I uphold Christman Thought Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 08:44:13 No. 688018 [Last 50 Posts]
>Capitalism is the Demiurge, a system whose very essence is antithetical to all spiritual ways of thinking preceding it, yet is nevertheless deeply cultic in its demands on humans and ultimate way of operating in the world, it is a Real God that destroyed all other gods then denied its own existence >The ultimate end state of capitalism can be theorized scientifically as global warming, a sixth mass extinction, and mass social struggle over the entire world; it can only be understood spiritually, as ushering in the apocalypse and Hell on Earth <The end stage of capitalism is literally Hell on Earth >The struggle of the proletariat for communism is akin to the struggle of the original protestants to “live like Christians” in opposition to the feudal ruling classes and the ideological pomp of the Church, the true meaning of early protestantism was challenging feudal authority by challenging the Church which upheld it <Communism is a spiritualist struggle for an age where God is dead and technology is advanced, communists effectively are fighting for heaven on Earth and the transcending of people’s alienation from Nature and each other, because this is now technologically possible >The struggle for socialism was most intense and most popular in the colonized world because for the colonized, they were compelled not through treats, but by a rifle at the head and just enough food to survive but barely
back to twitter 2022-01-12 (Wed) 08:48:33 No. 688022
muh spirituality and end-times, muh kali yuga
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 08:51:18 No. 688023
>>688022 Marxists basically believe in all these things, they just claim not to
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 08:58:54 No. 688025
>>688023 kali-yuga is a crackhead-level take
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 08:59:05 No. 688027
I don't see the point in using language that only appeals to an obscure religious belief. Just associate capitalism with Satan's bidding. Accepting capitalism is like Jesus accepting food and drink from Satan in the desert. Roll with that approach.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:00:08 No. 688029
>>688025 add: [at least the idea that all the universe exists in cycles, some people just use it as a metaphor for shitty times which is just barely acceptable i guess]
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:01:02 No. 688033
>>688018 It's neat seeing a member of the protestant left finally owning up to what they are: a protestant.
But Communism cannot be the fight for heaven on earth, as Communism is the renunciation of heaven altogether; it is the reconciliation of historical motions as never being finalized, as always tending towards their own self-development in tandem with the practical activity of human consciousness. Heaven is a finality, an absoluteness, an ideal.
Communism, on the other hand, is as the quote classically declares:
“Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which [sublates] the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.”
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:05:36 No. 688037
>>688025 >Literally just means era of struggle and strife <Crackhead belief Okay buddy liberal
>>688029 Marxists already believe class society and capitalism in particular exists in cycles, idky you get so haughty and arrogant over some pre-modern conception you implicitly believe anyway
<inb4 I don’t believe this Then what do you call the cycles of class struggle in these societies that either end in common ruin or transcending the particular society? What do you call the endless cycles of capitalist crisis caused by over accumulation?
Honestly as I said, idky people here are so quick to dismiss Christman when he’s just tearing a mask off what you already basically believe and giving metaphors for things that are actually happening
>>688033 Man that was a particularly long winded way to say basically nothing
>Communism is workers struggling to change things, the more they change the more communist it is, it’s indefinable because it’s just the future or something which is endless by definition idk What an impressive way of saying nothing and describing basically nothing
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:06:04 No. 688038
>>688037 Man you're really stupid
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:08:10 No. 688040
>>688037 Man you're really stupid>>688039
Your response was a non-response, I'm only reciprocating.
You misunderstand what's said, mischaracterize/strawman it, and then in your arrogance, you assert your mischaracterization as if it were representative of the argument at hand, rather than cede that you may not have grasped what was written (which you clearly didn't).
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:09:08 No. 688041
>>688037 >Honestly as I said, idky people here are so quick to dismiss Christman when he’s just tearing a mask off what you already basically believe and giving metaphors for things that are actually happening ok? stick it up your ass
>>688033 I kinda don't like The German Ideology :/
Feel like The Holy Family and Grundrisse are better as philosophical explanations of communism
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:11:10 No. 688042
>>688041 Fair, but The German Ideology was written partially as an addendum to The Holy Family.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:12:48 No. 688043
>>688040 Why not make something useful of your life and actually flesh out your argument then
See, I never make non-statements myself, I despise slogans and people that shit them out as statements of value, just say plainly what you mean instead of shitting out communist slogans from the 1800s, because what you wrote reads like a non-statement, i just looks like “communism is something that can’t be defined” which is a useless statement
>>688041 Mate, you cal, yourself a scientist, yet debate the proper interpretation of 19th-20th Century social and political philosophy instead of, say, reality itself. There are no biologists debating the proper interpretation of Darwin because something like that is irrelevant regarding evolutionary biology.
There’s no shame in being what you are, the problem is that leftypolers are insanely eager to shame others for admitting what they believe in.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:15:21 No. 688045
>>688043 The argument is sufficiently fleshed out as is, why not drop the entitlement and make an effort to understand it. What I wrote is plainly apparent, the meaning is there, it isn't an arbitrarily attached slogan. If you drop your perception of what I wrote and actually assess the content of it as is, you'll see that it's not a non-statement. I never said 'communism is something that can't be defined', nor was that the meaning of the post. This is the perfect example of how you, in your misunderstanding, project your strawman as if it were representative of anything other than your own ignorance. And again, I'm not going to capitulate to your entitlement, you can figure it out, or you can continue thinking something incorrect.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:16:02 No. 688047
>>688043 what's "reality"? middle class anxieties filtered through profound nonsense?
love arguing over Marx, hate theology and populism, simple as
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:18:42 No. 688049
>>688048 one on the left is a chad
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:20:50 No. 688052
>>688047 The natural sciences are reality
Things like evolution, ecology, astronomy, cosmology, physics, chemistry
You know, all those fields where people
don’t argue about properly interpreting the writings of important thinkers but instead debate findings based on their direct studies and experiments on and about the real physical universe
Know where people argue about proper interpretations of writers and thinkers? Theology, philosophy, and literature.
Now, do you think what we do here is closer to what actual scientists studying the physical universe do, or what the latter who you look down on do?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:23:10 No. 688054
>>688033 >It's neat seeing a member of the protestant left finally owning up to what they are: a protestant. I'm normally more sympathetic to Christman, but the OP makes it sound like he believes communism is the faith sustaining the endless spiritual striving of the subject against an absolutized object, which is more like a weird chimera of Fichte and Lukacs than Hegel or Marx.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:24:07 No. 688055
>>688052 and you think saying "we live in a society" but in even more religious terms is like the natural sciences? are you one of those people that complain about xenostrogens?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:26:25 No. 688056
>>688055 Nope, don’t think it’s like the natural sciences at all, I just think it’s a proper metaphor for what humanity is facing
I just don’t need to pretend that something that really isn’t much like the natural sciences actually is
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:32:03 No. 688058
>>688056 i don't, i think it's just a podcaster and twitter addict peddling feefee's as an alternative to any actual politics and then having his sycophants shit up /leftypol/
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:32:24 No. 688059
>>688022 >incapable of understanding spirituality outside of the christian lens t. chomsky
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:32:52 No. 688060
>>688037 there are trends that result over time from specific causes. it's not some cyclical philosophy of the universe hard-coded into everything.
and it doesn't "just mean era of strife" do you know what a cycle is? your cycle idea implies 1) if we succeed, shit will turn just as bad in the future
2) success is inevitable
neither of those are remotely true. i mean 1 is possible, but you're implying that politics is bound by pre-determinism.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:35:51 No. 688062
>>688060 Lmao never said it was hard baked into the universe itself, just that it’s a trend at least in class society
>Do you know what a cycle is Uhhh
Do you? A cycle can be descending as in there’s always a new element in each spiral, and a cycle can also be broken
Isn’t that what communists implicitly desire, to end the 7,000 year cycle of the struggle between classes in society and different class societies
The actual universe doesn’t give half a fuck about some random apes on some random world in the middle of nowhere, space
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:37:08 No. 688063
>>688052 you're starting to make me lean towards feeling that religious people in general should not be taken seriously ever.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:37:58 No. 688065
>>688062 >decides that they can pick and choose what parts of that thing they like okay buddy
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:38:57 No. 688066
>>688052 >The natural sciences are reality No, these are secondary to the social practices sustaining them. Or, put another way, scientific observations only matter to us in relation to the set of practices that allow "scientific reality" both to form and to assume importance for us in the first place.
Naturalism like yours has to abstract from concrete particularity and treat either the present state of our understanding of science as "Reality" or else has to abstract from science in actuality and point toward science as the Ideal of Science that exists only indeterminately and meaninglessly. Naturalism has no understanding of scientific investigation practically.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:41:19 No. 688067
>>688060 > but you're implying that politics is bound by pre-determinism. Marxism itself implies this, by unequivocally stating that the struggle between classes is the basis for historical development and that each class society has its own material basis that determines the struggle that unfolds, therefore history is already somewhat pre-determined
The reason it’s only somewhat pre-determined rather than entirely pre-determined is because humans, as subjects, can still consciously attempt to change the world and always will attempt to do so, particularly in “breaking the cycle”
>>688063 You basically are a religious person that just thinks you aren’t because you don’t believe in any particular god
>>688066 Fucking nonsense mate, the observations we make about the space beyond Earth can be entirely correct even if they don’t bring some particular gain to society, ditto for what we’ve learned about Earth’s history
>Inb4 ackshually my social philosophy is more real and true than any natural science Typical leftypol dogshite
Exact reason why Christman is correct and you are wrong
At least he knows he’s effectively bought into spiritualism
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:42:43 No. 688068
>>688065 What thing did I assert my belief in? I’m not Hindu so muh Kali Yuga is irrelevant to me.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 09:59:01 No. 688078
>>688067 >the observations we make about the space beyond Earth can be entirely correct even if they don’t bring some particular gain to society Yes, but that's not what I'm saying. The scientific "picture" only exists for us and is sustained through our social practices, and the world it generates theoretically is secondary to the concrete social practices sustaining the sciences themselves. It doesn't make sense to speak of scientific theories or results as valid without the ability to test them experimentally. They wouldn't even exist in the form they do without their bases in such tests and our ability to validate these through standardized measures and tools, all of which assume definite sets of social practices underlying all such "realities" generated from scientific investigation.
<>Inb4 ackshually my social philosophy is more real and true than any natural science Do you think "science" has no "social philosophy" it's attached to? I'm not saying natural science is "less real"; it's "secondary" and abstract in the way you're treating it, but it's not "unreal."
>At least he knows he’s effectively bought into spiritualism Where did I refer to "spirits" you illiterate chimp? Is your thought process like "hard things I can't understand make me angry, so it must be nonsense like 'spiritualism'"? Because I'm guessing that's exactly what your "thought" process was.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:23:35 No. 688096
>>688078 >My point is that science would be meaningless without a way to test our theories which had to develop over the course of history! No shit, Sherlock, there’s a reason why science isn’t just pulling shit out of your ass because it sounds vaguely believable, what’s the sense in pointing this out to basically claim that science is wrong? What separates science from religion is that science is meant to be readily falsifiable and every theory is approached from the perspective of finding cases to disprove the theory.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:30:09 No. 688105
>>688097
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:33:20 No. 688110
>>688067 all you're showing by assuming this about me is that you don't know how to make proper rebuttals.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:35:11 No. 688114
You deserve every non-response you get for the remainder of this thread. If it hasn't been demonstrated clearly enough yet, you aren't going to say anything coherent.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:36:21 No. 688115
>>688114 Non-responses are all I’ve ever expected from Leftypol, it’s what I received from the very first reply and every reply afterwards
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:37:06 No. 688117
>>688115 You reap what you sow
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 10:37:59 No. 688118
>>688117 Yea, posting here usually is a waste, you’re right
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:00:42 No. 688138
>>688018 sauce for this? i wanna send this to my dad, he's a liberation theologist
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:09:08 No. 688145
>>688096 >No shit, Sherlock You're missing my point: the theories neither have meaning nor even exist without the practices. The sense of reality the sciences produce is real in that it relates to objects determined from the practices and technologies, but it's real with relation to the concrete social totality to which the sciences belong, not separate from that, and it's in this totality that its theories can be reproduced and validated in relation to the actual practices and the standards and tools available. You've abstracted entirely from these circumstances and presented the picture of reality formed atop the actuality of scientific investigation as if this scientific picture of the world exists independently of the actuality in which it has essence, when both the objects investigated by a science and our sense of objective reality are constituted by and through its actuality as embodied in its (technical) practices.
>what’s the sense in pointing this out to basically claim that science is wrong? I didn't claim science was "wrong." I was claiming your view of science abstracted from concrete existence into the Ideal of Science was wrong.
>What separates science from religion is that science is meant to be readily falsifiable and every theory is approached from the perspective of finding cases to disprove the theory. Hardly. Very few still uphold this Popperian notion of science. Moreover, it isn't true in practice. People are far more often guided in their investigations by scientific theories rather than seeking to disprove them. The ones who most often approach scientific theories from the perspective of finding cases to disprove them are marginal (flat-Earthers, creationists, etc.).
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:36:59 No. 688168
>>688018 Who is guy in pic? Who is Christman?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:39:57 No. 688171
>>688168 The Christman is a modern day Marxist philosopher
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:40:01 No. 688172
>>688168 some sam hyde-esque goon failson pseudointellectual dickhead
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 11:40:38 No. 688173
>>688171 Fuck off, vortigaunt
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 12:01:26 No. 688179
>>688018 All anti Christman retards are just seething that he shits on Stalin. No actual arguments really because most of them are to dumb to understand what he is saying.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:21:07 No. 688236
>>688179 Funny, isn't his criticism of Stalin literally that he was too liberal and pretty much gave up the fight after WW2?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:28:57 No. 688240
>>688179 I think Stalin ruined the revolution, but I also don't like obscurantist crypto-fash dickheads.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:35:37 No. 688246
>>688236 Pretty much, his take is that Stalin allowed the imperialist world to dictate to the Soviets the continued conflict between them, thus making the bloody effort to build socialism in a backwards Russia rather moot
It’s also why the poster who responded after you is an utter moron to call Christman a “crypto-fascist” (non-tankie) of all things
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:40:13 No. 688248
>>688236 His takes on pre-ww2 ussr are also pretty bizzare but I guess that just a result of him getting his history from trot authors.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:53:53 No. 688253
Matt Christman is good for online obsessed Americans, and is bad for virtually everyone else. I've noticed that younger American intellectuals are unable to talk about anything that doesn't directly concern them and it's very limiting.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:55:19 No. 688254
>>688143 He's slowly turning into reactionary, he's moving away from class struggle towards identityshit and he's falling from materialism into idealist stuff like dualism.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:56:01 No. 688255
>>688254 IT KEEPS HAPPENING
I TOLD YOU ABOUT WEIRDO ONLINE GOONS
I TOLD YOU BRO
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 13:59:27 No. 688258
>>688254 > he's moving away from class struggle towards identityshit How, specifically?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:05:48 No. 688262
>>688254 >Towards identity shit Uhhhh
How?
If anything he was way more on identity shit in 2020 when he kept harping on about the whole meaningless college thing
Honestly I think leftypol gets their panties in a twist because Matt likes using spiritual metaphors and enjoys talking about aspects of modern history and modern philosophical development people here are either indifferent to or opposed to discussing
Like, when he talks about movements like the Munster Revolt he’s just discussing how the socialist movement of today’s world and the last two centuries is, in reality, connected to the old peasant struggles and even the early worker’s movement which actually was pretty explicitly religious in its messaging; and his point is never that any specific religion is true but that these religions speak to an actual truth, which is the notion that people can exist in a world without being alienated from each other and society; or at least without the alienation specific to class societies
His broader point is also that one thing that does make capitalism qualitatively different from past forms of oppression is that it is configured in such a way as to not seem like the repression it really is, that is, in past societies you were clearly directly oppressed by the lords and by the Church and this was simply justified with God or something, you could easily survive without the lord’s fuckery getting in the way of your life since most people were self-sufficient peasantry; under capitalism it isn’t a blade at your throat forcing you to produce for someone else but the threat of deprivation because everything you need to survive has to be acquired through the marketplace which means you have to work for a wage; it’s abstracted, sure, at the end of the chain there are sharpened bayonets (or in our world drones) that will fucking kill you if you absolutely refuse to obey, but at our end of the chain the threat is most evidently just being homeless due to forces that are “out of everyone’s control”. And in a way, they are out of everyone’s control, because the last important difference between capitalism and the prior systems is, of course, the fact that capitalists themselves are irrelevant as individuals in a way lords and kings were not; capitalists do not act to fuel their own personal consumption, they ultimately act to increase their own profits so their capital can consume other capitals and not be consumed in turn, the alternative to not following profit incentives is to become a prole and be worked
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:07:08 No. 688264
You had me until protestants, you retards are the reason we got in all this mess in the first place. You are devilish deviants.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:08:17 No. 688266
>>688262 So what, social relations are mystical and not part of the material world? We live in a society, after all.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:08:36 No. 688268
>>688264 Tradcaths aren’t real
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:14:02 No. 688271
>>688255 >IT KEEPS HAPPENING yeah but why tho ?
>>688258 >>688262 he literally says that there can't be united class struggle and instead socialist should do identity shit.
that's reactionary, the correct line is that the primary contradiction is imperialism with the potential to kick off WW3 and class war, every other contradictions are secondary.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:16:56 No. 688272
>>688266 No, social relations are obviously material, his point was that all that mysticism and shit was, in fact, pointing towards a real material thing.
Part of the problem with modern society is that it’s like we’ve genuinely lost the ability to even understand how pre-modern people actually thought. When we think of things like religion, gods, magic, etc. we think of a set of beliefs, supernatural beings, special abilities; pre-modern people did not think this way, like, they did, but you must consider they genuinely believed in these things, it wasn’t just bullshit for them. Religion for us is a set of beliefs, for them it was also their community, the people they knew and lived with, the potential for a better world to exist. For them gods were supernatural beings, but also an occult way to relate to people’s own powerlessness in life, either against nature (which was the first subject of religion) or other people who held power (who gods began to look like once empires and kings were established). For them magic was on some level “abilities” but more importantly effects, that is, magic is the belief itself and the effects of a belief on an individual.
And note, nowhere in materialism are individuals or human consciousness discounted as irrelevant and meaningless, these things are not even minimized, just given a grounded footing; all human consciousness and thought arises from things that exist in the world, but humans are also active agents in the world we exist, so our thoughts can and do effect reality in the form of our actions. The understanding of materialism is simply that the physical reality supersedes the internal reality; that is, protestantism emerged due to lords wanting power separate from the Church, a shit ton of real physical crises in Europe such as the Black Death and famine from the Little Ice Age, the spread of literacy and philosophy in the Renaissance due to the physical interactions between Europe and both the Middle East and China; however the emergence of Protestantism continued to change Europe in ways it may not have changed if not for its emergence
Does that make sense?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:17:08 No. 688273
>>688271 >he literally says that there can't be united class struggle and instead socialist should do identity shit. No he doesn't lol, you're just making shit up or maybe you have him confused with someone else. I would like to hear audio of him saying that. I've listened to a lot of his schizo vlogs and the constant is that all that shit is cultural and pointless.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:19:10 No. 688274
ultimately this is just what most communists understand but with schizo-religious phrases. I literally don't care but good that he maintains the class struggle.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:20:12 No. 688276
>>688271 Except he also states that identity struggles will never lead anywhere because they aren’t based in things that are real in the way class is real
If anything his statement isn’t that workers
shouldn’t organize based on class, his point is examining why they don’t, why they frequently haven’t, and why they’ve continually chosen identity struggles over class struggle. Like, have you really even listened to this guy?
I know it’s probably more fun to just be somewhat naively optimistic and focus on how things will just work out the way you want them to because….you want them to, but it seems to me that Christman is more interested in thinking about why things are the way they are and likely finds it more useful to explain broader societal factors making people choose things like idpol over class struggle, instead of a very easy retreat into conspiracy where, actually it’s all just state actors and that’s it
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:23:34 No. 688282
>>688052 Lmao, you don't think there has ever been any different interpretations of Darwin?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:26:48 No. 688284
>>688272 I knew all of this already
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:29:05 No. 688285
I listened to some of his ramblings and all I understood is that you HAVE to be an american to give a shit about anything he says.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:31:00 No. 688286
>>688282 Uh
Yes?
The theory has at least moved past Darwin, AFAIK much of what Darwin had seen was correct, but his theory has been heavily built upon due to the growth of paleontology as a study and genetics
>>688284 Then why do you despise Christman if you don’t even disagree with him?
>>688285 Well he is producing his videos for at least an english speaking audience
Like, what, are you supposed to be so filled with self-hatred as an American that you refuse to even analyze the conditions in your own country?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:33:43 No. 688288
>>688286 I don’t despise him, I despise you, some prick with a terminal case of stemlord brain who thinks that “‘muh natural sciences” will show us how the world works. News flash: you’ve got more in common with liberal mechanical materialists who thought you could chart the history from the first molecule that bumped against the others like they were dominoes.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:34:50 No. 688289
Innumerate brainlet who spouts verbal diarrhea. New age mumbo jumbo repackaged for postironic millennial political dropouts. He should drop more acid and fry his tiny brain some more.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:37:11 No. 688291
>>688288 Damn dude, sorry you hate me, such an important, likable, and well known individual as you are
Didn’t realize there was a better tool for understanding the physical universe than the natural sciences, damn dude, you is right, why don’t you tell me the Marxist theory explaining black holes because I’m such a liberal dumbass? Is it that they don’t exist? It’s totally that they don’t exist, right?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:38:38 No. 688293
>>688289 nice buzzwords bro
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:39:40 No. 688294
>>688288 >News flash: you’ve got more in common with liberal mechanical materialists who thought you could chart the history from the first molecule that bumped against the others like they were dominoes. I mean if you had sufficient information about each molecule and near-infinite processing power you could literally do that
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:40:09 No. 688296
>>688291 Tell me what the fuck black holes have to do with class society, I’ll wait.
The fact that you think the social sciences aren’t “real” science because they don’t adhere to some idealized version of it without understanding WHY or even if it CAN adhere to that model is peak midwit brainrot.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:40:18 No. 688297
>>688288 > News flash: you’ve got more in common with liberal mechanical materialists who thought you could chart the history from the first molecule that bumped against the others like they were dominoes. t. Person who believes in a definite and pre-determined end to history
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:41:39 No. 688298
>>688294 >Mechanical Idealism Congratulations for treating the universe like an elaborate rube goldberg machine where the parts don’t evolve into something else over the millenia.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:43:16 No. 688300
>>688018 Based,
bourgeois = archons
Pneumatics = class conscious vanguardists
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:43:22 No. 688301
>>688289 maybe if we banned one-liners we could have nice threads again
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:44:07 No. 688302
>>688296 Oh so the only things that are real are things that relate to Marxist theory and nothing exists outside of it?
I’m just trying to figure out the meaning of you railing against the natural sciences which don’t attempt to explain away society and instead focus on the material universe (largely) outside of human subjectivity
> The fact that you think the social sciences aren’t “real” science because they don’t adhere to some idealized version of it without understanding WHY or even if it CAN adhere to that model is peak midwit brainrot. Lmao I just think it’s funny how arrogant Marxists are, that’s all
They have absolutely no shame speaking down to anarchists, directly calling them children, claiming anarchism isn’t scientific but actually Marxism somehow is, or at least much moreso than whatever anarchists believe
Yet the second you criticize Marxism for lacking the rigor that the natural sciences have, the only response I ever see, honestly, is to cry and call their critic a liberal
And remember, this was all started by you trying to be conceited and arrogant regarding Matt Christman, who, if nothing else, possesses self-awareness
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:46:20 No. 688304
>>688297 Predetermined? In the socialism or barbarism sense, but I’m not some moron who thinks that you can sit on your ass to make society magically transform from capitalism into socialism into communism. Rather, current class society, specifically the revolutionary subject, the proletariat, has the possibility of doing so, because they have the unique capability of establishing their class dictatorship and thereon out abolish class society as a whole. This has the same batshit logic as:
>I’m hungry >A sandwich will satiate my hunger <Therefore, a sandwich will magically manifest in my stomach Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:47:08 No. 688305
>>688298 Well they do evolve into other things, but that all happens by the mechanism of single molecules interacting with others. If you have 100% of the information about a situation then the past as well as the future is 100% predictable.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:49:23 No. 688306
>>688302 Simple, it doesn’t determine how I can pay my rent or health insurance premiums.
And oh my, are you some butthurt anarchist who can’t understand why their utopianism is detached from reality?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:51:10 No. 688308
>>688306 >What is stoichiometry Fam, there’s a degree of probability and chance even in the outcome of chemical reactions, forget the complexities of biology, sociology, etc.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:54:21 No. 688313
>>688306 So you’re full of shit and worthless, thanks for playing
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:55:15 No. 688314
>>688313 >Can’t provide counterpoint <proceeds to mald Many such cases
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 14:56:24 No. 688316
>>688314 A counterpoint to what?
You being proud of being ignorant on a subject? You countered yourself with your reply.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:07:57 No. 688325
>>688319 No, more like funny that you expected me to counter you being proudly ignorant on a subject
Why would I care to counter you admitting to being a moron?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:23:32 No. 688337
Isn't portraying Marxism as an ideology or a religion basically as old as Marxism itself at this point. What is Matt bringing to the table here
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:34:14 No. 688348
>>688337 >Isn't portraying Marxism as an ideology anon, I…
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:34:54 No. 688350
>>688273 >I would like to hear audio of him saying that. he says it in this podcast linked by
>>688143 >I've listened to a lot of his schizo vlogs and the constant is that all that shit is cultural i have only listened to some of his vlogs ( like 5), and i agree that in the past he does oppose "cultural shit" but detected a slight shift towards reaction in this last one (that is linked in this thread)
>>688276 >Christman is more interested in thinking about why things are the way they are Marx would reply to that: "philosophers have so far only interpreted the world, the point howerver is to change it"
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:39:05 No. 688351
>>688350 This would be very poignant if people here were actually doing anything
But, like, they aren’t; at least Christman admits what he produces is effectively entertainment and doesn’t inflate his own importance
It’s not like the denizens of this imageboard are maoist guerrillas fighting a war with the west or something
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 15:41:18 No. 688353
>>688248 His China takes are pretty detached too, although he did talk himself into being a dengist through the course of a cushvlog
As it stands, I still adore Matt. It also helps that he is genuinely disabled and did work for a living in retail prior to chapo. If you have a solid ideological background (and can tolerate/enjoy the spiritual rants), cushvlogs are delightful. I hope he continues to do them until he's either 150 or bored.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 17:25:03 No. 688458
Matt is like doomers pill + hopium at the same time. Basically listening to him is like taking a downer and upper at the same time.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 17:28:53 No. 688464
>>688302 >Oh so the only things that are real are things that relate to Marxist theory and nothing exists outside of it? Ideally, yes, but the development of the sciences relates to the mode of production.
>Yet the second you criticize Marxism for lacking the rigor that the natural sciences have, the only response I ever see, honestly, is to cry and call their critic a liberal It wouldn't be like a "natural science" exactly. The sense of "Wissenschaft" in German isn't the same as "science" (or "natural science") in English, although the two did overlap more in the past. The criticism of anarchists and others on the left for being "unscientific" wasn't (originally) intended in the sense that they weren't empirical "natural" sciences.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 17:29:10 No. 688465
>>688445
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 17:30:01 No. 688468
>>688464 > Ideally, yes Fucking kek
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 17:36:38 No. 688480
>>688468 Obviously, not all Marxists actually try to integrate the sciences into their view, e.g. Leninhat, so it results in a bizarrely detached notion of science.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 18:07:44 No. 688529
>>688018 Christcom for White socialists
Islamocom for Brown socialists
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 20:15:56 No. 688623
>>688018 I basically agree, but with some mildly different aesthetics.
I agree with spaceanon that people are overly mad about the terminology of variations of gnostic marxism.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 20:27:41 No. 688630
Ian Wright has nicer theories IMO.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 20:28:44 No. 688631
>>688301 This is not a nice thread, it's barely coherent babbling. There is not one actionable insight in this dungheap. Matt Chistman is playing palliative wordgames for himself, he admits as much on the regular, and anyone who thinks they are deep insights that can be expanded upon is simply not seeing the forrest through the trees. This oaf knows not a whit about either Islam or China, yet he postulates chinese islamic synthesis as the way of the future with a straight face. He should stick to suburban American neuroses.
The reason he's not writing a book is not that he can only reason verbally, it's that once on paper the lack of coherent thread is laid bare. Which is not a problem if all you do is provide a constant stream of content pellets to your doped up audience, in one ear and out the next as they browse twitter threads.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 20:41:36 No. 688641
>>688302 >Yet the second you criticize Marxism for lacking the rigor that the natural sciences have, the only response I ever see, honestly, is to cry and call their critic a liberal No, if anything the number one response on this board is to respond with Cockshott, Shaikh, and/or a Victor Magariño video.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 23:50:23 No. 690266
I hope his book is more focused than his vlogs
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 01:22:15 No. 690337
>>688631 > yet he postulates chinese islamic synthesis as the way of the future with a straight face. Kek
You’ve never listened to his vlog
>>688630 Ian Wright is the true GOAT compared to Christman, yes
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 01:30:39 No. 690345
>>688018 Why does this mf look like an IRL Disco Elysium character?
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 17:09:48 No. 691099
>>690345 Fake cryptonazi leftists are fat, ugly, and look like hobos.
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 17:53:43 No. 691154
>>690337 >You’ve never listened to his vlog I got it verbatim from his last vlog you imbecile
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 18:54:28 No. 691237
>>688270 I can tell you’re a burger because you think Luther was the only/first/most important Protestant figure
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 05:39:27 No. 692076
>>688270 >wealth accumulation wasn't invented before martin luther retard alert
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