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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Would Nazism have existed without the revolutions starting in 1917?


>“Nineteen fourteen was the beginning of what many historians characterise as the Second Thirty Years War…. During this crisis, independently of the Bolshevik Revolution and often prior to it, we witness the emergence of all those constitutive features of the totalitarian and concentration camp universe that historical revisionism … seek to deduce from the fateful October 1918.

>“A merciless struggle required iron discipline on both sides; the regimentation of society reached unprecedented levels. … and this applies to countries with the oldest liberal traditions. In the USA, although safe on the other side of the Atlantic and sheltered from any danger of invasion, people could be sentenced to as much as twenty years in prison for having expressed an opinion liable to disturb the climate of sacred patriotic duty. Such patriotic duty was configured as a kind of single party: political, trade union or cultural organisations that challenged it were ruthlessly suppressed. A feature of the totalitarian phenomenon is the imposition of a strict state monopoly on information. This monopoly first appeared and proved brilliantly effective, in the North American Republic. Seven days after declaring war, Wilson established a Committee on Public Information that even regimented high culture. Another characteristic of the totalitarian regime is an admixture of control and violence by the state with control and violence from below, perpetrated by political organisations or militarized sections of civil society. During the First World War, a very prominent role was played by vigilante groups unearthing, attacking and terrorizing possible or potential ‘’traitors.’ Finally, according to Arendt, totalitarianism is not content to impose a passive consensus, but demands an active consensus and active participation in a unanimous national effort. ..The same slogans prevailed: ‘total mobilization’, ‘total war’, and even ‘total politics.’

>“The iron fist targeted entire ethnic groups, suspected of maintaining links with the enemy…Hence resort to deportation. Among its victims were the Armenians, whom the Turkish government blamed for favouring collaboration with Christian and Czarist Russia, which in its turn deported Jews, who were suspected of looking to Wilhelmine and social democratic Germany as a possible liberator from the yoke of anti-semitism….

>“Along with the practice of deportation, concentration camps emerged…in countries with the most stable liberal traditions. .. The univers concentrationnaire became a reality during the Second World War, when Roosevelt had American citizens of Japanese origin (including women and children) deported to concentration camps, even rounding them up from Latin America. In 1950, the McCarran Act was passed, setting up six concentration camps around the country to hold political prisoners.’ …

>“The diffusion in the most diverse countries of institutions and features typical of totalitarianism clarifies a crucial point: rather than a particular ideology, its genesis is to be sought in war. We may venture a definition: totalitarianism is the political regime corresponding to total war… It goes without saying that this new political regime assumes very different forms depending on the respective geopolitical situations, political traditions and ideologies.”


It's possible it could have. Anarchism, feminism and communism were spooking people back to at least the 1800s so if your scenario poses that the Bolsheviks had to exist for the Nazis to have had a radical left threat to point at, well, no that already existed all over and was an actively perceived threat to capitalism and feudalism at plenty of points.


Perhaps not. But I've always found this argument inane. That the Bolshevik revolution inspired such a reaction from the bourgeoisie is proof of its necessity and enduring strength. The bourgeoisie correctly perceived their downfall and fascism was their attempt to throttle communism for good.


1914 is literally the most inconsequential year to set a turning point for anything tbh.


>1914 is literally the most inconsequential year to set a turning point for anything tbh.


the war didn't even really kick off until the following year after the initial German offensive in north-eastern France had stagnated, and it's obviously infamous for having been gradually built up over the past decade or so, and only set off by a flimsy excuse


Fascism would have, Nazism probably wouldn't.
The genesis of fascism was Mussolini's turn away from Marx and socialism beginning in 1914, independent of anything that happened in Germany. While German Nazism was fueled after the war by particularly anti-semetic white Russian emigres and reactions against the Bolshevik revolution.

Without 1917 fascism would probably take an entirely different character in Germany, though of course the fascist reaction to organized communism would still take place in many European nations after WWI.


Germans, even in the socialist circles always had settler colonial ambitions in regards to Russia. Even if Russia stayed Tsarist the Germans would eventually try to expand and turn Slavs into Native Americans. Naziism was just one ideological variant.


> While German Nazism was fueled after the war by particularly anti-semetic white Russian emigres
This is interesting, never heard or thought about about the White Russians influence on Germany.


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Alternate history is a game for fools.

Of course, Nazism was a reaction to 1917. They wouldn't have found any support in Germany had the war gone differently. But it wasn't Jewish bolshevik traitors in the rear who made WWI unwinnable for Germany. It was materially impossible. They weren't going to carry the bloated corpses of the Hapsburg dynasty and Ottomans forward into the 20th century because their empires were dying and there was nothing anybody could have done to prevent that.

The kaiser was fucked. The workers were sick of toiling and dying for the pampered aristocracy and capitalists. A harsh reaction was inevitable.


>Without 1917 fascism would probably take an entirely different direction
In the sense of arguments and aesthetics maybe, but it still would have launched a war of genocide on the Slavic world, Lebensraum is much older than Naziism or fascism



>but it still would have launched a war of genocide on the Slavic world
It was an anti-communist campaign, Slavic fascists in Croatia, Serbia, Slovakia, Poland and more worked with the nazis.


Who still exterminated them to one degree or another


It was imperialist expansion first and foremost. If it wasn't it wouldn't be possible for soviet diplomats to make molotov-ribentrop pact and redirect agression to western countries first.


>would Nazism have existed without the revolutions starting in 1917?
Nazis themselves were heavily influenced by the White Russians
If white Russians (with 14 foreign armies backing them) had won the civil war you'd have likely seen Russia as the first fascist country
>All the White Russians around the Grand Duke, and even Cyril himself, were anti-Semites and were in fact more fanatically anti-Communist and anti-Semitic than many of the Nazis themselves.
So the Nazis would've had an ally from 1918 onward and by world war 2 the Nazis would've had fascist Russia with all her oilfields to march into every country in Europe unopposed


Nice book
<Big businessmen were undoubtedly interested in Hitler's social welfare policy and his views on the Jews, but what concerned them most was the question of capitalism and free enterprise. At first Dietrich himself was disturbed by Nazi slogans about "eliminating unearned income" and "smashing the bondage of interest." Mer discussing economic matters with Hitler at some length, Dietrich was reassured. He later wrote:' "Hitler accepted private property and the role of capital in modern economic life because he recognized these as the economic foundations of our culture." He opposed only the abuse of capitalism, but not capitalism in principle. Although "smashing interestslavery" was one of the points of the Nazi program, Hitler recognized that he could not eliminate the system of interest from the economy, "without undermining his own political existence. "

Though i think Russia would still be invaded and ended up just like polish "allies"


Not in Croatia or Slovakia.
But the main target was always going to be the USSR because it was a communist bastion.The war the nazis waged against France was completely different to that against the Soviet Union.


>Would Nazism have existed without the revolutions starting in 1917?
Imo yes, because HItler could just go away with it, even without the USSR.

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