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File: 1614535506394.png (12.52 KB, 272x186, 282ABA21-BFC5-44AC-BC73-99….png)

 No.98826[Last 50 Posts]

Is the class designed to teach you how to lick porky’s cum off the floor or something?
Wtf do they even teach you in econ?
And why do people pretend that it’s a hard science?
>>

 No.98828

>>98826
Econ classes are just capitalist indoctrination. That's the entire point.
>>

 No.98834

Courses at meme universities or at least in the first year/undergraduate level only teach you (neo) classical and neoliberal economics. Why markets might suck at what they do only comes later (if at all).
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 No.98835

>>98828
Lmao ngl it’s wild how econ seemingly exists purely to sell the hardest bullshit. Was just talking to some neoliberal fag who tried arguing poverty has somehow been reduced in these past twenty years, and, tbh it just reminded me of how every single classcuck that lives should have their eyes plucked out, tongue cut out, and fingers broken and then made to walk the streets wearing a dunce cap 🤔
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 No.98854

>>98826
>And why do people pretend that it’s a hard science?
Don't shit on economics, shit on the people that misuse it. For example, while it is "common sense" among lolberts that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector, the actual economic data says there's not much of a difference between the two overall in terms of efficiency. Additionally, economic research has shown that worker cooperatives outperform private firms in most areas. Basically, you can use easily economics to justify left-wing economic policies.
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 No.98860

>>98854
My problem is just
Some neolib tried using the interwebz to prove poverty has been “reduced” since the 1980s and internally my only real response was to consider torturing him
>>

 No.98861

>>98835
You good bro?
>>

 No.98865

Both Econ and Political Science majors are meant to turn you into at least an apologist if not an agent for the status quo. I know this because I am a political science major.
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 No.98873

>>98860
You should have just told him 90% of that was in communist China+Vietnam and watch his head spin
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 No.98887

>>98861
Not really, neolibs make me violently angry
Even fascists don’t really do that since they’re a joke
>>

 No.98907

>>98826
money is money, they don't care about truth. like most people
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 No.98917

>>98887
>neolibs make me violently angry
They're literally everywhere, how do you have enough energy to stay violently angry all the time? I have a hard time staying angry for more than five minutes that shit's tiring.
>>

 No.98927

>>98917
I mean ideological neolibs, not just fags that go along with common thought
>>

 No.98929

File: 1614538343003-0.png (494.57 KB, 3400x2400, Life expectancy 1770 to 20….png)

File: 1614538343003-1.png (318.42 KB, 3400x2400, Literate and illiterate wo….png)

File: 1614538343003-2.png (444.99 KB, 3400x2400, Number of people with and ….png)

File: 1614538343003-3.png (420.28 KB, 3400x2400, Number of people with and ….png)

File: 1614538343003-4.png (435.14 KB, 3400x2400, Share of people who are un….png)

>>98860
Do you have data to the contrary? You can't just reject information because it doesn't fit a particular narrative. You are no better than lolberts who ignore information that doesn't fit their narrative if you do that.

>>98873
That's a bit of an exaggeration, but they (or at least China) did play a disproportionate role.
>>

 No.98930

>>98826
Most economist here are leftists though
>>

 No.98931

>>98927
pls don't become lenin cap
>>

 No.98964

>>98929
>literacy goes up when USSR established
i knew it
>>

 No.99017

Economics courses in modern day colleges are basically brainwashing seminars.
>>

 No.99070

>>

 No.99074

>>98865
IR majors are the worst
>>

 No.99090

>>98826
What if we just don't listen to these people and construct a parallel system that isn't built on reactionary institutions?
>>

 No.99091

>>99074
I'm lucky that I don't encounter many of them
>>

 No.99098

>>98854
so called innovation of the private sector accounts for roughly 16% of new technology, while the rest is state and research institutions. Again common sense, but lolberts think its the opposite.
>>

 No.99100

almost all data on poverty is extremely biased towards measuring the use of money to regulate transactions between people, regardless of how accurate a measurement that is for a given region or time period.
>>

 No.99102

>>98929
This isn't > capitalism fixes poverty but rather technology and medical science does. The gatekeeping of said technology has been capitalism not its availability. This seems to be a common misunderstanding of the most die-hard supporters of capitalism.
>>

 No.99105

>>99098
And the "innovation" the private sector gives us is the juicero
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 No.99107

>>99100
its a holdover of how wages developed in capitalist industry to be the amount required to reproduce the labor - with the unpaid portion going to the capitalist
>>99105
yes it uses a loose definition of innovation - things like the iphone would count even though none of it was new tech at the time
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 No.99110

>>

 No.99112

>>99107
it's not a "holdover" if you know full well it's a bad way to measure things and then use it to report misleading statistics, same as the whole "huehue people lived on average to age 30 in the 1700's", which gives a very poor representation of how things worked.
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 No.99118

File: 1614544323007-0.jpg (78.18 KB, 802x596, Screenshot 2021-01-27 0952….jpg)

File: 1614544323007-1.jpg (90.42 KB, 812x481, Screenshot 2021-01-27 0953….jpg)

here are some screenshots from my AP-macro teacher's presentation
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 No.99121

>>99112
> bad way to measure things
i dont think they do, the 'basket of goods' metric is also used to track wage growth (or decline really) but a more comprehensive metric would also track what assets were bought with wages in the 1950s - it would show an even more startling decline
> people lived on average to age 30 in the 1700's
I thought people lived pretty well prior to the 19th century, europeans were tall and well fed and then capitalism ramped up and everyone was short malnourished and died young
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 No.99123

File: 1614544424670.webm (7.99 MB, 1440x1080, RDW Economics as religion.webm)

Wolff explains this one pretty well.
>>

 No.99124

>>99118
They are not even trying anymore
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 No.99125

>>99118
> AP class
who invited the highschooler
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 No.99127

File: 1614544683878.png (66.49 KB, 197x144, choo choo1.png)

>>99125
i'm 18; i can post.
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 No.99128

>>99110
The whole point of IR is basically indoctrination into imperialism, you either get the Liberal Interventionist or outright Henry Kissinger tier "realism"
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 No.99137

>>98826
Economic """"""""theory"""""" as it is taught in universities, especially those that matter, is an ideology rather than a descriptive or predictive science. Because of the property of reflexivity, economic ideology produces the results it describes because it is implemented in the social order. So econ theory and the object it describes are part of the same circle. And this ideology is devised by investment banks and their establishment cronies and taught in the universities in order to perpetuate the perception of its false objectivity.
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 No.99151

>>99118
Ask them about pre-capitalist societies and see what they say.
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 No.99155

File: 1614546300204.png (12.25 KB, 427x400, 1614278359290.png)

>>99151
>pre-capitalist Societies? That's whataboutism!
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 No.99156

>>99118
isn't this basically true if you just replace Entrepreneur and its definition with "Capitalist"? it's more of a euphemism than anything.
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 No.99166

>>99121
I don't mean every person doing reports on global poverty is being deliberately malicious but there absolutely reports on poverty that are extremely sketchy in their methodology to paint neoliberalism well.
>I thought people lived pretty well prior to the 19th century,
Most people lived decently well enough, however people died in very early infancy and young childhood much more often, which drastically cut back on "average" life expectancy. Most people living past the age of 5 had reasonably long lives.

I'm not saying that it's more OK to die in childhood but "on average lived to 30" is an extremely misleading statistic.
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 No.99168

It pretends to be a science (cue any biologists or physicists having a laughing fit right now) while operating on unquestionable, a priori assumptions. You can use the phrase "labor theory of value" infront of an economist to get either a blank stare from the ignorant, or an enraged spat of unsourced denial from the malicious. Ever since the split from political economics, it remains the one collegiate field that will actually make you dumber by listening to it


>>99151
>Ask them about pre-capitalist societies and see what they say

You'd likely get a PhD wielding professor say that capitalism has always existed because capitalism is when people use currency or trade. Wouldn't be the first time
>>

 No.99169

>>99168
>You'd likely get a PhD wielding professor say that capitalism has always existed
Tbh I've never met a PhD that was this retarded.
>>

 No.99170

>>99156
It's not true since the majority of economic production for the vast majority of human history didn't involve capitalists.
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 No.99180

>>99070
That article seems to contradict one of the graphs (the one on malnourishment) but not the others)
>(4) As for hunger, your claim here relies on a methodology used by the FAO after 2012 that has been widely criticized by scholars. The hunger-reduction narrative depends on a calorie line that – like your $1.90 poverty line – is too low to support normal human activity, ignores the impacts of food price crises, and tells us nothing about nutrient deficiencies. I cover this in detail in the second half of this paper. According to the FAO’s earlier methodology, both the number and proportion of people in hunger was higher in 2009 than in 1995 – another trend that you ignore.
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 No.99201

>>99180
All those other graphs show is that industrial capitalism is better at meeting human needs than pre-industrial feudalism, something no Marxist would deny. The problem is in assuming that because of this improvement, capitalism is the best means of eliminating poverty altogether, or even in assuming that capitalism is capable of doing so. That's not even getting into the possibility that those other graphs also rest on a flawed methodology designed to exaggerate the progress made in eliminating poverty.
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 No.99235

>>99201
I thought feudalism was more efficient though, in producing for utility?
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 No.99242

>>99235
Possibly, but it can't match the sheer productive power of industrialized society. Capitalism distributes resources with incredible inefficiency, however its capacity to churn out goods is so massive that despite this, it will increase the overall wellbeing when compared to pre-industrial society. The point of socialism is to harness the productive capacities which capitalism made possible and direct them towards the meeting of human needs rather than the reproduction and accumulation of capital.
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 No.100152

>>98929
This is World Bank (a US tentacle for stealing natural resources of 3rd world countries and gifting them debt) data though.
World bank considers "not poverty" their arbitrary $1.something while the UN considers to lead a "dignified normal life" people need at least 6 $ a day
In fact if you take China off the map in the last 40 years poverty has increased everywhere else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4FES0ehyI
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 No.100155

>>98929
Also I just checked - the UN states you need $7.40 a day for "basic nutrition and normal human life expectancy" and using this number poverty everywhere has increased.
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 No.100158

>>98835
>poverty has somehow been reduced in these past twenty years
It has though. China has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
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 No.100214

>>98826
I wouldn't be surprised if american universities are full of libertarian propaganda but here in Europe market failures are introduced in basic courses and how state intervention is needed for markets to function properly. Neo-Keynesian economics is the mainstream today and libertarians are considered as freaks.
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 No.100218

>>100158
Liberals like to point out how they fixed absolute poverty but 70% of the people that were lifted from absolute poverty lived China.
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 No.100245

>>99118
this reminds me of my highschool years, though in micro the only time China was brought up was when talking abt
"Control Economies"
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 No.100248

>>100214
Well in America we are trained to fall at porky’s feet and lick his balls clean
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 No.100401

>>100214
That's because the EU is "ordoliberal", an evolution of the German "social market" economy except the workers get less benefits since the Hartz IV reforms that framed them as being lazy slobs living off the public purse.
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 No.100481

>>98826
Pretty much. I live in what you would call a socialist country yet the Econ people are the most reactionary people I’ve ever seen. Basically unironic lolberts and neoliberals, dressing up their teaching with social democracy sounding buzzwords. They practically worship cunts like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates as gods of the free market. Even shit taste like eating trash food from Buffett is somehow guidance from the heaven to get rich. Zionism is looked at with admiration from these “people”.
Enough to get some of them in trouble with the law. At least the political science courses are good.
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 No.100507

>>100481
Don't Vietnamese econ departments teach Marxist economics?
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 No.100527

>>100507
>Don't Vietnamese econ departments teach Marxist economics?
Most economics departments will, at least in the west. I do not see why they wouldn't in Vietnam.
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 No.100545

>>100527
According to Vietnam anon they seemingly don’t
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 No.100552

>>100545
They don't even do it in China. You have the Department of Economics and the Department of Marxism. Look it up on the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.
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 No.100554

>>100481
But I thought communism meant no say bad about communism economics
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 No.100561

>>100527
At my uni Capital was required reading for upper year Econ classes. I'd be shocked if it wasn't the same in Vietnam.
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 No.100573

File: 1614617638612.png (242.8 KB, 327x499, ClipboardImage.png)

>>100561
>At my uni Capital was required reading for upper year Econ classes.
Outside of the deranged mind of the burgers Capital is a seminal piece of economic theory, I honestly could not understand why anyone would bother to do an econ course that whitewashes away marx?
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 No.100594

>>100573
>I honestly could not understand why anyone would bother to do an econ course that whitewashes away marx?

This is a rhetorical question, right?
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 No.100640

>>100152
>>100155
None of those graphs were about whether or not people make more than some arbitrary poverty line
>>

 No.104656

>>99168
>Ask them about pre-capitalist societies and see what they say

Why do you think that matters? Who cares what they did?
>>

 No.104919

>>104656
Because assuming that the rules of capitalism are some kind of transhistorical transgeographical phenomenon, at least those posited as “how the world works” according to econcuckolds, is peak idealism.
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 No.104937

>>98854
What is efficiency?
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 No.105557

>>104919
Political economy has bent all of history to its will through the reification of its categories. They say that capitalism has "always existed" in one form or another, because it's just a part of our human nature.
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 No.105561

>>98854
The efficiency criteria is inherently anti-communist, it presupposes human activity as instrumental activity (or purposeful activity as Marx called it) instead of an end to itself, while in a communist society non-alienated labor appears as freely directed activity, or self-activity.
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 No.105587

>>100481
>Even shit taste like eating trash food from Buffett is somehow guidance from the heaven to get rich
They ape Buffett's dietary habits? That's indescribably cucked.
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 No.120052

>>98835
bro why do you always post the most violent shit, please do not spergout on us
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 No.145916

>>98826
Because humanities education in general is being boiled down hard thanks to these faglords and their feefees
fuck you could probably pass AP US History based off of hobby research and history youtube channels, the value of degrees is diluted
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 No.146117

>>98835
Bro, I’m the guy who says that people need corrective sodomy and you’re kinda creeping me out. Chill.
>>

 No.146131

>>99128
>Kissinger tier realism
Uhh… based? Thats universally good practice for IR. Kissingers only flaw was that he opperated from a point of view where all his actions were ment to further the US empire. If he was serving USSR while doing the same kind of plans, we'd be calling him gigabased. Respect your enemies and learn their strategies.
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 No.146134

File: 1617166296842.webm (4.97 MB, 480x360, Efficiency-is-nonsense.webm)

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 No.146135

>>120052
I wasn’t hugged as a child
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 No.146137

>>146131
So if Kissinger had bombed a million Americans in secret he would be gigabased?
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 No.146149

Economics is not a bad thing, and it's good to learn as much shit as you can about it. If not you're just some retard that's all talk and will get BTFO by some econ101 who knows that your extent of economic knowledge is phrases like commodity production or whatever shit from classical economics. The best way to BTFO any econ person is telling them that Marx was a classical economists part of the classical stock of the Adam Smiths, Ricardos and John Stuart Mill. So when you call yourself a Marxist just say you're a classical economist which would force them into a position to negate their god Adam Smith.
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 No.146210

File: 1617172046898.jpg (6.67 KB, 236x284, b4b98a83da0cd1ebc13248bcb9….jpg)

>>146137
If that was effective strategy that had lead to US collapse and USSR victory in the Cold War, then yes. Yes I do think that would have been gigabased. And before you ask, I'd say the same if soviets have sponsored CONTRA types in US-alligned states.
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 No.146220

>>146149
I think about this too. Imagine some Econ Major arguing with you and asking specific questions, that you as a Marxist never bothered to read up about? You would look like a fool. That's why you should learn a bit about it. I am currently reading Wolffs Contending Economic Theories to understand Keynesiean and Neoclassical Theory a bit better
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 No.146235

>>146220
Which is good cuz the econs only understand about economics from the paradigms of the classical, neoclassical and neoliberal forms. To be a Marxist in the modern day comes with the presupposition that you’re still in the classical economy days of the 19th century which ended with the Great Depression and we moved into Keynesian economics. I guess you could say I’m a mixture of the Marxist class outlook in political economy and the Keynesian theories.
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 No.146240

>>99074
I second this, IR is also a major glowie/ROTC major, tons of IR majors glow or will glow in the future
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 No.146243

>>100214
It depends on the school. Some schools are libertarian hellholes like you describe (University of Chicago), others are more Keynesian Flavoured, and 1-2 even have radical politics like the New School in new york
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 No.146298

>>146240
The funny thing about IR majors is that they're so insulated in their propaganda bubble that they blue-screen the moment they're faced with a dissenting viewpoint. Insufferable econ majors usually at least have some talking points about wine barrels memorized. A few years ago in an intro to IR class, the "liberal internationalist" professor was extolling the virtues of the "democratic peace hypothesis". In response, I asked her in front of the class:
<"Just to simplify things, the core of the democratic peace theory is that everyday citizens are less likely to desire war than political elites, correct?"
>"That's correct, more democratic institutions is correlated with less armed conflict".
<"Believe it or not, I agree with that to a large extent. That's why I think we should put the decision to go to war directly in the hands of the people: have a national referendum before any major troop deployment. This was a historic Trot demand before WWII Would you support this reform?"

Like I said before, she froze up worse than Windows ME. In theory this reform fits in perfectly with the "democratic peace hypothesis", but she felt in her gut that supporting this reform would be very, very bad for US imperialism.
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 No.146386

>>146134
Prof Richard d. wolf DESTROYS cockshautists with FACTS and LOGIC
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 No.146388

>>146386
I would like to see a Debate between those two to be honest
>>

 No.146493

>>146298
you got her :)
>>

 No.146496

>>146386

what does that clip have to do with Cockshott?
>>

 No.146502

>>146388
they would probably agree alot because they both like althusser tbh
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 No.146510

>>99170

Enterpernuesip is a debated subject among production ,although its not real capitalist propaganda
>>98826
European here ,any university with "majors" isnt a serious institution you damm americans
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 No.146512

>>146298
Did you have Sex with her afterwards?
>>

 No.146520

>>146510
i am a euro economist ama
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 No.146557

>>99118
They arent wrong. This is the capitaliat mode of production.
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 No.146625

>>146298
get her ass!!
>>

 No.146638

>>146520
Why do you people keep telling lies that your field in universities and wider world is just all far-right who does not understand economics on this board when this is so observably un true that it can only be repeated on image boards again and again for any legitimacy.?
>>

 No.147282

>>99118
This actually pretty good and simple, the sperg lords in the thread are having a tantrum at some simple basic shit to do with production. Partisan hacks that have never read more than a wikipedia page worth of economics.
>>

 No.147308

>>146388
To have a debate you first need a disagreement.
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 No.147321

>>147308
Maybe more of a Table Talk. Also I'm pretty sure that Cockshott opposes the long term installement of Market Socialism
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 No.147328

>>147308
Three disagreements I see between them:
1) Cockshott is a Mao-style populist, while Wolf just tries to package in socialism by lying to Americans about how actually it torally is cool and burger-compatible
2) Market socialist tendencies of Wolf vs strictly anti-market ones of Cockshott
3) Knowing that Wolf's channel platforms David "LTV ain't real" Harvey, I wouldn't be surprised that he also is hiding some Eurocom brainrot as well
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 No.147330

>>147282
Bro, you posted cringe
>>

 No.147332

>>147328
Ah yes, typical straw men of people who don't actually follow Wolff.
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 No.147334

>>147332
Educate us please
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 No.147335

>>147328
>Cockshott is a Mao-style populist

Based on what evidence do you draw this conclusion
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 No.147338

>>147335
Cockshott is a maoist or ex maoist if you read his blogs he cites mao's on contradiction and other works
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 No.147342

>>147338
>he cites mao's on contradictio
This is a stable and doesn't make you a maoist
>>

 No.147344

>>147334
Wolff criticizes markets all the time, the onus is on you to support claims that he's a market socialist.
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 No.147352

>>147344
Doesn't he say stuff like the USSR was State Capitalist and the USA needs Coop-workerdemocracy? Genuinly curious. I read some stuff from him and he doesn't talk like that in his books and only in his videos
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 No.147359

>>147352
I think Wolff talks more about financial cooperative holdings rather than physical economy assets. Where most of our economy is in commercial and financial services. Real production is largely dead in US and no longer accounts for real economy.
>>

 No.147360

>>146638
I think it's cause a lot of people's experience with economists are high school professors who have neither the interest/will(can't blame them their subject is seen as unimportant and teens are assholes) nor the education to provide a good economic classes to young kids
The second reason is cause the USA is pretty bad in anything not stem related
There is a rift between continental and American economist although if you actually get on an academic level you will see that they can be pretty OK economists
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 No.147361

>>147335
he critically supports Jack Ma
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 No.147362

>>147361
Source
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 No.147364

>>

 No.147371

>>147352
Wolff's major critique of the USSR (not unlike Cockshott's critique) is that it was unsufficiently democratic and created class conflicts over production surplus between workers and bureaucrats. He thinks the worker cooperative movement can be a vehicle to address the critical missing microeconomic component of Lenin-style centrally planned systems but he is not an advocate for markets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H3Ch6VXL7Q
>>

 No.147372

>>147366
I though you meant he is supporting him and his role as a Bourgeois

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