotists in this board.
And no, I'm not white

 No.687957


 No.687986

Maoists are the trots of the 21st century lmao
Get banned retard

 No.687987

Based

Fuck Maoists

 No.687989

>>687662
spic actually

 No.688000

>>687986
Two of the three remaining ML states were basically founded by maoists lol keep seething

 No.688003

>>688000
Mailo wasn't a maoist
Mald more delusional gonzalo fanatic

 No.688008

>>688000
Which ML states were founded in the 21st century?

 No.688011

>>688008
Which ML states don't exist anymore in the 21st century? Yes, the ones which weren't made with Mao Zedong thought in mind. And no billionaires like Assad or Lukashenko aren't communists.

 No.688015

>>688011
Maoists never founded any state. Mao, Hoxha, Kim Il-Sung, Ho chi Minh, Fidel Castro, etc were MLs who later developed their own theories. Mao's own theories were known as Mao Zedong Thought. Maoism (MLM) wasn't a thing until years after his death, it was founded by Peruvian communists in the 80s. I'm guessing most of the hate against maoists on this board lately is against adherents of chairman Gonzalo (leader of the Shining Path).

 No.688032

>>688026
The video just completely unravels towards the end. "this view only focuses on the phenomenon but ignores the essence" is idealist drivel.

 No.688034

>>687860
This guy reminds me of a monk discussing doctrinal a theological stuff.
Just like we had heretics and schisms of Christianity in the Middle Age, the same thing has happened now with communism.
They took the grand Marxist system of thought, based on logical conclusions, brought it into the pure abstract real only to blend it in order to accomodate their wishful thinking. A hundred of different Marxisms were created and destroyed the movement of change reducing it into a parody of itself.

It's kind of funny but also kind of sad.

 No.688180

Not surprising. China is capitalist.

 No.688181

>>688008
>The question that silences all tankoids

 No.688230

>>688015
You're mostly correct.
If Sison's line were the prevalent MLM line people would still criticize it but not as harshly and violently as Gonzaloid cringe.
Gonzalo is a plague on MLM (and on the wider Marxist milieu in Latin America).

 No.688249

File: 1641995101726.jpg (833.75 KB, 1108x1364, 769fa3d59ee7326.jpg)

Ultras be seething

 No.688261

>>688008
>Which ML states were established in 1920-30s? Haha, ML is a one-off thing!
>Which ML states were established by themselves without Soviet interference after WW2? ML states are cheating!
>Which ML states were established in 1980s? See, Vietnam and Indochina were a last historical mistake!

I mean, sure, 1990s were dissapointing and a setback, but overall, the ML trend is positive. Unlike ultra-leftists, which can exist only with the help of imperialist states.

 No.688263

>>688181
>Implying

 No.688269

>>687662
Spics are honorary Yakubians

 No.688292

An ultra mong is still a mong even if he covers himself in seven layers of maoism.

 No.688295

So what? Stalin purged Trotskyists even though the latter had claimed to be the true heirs to Lenin. Back to the baby boiler thugs and other historical vulgar dogmatic clownery.

 No.688299

>>687860
>that video
>gets to the most important and interesting part about growing influence of capital in China
>immediately cuts off.
Is this a parody? What fucking unimaginable? idiot edited this video?

 No.688312

>>688261
This. Ultras may oppose imperialism but the material effect of their actions only serves to prop up the propagation of imperialism. Useful idiots

 No.688317

>>688008
>Which ML states were founded in the 21st century?
Don't be so hastened yet, we're only 22 years in the century and we already had two economic crises, the collapse of order in the Middle East and a pandemic.

 No.688321

>>687554
NOOOOOOOO YOU CANT ASK FOR FULL PLANNING IN 2022 THIS IS FOR ULTRAS THE REAL POSITION IS TO LET PORKY ENRICH THEMSELVES UNTIL THE HEAT DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE NOOOOOOOOO

 No.688322

>>688318
Are you 12?

 No.688397

>>688249
China's growth slowed down after the market reforms
>>688321
wow so true

 No.688402

>>688397
According to Western economists*

They also say that China's growth rate increased after the market reforms. They choose either dependent on whether they need to bash China or praise the markets. Reality, though, shows a DIFFERENT kind of growth was achieved with the market reforms, all the while planned part of the economy - SOEs - never slowed their growth rates from Mao's period.

 No.688408

>>688402
citations please

 No.689053

>>688408
Read mises

 No.689060

File: 1642037140943.png (137.87 KB, 588x532, 20220112_202210.png)


 No.689270

>>689060
shay, were you born this way or did your milk have a lot of lead in it?

 No.689281

>>688034
You could see it that way, but the Maoists who look to a "pure" socialism which was betrayed and corrupted by the heretics seem more "religious" to me.

>>688299
Oh sorry here's the longer version.

 No.689400

Maoists deserve repression, especially when it's coming from actual communists.

OP do you bitch and moan about Trotsky repressing the anarchists too? Or Stalin repressing the Trots?

 No.689419

>>687554
As I’ve stated many times, Dengist China is a Capitalist, Social Imperialist, and Fascist state that must be opposed by all authentic Socialists. Anyone who tells you to take sides in Inter-Imperialist conflicts is a Arch-Revisionist and Crypto-Fascist who desires to uphold the Global Capitalist-Imperialist System. LONG LIVE MARXISM-LENINISM-MAOISM! DOWN WITH FASCISM, LIBERALISM, AND REVISIONISM! DOWN WITH U$, EUROPEAN, RUSSIAN, AND CHINESE IMPERIALISM! WORKERS AND OPPRESSED NATIONS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

 No.689420

China is so based holy shit

 No.689424

>>689420
This better be a Ironic post, because if you think Anti-Communism (ie. Arresting Maoists) is “Based”, then you need to GTFO and go back to /pol/.

 No.689431

>>689419
You are right.

 No.689433

>>689424
If you had been alove during the Cold War you would have been a trot bashing the revisionist Stalinist dictatorship and supporting le based left wing trade union Solidarity. You deserve to be perma banned for your idiocy and shitposting. As soon as your first bana expired you immediately began shilling against China again in coordination with obvious glow posts.

 No.689438

>>689436
Modern China doesn't. The fact that you think every nation is permanently stuck in the 1970s is your own problem not anyone else's.

 No.689443

>>689442
The US hasn't changed. China has. All anti-China arguments are fucking terrible. It's either regurgitate Western talking points, argue about the Sino-Soviet split which has no relevance anymore, or outright making shit up.

 No.689450

>>689433
Unless I misread the rules of Leftypol, their is nothing that says you can’t oppose Dengist China, which makes sense considering the vast majority of the Far-Left (Maoists, Hoxhaists, Trotskyists, Left Communists, and Anarchists) is Anti-Dengist, with the only tendency that is an exception to this being Revisionist “Marxist-Leninists”. It’s also worth noting that in response to my recent Six-week ban I have adopted more rational stances on Covid-19, Climate Change, and LGBTQIA+ issues. Finally it is maximum hypocrisy to accuse a historical me of supporting the U$ Imperialist puppet “Solidarity” movement that was supported by Dengist China itself, LOL.

 No.689456

>>689452
Nice non-argument.
When would a socialist ever argue that governments/nations cannot adopt changes in policy? Never. But according to you they are eternal. GTFO this board you're not left wing.

 No.689457

>>689450
"Hoxhaists" don't fucking exist and Hoxha himself turned on Mao.
Trots are the same pro-imperialist wreckers that they have been for over a century now.
Same with "left-coms"
Anarchism is not Marxist.
The fact that you understand none of this but still group all these factions under "far left" proves that you are a fraud and a pseud who doesn't read, doesn't research, and just formulates opinions out of your ass. kys.
>Solidarity supported by Deng
Post proof or get banned for yet more lies.

 No.689461

>>689459
A "change in foreign policy" would mean the US stopped intervening REGARDLESS of country.
You know, like how modern China doesn't intervene and hasn't fought on foreign soil in fucking over 40 years?
The US still intervenes. They still bomb people with drones. They STILL fund politicians and parties more amendable to their interests, and they STILL surveil fucking everyone, even their "allies".

 No.689463

>>689462
>They do it less than in the past
<Attempted regime change in Hong Kong
<Attempted regime change Belarus
<Continued interference in Russia
<Continued military support and aid to Ukraine
<Successful regime change in Bolivia
<Attempted regime change in Venezuela
<Drone strikes in Somalia
<Drone strikes in Yemen
All this is from the past 2 years ALONE. kys.

 No.689466

>>687554
>some ultras in this board when asked when they are going to start their revolution
>some ultras in this board when it is needed efforposts to find strategies, solutions, and descriptions of the problems in the west that has never had a socialist revolution.

 No.689469

>>689466 (me)
>same ultras in this board when they see some (like 5) random ultras arrested in jail in China facing up to 1 year arrested in a country of 1.4 billion

 No.689471

>>689469 (me)
>same ultras in this board when they see these three posts and start to deflect about their revolutions.

 No.689482

>>689457
All the tendencies I listed are universally considered to be on the Far-Left of the political spectrum, and with the exception of the Revisionist “Marxist-Leninists” (parties that are members of the IMCWP, the so-called Revisionist “International”, most of which are either Crypto-Liberal or Crypto-Fascist), all these tendencies are Anti-Dengist, with Maoists being the only tendency currently waging Armed Revolution against Capitalism (the Protracted People’s Wars in India, The Philippines, Turkey, and Peru). Finally, by parroting all of the U$ foreign policy stances during the late Cold War (to the point that they were under the U$ Nuclear umbrella), Dengist China for all intents and purposes was on the same side as and indirectly aiding the Polish Solidarity movement the helped collapse the Eastern Bloc.

 No.689492

>>687554
>The news wants to make China look communists
What do you mean by the "news" exactly? Please tell me how SCMP isn't part of the "news". Sure, it isn't Western MSM, which is purely about spreading the most blatant lies and slander about China, but it definitely represents a right deviation within Chinese society. Ffs it's based in Hong Kong and is owned by Alibaba Group. Tell me, will Jack Ma lead the Maoist revolt and institute a 2nd Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution? Left deviationists right deviationists - one struggle against currently existing socialism.

Anyway, the same kind of news about the Chinese government arresting "Maoists" was circulated by outlets like BBC some time ago. I put the "Maoist" in quotation marks because this could literally mean everyone to the left of the current CPC party line. Mao has always remained a greatly respected figure both in Chinese politics and general society and the CPC still upholds Mao Zedong Thought and displays his picture on Tiananmen Square. Will the members of the Chinese government start arresting themselves because they are upholding a political regime which still holds Mao in great regard?

<Deng Yuwen, a former editor of Study Times, an official mouthpiece of the Communist Party’s top academy, said the sentencing showed that Beijing would not tolerate ultra-leftists if they went too far and their actions were deemed to be destabilising before the party’s all-important national congress expected to be held later this year.

<“It’s very clear that Beijing would not allow the ultra-leftists, or the liberals, to undermine the regime’s stability,” said Deng, who is now based in the United States and is an independent researcher on China’s politics.
Again, the Chinese government isn't jailing people who support Mao. They are jailing people who openly attack the party line, whether from the left or the right. And keep in mind that this party line has definitely shifted to the left, with "Maoists" being given a certain space and a role to attack libshits who have infested Chinese society. Chinese academia for example went through a thorough cleansing of these dangerous liberal elements. Obviously you still can't attack the party line as a leftist, but looking at the way things currently stand the position of this line will keep shifting to the left.

If you haven't realized already, the enemies of socialism will keep directly attacking socialism and at the same time empower people who are pretending to be defenders of socialism who attack real socialism for not confirming to their ideas. See for example Chuang, the authentic voice of Chinese proletariat run by a white anarchist from Seattle who uses flowery leftcom language to attack Chinese socialism and publishes articles written by literal glowies about the so called "Uyghur genocide". Just like how back in the day Khruschev's slandering of Stalin was happily accepted by revisionists inside the socialist bloc and by eurocoms and virulent anti-communists in the West.

 No.689528

>>689492
We should start to label SMCP as misleading or simply irrelevant source of information of China, tbh.

 No.689583

>>689450
>I have adopted more rational stances on Covid-19, Climate Change
Extremely cringe, King Lear. How has your covid take changed?

 No.689614

>South China Morning Post
okay…

 No.689638

>>689419
Nice larp slogans fanatic

 No.689666

>>689492
>Obviously you still can't attack the party line as a leftist
That assumes the party line is correct. Honestly the application of this kind of strict democratic centralism and anti-factionalism to post-revolutionary societies was a mistake.
>If you haven't realized already, the enemies of socialism will keep directly attacking socialism and at the same time empower people who are pretending to be defenders of socialism who attack real socialism for not confirming to their ideas.
So do you consider all criticism of countries calling themselves socialist to be glow? Because that's retarded.

 No.689674

File: 1642084073044-0.jpg (103.24 KB, 768x768, 1638846120459.jpg)

>>689492
>“It’s very clear that Beijing would not allow the ultra-leftists, or the liberals, to undermine the regime’s stability,”
Xi is bringing back Centrist Marxism

 No.689692

>>689419
Nice larp slogans fanatic

 No.689693

>>689666
>That assumes the party line is correct
Trot detected. Into the trashcan of history you go

 No.689911

>>689693
>Trotskyism is when you doubt the infallibility of the party line

 No.690039

>Implying communists have never arrested other communists they disagreed strongly with

 No.690058

>>689911
Yes, unironically. Party line is determined democratically in debates, doubting worker democracy is basically the definition of trotskyism/opportunism.

 No.690061

>>689911
>>690058
Or in other words, freedom of debating, but no freedom of sabotaging the democratic decision that was made. It is fairly obvious that it's a good thing, all one need to do to realize that is to look at US response at Covid, how it murdered millions, simply because some retards kept sabotaging the democratic decision.

 No.690064

>>689466
>>689469
This, holy shit.

 No.690076

File: 1642105072861.jpg (491.95 KB, 1200x675, covergn.jpg)


 No.690079

>>689583
I’m still unvaccinated due to my Natural Immunity and believe that it is exaggerated (I still believe it is closer in severity to the 1968 Asian Flu then the 1918-1920 Spanish Flu, due to the fact the latter caused numerous deaths in the young and healthy that has not been seen with Covid-19, along with the fact that the Covid-19 death toll is significantly less then 100 million), I just am more nuanced in how I describe it in that I recognize it is a severe threat (more then the seasonal Flu) to the Elderly and Very Sick (The measures should have been designed to protect these groups instead of pretending everyone was equally at risk). To be honest, it’s not that my stance has really changed that much but the combination of the fact that I don’t want to get banned (The mods explicitly stated “Covid denial” was a reason for my bans) and I’ve grown sick of the topic (The Virus/Vaccine debate has gotten rather “Old Hat” to me) and would rather discuss more interesting things, LOL.

 No.690098

>>689270
I am increasingly mentally unstable and i cant do anything about it

 No.690142

>>687809
>uhhh actually the communist party is anticommunist
giga cope
its communists jailing communists, like every fucking time before

it never changes

 No.690156

i'm almost convinced most anti maoists on this board are maoists falseflagging to make non maoists look bad

 No.690157

I am sure they deserved it unironically.

 No.690159

>>690098
Just lay off the HRT.

 No.690166

File: 1642111871331.jpg (56.92 KB, 400x604, pla.jpg)

>>687567
>>687653
>>687986
>>687987
>>688249
>>688295
>>689400
>>689420
>>690157

Disgusting attitude. Imagine thinking Chinese billionaires are leading the proletariat anywhere other than a life of misery.

 No.690168

>>690166
cry more

 No.690169

>>690166
Chinese billionaires don’t run the country.

 No.690175

>>690166
terminally online larpers are so desperate for a country to root for they will gladly side with capitalists against other communists

 No.690184

>>690079
That's fair, I feel ya

 No.690191

>>690166
Maotists won't lead the proletariat anywhere but a life of misery fighting a never ending conflict in some shitty jungle.

>>690175
Terminally online larper so desperate to root for "pure" communism he will support failed causes that will go nowhere.

 No.690201

>>690191
Why don’t you Dengists just drop the LARP and admit that you are Capitalists, Imperialists, and Fascists?

 No.690203

>>690175
Or maybe it's that they're bourgeois themselves and they're scared of communism.

Communism still haunts bourgeois types. Always has, always will. The Mao period, especially the Cultural Revolution, scares them more than practically any other time except the USSR from 1917-1922 or 1929-1953.

 No.690211

>>690191
it doesn't matter if they are destined to win or lose, supporting reaction against those who risk their freedom and lives to bring justice to the workers is as scummy as it gets

 No.690216

>>690191
>misery fighting a never ending conflict in some shitty jungle.
Countless tens of millions of workers gladly died for the cause of communism in the last 150 years. And countless more of us will have to die. But to not be a slave, it's worth it.
Better than slaving away for Jack Ma for 50 years anyway.
If you fight, you might lose, but if you don't fight you'll definitely lose.

 No.690246

>>690216
Based Take Comrade.

 No.690256

>>690166
Spitting fax.

 No.690257

>>690191
<Supporting reaction just because most likely they'll stay on top

I've got my criticism of the CPP and i believe Gonzaloids are a cancer but this is cringe AF.

 No.690264

>>688015
>Maoists never founded any state
The modern Republic of Nepal in 2007

 No.690280

>>690201
Don't care, I still support China against NATO.

 No.690287

>>690264
A bourgeois republic founded by a compromise between the liberals and the maoists.
Ending in said maoists being denounced by the other maoists.
>>690216
But you don't have to commut voluntarism and end up being cannon fodder for 50 years or advocating that it is viable to go to the jungles in the inperial core, have some sense.
It's not like if you are not going to the mountains you are betraying the labour movement.
>>690166
Chinese billionaires can't even think outside the box the party allows them to do, they are not the ones who lead the nation but the party is.
Ffs the things I have to say for this ultras

As other poster have said, it is not the first time a communist country has arrested other Communists.
When the glow tried to do something with Cuba last year some trots got arrested (kek, for good measures),etc etc

 No.690848

>>690058
>Party line is determined democratically in debates
Only around 7% of China's population are CPC members, so even if it's decided upon democratically among the party members, this doesn't really amount to much from the perspective of the working class and peasantry as a whole. It certainly doesn't mean that party should be exempt from criticism from the general population and especially other communists.

 No.690947

File: 1642170850322.png (238.81 KB, 477x318, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.690994

>>690848
communism is when everyone is in the party

 No.691006

>>690994
Socialism is the rule of the working class via proletarian democracy. A system where only 7% of the population gets a say in policy and the rest are not allowed to criticize those decisions is not a proletarian democracy.

 No.691010

File: 1642175219767.jpg (224.36 KB, 546x500, maoist.jpg)

>>690287
Удивительно, как этот сайт скатился до полного антикоммунизма. Англоязычные марксисты - дегенераты с пеной у рта при мысли о Китае
Китай ускоренно движется в 22-й век и оставит всех этих маутистов-третьемирян насорную корзину истории.

 No.691023

>>691006
>A system where only 7% of the population gets a say in policy and the rest are not allowed to criticize those decisions
Good thing that's not China then.

 No.691030

File: 1642176869096.jpg (13.73 KB, 400x400, 1632705198827.jpg)


 No.691034

>>691023
Exactly. If dumb retards like >>691006 had any understanding of China outside of western propaganda then they would not be talking all this shit. They could at least speak to a Chinese person and ask them about how politics works in their country, but they would rather instead peddle shit about China (the same talking points shared by fat charlatans like Jason Unruhue, Vowsh/breadtube, democratic party, etc)

 No.691064

>>691023
Then why are they throwing Maoists in jail? Defenders of China's policy in this very thread have described it in this way here >>689492
>Again, the Chinese government isn't jailing people who support Mao. They are jailing people who openly attack the party line
So in other words, the party line is determined "democratically" by a small portion of the population, and people who attack that line are then thrown jail.

 No.691081

>>691064
Reactionaries who attack the state in bad faith should be executed, giving these people prison sentences is a show of mercy and good will

 No.691083

>>691081
Sure Anon, Maoists are reactionaries. Writing critical articles is "attacking the state."

 No.691091

>>691083
If you oppose the socialist state, then yes, you ARE a reactionary, I dont give a shit about the pretenses or justifications you use. I know as an anarchist loyalty is a hard thing to understand, but try using basic cognition for once…oh wait, then you wouldn't be an anarchist lol

 No.691093

>>690287
>But you don't have to commut voluntarism and end up being cannon fodder for 50 years or advocating that it is viable to go to the jungles in the inperial core, have some sense.

Armed revolution like the CPC and PLA did is the only route.

If Mao and Chinese communists had this attitude from the 1920s-1940s, the PRC would never have even been formed.

>>690287
>the party allows them to do

one which has been led by capitalist roaders since the 1980s

There's a reason the likes of Deng were so heavily targeted in the Cultural Rev.

 No.691096

>>691091
>If you oppose the socialist state, then yes, you ARE a reactionary
Is China reactionary for opposing the Soviet Union then? Moreover, what constitutes "opposition"? According to the article in OP these Maoists were arrested for writing articles critical or some of China's past leaders. You really think this warrants imprisonment? I would say that writing critical articles isn't nearly as bad as sending weapons to anti-communist terrorists like China did in the 80s.

 No.691102

>>691096
The Soviet Union was knee deep in the pocket of capital following Stalin's assassination and the Khrushchev coup, so just the opposite; sticking with the Soviet Union after that point would have been an act of treason towards the working class. And yes, I'd say attempts to destabilize the state are worthy of imprisonment, no matter how ineffectual it is. If someone plans to crash a plane into a building, they get punished for it no matter how far along on their plan they are, so too with sedition like this.

 No.691124

File: 1642181203619.jpeg (181.94 KB, 1242x1248, cb0.jpeg)

>>691102
>The Soviet Union was knee deep in the pocket of capital following Stalin's assassination and the Khrushchev coup
Then why did the US ally with China against the USSR? Why did NATO continue to direct aggression primarily against the USSR? Why did the USSR continue to back communist and national liberation movements around the world? Why did China back openly anti-communist groups and regimes like the Mujahideen, UNITA, and Pinochet?
>And yes, I'd say attempts to destabilize the state
So you consider all criticism to be destabilization? China really must be fragile if a few articles post an existential threat to its stability.
>If someone plans to crash a plane into a building, they get punished for it
Because writing articles is exactly like literal terrorism lmao.

 No.691136

File: 1642181764417.png (98.5 KB, 499x287, momento.png)

All sorts of people support Mao, even people who totally misundestand the guy.

"Ji Zuos" aren't very popular there either, even in some New Left clubs.

It seems that the greatest shills of the "Mautism" of modern day are random Western kids that are more interested in the adventurism of violent LARP fantasy than actual socialist construction, which admittedly does happen to be more dull and ordinary.

 No.691152

>>691102
Attempts to destabilize the state and wreck the DotP just for the sake of culture is indeed stupid, and even modern Maoists in China are more critical of the GPCR than the firstoids that claim to uphold MLM.

 No.691197

>>691064
>Then why are they throwing Maoists in jail
ARE they throwing Maoists in general? Or just those five autistic retards that disrespect previous Chiense leaders and write propaganda against them? Shut the fuck up all posts under your flag are embarrassing garbage

 No.691203

>>691197
>ARE they throwing Maoists in general? Or just those five autistic retards that disrespect previous Chiense leaders and write propaganda against them?
If they are throwing people in jail for making Maoist criticisms of Chinese leaders then they are in practice persecuting Maoists in general, at least if they express their critiques of Chinese capitalism. Repressing a political movement for expressing its critiques is the same as repressing it as a whole.

 No.691212

>>691203
>are in practice persecuting Maoists in general
wud be based if true

 No.691213

>>691091
>If you oppose the socialist state, then yes, you ARE a reactionary

But what if the "socialist state" is socialist in words, but fascist in deed?

 No.691224

>>691136
China is building capitalism not socialism lmao

 No.691225

>>687554
>Mao
>socialism

 No.691236

>>687554
Socialism is when you say you're the ideological inheritor of one guy.

And the more governments persecute you for your retardation, the more socialist-er you are.

 No.691348

>>691213
Good thing China is socialist in both words and deeds. By wrangling in the patriotic bourgeoisie and making them subservient to the state, they are developing socialism and have already become the most powerful nation on earth

 No.691363

>>691348
>By wrangling in the patriotic bourgeoisie and making them subservient to the state
That was a goal of fascism.
The goal of communism is to eliminate the bourgeoisie as a class.

 No.691364

>>691363
Do you have brain damage? Do you think the bourgeoisie can be abolished over night?

 No.691388

>>691364
NTA but taking nearly a century to get rid of the bourgeoisie is a mighty long time, don't you think? lol
especially considering Xi said they have no intention of getting rid of the market reforms, so Socialism by 2050 is quite literally just Social Democracy

 No.691390

>>691388
lol lmao
never happened

 No.691393

>>691364
Overnight lol, it's been 73 years. And here's a fucking fact; in the 1970s the Chinese bourgeoisie was tiny. They curse and howl over the Mao period for a reason.

 No.691396

File: 1642193906039.png (345.14 KB, 507x598, she.png)

>>691390
https://archive.fo/J2U2M
I hate to be the one to break it to you

 No.691400

>>691396
socialism and markets - no contradiction!

 No.691403

>>691396
this doesn't say what you think it does

 No.691404

>>691363
The goal of fascism is to elevate the bourgeoisie, the bourgeoisie in China are ultimately subservient to state power, thus socialism. This isn’t hard

 No.691405

>>691400
I don't want to work in the People's Walmart with Socialist Chinese Characteristics for the New Age

 No.691406

>>691403
>nor should we return to the old path of a planned economy,” Xi told political advisers gathered in Beijing for their annual legislative sessions on Saturday, according to the official Xinhua news agency. He reiterated the government’s stance that markets should play a “decisive role” in the economy.
I don't see what I am misunderstanding

 No.691407

>>691400
I think I’ll let the leader of the most powerful nation on earth do the thinking for himself rather than rely on some western internet nerd

 No.691409

>>691406
this too has an expiration date

 No.691411

>>691405
Still way better than now, eh.

>>691407
I mean I'll be fair to Xi, if he's just trying to trick westoids into investing in China then he has to say there's no return to planned economics… Maybe still socialism by 2050?… Eh?

 No.691412

File: 1642194540258.png (7.76 KB, 240x240, ClipboardImage.png)

This shit is why I don’t care if China gets into trouble over Taiwan border disputes

THEY DUG A HOLE FOR THEMSELVES TO LIE IN THE MOMENT THEY OPENED UP MARKETS TO THE WORLD AND ALLOWED THE CAPIRALIST MODE OF PRODUCTION TO INCH THEM CLOSER TO IMPERIALISM JUST LIKE WHAT MARX SAID WOULD HAPPEN TO LITERALLY ANY STATE THAT ALLOWS CAPITALISM TO DEVELOP WITHOUT VIOLENT RESTRAINT

 No.691413

>>691407
>appeal to authority
C'mon bruh. By that logic Joe Biden is the most trustworthy man alive.

 No.691416

File: 1642194651462.png (407.41 KB, 475x517, fuck.png)

>>691411
>Still way better than now, eh.
No

 No.691417

>>691411
China is already socialist as explained, the goal is to further productive forces, encourage unity, and increase efficiency while guiding the third world away from NATO’s grip

 No.691420

>>691404
They are the state, they are the ruling class.

Dengism/Bukharinism = capitalist capitulation.

 No.691421

>>691416
I mean it's pretty obvious that Chynah is better than the USA

>>691417
Sounds kinda lame to me, but it is what it is

 No.691423

>>691413
Joe Biden isn’t even the one in charge of America, his a dribbling old fool that can’t even use the bathroom properly. The actual power brokers in America are highly competent, just evil

 No.691426

>>691409
I mean, I wish, but Xi made it pretty clear that they would NOT return to a planned economy, no? So either they're lying or staying a mixed economy forever. None of the Socialism by 2050 roadmaps mention anything related to socialism at all, even, they're all just national development. I'm sorry bro, but it quite literally is just social democracy

 No.691427

>>691420
Wrong, capitalism has capitulated to the interests of the state

 No.691428

>>691416
Being an eternal malcontent is not a basis for policy.
>>691426
Let's wait and see.

 No.691431

>>691091
>Sabocat anon
<Anarchist
How much of a newfag are you?

 No.691434

>>691431
ultra-left, anarchist what's the difference?

 No.691435

>>691364
>73 years
<Overnight

Sounding like Q retards when they kept saying that Trump would have returned and that there were left just "two more weeks" before the big happening.

 No.691436

>>691435
Nothing at all happened in all those years, it was all a mirage.

 No.691437

>>691434
<Every position criticizing me is ultra left
Words have meanings retard, and ultra left means like Bordiga-tier, not "He does not support 100% of what China does"

 No.691438

>>691348
>By wrangling in the patriotic bourgeoisie and making them subservient to the state

This is exactly why unironic fascists like Keith Woods or Cultured Thug like China.

 No.691440

>>691437
you can be ultra left without being a Bordigist, that's fucking stupid

 No.691441

>>691436
It happened that capitalism was restored indeed

 No.691442

One party large states in conflict with the outside world are more likely to dissolve than small multi party states at peace and generally well defended

I hope that if China ever falls the USA goes down with it

 No.691446

>>691423
Sure but that's not the point, what I meant is that someone being "in charge of the strongest country in the world" does not mean they are automatically right, and even less so socialist. Waving off criticism this way is just stupid

 No.691447

>>691434
I'm neither. I'm not even hostile to China as such. I think that socialists should be allowed to criticize and ostensibly socialist government without going to jail.

 No.691450

>>691440
If one considers ultra leftists in the sense Lenin considered them its practically Bordiga tier people (and some people following Rosa Luxemburg).
Any other definition is based just on vibes without any theoretical support.

 No.691451

>>691441
And then because of this alleged restoration it got manna from heaven to develop the country
This is the western narrative, you need to think about how that is.

 No.691456

>>691447
Lenin and the Soviets democratically decided that no, the very act of criticism without measure, criticism without responsibility, is an act of sabotage.

 No.691457

>>691447
>I'm not even hostile to China as such
That's nice, buddy

 No.691459

>>691447
These people have the idea of criticism that ALL and ANY criticism is a direct attack, without distinguishing between constructive criticism and destructive one.
The perfect recipe for immobilism and ossification, and the perfect climate for traitors like Khruschev to rise.

 No.691460

>>691456
i used to be big into criticism but I can see how a world of criticism without anything backing it up can lead to decay in a way. I don't know how to phrase it though, it seems like a society built on criticism doesn't really trust anything and we're at the state where the US is basically such asociety.

 No.691461

>>691442
>I hope that if China ever falls the USA goes down with it
Isn't that pretty much a given? Both countries economies are so intertwined that one of them shitting the bed would automatically put the other in a shit situation too, which would reshape global politics immensely. I just hope China wins in the current conflict because I am sick and tired of the Yankee world order

 No.691465

>>691456
>the very act of criticism without measure, criticism without responsibility
Wtf does that even mean?

 No.691467

>>691451
No, they developed their country by the hard and tough work of their working class, and in the meanwhile a new class of parasites has been rising taking profit from this same labor.
You don't get to a Gini index comparable to the Us without a class of parasites sucking the working class blood.

 No.691469

Critical support for CIA propaganda efforts against Chinese imperialism.

 No.691589

>>691456
Actually no, Khrushchevtards did that.

During the Lenin-Stalin period, anyone could criticise anyone.

 No.691610

>>691589
>Lenin era
Sure
>Stalin era
I mean….

 No.691635

>>691465
>Nooo I have to be allowed to publicly criticize the socialist government and its policies, and thus weaken it, fracture it and help the counterrevolutionaries!
It means you need to go back to /pol/, chinlet.(Bad faith rule, repeat offender)

 No.691668

>>691610
>b-but muh Purges
Yes, Stalin era, too.

 No.691674

>>691635
nice meme

 No.691677


 No.691690

>>691469
Although I agree, I'm also interested in how the Chinese government deals with these issues. Rebelliousness is a core value of leftists everywhere. Mao specifically called it out as a positive value too.
Now that a socialist government is in power, how does one deal with rebelliousness?

Rebelliousness in a democratic centralist organization is outright destructive and wrecker behavior.

Rebelliousness in the Chinese state? On one hand, the Chinese government is single handedly making the US shit its pants, but on the other, there is still a big room for improvement in work conditions. And China is arguably a huge democratic centralist org, from what I understand.

It's not an easy task.

 No.691697

>>691668
The diversity of opinion was significantly lower, though

 No.691708

>>691697
>caring for kulak or Black Hundreds opinions

 No.691933

>>691203
Not sequitur

 No.691936

>>691635
Exactly. People like haz are broken clocks but they are right in sharing your opinion. maoists are effectively tools of imperialists because their anti-AES activities and propaganda. The fact that maoists are themselves claiming to be anti imperialist in form doesnt matter when their actions in essence serve to propogate imperialism.
There is no fence to sit on, or third way. Either you are with the west, or the east.

 No.692048

>>691697
Says who, a purged trot?

Diversity of opinion was fucking fine. Purges don't affect diversity of opinions, they ENSURE that DEMOCRATIC DECISIONS MADE get DONE. That's why Stalin transformed USSR into a world power from the backwards European power - because he was overlooking real democracy working.

 No.692049

File: 1642223371736.jpg (145.69 KB, 768x574, honest adolf.jpg)

>>691407
>I think I’ll let the leader of the most powerful nation on earth do the thinking for himself rather than rely on some western nerd

 No.692051

File: 1642223444188.jpg (17.07 KB, 441x441, 1639801177415-1.jpg)

>>691936
>There is no fence to sit on, or third way. Either you are with the west, or the east.
I'm with the proletariat.

 No.692095

>>691010
calm down bro, there's always idiots but most of leftypol seems to be pro china

 No.692100

>>691010
Русский, обожающий КНР? А у вас китайцы не срубают Сибирские леса? Не говори, что серьезно веришь в Социализм с китайской спецификой.

 No.692104

>>692095
"Pro-China" is a loaded term. Merely being against fake news and war mongering against China gets you called "Pro-China" nowadays. And being publicly critical of China is an implicit support of US aggression. There's no room for nuance, and we need to be aware of that.

 No.692106

So most of leftypol is pro-capitalism and pro-billionaires? Private corporations good when they're Chinese, right?

 No.692115

>>692106
>replying to shit no-one said: episode #2242

 No.692137

>>692095
No.
>>692104
If "pro China" means "Deng good" like anon's meme seems to insinuate then no that is absolutely not true. I'm not to get in to normative claims. The capitalist reformers in the CPC like Deng betrayed and sold socialism in Chin for personal aggrandizement.

 No.692140

>>692137
You statement is inaccurate, where is the aggrandizement?

 No.692166

>pic rel: this entire thread

 No.692179

>>692140
Much of the CPC leadership owns a lot of stock in privatized corporations, there is a parallel with the privatizing of the state owned defense industry and high up PLA officers owning large stakes.

 No.692187

>>692166
It's just like 3 retards simping for China that are desperate for copium. I had a similar mindset when I first started coming here. Then I realized the proletariat will free itself, it's not up to some already existing state to do so. One anon put it well: the CPC doesn't need anons on some imageboard to protect them. Like look they will soon be the most powerful nation in the world, they are not beyond reproach.

 No.692191

>>692179
Sure internet guy, I believe you.

 No.692192

>>692187
In other words, the anti-China propaganda got to you.

 No.692196

>>692192
1.Stop treating politics like a cult
2.Don't choose such a shitty and anticommunist cult

 No.692197

>>692196
There are not anticommunists in this thread, only communists and slightly misguided communists.

 No.692198

>>692191
You can look it up for yourself. I had a hard time finding Deng's ownership of private companies and income, but you can easily find information on the privatization of China's military industry online.

 No.692200

>>691461
It's not given that a collapse of either China or US economy would collapse the other. It didn't happen in 2008.

 No.692217

>>692198
Doesn't this just mean those private companies are secretly just hybrid soes

 No.692221

>>692187
Correct

>>692196
You're asking for the impossible anon.

 No.692226

>>691635
>Nooo I have to be allowed to publicly criticize the socialist government and its policies, and thus weaken it
Allowing criticism of a socialist government by its own citizens doesn't weaken it, it strengthens it. It allows non-antagonistic contradictions to be brought into the open and resolve peacefully and to mutual benefit, instead of sweeping them under the rug where they fester and become antagonistic contradictions that can turn violent.

 No.692230

>>692226
It depends exactly on the type of criticism. For instance if the criticism over exaggerates, is uninformed, paranoid and or nonsensical and a bunch of people are allowed to say it then all you have is a recipe for long term disaster. Additionally if the criticism is things like we want political liberalization but the lib kind then in the long term that will accumulate and destroy the party.
Also if the criticism is supported by let's say regional cliques and or etc then we have a recipe for fictionalized based on region grounds or etc

 No.692231

>>692230 factionalization is what I meant not fictionalization

 No.692240

>>692226
There's also ways to channel criticism. If youre not adhering to dem cen then you're wrecking. Not sure how Chinese govt works though.

 No.692246

>>692230
>For instance if the criticism over exaggerates, is uninformed, paranoid and or nonsensical and a bunch of people are allowed to say it then all you have is a recipe for long term disaster.
Why exactly? People spout crazy nonsense all the time, 99% of the time nobody believes it. Should we arrest every homeless guy and tinfoil hat yelling about lizard people and the NWO? Opposition to a set of policies or a government can only manifest itself in a significant way if it acts as an expression of real contradictions, otherwise it's just some rando screaming into the void. Happy, well fed people aren't going to revolt against a socialist government just because somebody tells them to, they will only do so if their own experience indicates that the current order harms their interests to an unacceptable degree. If criticism resonates with large numbers of people, and metastasizes into a large scale political movement, then this is a symptom of deeper social contradictions in need of resolution. Obviously I'm not saying everything should be tolerated, but we have to distinguish between criticism that is the product of antagonistic contradictions (us and the enemy) and non-antagonistic contradictions (among the people). This is Mao's own formula. Tolerating and listening to the latter is not only an essential component of a healthy proletarian democracy, but actually strengthens the state in the long term. It helps it to establish the broadest possible hegemony, and give the largest possible segment of the population a stake in the active support of the existing state. To China's credit I actually think they're pretty good at this, at least when it comes to shit like people's everyday needs in regards to employment, infrastructure, the pandemic, etc. Of course there's always room for improvement, which I think the case of these Maoists shows. As a general rule however, the strongest state is one which is able to exist as the broadest possible synthesis of disparate interests, and this necessarily requires that these interests be free to work out their contradictions peacefully, in the open, through compromise and democracy.
>Additionally if the criticism is things like we want political liberalization but the lib kind then in the long term that will accumulate and destroy the party.
Are Maoists demanding political liberalization of the lib kind? Something tells me no.
>Also if the criticism is supported by let's say regional cliques and or etc then we have a recipe for fictionalized based on region grounds or etc
Again, there often exist contradictions between regional interests, but these are generally non-antagonistic. Why then is it a bad thing for people to express their discontent with how their region is treated if this is unfair? In my own country my home region is relatively rural and underdeveloped, and we are often neglected by the cosmopolitan urban centres. Should we not be allowed to express these grievances? There will be no danger of regional separatism or similar problems if the central government is attentive and responsive to the needs of the people of every region, if it allows them to voice their concerns, hold their leaders accountable, etc. Again, I'll concede that China is actually pretty good at dealing with this, but I'm speaking more abstractly here.

 No.692250

>>692240
I'm not against expressing regional or genuine criticism

It's the bad criticism I'm against. You talk about china and imo that's the perfect system i had I mind. A central authority that stops bad criticism and prevents factionalism, while at the same time allowing and respecting good criticism. Tho imo I want something a bit more democratic than chinas

 No.692252

>>692240
Why should democratic centralism apply to non party members? Why should be people who didn't get a vote in determining party policy at the congress have to abide by policy decisions they had no say in creating? Democratic centralism was a policy that emerged among the Bolsheviks, who were a heavily repressed and censored party operating illegally in one of histories most brutally autocratic societies. Obviously it's an appropriate policy for such difficult conditions. However I don't see why it necessarily needs to be maintained once that party is in power, especially in a country like China where the political base of the state is extremely secure and the party is massively popular.

 No.692256

>>692252
Because otherwise people don't know why decisions are being made.

No participation, no reading, no stake, no investigation, means no vote or say.

 No.692257


>>692252
To keep political unity and stability and to discourage division. However while ultimately they should follow the party line they should at the same time be allowed to critic the party line too. They should be allowed some degree of voice hell in china too while the minority parties are chained they are often allowed to critic the main party so to offer an alternative perspective

 No.692260

>>692246
Also yes while people often say stupid things allowing such stupid things to continue to be allowed is going to lead to dangerous situatioj. Branded America is an example of this. As such we need to limit and suppress the bad critics so the population doesn't get dumbed down by it.

Also there are liberals in china who want liberalization. These people are bigger than you think

 No.692266

>>692256
>Dirty, uneducated, unwashed proles shouldn't be allowed to have a say! Only their betters, the learned elite, should rule.
>>692257
>To keep political unity and stability
Do the bourgeoisie in liberal democratic countries ultimately not have political unity? Do they not manage this despite having multiple parties and factions within those parties? Political divisions are always an expression of divergent material interests. Suppressing the political expression of these interests does not make them go away, it just makes it more difficult to work them out constructively. Moreover the force which carries out this suppression can never itself stand above or outside these divisions.
>Also yes while people often say stupid things allowing such stupid things to continue to be allowed is going to lead to dangerous situatioj
And how can that be the case unless these stupid criticisms nevertheless speak to people's dissatisfaction and grievances? Shouldn't the focus be on remedying these instead of punishing people for bringing them up?

 No.692276

>>692266
>Only their betters, the learned elite, should rule.
No dude. Imagine I bust into your workplace and start telling people how to do their job. There is a very low chance I'll give them good directions. Whereas, if I study their behavior and integrate into the team I'd be able to make better suggestions.

What I'm suggesting is very basic. If you want your vote to count, then get involved. Otherwise you have no idea what's going on and you're voting based on no knowledge of the subject matter.

 No.692285

>>691936
>There is no fence to sit on, or third way. Either you are with the west, or the east.
Lmao, it's proletarian vs bourgeoisie, not a mystical east vs a decadent west.

 No.692289

>>692266
Yes and i agree there are legitimate criticisms that cause these people to critic which is why the problems should be addressed, I'm not against this. If the critic is good then follow upon it and fix it and if the critic is bad suppress it but figure out why the problem emerged in the first place. Punisher suppress bad criticism to show the people what is just nonsense while at the same time listening to good actual criticism which will eventually go to the actual reason why the bad criticism emerged in the first place

Also for your other point yes but if we look at these borg states they are often highly dysfunctional. Sure they might address certain issues efficiently but 80 or 90 percent of the time they don't operate that well. And it's on purpose because by purposely creating a system of faction you create a system of very weak gov. Where your pawns or enemies are absolutely divided with each other and thus they can't act against you. After all a highly weak state domestic wise can't regulate against big power corporations.

We should not apply a system that was purposely created to be weak with factionalism and thus non functional to a socialist state since that would be bad

 No.692317

>>692276
>No dude. Imagine I bust into your workplace and start telling people how to do their job. There is a very low chance I'll give them good directions.
This isn't a workplace Anon, it's a state, and an allegedly proletarian, socialist one at that. Political participation needs to be extended to every citizen (or at least every prole/peasant), that's how a democracy works. You're essentially arguing for relegating the majority of people to disenfranchised second class citizens.
>What I'm suggesting is very basic. If you want your vote to count, then get involved.
Why are you assuming that not being a party member means you aren't informed about the issues, or don't have the capability to advocate for your own interests?

 No.692321

>>692289
>If the critic is good then follow upon it and fix it and if the critic is bad suppress it
And how do you differentiate between the two? How do you differentiate between bad faith and ignorance? How do you prevent this from being abused, with legitimate criticism being simply labeled as "bad criticism" etc?
>Also for your other point yes but if we look at these borg states they are often highly dysfunctional.
Pretty weird how "highly dysfunctional" states managed to subjugate the entire world for centuries.

 No.692327

>>692321
Dysfunctional in domestic issues but not in foriegn. However let me explain. These borg states created these very weak state that can't act against borg interest but if it's for borg interest they can work. And thats the point they were made weak to challenge interests. After all if one faction is used to prevent legislation or anything in the us case the gov stops functioning and the legistilation doesn't pass. Aka the gov is easily weakened to such a degree that pokie can use one faction to protect its interests so to stop gov from doing shit unless it's for porker interests

Now consider this system where interests can be easily protected by the using of factions to prevent things passing that go against certain groups interest and apply that to a socialist country with regional urban or etc factions that want to protect their interest. It's not gonna end well


And for the had criticism well some bad criticism is obvious like hypothetical covid is made in a lab or really absurd shit, but yeah I cam see what you are trying to say and I need to think about it

This is what i mean by weak gov

 No.692333

>>692327
>However let me explain. These borg states created these very weak state that can't act against borg interest but if it's for borg interest they can work.
Well of course, these are bourgeois states were are talking about here. However in terms of reconciling various bourgeois interests which are sometimes in opposition to one another, liberal democracy is pretty effective. What I'm saying is that the existence of multiple factions or parties engaging with one another openly can accomplish the same task for workers and peasants, allowing them to resolve contradictions amongst themselves constructively.
>After all if one faction is used to prevent legislation or anything in the us case the gov stops functioning and the legistilation doesn't pass.
That's a relatively recent phenomenon, in the past both parties were able to pass legislation that balanced the interests of various bourgeois factions pretty effectively, and most liberal countries are still able to do this.

 No.692339

>>692333
Actually I disagree with this but I will type a response on Sunday since one I gotta sleep so yeah nice talk tho

 No.692348

>>692106
Its necessary evil for China to develop into a 1st world country.

 No.692377

>>692051
Then you're with the east, who are DotP


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