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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1651956388481.jpg (6.78 MB, 2580x3533, big mac.jpg)

 No.958077[View All]

You're in the club and this guy comes up, slaps your girl's ass, and says:

<The need for ‘purging’ the movement of opportunists and “accidental elements” was to be a central demand of the ‘Twenty-one conditions’. The periodic purge was also to be one of the central weapons the Bolshevik leadership promoted against corruption and bureaucratic degeneration once the party had taken power. In this character it was - to put it mildly - wholly ineffective. Individual bureaucrats and corrupt elements might be purged, but the overall effect of the purges was to increase the power of the party bureaucracy as such over the rank and file, and therefore reduce and, indeed, rapidly eliminate the ability of the proletariat as a class to fight for its class interests through the Communist Party.


<So-called ‘Leninist’ sectarians believe that splitting organisationally from the right and repeated purges will make a pure revolutionary organisation. The political collapse of such sectarians into the most abject opportunism has been a repeated feature of the history of Trotskyism and Maoism.


What do you do?
69 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.959165

>>959160
To establish an empire that will imperialize the third world is not good. This is the kind of campism that socialists should not engage in. Counter-imperialism is only good for breaking absolute hegemony. We should invite foreign empires to come fight us in our homelands, not to imperialize others.

You seek to imperialize the world? Why, because you in turn would not accept having to carry out an anti-imperial struggle?

 No.959168

Anyone that dedicated to finding truth can be my permanent mistress

 No.959178

Based MacNair.

 No.959208

>>959123
>Germany torpedoed Nord Stream 2 under pressure of the USA
How is that an argument for making Europe even weaker relative to USA.

>>959112 >>959124
You seem to live in an alternative timeline. USA = still the dominant world power, so balkanizing now = stronger USA.

 No.959217

>>959208
>You seem to live in an alternative timeline. USA = still the dominant world power
Yes.

>so balkanizing now = stronger USA.


???????
How do you figure???

 No.959273

>>959217
>???????
>How do you figure???
A multipolar world isnt growing just because "the usa is disintegrating on its own", its caused by competition from china, from europe, and in lesser degrees from smaller imperialist powers like iran and russia. Balkanizing europe now just keeps pax america in place by giving europe in its entirety to the usa.
But you live in the delusion that europe is already "in the pocket of the usa", despite, you know, the entire US state department and the past president openly saying they are engaged in competition with europe.

 No.959767

>>959064
>Macnair is no different to all the other Trotskyists (and his party are Trotskyists despite their denial)
Give me your best theoretical analysis why you think the CPGB are somehow secretly Trots, I really want to see it.

 No.959976

File: 1652083415766.jpg (387.71 KB, 679x1412, vivamacron.jpg)

>>959128
>and military cooperation is increasing.
What ever happened t Macron's spazzy 'Euro army' idea?

 No.960245

>>959767
If anything, the CPGB is the spiritual successor of the Right Opposition.

 No.960366

Finding out CPGB-PCC and the Macnair cult support the EU really did a dent in my perception of this tendency.
>>958363
>It's not so much resurrecting Kautsky as it is resurrecting the political strategy of Marx and Engels themselves (Orthodox Marxism).
They're just Kaut and this is a dangerous development for the workers movement. This history is not to be fucking repeated.

 No.960420

>>960366
>Finding out CPGB-PCC and the Macnair cult support the EU really did a dent in my perception of this tendency.
Why
>They're just Kaut and this is a dangerous development for the workers movement. This history is not to be fucking repeated.
Explain how we are kautskyists when we don't support all the retarded shit he did, but only the shit he did I'm the SPD that Marx and Engels (or Lenin for that matter) thought was cool. Its just a return to a political strategy of how a party should work, it's not "lmao we support imperialism now". The Leni IST party of new type has shown it does not function, it has never functioned, it did not exist until after it had already attained power.

 No.960422

>>960420
Excuse my phone's retarded autocorrect

 No.960437

>>959976
They probably found out just how much JP-8 it takes to keep modern military equipment functioning.

 No.960442

>>958077
>>958468
>Mike Macnair is a member of the Provisional Central Committee of the CPGB and, “being an old-fashioned ex-Trot political hack”, writes on a wide range of …
Dude who would have gotten purged argues against purges.

 No.960462

>>960442
I guess the Maoists in China were wrong since they got purged then

 No.960510

This thread reeks of reaction and opportunism, therefore I demand that the mods purge OP and all who agree with him from /leftypol/ at once

 No.960788

>>960462
The "Maoists in China" were wrong for a plethora of reasons, but not because they were purged. In fact you are mixing up cause and effect here: they were wrong and thus were purged; they weren't right because they got purged.

It takes a typical anglo "anti-Dengist" to defend ex-Trots, lmao.

 No.963499

File: 1652269183544.jpg (28.22 KB, 367x487, if only you knew.jpg)

>>960442
>Dude who would have gotten purged argues against purges.
Yes, it's true that if Macnair joined an ML, Maoist or Trot party he would get purged. Likewise, an ML that joined a Trot party would get purged, a Trot that joined a Maoist party would get purged and so on. They key difference here is that if an ML, Trot or Maoist joined an Orthodox Marxist party they would not get purged. So long as they agree to fight for the party's program of political demands, they would have full freedom to publicly argue for transitional demands, a mass line, giant Stalin portraits, etc.

The point is to unite the left around a program of common action rather than a theoretical orthodoxy. All the dozens of ML and Trot sects believe that one day their "correct line" will cause the working class to flock in droves to their specific group, but it's been over half a century and this hasn't come true for a single one of them. If you want to build a mass, politically relevant communist movement, you have to start by uniting all (most) of the leftist activists into a democratic communist party that allows dissent.

This is the story behind the Gotha unification congress, best known for Karl Marx's withering critique of its program. It marked the fusion of two relatively small revleft groups: the followers of Ferdinand Lasalle and the followers of Wilhelm Liebknecht (a fan of Marx but far from an unquestioning sycophant). The unification marked a compromise between the two groups. The theoretical foundations were granted to the Lasalleans, which outraged Marx as you may know. The political organization and strategy, on the other hand, was granted to Liebknecht's supporters (quickly dubbed "the Marx cult" and the like by opponents). The Lasallean practice of "Labor Monarchism", wherein the leadership could contravene or purge whomever they didn't like, was abandoned in favor of a more open and autonomous structure. The result was a snowball effect in party membership. This fusion of two small groups quickly grew into a party of hundreds of thousands. Furthermore, this surge in membership led to a surge of theoretical debate, and the Marxists quickly gained the upper hand. Any traces of the Lasallean dogma that Marx inveighed against was formally expunged only 16 years later when the party adopted the Erfurt program.

You see the same pattern in other countries across Europe near the end of the 19th century: a fusion of several revleft sects creates a mass party much greater than the sum of its parts. Over the course of the 19th century socialism progressed from being a bookclub for political nerds to a mass movement with real potential for revolution. Over the course of the 20th century the exact opposite happened. The root cause of this comes from the decision of the Comintern to "create an iron military order in its own ranks" - the "vanguard", "cadres", all the military analogies were introduced after 1917, during the Russian Civil War. That's a topic for another day, but the point is that it is radically different from the model that built a mass, politically relevant socialist movement for the first time in history, and which successfully led to victory in the Russian revolution. With today's left looking very similar to the disparate sects of the mid 19th century, I think this strategy deserves a second look.

 No.963575

>>959138
bro epic

 No.963583

>>960788
>It takes a typical anglo "anti-Dengist" to defend ex-Trots
im not anglo you stupid fuck

 No.963586


 No.964245

>>963499
Holy based, what a good description of the concept of programmatic unity by orthodox marxism.

 No.964253

>>958077
Bend him over and assfuck him to assert my dominance

 No.964258

>>963499
Cool, thanks

 No.964806

>>963499
What do you do about the glowies though?

 No.968748

>>959131
Taking the correct Marxist-Leninist line isn't sectarian. It's simply the correct thing to do.

>bbbut they're small


The Bolsheviks only had a few thousand members in 1916. If you don't have correct organisation, theory, and tactics, all three are needed, then a revolution will not happen, and all revolutions have been done by Leninist parties. And also a revolutionary situation is needed. Thankfully the current NATO-Russia war has done much to bring that about. The reason for the struggles of communists over the last 30 years was because of material factors, that being the destruction of the USSR which like the Paris Commune was a huge setback, not because of theoretical reasons. A revolutionary situation hasn't come about, but since the 2008 financial crisis there has been a resurgence of communist ideas.

 No.968753

>>959767
Alongside the support for the EU shared by horrendous Trotskyist types like the Alliance for Workers Liberty, their whining about Stalin is evidence enough.

https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/categories/stalinism/
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/760/dead-russians/

If I wanted to hear a bunch of Oxbridge educated "Marxists" whine about Stalin I'd rather just hear it straight from MI5 or the British Labour Party, rather than freaks claiming the mantle of the CPGB.

 No.968755

>>959147
<the evil scheming Muscovite Asiatics are destroying out sacred Evropean bulwark against Bolshevism
Scratch a Remainer and a nazi bleeds.

 No.969711

>>963499
>full freedom to publicly argue for transitional demands, a mass line, giant Stalin portraits, etc.
Do like how your conception of Marxism-Leninism is that we just want to carry big pictures of Stalin. Very telling and it's why I have to laugh at Kautskyists sneering and acting like they're going to carry out a revolution.

 No.969729

>>969711
Sorry, but reality just confirms that mls are mostly insular larpers in the west

 No.969757

File: 1652557584533.png (218.52 KB, 354x266, bin (1).png)

>>969729
There's that word again.

 No.969770

>>969757
Yes actually.
You didn't make a single argument in this thread, you just said the word "trot trot trot" again and again, said "I am right you are wrong" or heavily strawman people by saying "well uuh you're a racist, what about that?"

 No.969775

>>969770
I provided arguments for why Marxist-Leninists oppose the EU and for why the British proletariat of which I am a part voted to leave.

 No.969781

>>969775
You didn't convince anyone by quoting Lenin in 1917 sayin the USA is a rising power. Then you proceeded to try and refute "Europe as tiny countries isn't a pole in a multipolar world but subject to actual geopootical powers" with "you're just afraid of the Asiatic horde racist"
Kill yourself

 No.969809

>>969781
I quoted Lenin by pointing out that a United States of Europe under capitalism would be reactionary and would simply enable imperialism. It would also be dominated by France and Germany as the EU already is. There's no equality of nations in the EU. A united Europe would simply enable easier US control if anything. The USA played a large part in promoting European integration for easier market access and to rejuvenate the European economies after WW2. Even the arch reactionary Churchill did.

As communists we don't care for "multipolarity", we stand for proletarian hegemony and proletarian internationalism.

 No.969829

>Every time that bourgeois politicians have championed the idea of Europeanism, of the union of European States, it has been with an open or concealed point directed against the “yellow peril,” the “dark continent,” against the “inferior races,” in short, it has always been an imperialist abortion.
Rosa Luxemburg in 1911. The same is still largely true today. When Guy Verhofstadt calls China an empire and calls for EU expansion to Africa, he's making the same claim. Death to the EU and all its hangers on.

 No.970122

>>969770
>newfag responding to leninhat
easily spotted

 No.970679

File: 1652586584482-0.jpg (147.69 KB, 500x375, cpgb stalin portrait.jpg)

File: 1652586584482-1.jpg (116.48 KB, 620x372, resist revolution.jpg)

>>969711
>>969757
<Do like how your conception of Marxism-Leninism is that we just want to carry big pictures of Stalin.
>Posts pic of the CPGB-ML
>The org which is best known for carrying big pictures of Stalin

Can't make this shit up. Also here's a quote from Stalin that might melt your brain:

<The Menshevik N. H. knows that audacity wins the day and . . . has the audacity to accuse the Bolsheviks once again of being Blanquists.


<There is nothing surprising in this, of course. Bernstein and Vollmar, the German opportunists, have for a long time been saying that Kautsky and Bebel are Blanquists. Jaures and Millerand, the French opportunists, have been for a long time accusing Guesde and Lafargue of being Blanquists and Jacobins. Nevertheless, everyone knows that Bernstein, Millerand, Jaures and the others, are opportunists, that they are betraying Marxism, whereas Kautsky, Bebel, Guesde, Lafargue and the others are revolutionary Marxists. What is there surprising in the fact that the Russian opportunists, and their follower N. H., copy the European opportunists and call us Blanquists? It shows only that the Bolsheviks, like Kautsky and Guesde, are revolutionary Marxists.

J.V. Stalin, Marx and Engels on Insurrection, 1906

 No.970696

File: 1652587435630.png (36.17 KB, 92x173, ClipboardImage.png)

>>970679
>average stalinist before i ever visited leftypol
Damn, simpler times.

 No.971046

File: 1652599444974.png (173.24 KB, 369x277, bham.png)

>>970679
>org which is best known for carrying big pictures of Stalin

Known by hysterical liberals who wouldn't have the spine for communism perhaps. Their work with proletarians in Birmingham is completely ignored by the sneering anticommunists of course.

 No.971937

>>971046
So the group you tried to counter the arg. about "big stalin picture", is, in fact a big stalin picture org, and you think it's perfectly fine. It's very courageous to if you admit you are a part of the problem *tips Lenin's hat*

 No.972819

File: 1652680480080.jpg (114.52 KB, 991x600, October.jpg)

>>972787

 No.972911

>>972787
There are several orgs irl that are larger than their ml counterpart of their country.
Orthomarxism is growing rapidly.

 No.972912

>>972911
>>972786

 No.972914

>>972787
Its only been 20 years. MLs have a much worse track record. If we're going by whatever electoral succes than post marxist opportunist left populism is the way forward. But I hope you're smarter than that.

 No.972998

>You're in the club
As if I'd be able to fucking hear a word.
<yep, yeah right, cool. uhuh, yeah

 No.976326

>>958953
EU itself is imperialism for the benefit of core EU countries. And neither is EU the only or even a good starting point for socialist internationalism given its political and economic foundations.

 No.979193

>>971937
Not a single Stalin image in the picture I posted, is there? Always makes me laugh when anti-communists whine about Stalin and just makes me more firm in my Marxist-Leninist convictions.

 No.979199

>>976326
It's very funny seeing the supposed Based Anti-Stalinist Internationalists' internationalism is limited to the territory of the EU. As if communists ever needed or wanted a capitalist European cartel.

 No.979201

I give him one of these


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