Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:05:03 No. 688664
All small buissness owners aren’t one person
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:17:44 No. 688680
Easy, they feel like their nationalist state would side with then than international corporations. Basically, they want to have the opportunity to become big bourgeois without the competition of having to face larger more successful businesses. Obviously this is insane and fascist states still elevated the big corporations in the end with a little regulation here and there to "protect" small business, not for long though.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:19:49 No. 688683
Why don't you look at Democrats during COVID
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:20:15 No. 688684
>>688683 retarded or smart*
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:23:39 No. 688689
>>688660 The middle classes are not a uniform bloc but tend to be more conservative and nationalistic than others, and are not prepared for revolutionary activity. Think of the U.S. Capitol smol biz owners and real estate persons facing an economic downgrade and being pulled into political action but having little experience at wild protests so they're livestreaming their crimes for everyone to see. They're more open to agitation by demagogues preaching national glory while the most reactionary sections of the big bourgeoisie are behind it – and those guys are trying to pull together a mass movement to overcome a crisis that has logjammed the system, which they can't do on their own.
The middle class is the natural base to go to. But not just them. Failure of socialists to build a working-class movement leading to demoralization which opens an opportunity to pull in disaffected people from the ranks of the working class.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:24:02 No. 688690
>>688683 They’re the same fucking party
And they both did exactly what your saying. Republifucks only did the corporate part more quietly
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:25:12 No. 688691
>>688690 >They’re the same fucking party They behaved entirely different during COVID. A person owning a businesses won't view these complete opposite actions the same
They don't have the same values and goals as you. Keeping their business open is very important to them
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:29:57 No. 688699
>>688691 No they aren’t different
They still refuse to do anything about debt
They still refuse to fund education so we don’t have to rely on immigrants to fulfill professional jobs the native born population doesn’t meet the requirements for
They still refuse to crackdown on the war on drugs and the food industry that make public healthcare impossible to provide and Americans fatter beyond saveable
They still refuse to do anything about the fact that wealth inequality here is worse than Ancient Rome since capitalists need circulation of a limited supply of capital all directed towards them
They stilll refuse to stay out of foreign affairs, sanctions Afghanistan after abondoning it in ruins, sanctioned China and blamed the supply crisis on civilians and won’t end the second Cold War started on October 7th 2021
And they sure as shit aren’t gonna fix any of the other problems in this dogshit country much less strive to do anything beyond fuck over civilians to investors and actual Zionists
Fuck you shill
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:30:09 No. 688700
Why would’t they?
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:31:16 No. 688702
>>688696 Cool. People notice these distinct differences and it decides how they vote.
Same as when protest for BLM happened country wide in the usa the democrats were far more lax and lenient with them. Protest that involve theft of small businesses, destruction of stores and curfews that slow down business
Meanwhile Republicans called for shutting them down and putting a stop to it.
As a small businesses owner these are a distinct differences that impact your everyday life. Because you don't value these things and see it all as worthless because it's not a communism or socialism is irrelevant to these people, these are things that impact their career.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:35:20 No. 688709
>>688699 I didn't mention any of this. I discussed only the approach to COVID shut downs. Which were different.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:37:09 No. 688712
>>688709 One borderline insignificant policy changes nothing asshole
I want those 2 parties completely destroyed because that’s the only change that’ll give anyone in this shithole temporary relief
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:38:20 No. 688714
>>688712 >One borderline insignificant policy changes nothing asshole Insignificant to you. Not a person who has to have their whole business shut down. Again this is a difference of values between you and the sample business owner.
This decision doesn't impact you so you don't care about it. For them it's what makes them money
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:38:46 No. 688716
>>688714 Small business owner*
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:39:58 No. 688719
>>688714 Who gives a shit about small bourgeois?
Those guys don’t even employ the most wage labourers anymore since regean totally not a scamonomics sold off the entire American labour force off to shitty tech and 60s era companies
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:40:51 No. 688720
>>688719 Obviously a small bourgeois doesn't share views with a communist. All I'm presenting you is their perspective of how they view this.
Either you care about them or not it remains as real that is their analysis of these decisions
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 21:49:43 No. 688729
>>688720 uygha, everyone here knows the bourgeois parties serve only their interest.
Your perspective has 0 value here.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 22:24:55 No. 688762
How has literally no one just linked Marx regarding the petit-bourgeosie? Also, they fundamentally still want capitalism, but at the same time dislike the inherently centralizing and monopolistic affects of capitalism, and so are trapped in a bind where they are more open towards accepting ideologies which not only promise a "return" to a "better" capitalism, or the introduction of a capitalism which "works", but one which also offers more direct opposition to anti-capitalist discontent. For the bourgeoisie proper, fascism is a stop gap measure, and for the petit-bourgeoisie, it's the promise of a capitalism that somehow also lacks what is fundamental to it.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 22:54:58 No. 688799
>>688789
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 22:55:43 No. 688800
Small business owners are the most reactionary and anti-communist group of people in the world. Even the richest PMC Labor Aristocrat is better.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 22:57:41 No. 688802
>>688789 >implying that small businesses don't rely on said "hordes of wetbacks"
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:01:11 No. 688810
>>688802 Honestly, they probably fly under the radar easier when it comes to employing illegal aliens.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:04:51 No. 688817
>>688814
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:05:43 No. 688819
>>688814
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:10:04 No. 688824
>>688814 >thinking we care about your white family business in the first place
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:13:31 No. 688828
>>688826 >everyone who disagrees with me is x
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:14:20 No. 688830
>>688814 >imagine believing beaners have money
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:15:26 No. 688832
>>688789
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:22:27 No. 688846
Fascism/Third positionism is the only threat to big capital.
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:24:22 No. 688848
>>688846 because the USSR was going to win mong,you don't side with losers every porky that won money in Nazi germ got free with a slap on the wrist and a """apology""" for arming the reich.
junko !!9cfznBf./Q 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:24:45 No. 688849
>>688683 The easier for me to nationalize
Anonymous 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:25:29 No. 688850
>>688846 ah yes, it was the capitalist that allied with soviet russia, nothing happened inbetween, the germans definitely didn't invade…
junko !!9cfznBf./Q 2022-01-12 (Wed) 23:25:34 No. 688853
>>688846 >Why do you think the great capitalists of the world allied with Soviet Russia against Germany? Check out the Russian civil war it'll blow your mind
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 03:09:47 No. 689257
>>688930 I can’t help but marvel at Right-wing Christians sometimes.
The way they can deflect from their ruthless behavior and treat it as an externality of the system they uphold, while at the same time moralizing about it is stunning.
I wouldn’t be able to live with the cognitive dissonance.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 08:09:28 No. 689453
>>688683 >They shut down small businesses Based. Don't care about the rest
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 08:49:48 No. 689465
>>688846 >Fascism/Third positionism is the only threat to big capital. <- >>688660 "small business owner" isn't an actual economic class
urban petit-bourgeois tend to align with reactionary politics for the same reasons that unemployed lumpenproletariat and small landholding patriarchal peasants do: a lack of immediate class contradiction against capital. once in a while, individuals from that class will be based and communist but it's more of an exception than anything else
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 08:51:09 No. 689467
>>689465 >a lack of immediate class contradiction against capital and also their own petty social forms of exploitation
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 12:54:07 No. 689608
>>688660 Which countries? Fascism has not been politically relevant since WW2 outside of some paramilitary organizations, particularly during the Years of Lead.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 12:56:22 No. 689610
>>689608 Fascism has been the operating procedure of every pro-US government with a significant communist presence since the end of WWII
It’s still fascism even when it’s happening to non-whites
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 13:33:51 No. 689621
Because they are petty tyrants who want to do nothing a live like a rich porky. That said, there's plenty of small business owners who are actually decent people who associate more closely with the workers than with business owners.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:05:01 No. 689730
>>689708 >small business owners >the actual working class
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:19:08 No. 689750
>>689708 >muh sexual deviancy
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:23:18 No. 689754
>>689750 its hilarious when "communists" support massive neo liberal moves at the expense of the working class
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:26:02 No. 689762
>>688846 >fascism is the only threat to capital the nazis literally privatized the economy and were in bed with siemens, IG farben, krupps etc retard
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:30:10 No. 689765
>>688846 >Why do you think the great capitalists of the world allied with Soviet Russia against Germany? Because the germans were causing more trouble for them. you know, by starting an actual war and spraying bombs all over the damn place
fucking hell I'd tell you to read a book but frankly it looks like you don't even have common sense
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:30:49 No. 689766
>>689747
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:44:09 No. 689782
>>689754 >>689760 In the US small business generally pay worse wages and offer less benefits than their much larger competitors. Much of this owing to economies of scale (allowing a larger share of revenue to be allocated to payroll expenses while remaining profitable), favorable government contracts (which smol porky has no access to) and depending on the industry, strong unions
Small business tyrants can't compete which is why their position is so precarious, and why they resort to wage theft, hiring illegals, not offering benefits, pressuring workers into unpaid overtime, evading regulations and more
Communists shouldn't give one fuck about the disappearance of this class - many of which are neither willing or able to pay a living wage to their workers (i.e. the bare minimum to survive on), and who have proven consistently to be the most reactionary second only to perhaps landlords (and in places like America, there's much overlap between them) - the ones that cheered on the Reaganite "revolution"" (which ironically fucked over this same class of small proprietors long term), and have stood at the forefront of every anti-socialist movement going back to the Paris Commune
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:50:07 No. 689790
>>689782 >small businesses pay less wages >Small business tyrants can't compete! This ad was paid for and sponsored by Wallmart™
The constant simping for mega corps is straight out of /r/neoliberal then you try and mask it with genuine criticism of its competitors.
I don't think these people are actual neoliberals but they've swallowed the koolaid enough to simp megacorporation,
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 15:55:37 No. 689800
>>688660 >Theyre equally affected by multinational corporations taking their place in the market That is exactly why they flock to fascism. The small business owner, who exploits the proletariat mercilessly (in the US at least, often even worse than the megacorps as many regulations/laws don't apply to businesses under x amount of employees), knows exactly what it is to be a prole, and they do NOT want it. The petite bourgeoisie is terrified of being proletarianized. Fascism rails against "globalism" and promises to put the interests of "the nation" above that of the "globalists" like the multinational corps. Fascism promises the petite bourgeoisie that they will be the backbone of the economy, they will not lose out to the multinationals, they will not be proletarianized. For this reason, the small businesses owners are the core supporters of the fascist movement. Fascism is THE ideology of the small business owner.
(Big porkies are on top of the current system. In "good" times they are not interested in a movement that promises change and "revolution." Although they are of course more than happy to make use of it when it is needed to put down socialist movements that are growing in strength. And of course, in power fascism serves big porky. But when out of power, and not needed at present for big porky, it is largely despised by big porkies, and is a movement of the small business owner).
>>689754 small business owners are not the working class lol. Capitalism tends towards large, centralized firms (they are more efficient) and the extinction of small businesses. We shed no tears for the small business owner, we welcome this. But that does not mean we love or support big porky, merely that these large, efficient, centralized concerns are perfect to seize and nationalize come revolution. They are the base on which to build socialism.
>>688846 Imperialists fight amongst each other. Do you have any idea how profitable looting Germany was for America?
>>689790 >explaining how capitalism works is simping for mega corps!!!! no
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 16:10:37 No. 689813
>>689800 >small business owners are not the working class lol. no one said they were retard :^)
>Capitalism tends towards large, centralized firms (they are more efficient) and the extinction of small businesses this doesn't justify simping for large corporations
>We shed no tears for the small business owner, we welcome this. when called out on your simping for large corporations you resort to valid criticism of small business quite telling.
>But that does not mean we love or support big porky then why are you spending so much time loving and supporting big porky?
>They are the base on which to build socialism doubt,
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 16:39:34 No. 689859
>>689767 you're the one that can't read your own fucking posts lmao
>>689679 >>689708 Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 16:49:48 No. 689874
>>689790 Seething failed small business owner. Let Walmart run all the wannabe porkies out of business and turn them into proles. More exploited workers on our side. :^)
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 16:53:17 No. 689886
>>689884 so where is the historical president for this then
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 16:55:52 No. 689893
>>689888 I'm not doubting the theory I'm doubting the practicality
now if the claim is that large corporation help build socialism, I'm asking if there is a historical president for this or is it just some schizo's theory
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:04:43 No. 689909
>>689888 >now if the claim is that large corporation help build socialism, I'm asking if there is a historical president for this or is it just some schizo's theory I don't know, but there haven't been corporations of this size or with the same level of technological advancement up until fairly recently. Plus, it's just common sense- it would be a lot easier for a revolutionary government to nationalize a few large monopolies than it would be for them to nationalize thousands of small businesses.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:06:07 No. 689913
>>689886 >historical precedent well, one could make the argument that it will cause a less turbulent transition once the revolution comes if the property is more concentrated.
I can imagine that the average normie wouldn't be too worried if bezos or gates had their property seized, but if you come for all the smaller businesses? All the moms and pops? Could get ugly.
I guess this was one of the problems of many socialist countries. take collectivization of land, when the big aristocrats lost their land, everyone was on the same side, when dekulakization started… not so much.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:15:31 No. 689925
>>689893 If the argument is the organization and technology developped by thoses corporation to maximize profit would be easily repurposed for a socialist mode of production, i guess the historical precedent would be the policies and infrastructure build under feudal rule that would constitute the basis for capitalists markets?
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:19:02 No. 689930
>>689893 >now if the claim is that large corporation help build socialism, I'm asking if there is a historical president for this or is it just some schizo's theory The claim isn't that large corporations are going to help build socialism (like of their own choosing). Its that when they are seized what they built will provide a strong material base on which to build socialism. This isn't a schizo's theory, its Marx's.
Now, since every country that has had a successful socialist revolution hasn't been an advanced industrial nation, but a backwards one, they have all had to deal in one way or another with the huge problem of not having the advanced industrial base on which to build socialism, which has led to various theories and attempts at dealing with this problem: NEP, Great Leap Forward, "Dengism", market socialism, rapid industrialism via 5 year plans, etc. Obviously, I think some of these were better than others, but the point is if an advanced industrial nation went socialist, they wouldn't have to do anything like that as what is needed would largely already be at hand.
The small business owner dream of returning to a small producer economy is not only not realistic, it would be moving away from socialism.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:22:53 No. 689933
>>689913 >well, one could make the argument that it will cause a less turbulent transition once the revolution comes if the property is more concentrated but again thats just vague theory and wishful thinking
>I can imagine that the average normie wouldn't be too worried if bezos or gates had their property seized, but if you come for all the smaller businesses? All the moms and pops? Could get ugly. could easily be countered with I can imagine that the average normie wouldn't be too worried if the moms and pops had their property seized, but if you come for all the larger businesses? bezos or gates? Could get ugly.
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:26:14 No. 689935
>>689930 >The claim isn't that large corporations are going to help build socialism (like of their own choosing). Its that when they are seized what they built will provide a strong material base on which to build socialism. This isn't a schizo's theory, its Marx's. If all it is is Marx then we don't need that book then
ok and?
this implies small business owner's have a dream of returning to a small producer economy
which is not the case
what is it you're actually positing?
Anonymous 2022-01-13 (Thu) 17:26:51 No. 689936
>>689925 >If the argument is the organization and technology developped by thoses corporation to maximize profit would be easily repurposed for a socialist mode of production, i guess the historical precedent would be the policies and infrastructure build under feudal rule that would constitute the basis for capitalists markets? but that has little to do with that is happening now
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 05:50:17 No. 690513
>>688702 Maybe the small business owners should pick up coding :^)
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 05:53:59 No. 690516
>>690513 it's funny how the middle class is usually the ones that smugly parrot "learn coding" when wage labour and proletarianization will always exist under capitalism, meanwhile the middle class regularly gets expropriated and thrown out into the streets to starve by capitalists
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 05:55:03 No. 690518
>>690516 "middle class" as in petit-bourgeois
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 06:06:56 No. 690523
>>690516 Are coders not proletarians?
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 06:30:50 No. 690540
>>690523 idk, i think it's been reduced to salaried work at this point. doesn't matter, what does matter is that a small business owner is actually on the whole more precarious than the proles that they look down on
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 07:22:51 No. 690582
>>690579
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 07:28:49 No. 690591
>>690589
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 08:13:31 No. 690657
>>688660 The petite bourgeoise are squeezed out and proletarianized over time by the international bourgeoisie. They're materially opposed to Socialism since they're still dependent on exploitation, so blaming their condition on some malignant influence within Capitalism is their only way of making sense of the world. Basically they believe that Capitalism should be a Dictatorship of the Petite Bourgeoisie and the fact that it isn't is a result of Da Jooz or Globalism or Crony Capitalism etc.
Anonymous 2022-01-14 (Fri) 09:08:27 No. 690710
>>688660 >But it seems that most of them flock to fascists in the long run. >small business owners What else do you expect?
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