/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Take your same post and replace socialism with fascism and post your response

Because the world isn't determined by ideas.

>If socialism is so good and such a smart system then why isn't it more popular with the masses?
Because capitalists dominate the media and education system, I get polyps are retarded but did you seriously need to ask?
>Why aren't socialist/communist parties rising to power all over the world since your idea for society is supposedly the most generous and humane?
That's happened multiple times all over the world for the past two centuries, just because a communist party rises doesn't mean the ruling class will just allow itself to be destroyed. With the West in particular, theyve pretty much always relied on imposing suffering on non-Europeans to gain loyalty from westoids, but inevitably the QoL for westoids will fall regardless as the RoP in the West trends downwards and workers in other countries organize to increase their own living standards which slowly brings down global wage differentials.
>Why is it that communism has mostly dissipated all over the world?
Because communism doesn't make you immune to bullets

>why isn’t it popular with the masses
Depends where you are. In the west it is pretty popular. But then you have the fact that the media is owned by capitalists who push a capital agenda. You can cry about Muh lefty media if you want, it’s a ludicrous position to take however, unless you are really denying that the people who own the media are capitalists, and you think they are self sacrificing or something.

Then you have the fact that this capitalist class also own and control all the others organs of power, the state, the police, the military etc. Most importantly, the intelligence services, which they use to subvert and attack socialism at every stage.

>why hadn’t the world risen up
It has tho lmao. What do you think the Cold War was? The vast majority of Latin American countries has a popular socialist movement, as in south east Asia, China and Russia, a large amount of Eastern Europe, many countries in Africa and the Middle East.

I suggest you educate yourself on just exactly how many countries have had socialist movements, and what the west did to oppose them, who they backed. Look at Indonesia, Nicaragua, etc

>>689699
If a material ontology is so good and such a smart system then why isn't it more popular with the masses?

>>689703
>>689715
how many people actually fall for propaganda though? and it doesn't determine material forces at the end of the day anyways, like >>689699 said

>>689695
>/pol/ tourist here with a genuine question: If socialism is so good and such a smart system then why isn't it more popular with the masses?
It's massively popular with the masses
Most of the ruling or opposition parties on somewhere as reactionary as Europe are Socialist parties
Communism has never been more popular in Russia which is why the Communist Party (2nd largest) is now so popular Putin is throwing out anticapitalist statements like the attached

I'm impressed you can come here with the audacity tbh… US society is falling apart at the seams as you've just replaced one dementia patient with another

It's like the Chernenko era of the USSR

>>689718
>how many people fall for propoganda
Fucking loads of them.

>world isn’t determined by ideas
Hence the second part of my post

>>689718
Shit goes wrong way before people "fall for propaganda".
Under capitalism, schools are wagecuck factories. People internalize capitalist ideology at an early age. Those trivial exercises which insult your intelligence? The real lessons were ideology and obedience.

Because the imperialist block has subverted, sabotaged, assassinated, bombed, etc any people, country or movement that got enough support

>>689737
Isn't that criticism of the system? It can never defend it self or gain any support

>>689695
I was thinking about modernism and postmodernism the other day. And I think you can see the difference in what postmodernism rejects, like grand meta-narratives (which Jordan Peterson complains about when he talks about postmodernism).

To put it in terms of aesthetics, postmodernism is the obsession with surface appearance, superficiality, and identity at the expense of grand narratives and historical movements. All life is part of normalcy, all resistance is itself a part of the functioning of the system, and all alternatives are unimaginable. Life simply goes on.

So you could say that describes the left, but as Zizek pointed out, the most postmodern figure in the West is Donald Trump. He's a pastiche who repeated conservative mantras about family and society, while gloating about not paying taxes and acting in a very vulgar way and being proud of it, which confronts the antagonism at the heart of modern conservatism as the stable communities they want are undermined by the same economic forces favored by conservatives. But he's doing a performance like Kamala Harris is when she signals about racial justice while being a career prosecutor turned regime official.

Anyways, I think that for the Western left anyways, the old-style class struggle exhausted itself in the 20th century, and what's called "identity politics" was an attempt to keep a radical tradition alive at all. In other words, the class struggle was co-opted first and rendered politically impotent in the West via a combination of repression (purging communists from unions in the 50s which "depoliticized" the unions) and providing selective benefits to some, like sufficient wages and health plans provided by employers – and also mass homeownership provided by cheap credit as a form of capitalist "central planning" and "welfare" – organized along sectional lines (white workers benefiting much more than black workers) which had the effect of breaking up the working class while selectively repressing / co-opting different sectors of it.

But that system is reaching a dead end. In other words, it leads to the question of what happens to every empire, which is: what happens when the money runs out? That middle-class stability is no longer possible for a lot of structural reasons which Marxists talk about all the time, and since base determines superstructure, without economic "supply" to support the political superstructure of "liberal democracy" then the society stops seeming so "democratic" and populists, nationalists, and socialists arise once again.

>>689744
tldr

>>689749
tldw

>>689741
It has defended itself in many instances. It is trying to overthrow a system that has had hundreds of years to engrain itself. Do you think capitalism just came out of feudalism in one fell swoop? No, it took time, things went forwards, then backwards, even now in some places feudal systems endure.

Imagine if people had applied the same heuristic to basically any invention or scientific discovery, oh well we didn’t make electricity first time, it must suck let’s not bother again, even tho I guess we made that light glow for a minute, but then it shorted out, must not be worth anything.

Funny for all you reactionaries go on about le great men with the conquerer spirit or whatever, you completely fail to demonstrate any of it and come out with cowardly weak ass shit like this

>>689748
don't bother reading this, this anon 689744 shits on class struggle and shills for identity politics

>>689741
It is a criticism of capitalism, since it can't defend itself without resorting to genocide. Also, early capitalist reovlutions were crushed and feudalism was restored, it took several centuries for capitalism to actually establish itself (bringing with it the biggest slavery system probably in history) and then a couple of centuries to win over the rest of the world. And this was just one ruling class replacing another, not complete emansipation. USSR was hundreds time more successfull than any first capitalist nations and brought a lots of freedoms not only for it's citizens, but for the rest of the world. Stuff like vacation, sick leave, 8hr work day and many other worker rights and rights for racial maniroties and women. And as we can see by looking at the last 30 years, capitalism is very quick to take those back. Even succdem countries suffer from reduction in every social benefit. both in quantity and quality.

>>689770
You could make the same argument about feudalism coming back but we all know it's not coming back. This "argument" allows you to act like anything you can imagine is possible

>>689695
>he actually believes we live in an intellectual meritocracy
lmao

>>689717
>he actually thinks that the free marketplace of ideas exists
again, lmao

>>689776
>>689777
A better example than Feudalism would be Anarchism probably.

>>689718

>how many people actually fall for propaganda though?

I mean, you, for starters.

>>689777
No because I deal in concrete material realities and not the realm of abstract ideas. There is no movement for feudalism coming back that actualises itself in anything real. Perhaps you could say techbro neoreaction/neo feudalism is a movement that may take hold, fair, but it wouldn’t be the feudalism of old, rather a new form of neofeudalism. It’s certainly possible, but for the majority of people myself included it would suck so I oppose it and resist it.

It’s not the same argument, because around the world today we do see a new wave of socialist resistance. In Latin America, for example huge amounts, Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Peru, Nicaragua, Cuba, Honduras, Uruguay, Haiti, Brazil, I could go around the whole world, your problem is you have burger brains and don’t pay attention to the news that matters

>>689780
What are you talking about? Capitalism replacing feudalism is what actually happened in real world and we can learn from history. It didn't happen immideately and took a lot of blood and wars with setbacks to actually achieve. Same with socialism, no one in the right mind will expect that establishing absolutely new social order will be easy and comes monetarily without old social order fighting back tooth and nail, using every underhanded tactics imaginable and inventing new ones.

It seems you are not understanding our arguments at all. The fuck anarchism has even to do with it?

YOUVE POSTED THIS THREAD SO MANY FUCKING TIMES WITH THE SAME FORMAT
FUCK
OFF
SAGE AND REPORTED

>>689784
>don’t pay attention to the news that matters
Well, that's part of the problem. Mainstream media will NEVER get a good spotlight for actually progressive movements, either completely ignoring or if it is not possible smearing it as hard as possible. Actually finding news like this is not an easy task and requires training and expertise.

>/pol/ tourist here with a genuine–
Sage goes in all fields

>>689718
>how many people actually fall for propaganda though?
The vast majority of people will believe the things they're told all their lives by those with authority
If propaganda didn't work states and private interests wouldnt spend billions to produce it

>>689784
All of those places that have had economic miracles by opening up to private property and a huge increase of standard of living. I see them all going more capitalist.

>>689695
Aren't you a fascist, even though that's a totally fringe ideology?

>>689815
>had economic miracles
All those places were on the border of USSR and recieved shitload of investments and credits at a VERY low rate and USA internal market was open for them. They were basically a showcase that "capitalism can do it too". As soon as USSR was donme away with, suddenly the only thing those countries got is increasingly hellish working conditions and constant recession. The only one that still recieves some help is South Korea for obvious reasons. A country with highest rates of suicides per capita. Truly an economic miracle and great standards of living.

>>689815
This is just wildly inaccurate

>>689828
Most of those idiots still think think about the world in stereotypes of 80s and early 90s.

>>689827
>suddenly the only thing those countries got is increasingly hellish working conditions and constant recession.
I wonder why

>>689828
How am I wrong put any of those countries in with the world "Miracle" in it and you will see the huge increase of living standards and every economic measure along with a country whose population has no interest in going socialist

>>689726
>all the articles and polls made right after the 2008/9 crisis
how do i sage a post?

>>689842
Yes, it is even more popular now after 2014-15 and current crisis. Especially popular among people who actually lived in USSR.

Increasingly shitty conditions make people desire for alternative especially people who actualy seen one. Who would have thought.

>>689815
>All of those places that have had economic miracles by opening up to private property and a huge increase of standard of living. I see them all going more capitalist.

nobody tell him

>>689840
GDP fucking collapsed in the easter bloc after the fall of communism

I'm not even a fucking tankie but good god man get your info from somewhere that isn't blatant status quo apologia

>>689881
*eastern, fucking hell I'm a retard

>>689881
>status quo apologia
From several decades ago even

nice bait OP

>>689741
All that means was that it wasn't aggressive and voracious enough at the time, and should be such in any future iteration. What the 21st century proves is that one has to be global in their expansion to supersede a global system.

>>689881
You mean those mostly capitalist countries that became less capitalist after the collapse lol

>>689726
Based, Eastern Europeans are realizing what they took from us.