Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 11:51:40 No. 692273
Is US intervention always bad? Surely there are times when US intervention would be welcome. I can imagine living in a few countries historically where I would welcome a US intervention. Better worded by Chris "That war in the early 1990s changed a lot for me. I never thought I would see, in Europe, a full-dress reprise of internment camps, the mass murder of civilians, the reinstiutution [sic] of torture and rape as acts of policy. And I didn't expect so many of my comrades to be indifferent – or even take the side of the fascists. It was a time when many people on the left were saying 'Don't intervene, we'll only make things worse' or, 'Don't intervene, it might destabilise the region. And I thought – destabilisation of fascist regimes is a good thing. Why should the left care about the stability of undemocratic regimes? Wasn't it a good thing to destabilise the regime of General Franco? It was a time when the left was mostly taking the conservative, status quo position – leave the Balkans alone, leave Milosevic alone, do nothing. And that kind of conservatism can easily mutate into actual support for the aggressors. Weimar-style conservatism can easily mutate into National Socialism. So you had people like Noam Chomsky's co-author Ed Herman go from saying 'Do nothing in the Balkans', to actually supporting Milosevic, the most reactionary force in the region. That's when I began to first find myself on the same side as the neocons. I was signing petitions in favour of action in Bosnia, and I would look down the list of names and I kept finding, there's Richard Perle. There's Paul Wolfowitz. That seemed interesting to me. These people were saying that we had to act. Before, I had avoided them like the plague, especially because of what they said about General Sharon and about Nicaragua. But nobody could say they were interested in oil in the Balkans, or in strategic needs, and the people who tried to say that – like Chomsky – looked ridiculous. So now I was interested"
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 11:55:50 No. 692279
>>692273 >Is US intervention always bad? yes
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 11:57:01 No. 692281
>>692279 Even against Hitler?
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 11:58:32 No. 692284
>>692281 no, that is not an intervention (invasion)
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 11:59:21 No. 692286
>>692281 Ultimately probably, since without the US intervention the Soviet Union would have probably steamrollered it's way to the Atlantic and occupied japan
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:01:40 No. 692287
>>692286 What if there was no Soviet Union
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:07:25 No. 692291
>>692287 what if your mom had wheels?
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:08:51 No. 692292
>>692291 Then US intervention would be good
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:08:59 No. 692293
>And that kind of conservatism can easily mutate into actual support for the aggressors. Weimar-style conservatism can easily mutate into National Socialism. And then he abandoned socialism and became a neocon. What a fucking twat.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:10:10 No. 692294
>>692293 He didn't abandon socialism. Socialism abandoned him.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:23:27 No. 692303
>>692273 American liberalism is preferable to reactionary feudalism in 3rd world countries.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:31:51 No. 692307
>>692303 It's cute that you think "American liberalism" is going to bring "American liberalism" to said third world countries.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 12:32:51 No. 692310
>>692273 Is Iraq more primed for revolution now, or in 2002? Are their workers more organized and militant now, or 20 years ago? Are Iraq's communists and socialists more popular and less repressed now, or in the past?
https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/massive-protests-sweep-iraq-communist-party-calls-for-emergency-government/ Hmm…
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:16:14 No. 692335
>>692303 Traditionalist reactionaries and outright fascists are frequently the people the US Empire empowers in Third World countries
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:32:43 No. 692342
>>692273 good and bad are category errors. is a hurricane always bad? is a plague of locusts always bad?
the catch, the friend-enemy distinction, is got at by your own quote:
>And that kind of conservatism can easily mutate into actual support for the aggressors. Weimar-style conservatism can easily mutate into National Socialism. So you had people like Noam Chomsky's co-author Ed Herman go from saying 'Do nothing in the Balkans', to actually supporting Milosevic, the most reactionary force in the region. That's when I began to first find myself on the same side as the neocons. the moment you open up that region of your brain you risk madness. if America can be trusted against Milosevic, why not against Saddam? if Milosevic can be trusted against America, why not against the Bosnians?
if, like the contemporary left, you are essentially powerless anyway then the appropriate answer is to have no position. what is my position on a hurricane rendering the United Kingdom a modern Atlantis? I am for it. what is my position for a plague of locusts wiping out the crops of some African village? I am against it. yet the locusts come and the hurricane doesn't.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:36:40 No. 692345
>>692342 > good and bad are category errors. is a hurricane always bad? is a plague of locusts always bad? Neither are conscious beings, one of them literally isn’t alive; the American Empire is helmed by humans
You lose yet again, western socdem imperialist shill
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:43:16 No. 692350
>>692273 >Surely there are times when US intervention would be welcome Dai Hong Dan incident
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:45:03 No. 692352
>>692345 the American empire is helmed by humans, but it is a relentless machine. modelling its behavior as human is madness - will you appeal to the better nature of the American empire? to its empathy? you would have more luck making an emotional appeal to a computer virus.
consider: what happens if you take a man from the machine and destroy him? he is replaced and the machine continues. what happens if you take the machine from the men and destroy it?
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:48:59 No. 692354
>>692281 1) US never intervened against Hitler in any substantial meaningful way until 1943 - when the Red Army had already smashed the Nazi army at Stalingrad and Kursk and the entire army was retreating
The Amerifats, to quote Truman, plan was ""If we see that Germany is winning, we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible"
2) the implication of this liberalism is that American (or British) liberalalism is preferable to Nazism
They show their ignorance here given that Hitlerites took their inspiration for the Holocaust from the Americans and what they did to the natives
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/03/nazi-germanys-american-dream-hitler-modeled-his-concept-of-racial-struggle-and-global-campaign-after-americas-conquest-of-native-americans.html Secondly it ignores the horrendous crimes committed by American/British liberals
Thirdly it ignores how the Anglos connived with Hitler every step of the way (numerous pacts with Nazi Germany - Britain signed 3 between 1933-1938 - deliberate Anglo help for the Franco fascists in Spain which brought down the republican gov.)
And lastly it separates the Anglos from the Hitlerites as if they were two separate things; as if the governor of the Bank of England and numerous financial outfits in America weren't directly responsible for the stock market crash in Germany in 1932 which would see the Nazis come to power because they were hoping for a Mussolini type figure to come in and smash the working class and labour movement to restore profitability (like what Mussolini did)
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 13:54:36 No. 692356
>>692273 His comrades were right, and history has proved them right. Iraq is worse than it was during Saddam's time, and it is directly because of US intervention. It is not just the destabilization of 'undemocratic governments', it is the destabilization of a whole region itself.
"Saddam is gone, but in his place there are 1,000 Saddams"
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 14:13:26 No. 692365
Yes its pretty much always bad Sadam was bad but better then ISIS
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 14:21:55 No. 692372
>>692273 Pic unrelated i hope
>>692356 This
Sage !61KGLATVW. 2022-01-15 (Sat) 15:46:35 No. 692426
Fuck off and kill yourself
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 15:56:53 No. 692440
>>692354 >The Amerifats, to quote Truman, plan was ""If we see that Germany is winning, we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible" That wasn't their plan, their plan was "Germany first" and unconditional Axis surrender. Truman just said that before the US even joined the war and before he was VP.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 16:58:48 No. 692602
>>692365 and where is ISIS now?
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 17:00:09 No. 692606
>>692281 I mean, Hitler declared war on the US, so it's a tad different from Uncle Sam going to some third country and bombing their shit.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 19:29:12 No. 692873
>>692273 Yes. Why does this even need to be asked here?
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 19:37:16 No. 692877
US intervention has always been bad, international intervention is a different story. With communism international cooperation of liberal countries has been to "contain" and "censor" them whereas with rogue nations like Nazi Germany it's been open hostility. The one time where international intervention was at it's best was during WW2 because before that with WW1 and such it's been about one thing leading to another because of realpolitik alliances. So in many ways interventionism has always been bad except the one case in WW2.
Anonymous 2022-01-15 (Sat) 21:34:32 No. 692971
>>692602 Isis was started by the US
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:25:12 No. 693314
You can't eat democracy, freedom can't pay for your leg surgery, and human rights can't rebuild that road outside
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:27:50 No. 693319
>>693314 These used to be leftist values until it got warped into its current form.
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:32:06 No. 693327
>>692273 When they forced the S*rbs to end their genocide in Bosnia, and when they bombed Milosevic's fascist government.
I also consider the Nazi invasions of Western European colonialist powers to be based because it gave them a taste of their own medicine. fite me
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:36:19 No. 693329
>>693327 >I also consider the Nazi invasions of Western European colonialist powers to be based Absolute based nazis my comrade.
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:36:38 No. 693330
>>693314 based materialist
>>693319 cringe utopian
Anonymous 2022-01-16 (Sun) 01:53:45 No. 693345
>>692971 this is untrue anon.
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