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File: 1642199260536.png (4.87 KB, 225x225, wsws.png)

 No.691581[Last 50 Posts]

How does a tiny splinter Trot sect have the best socialist/labor publication in the world?

Can someone explain this to me. I'm seriously considering joining the SEP JUST because their news site is 10/10 and if they can run that shit with like, 12 guys, imagine how many readers they could pull if they actually had a real membership base.


Dedication I guess? Also I doubt they could get that many more readers even with more members, unless they had money to advertise and started writing schizo articles that appeal to conspiratards, it's lonely having non-mainstream views yet not being batshit insane.


hey david


>How does a tiny splinter Trot sect have the best socialist/labor publication in the world?
Is that an joke? These guys end movie reviews with
<and this is why the working class needs to rise up to liberate themselves of the Stalinist trade-union liquidationists and overthrow the government under the leadership of the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI).


Trots have always gotten generous funding from the bourgeoisie.


Might I interest you in Le Monde diplomatique?
It is vastly superior.


Well if you go to a socialist newspaper for movie reviews what do you expect


File: 1642199508914.png (1.17 MB, 750x1000, 1642014456963.png)

Weird Sex With Soyjak


They have virtually 24/7 coverage of basically every notable strike action that occurs in any part of the world. This is unheard for an independent press organ; yes, their culture articles are cringe and their sectarian shit-flinging is downright schizo, but credit where credit is due.


Why should a socialist newspaper not have a feuilleton?


New Multitude is better.


Well if they always tell striking workers to NOT join a union because something something "stalinist trade union bureaucracy" they are doing wrecker shit nonetheless.


Nothing wrong with it, but of course they're gonna shove socialist talking points awkwardly in there

Did they actually say that, or did you just imagine they said that?


The SEP is notorious for their anti-union rhetoric. They constantly call for "worker committees" to be created instead of unions, worker committees which of course are only supposed to function as a front organization of the SEP.

And yes, they call the AFL–CIO "Stalinist", I haven't an article to prove it but I am 90% sure that they did call them that.


>Nothing wrong with it, but of course they're gonna shove socialist talking points awkwardly in there
I mean, it's not like bourgeois movie critics are not apolitical. Just read the critics on Rotten Tomatoes for movies like "Don't Look Up" or "Joker" and they all shoehorn in their own liberal takes on the movie.

I would just like it if it wasn't in-your-face, everytime I read Trot and Maoist outlets that do cultural stuff, I feel like I am being preached to.


I mean modern American unions do deserve criticism, but I've never seen a WSWS article go full on like 'fuck this union for being stalinist'


So they run a decent newspaper
Why does this make them a good revolutionary party?
The fact that they’ve done nothing else of value would suggest that they’re shit tier for political programs and revolutionary organization


Yeah but they’re also retarded enough to call fucking Gorbachev and goddamned Yeltsin “stalinists” so….


Didn't they call Putin a Stalinist once?


They trigger nazi professors, so I guess they are quite based


Pretty sure they call him that regularly since almost every single article they write feels the need to remind the reader about the events of 1989-1991 and the history of whoever they’re discussing at length


They are exceptionally well funded and dedicate almost all their political energy to writing articles for the WSWS. Every one of those "12 guys" (I think closer to 20) is paid a salary as a professional revolutionary to churn out one derivative article a day.

How did they acquire this much cash? According to public financial documents, their unchallenged leader, David North, is a multimillionaire literal capitalist who owned (recently sold) a 25 million dollar company. North pays the salaries and therefore writes the political line, all resolutions at party congresses are approved "unanimously". Besides North I suspect there are other rich heirs donating money to the org, what with North's cultish videos urging to make "the largest donation possible" so that the WSWS can expose the Pabloites et al before we have a third world war fought with nuclear weapons.


Yes? Good? Fuck class unconscious unions. If a union isn't tied to a communist party and class conscious politics, it's fucking worse than useless.

They got some DSA podcasters assaulted, because the union leaders mistook them for WSWS representatives, so the reason they cover strike actions so much, is that they know their audience and cater to it to the max.


File: 1642201876157.jpeg (95.99 KB, 683x900, DDfx-NZUIAAb9Xx.jpeg)

>If a union isn't tied to a communist party and class conscious politics, it's fucking worse than useless.

This is absolutely not true and you are just shitting on the entire legacy of the labour movement.


Seethe and cope, trade unionism in the US was stronger and more relevant, when it was literally illegal.


Indeed, trade unions are stupid. Also, please report any suspicious activity to your supervisor.


The US trade movement accomplished the majority of its most successful initiatives either at the behest of the IWW in the late 1910's/early 1920's or with the help of the early CIO in the 1930's, whose most active and militant locals were strongly sympathetic to the CPUSA and/or the Communist League.

I wouldn't go so far as to say trade unions have NEVER accomplished anything without communists, but certainly there's a correlation.


Not that tankies aren’t being retarded as usual, but if anything the actual history of the labor movement proves that anon’s point


they just dump a lot of shit, that's it
by fucking far


Read the UK Weekly Worker. Yes it's weekly instead of daily, but as a result the articles are much better quality. There's also an actual diversity of opinions and debate, unlike the WSWS where they all parrot the party line and end every article with "This international struggle requires an international leadership, united internationally by the International Committee of the Fourth International".


>They got some DSA podcasters assaulted, because the union leaders mistook them for WSWS representatives
Holy shit this whole situation is so fucking funny. The retarded union bosses not getting their orgs straight and calling the black dude "boy", the WSWS pissing off a union so much by writing an article that they start attacking people, and the DSA guys not having any clue what's going on. You can't make this shit up.


Newspapers are the only thing trots are good at


Vid related:


File: 1642206918005.jpg (874.55 KB, 583x5627, le ebin otaku.jpg)

Did the article poster get banned over here?


Oh My God how did I miss this

>Using openly racist language, Blankenship threatened to kill one of the podcasters, who is black, shouting “I’ll beat your mother f*cking brains out, boy.” A video recording of the incident has now been viewed thousands of times. The UMWA leaders attacked the podcasters under the mistaken belief they were members of the Socialist Equality Party and writers for the World Socialist Web Site.


File: 1642207051015.jpeg (4.5 KB, 262x192, descarga.jpeg)

Please tell me this is a fake.


I'm pretty sure it's fake (at least it's not accessible on the WSWS). It does slot in perfectly with some of the other real anime reviews they've done in the past though.


So it's FUD? Why are you doing cop work for free?


This so called "review" is a malicious falsification of the Marxist media critique of the World Socialist Website. You can not find it anywhere in its 24 year history of daily articles and analysis. It represents an infantile attempt to discredit the political legacy of Leon Trotsky through the medium of online "memes".

In addition to the political history of neo-Stalinist politics present in anonymous online political discourse, one would be remiss not to mention the role played by memes and the abridged, curbed, and distorted character of online speech in general for maintaining political ignorance. Memes are the opiate of the online masses. Whatever idea or history can not fit within a meme is simply discarded as useless. "Sentimental formlessness, absence of disciplined thought, ignorance along with gaudy erudition - all these minuses turn into pluses." - Trotsky

Too many young people derive their political education from Twitter posts and Youtube videos. Political development means assembling the "dankest" and "spiciest" arsenal of memes and slogans; political practice is puking them up on queue. Political views, IE sophomoric impressions, replicate like viruses. Just like the ICFI's call for the eradication of Covid-19, eradicating this memetic ideological plague demands a hard turn to a scientific, rigorous, and comprehensive study of economics, history, and philosophy from the standpoint of revolutionary struggle. The effort to educate the working masses is partly the struggle against the hypnotic influence of social networking.

There is the filthy content of these ideas and there is also their specific form. Unfortunately the latter does seem to be bound up with broader structural problems in terms of how youth are made to circulate and consume political ideas online. That might require more attention and can't simply be dismissed. After all the WSWS also struggles to exert its own influence throughout social networks. As to these specific political half-wits and imbeciles of "Leftypol", we should grant that there is ample place in politics for satire, for well-directed and intelligently applied humor, and yes, perhaps even "meming". All the great Marxists were masters in that regard. Notice, in contrast, how these sad sacks manage to be simultaneously unserious and unfunny.


Dude I’m fucking dying


We're not talking about the DSA here. We're talking about W-S-W-S in front of the c-h-i-l-d-r-e-n.

>Weird Sex Web Site!? I thought they shut that place down!


Good read.


File: 1642220646258.jpg (212.08 KB, 1456x1067, 1638468440364.jpg)

I read them regularly for many years but their COVID takes are literal dogshit.

>The workers DEMAND indefinite lockdowns!


Aren't they payrolled by some random millionaire?


Wtf lmao



is this image fucking real


11/10 shitpost


What's up with this David North guy


Wrong, faggot.


File: 1642291886030.jpeg (9.64 KB, 300x266, geraldhorne.jpeg)

Their analysis of other left parties is downright comical at times, but I have appreciated their recent critique of the 1619 Project. I especially appreciated their takedown of this charlatan's Race War Theory of History and the historical fabrication he pushes to support it.


How is it wrong faggot?


Proper lockdown = free general strike. If you say "no" to a general strike, deposit yourself into a trash can, where you belong.


This. Anti-lockdown "leftists" are extremely confused and operating at a level of class consciousness even lower than many apolitical proles.


>just be ok with not working bro


i think they just want to be contrarian honestly.


Obviously a lockdown would entail substantial relief/stimulus payments to workers. For a full, proper lockdown to even work this would be a necessity, even from the perspective of the capitalist class. A working class not allowed to work, with no income, is a recipe for disaster for the capitalists.
Many of them *are* just reactive contrarians, but that in and of itself represents a very vague and confused political ideology. You can't have any sound principles if your opinions are based off just doing the exact opposite of whatever Democrats say to do.


>implying your job will still be there when lockdowns are over
yeah, no.


There's a very realistic chance of getting fired if you go on strike, but you'd be a retard if you said people shouldn't go on strike because of that.


I'm not talking about striking, just lockdowns. I've gone through 4 (FOUR) fucking jobs in 2 years


I know, but I'm taking the comparison of a lockdown to a general strike to its logical conclusion. Even if there's a real threat of losing your job, for the working class as a whole it's a good thing and we have to support it.
(Sorry about your shitty situation friend, I hope things get better for you.)


How could we handle this differently? We need to be tougher against thugs like this. They shouldn't have just folded.

David North is probably a pseudonym. Articles online say he is David W. Green that owns Grand River Printing and Imaging, but that's not true. The only hits for this business are theories that its owned by David North. https://grpi.net/ is owned by somebody else.

Who the fuck is this guy and where does the money for WSWS come from? If there is a secret source of funds for left wing causes, I want in.


>A working class not allowed to work, with no income, is a recipe for disaster for the capitalists.
Evidence from the earlier lockdown(s) suggests they'll put people on bare minimum "survival"-level payments that aren't even sufficient for making monthly rent, automate some of the jobs, and run ragged the people they keep employed.


Anti-union, pure idealism


>How could we handle this differently? We need to be tougher against thugs like this. They shouldn't have just folded.
We're not the DSA.

Okay, so you already capitulated to porky. Why are you here? Go argue against immigration.


>Their analysis of other left parties is downright comical at times, but I have appreciated their recent critique of the 1619 Project.
Trots exposed as Eurocentric chauvinists yet again


They don't.


As if a capitalist state would ever allow a free general strike lmfao. There has been no example of lockdowns in a bourgeois state leading to anything other than impoverishment and suffering of the working class and the enrichment of the big bourgeoisie.

Your idealized full lockdowns with total compensation for all workers are never going to happen in a bourgeois state.


File: 1642332363142.png (80.14 KB, 198x341, david north truth.png)

>David North is probably a pseudonym. Articles online say he is David W. Green that owns Grand River Printing and Imaging, but that's not true
It is true. David W. Green is listed as the owner of the multimillion dollar company in public financial records, and the alumni magazine of David Green's college explicitly stated that he writes "under the pen name David North". Pic related. Former members of the SEP will also corroborate this. The evidence is compiled here: https://www.opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html

>Who the fuck is this guy and where does the money for WSWS come from? If there is a secret source of funds for left wing causes, I want in.

A large portion of the funding for the WSWS probably comes from North, but I'm sure there are other wealthy donors with deep pockets behind it. This is the case with a great many leftist orgs, class traitors provide an outsize amount of funding. This funding is of course helpful, but it poses the risk of bourgeois class interests hijacking your political program. This definitely seems to be the case with the SEP and its extreme anti-union stance where they explicitly tell workers to vote "no" in union elections.


Its quite a bit more than 12 guys, they source their articles from their entire world wide membership and even those who are only sympathizers.
I know a dude who is an avid writer/translator for wsws and he started doing that even before he was a member. They even approached me to write an article for them because they noticed I was knowledgeable in a specific topic.
They somehow have an incredibly energetic and devoted membership and they really grasp at any opportunity to get something interesting for the newspaper.


<please lock up the working class for 2 weeks, bourgeoisie


Yes. Workers generate wealth, without their slaves laboring away for their passive income their entire shit system will die off.





Delusional children with a slave fetish.


File: 1642336681708.png (733.48 KB, 983x735, be quiet porky.png)

>just keep going to work and dying so your boss can get richer
Suicidal cuck mentality. Kill yourself and do the world a favor (in minecraft).


File: 1642337075911.png (115.01 KB, 474x374, ClipboardImage.png)

>wanting to avoid work is slave fetish


File: 1642337204229.jpg (17.08 KB, 450x600, fire guy.jpg)

>impoverishment and suffering of the working class
Free radicalization of the workers. They're doing the vanguard's job for them.
>enrichment of the big bourgeoisie.
Free acceleration of the dialectic.
And if the landlords and small business owners suffer because their slaves aren't coming in to make them passive income, good. The petty bourgoisie is the enemy.


File: 1642337206070.jpg (1.98 MB, 1169x1736, 1632449710422.jpg)

This is such a retard tier accelerationist delusion. It's been 2 years of covid. How much longer do the workers in bourgeois countries need to be unemployed without benefits and wait patiently for capitalism to magically disappear ? 5 years? 10?

The whole point of a fucking general strike is the workers organizing themselves to do so
independently and AGAINST the will of the bourgeoise, not to be stripped of employment BY the ruling class itself.

If your entire hope for the liberation of the proletariat lies in a benevolent or suicidal bourgeoisie, then you cannot call yourself a Marxist.

Being unemployed without compensation is death. You spastic fucking retard.


>muh accelerationism
Do you support stripping the workers of all their other rights so they can become more impoverished and 'radicalized'?


File: 1642337403889.png (440.55 KB, 926x517, ClipboardImage.png)

>How much longer do the workers in bourgeois countries need to be unemployed without benefits
lol are you american? sounds like your american.
enjoy being american.




A comfortable man is a man who doesn't want change. But he's also a few missed meals from having nothing to lose but his chains.
I was a liberal before covid hit and I guarantee you that millions of libshits have realized the absurdity of capitalism and the necessity for its destruction in these awful years when people suffered and the rich carried on like nothing was happening. They've been flocking to leftist movements last year alone. Just look at all the fucking strikes.


So if the bourgeoisie did away with limited work hours, minimum wage etc we should cheer for it, right?

They're just bourgeois rights. Fuck the radical unions that struggled for them. Capitalism will just implode by itself any second now.


The people who didn't have those rights 100 years ago took up arms and killed Pinkertons to get them.
Now we have them and people are bending over for their bosses to fuck them in the ass while the bourgeois government doesn't enforce them - not against corporations, not against small business tyrants.
Of what utility were the rights?
Of what utility are any rights cast down like crumbs from a table from our masters? We can grovel for more, or we can dare them to take them away and see what happens. If you favor the former you're just a socdem.


>lol are you american?
As if America was the only place where workers didn't get full compensation under the bourgeoisie's lockdowns.


the working class was 'comfortable' AND absolutely rotting pre-Covid

Look at protests in other nations, and revolutions. Tell me with a straight face that your country is in a comparable state of revolt. Enough of the working class is secure and not at risk of death.


>It’s been 2 years of COVID!
Okay, I get Anglo education is some of the most dogshit in the history of the world and is designed to make entire countries of morons; but it’s honestly pretty impressive to me how many of you jackasses seem convinced that a pandemic is a television plotline that is supposed to have a defined, relatively near-term conclusion

Like, it’s like you’re crying over how obviously life is fucking shit now, but it’s like…do you think we’re in a movie or tv arc or something? Just in real life? The First World War lasted 4 years, the Second World War lasted between 6-8 years depending on when you place the start, the Great Depression lasted a decade, I mean, what did you seriously expect, especially considering your own shithole countries totally botched their response and easily manipulated dickholes like you into thinking what China did was muh Nazi apocalyptic nightmare

And I mean, it’s all about seeing the silver lining, it’s been two years of workers becoming radical as fuck considering, here in reality, porky isn’t doing lockdowns and never really wanted to and is directly telling people to eat shit and die in their workplaces and it’s getting so bad that the Western railroad workers in the US are agitating for a general strike that would paralyze America’s economy


>full compensation
who are you quoting? put those posts back
also, you're american.


Comfortable enough not to give a fuck about unionizing, striking, or embracing radical politics for the most part


For reference, Spanish Flu lasted for a little over 2 years and I believe we're far more globally connected now than *during* World War 1.


>nionizing, striking, or embracing radical politics
It's moving uphill in the past year for USA, but we're not even close yet.
Yes I'm high on hopium and I feel good.


I'm not seeing these posts you're quoting, are they from a mirror site or something?


That’s exactly my point though
Nothing as stark as your bosses telling you directly that fuck you and your family, die to make me rich
Like, the place I’m working at now is the first workplace I’ve entered where there’s definitely at least one other socialist working there and pretty much everyone is pro-unionization and constantly talking about the working class struggle going on around the country
Covid has heavily changed the discourse and will only change it more, it’s the black swan event that’s waking Westerners up
I’m assuming he deleted his own posts


File: 1642338659991.png (12.75 KB, 615x108, ClipboardImage.png)

Nah, poster deleted their own post. Maybe they realized it was a bit silly.


Tell me geniuses, why capitalists have gotten trillions richer the last two years?


>Being unemployed without compensation is death.


Workers who don't get paid full wages, like me, have no interest in lockdowns.

China is capitalist as much as the USA is.




>The most successful socialist newspaper is run by an anti-union capitalist millionaire
Really makes me think…


Is there a reason they wouldn't?


Duh, so begging capitalists to lock workers up indoors is not going to change anything.

You will not get a revolution from people's homes.


>Capitalists get richer with or without lockdowns
>Workers get poorer with or without lockdowns
<With lockdowns they at least won’t die of a disease
<“But what about muh smol porkoid”
t. Leftypol


Workers who do not receive benefits have no reason to support their impoverishment through lockdowns.


And they do have a reason to support their death from disease?
You are a fool
Oh, but let me guess, it’s only the “weak” who will die, yes?
A fool, and a eugenicist


Are you projecting?
If you get sick you will not be working, if you get sick you will spread the disease to others and infect them too, you genuinely may die and the direct threat of death from illness genuinely is higher, and of course the disease can evolve once again
The notion of
>Wage slave or fucking die
Is ironically enough exactly the liberal understanding of reality, that there are no alternatives, what you believe precisely.
You believe there is no alternative to neoliberal mass death, you are a projecting liberal
You probably believe the pandemic is a culture war issue, you are a moron
>Work for porky and possibly fucking die, or don’t work for porky and possibly fucking die, those are the options, there are no alternatives
You are a liberal pretending that you aren’t one


Glow more faggot. I'd rather die while denying you my labor than die of the coof while enriching you.


Cease discussion of Covid


Trotskyites are known for writing great articles and books.

I am Marxist-Leninist-MZT and really like reading the works of International Marxist Tendency, only when it comes to Stalin, DPRK, Cuba and China are they kinda cringe, also their local political groups are cults


They downright harassed this dude to no end.. it's rather weird.


That article doesn't provide evidence that David North is the David W. Green that owns Grand River Printing & Imaging. It's just conjecture.

I've found the old Grand River Printing & Imaging website and there are no photos of anybody that looks like David North. https://web.archive.org/web/20040609103122/http://www.grpinc.com/html/CompanyProfile_Team.html

So it's still a mystery who David North is and where the money comes from.


The evidence was the pic I provided: according to the alumni magazine of the college David North graduated, David W. Green wrote Marxist books "under the pen name David North". You could grasp at straws and claim that a different David W. Green owned GRPI, but why would you believe that over the testimony of former SEP members. The old website doesn't disprove anything because it has no photos of any of the management, let alone one of Green / North.

Here's the supporting claim by a former SEP member: http://forum.permanent-revolution.org/2018/06/the-gutter-politics-of-david-north.html

<I think I have done a fairly good job of resisting the trappings of that middle-class life that at one time seemed so desirable. But the irony here is that I don’t know anyone who lives a more comfortable life than Mr. North himself. And it would be wrong to call it a “middle class” life. After all, we are talking about the CEO (or by now the retired CEO) of a medium sized business. He owns a palatial home in Southfield, a well-to-do suburb of Detroit. When comrade North travels to give one of his lectures, all his needs are attended to by a personal assistant and his devoted followers. And I have little doubt that unlike the rest of us who are forced to sit in the bone-crunching spaces the airlines reserve for economy and sub-economy class, Mr. North travels leisurely in Business Class. As Mel Brooks said, “It’s good to be the king.”

<Other leading comrades in Southfield have homes adjoining a river with a marvelous view. I can testify to that personally as I was a guest at one of these houses in 2003. If you are one of those leading comrades in the Southfield area, it’s a good life… I only want to point to the incredible hypocrisy and dishonesty involved in North’s use of a letter I penned 20 years ago to prove that I am an enemy of the working class because I was once tempted with a “comfortable life”.


>>695230 (me)
Never mind, I dug further on the GRPI website and found the smoking gun. If you "download the Grand River brochure" you can see portraits of the corporate management, and it's unmistakably David North.


Boomers personal LARP club


It's only not true because he sold the company to a French outfit several years ago. I did some digging a while back and found out that GRPI was owned by a trot party that split into the SEP whereupon Green turned it into a business and spun their physical newspaper into the WSWS.


The bourgeois always fund Trotskyites as a dual investment
1) fill up the working class and communist movement with defeatism and calling anyone that actually attempts to build socialism "Stalinist"
2) because trots eventually become neocons they consider it a good training ground (all to do with Trotsky's retarded conception of nations - rather his disregard for the self determination of nations)

Whilst their lines are generally good they always fall back to typical trot whining of "but Assad/Gadaffi/Lukashenko are Stalinists,!"

Their coverage of Belarus was scandalous for eg


The bourgeois in Britain literally criminalised workers for having Christmas parties whilst they partied nonstop in gov

Imagine being this much of a cuck you beg the booj to put you under house arrest


the solution is to stop them having parties, you're as retarded as someone who says 'bill gates has a private jet, therefore climate change not real'


Are you seriously trying to get in the way of lefty/pol/tards being poltarded?


Because it makes people experience orgasms.


>best socialist/labor publication in the world
I've literally never heard of this website or heard anyone mention it outside of /leftypol/. I assumed it was a meme.


You're not really one to speak….


They are weirdos and irrelevant in terms of praxis, although they seem to piss off labor leaders in the US, but they have really good coverage of labor stuff going on around the western hemisphere. Their writing style is super cultish. They also have absolute dog shit takes on certain things.

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