/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

It didn’t
Lenin just called everyone in Eastern Europe Russian and had anyone expressing views like religion or traditions native to their made up identity killed or deported because identity politics gets in the way of the economic development and security of the ussr

>>688515
Pretty based

>>688519
Don’t care fag
Christcucks and paygays needed it if we could have things like transistors and rockets today

>>688515
That's very based. Fine, I'm satiated.

>>688515
you had to win an auction to have an identity

>Why not completely dismiss people's ethnic identity, disregard it, destroy it and replace it solely with the identity of being a worker?
And this isn't idealism to you?

>>688513
Existence is reactionary, kill yourself to further the cause!

>>688561
No? Since when is a worker an idealist label?

>>688615
Not him but it's idealist because it is incompatible with reality specifically about dealing with building an actual working revolutionary state that presides over multiple ethnic groups across a large land mass that doesn't collapse in on itself. People aren't going to easily let go of absolutely everything their ancestors passed on to them culturally.

Stalin was a Georgian supremacist.

Lenin was wrong, Rosa was right. This type of indulgence is why Ukraine and the Baltics are a bunch of Nazis today.

>>688513
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/index.htm
the bolsheviks supported national autonomy, which was frankly a huge mistake and led to a ton of headaches and finally needless bloodshed when the soviet union fell
this guy >>688515 is literally talking out of his ass

>>688513
Imagine being this delusional and disconnected from reality

>>688513
>Why not completely dismiss people's ethnic identity, disregard it, destroy it and replace it solely with the identity of being a worker?
Because that's a child's / reactionary view on socialism.

>>689684
>and were required for any movement even outside of your registered home city
That is an absolute bullshit. Passports were requires for only two things - getting a job in the city and registering at new place, again, in the city. You were not required to even have a passport at all otherwise. Rural popuilation didn't even bother to actually get them unless them moved to a city. My grandparents didn't had any passports till late 80s when they moved out of kolkhoz and they have several literal piles of photos of them moving around USSR. And no, they weren't even party members.
>n practice anyone who had "русский/ая" was more privileged than anyone who had others.
Again, nothing but a bullshit. Simple look at party itself and any number of managerial position will show that there was no barriers for other ethnicities, no matter how minor, to achieve success in that USSR.

>>689684
>people's ethnicity (decided by the state)
Your parents said what's to write on your birth cert lel
>were required for any movement even outside of your registered home city
This is a lie (unlike now in Russia heh, you need a passport to buy a ticket, except not for population control reasons but to get rid of scalpers that bought up tickets and tried to resell them lol)
>In practice anyone who had "русский/ая" was more privileged than anyone who had others
What do you mean by that specifically? I'm guessing a lie

>>689851
>except not for population control reasons
For them too.

>>689857
Eh, I'm not so sure, it started several years earlier than the whole muh terrorism security scare started to ramp up.

>>688513
>Isn't that an idealist notion?
You don't understand what idealism and materialism are.

>Why not completely dismiss people's ethnic identity, disregard it, destroy it and replace it solely with the identity of being a worker?
To a suburboid burger fishing for random shit to put on their twitter bio ethnicity is absolutely an optional and meaningless thing they can choose to "identify" with or not on a whim.
To people in former Russian Empire 100 years ago, not so much.

>>689691
>>689687
Lmao, Luxemburgists sounding a lot like Vladimir Putin and Anton Denikin.

>>689716
>>689711
This you can't ignore nationality and national oppression, but Marxist Leninists will always subjugate it to the class question.

>>688513
It's kind of like "unity through diversity" stuff. But revolution is a transformation of one form of class rule to the next, and it doesn't automatically solve social problems or eliminate divisions or uneveness between people because of ethnicity or language. These identities, such as nationality, religion and ethnicity are ultimately ephemeral fictions but they are long-lasting, and you can't just melt them away by denying their existence. But in perhaps 200 or 500 years, people would still call themselves Kazakhs or Burats or Russians, but they won't matter as much except on festive occasions, and not something to die for.

>>690231
You see something similar in China with 56 recognized ethnic groups and perhaps the most sweeping affirmative action programs in the world. Han and Chinese are two separate things. You can be a Chinese without being a Han. But even Han is a mishmash of different ethnic groups cooked in a hot pot for thousands of years and a lot of "Han" cultural stuff was not originally "Han."

And this throws Westerners for a loop and I've seen some Western commentary that this is actually bad because the Chinese communists are "recognizing them into oblivion." If the minority ethnic groups are not oppressed, then they won't break away and form independent states, which I'm sure the U.S. would prefer.

Here's another fun fact: the famous Chinese actor Wu Jing (the Wolf Warrior and war movie guy) is not Han. He's Manchu. But 99.9% of Manchus don't speak Manchu anymore. Possibly 90% wouldn't even realize they are Manchu until they read their ID card, and once they do, they probably won't give a shit at all. If they see an American talking about social justice for Manchus or a Manchu state, they will definitely lol at it. So Manchu is so assimilated nowadays that it's basically just an ID-card ethnic group that exists for the sake of "political harmony."

Also here's a bonus YCL graphic from the USA.

Ethnic identity is important to a degree, some cultures are inherently more revolutionary than others, and the revolutionary culture must form the basis for purified proletarian culture that reactionary cultures must fold into

>>689691
>>689687
If there was no such recognition the meme of "muh Red Russian Empire" would have been actually true and there would be a thousand Chechnyas

>>688513
Get Raza Cosmica-pilled. Mix races and intermingle cultures so much that a single homogenous national identity emerges.

>>689687
>>689691
Correct.

>>690190
im not a “luxemburgist” that’s not even a real thing
>>690194
stalinism has always been nationalist

>>690454
What is the source of Rosa's quote? I've seen this meme so often, I have to read the original text now

>>690464
it’s probably a summary of her arguments here:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1905/misc/polish-question.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1896/07/polish-question.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1909/national-question/index.htm

>>688513
Cuz nationality is an actual material thing people feel and has developed through history in a group of people that started to share a common language, cultural traditions, rulers, historical evens and so on.

>>690464
The National Question (1909)

>>688513
>ethnicity is idealism
lmao sage