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/meta/ - Ruthless criticism of all that exists (in leftypol.org)

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New Announcement: IRC<=>Matrix bridge #leftypol on Rizon
Please give feedback on proposals, new every Monday : /meta/


File: 1629034355764.png (1.81 MB, 3800x2550, Sickle.png)

 No.10062

This is a long post, but it's important we do this properly in order to prevent the same bullshit happening again. All constructive feedback is helpful. Feedback from people who don't use Matrix or /meta/ often is especially useful.

It's clear the previous site was screwed up in many ways. While there are obvious surface issues such as moderation tensions, there were underlying design flaws in the moderation system that both compounded these issues and made the user experience worse than it should have been. Some results of this flawed system is how many policy changes were a surprise to most users despite being discussed for days or over week, even users who regularly visited the /meta/ board had no visibility over these discussions.

It is the view of the entire moderation team that this is unacceptable.

From what I know, the previous leftypol.org's (supposed) transparency effort was as follows:
>general moderation discussion takes place in the Matrix Congress chat
(in reality, it became normalized for many mods to default to the private Matrix Staff Room, even for non-sensitive matters)
>mod voting on changes takes place on a locked, unlisted, public board, /assembly/
(this is the same board that was made public and open by leftychan, previous weeks' votes were moved to the archive board every Monday. it was extremely badly advertised)
>votes would be declared in the /meta/ voting thread, along with their outcomes
(as evident, this almost never happened in practice, with no-one doing this after the first month except for a short-lived revival attempt by Discomrade)

While technically the design was public, none of it was easily noticable to most users and became effectively (by both design and then culture) private-by-default. When a crisis happens and priorites take over, all the extra tasks can easily get forgotten. That's why open-by-default is a design quality we should aim for in the new moderation framework. We should have to go out of our way to talk about site changes in private (for special cases concerning things like IP bans or server technical details, since it is inappropriate to show that sensitive information publicly).


Here are some possible solution we've proposed so far, please tell us what you like, what you don't like, what you would like, or any other suggestions you have.
>Announcing all site/policy decisions in the red Global Announcements section when discussion begins, with a link to a /meta/ thread for that issue.
>Announcing discussion of major changes to a board with a new sticky thread on that board.
>Renaming the staff room to make it clear it should be used for confidential matters.
>Removing shitposting and off-topic tangents from the Congress Matrix room that should be in the regular /leftypol/ Chat room, so it can appropriately be more easily used to openly discuss minor, temporary, time-critical site matters like potential deletions, sages, bans and appeals

 No.10064

File: 1629036134731.png (15.9 KB, 991x1753, 128472347938291.png)

Seems good to me.

 No.10069

The latest drama wasn't because of a lack of transparency that caused outrage among the postetariat, it was pure drama janny drama and I think these elaborate plans feed into and allow this drama by creating an overdeveloped structure.

So my suggestion would be to keep things simpler. No one really cares about moderation unless you fuck up, at which point a secondary Matrix room (which no one is going to use anyways) doesn't matter much.

 No.10070

>>10069
could more transparency keep this janny drama in check?

 No.10071

>>10070
That poster is a retarded shitter who believes they have all the answers in their hand (in lieu of a writing desk). Keep them babbling.

 No.10075

File: 1629057445546.png (68.45 KB, 692x248, Traitors.PNG)

Fix the manifesto pls, it contains reactionary elements.
It's still up in the rules/faq page.

 No.10076

>>10062
>(this is the same board that was made public and open by leftychan, previous weeks' votes were moved to the archive board every Monday. it was extremely badly advertised)

huh? leftchan was around for like 48 hours

 No.10078

>>10075
We will amend the manifesto and post a new one once we bring the site back into order and make some changes to how we vote and so on.

 No.10079

>Announcing all site/policy decisions in the red Global Announcements section when discussion begins, with a link to a /meta/ thread for that issue.
The obvious solution.
>Announcing discussion of major changes to a board with a new sticky thread on that board.
I'm not opposed. The obvious foreseeable issue people not using other boards here.

For the following, I haven't used the Matrix since before the January migration and lost my account credentials.
>Renaming the staff room to make it clear it should be used for confidential matters.
Sure. Most public and semi-public servers normally have these rooms.
>Removing shitposting and off-topic tangents from the Congress Matrix room that should be in the regular /leftypol/ Chat room, so it can appropriately be more easily used to openly discuss minor, temporary, time-critical site matters like potential deletions, sages, bans and appeals
Seems good to me.

>>10069
Shut up, jannie.

>>10076
/assembly/ always existed, but it was just a hidden board that people barely looked at.
.net just forced the board into the public eye and turned it into a "decisions commentary" board for some reason.

 No.10082

>>10069
>it was pure drama janny drama
Janny drama stems from places. I would even say most of it came from the couping party believing they represented the majority of users and Caballo and one or two other mods didn't. Realistically, no-one fucking knows because we (yes, both sides, especially Coma) kept things unnecessarily internal or unlisted.
>overdeveloped structure
To some degree, and I also think that's part of it. We relied too much on the external structure (congress, /assembly/) instead of doing stuff on the appropriate existing boards. I still believe some basic structure is needed to attempt to get some consistency and awareness of changes with a site this big, since we opt not to be a completely hierarchical dictatorship like 4chan or 8chan.
>No one really cares about moderation unless you fuck up
Fuck ups are inevitable, in my personal view and experience. Even misclicks can have consequences: we've had a popular cyclical general removed due to a former mod ghostixo banning all posts by an IP, which we had months prior agreed not to do except on very obvious 4chan raiders with no other post activity (they could theoretically use the same proxy/VPN node as a legitimate user).
In fact, I believe in some ways moderation is already fucked up and it's normalized. Again, this is my own view, but I think most bans are far too long, especially for quality-related reasons.

But overall, you're saying people don't care until it's too late, but by then drama has happened. Prevention, although harder, is the solution.

>>Announcing all site/policy decisions in the red Global Announcements section when discussion begins, with a link to a /meta/ thread for that issue.

>The obvious solution.
My only fear is if people will notice changes, but I think they will. Does anyone know if they work on mobile??

>.net just forced the board into the public eye

Honestly I respect them for it and think it's a good move, good on them, but it's definitely not a solution to the problem. The board was a bad idea in my hindsight view and we have not revived it.

 No.10184

Why not just elect someone trusted as the chairman and have him call the shots when drama arises instead of this overengineered system?

 No.10186

>>10184
a) There isn't really an overcomplicated system, we vote while at the same time communicating the votes.
b) Any [sysadmin] with no political education is a potential [wrecker]. The problem is now removed. We can pick up where we left off.

 No.10201

>>10184
I offered a similar position to coupists during the domain transfer but they just called me a dictator for wanting said position.

 No.10257

>>10186
>b) Any [sysadmin] with no political education is a potential [wrecker]. The problem is now removed. We can pick up where we left off.
I mean if you don't open a non-profit with the posses of the domain and the servers someone is ultimately gonna have the last word. Might as well make it official, no?

 No.10262

>>10257
Yes, it was explained here >>7 who is the owner under "bourgeois law" (why is no one reading anything relevant to what they write here).
This is a trivial fact.
The sysadmin abusing this fact has now been removed. When you do work for this site, there is an expectation that you get a say in things.

 No.10292

>>10062
Transparency is good but I think the most important thing at this point is stability.
Don't hire retards who are going to immediately sperg out and ruin the site when they get into a disagreement. As a policy you should avoid nazbols or anything of that sort.

 No.11232

File: 1630545311437.png (2.89 KB, 509x61, ClipboardImage.png)

Is this thread already implemented and therefore moot? The new procedures here are still unclear to me.

>>10062
>Announcing all site/policy decisions in the red Global Announcements section when discussion begins, with a link to a /meta/ thread for that issue.
Picrel? Yes.
>Announcing discussion of major changes to a board with a new sticky thread on that board.
Yeah.
>Renaming the staff room to make it clear it should be used for confidential matters.
Fine.
>Removing shitposting and off-topic tangents from the Congress Matrix room that should be in the regular /leftypol/ Chat room, so it can appropriately be more easily used to openly discuss minor, temporary, time-critical site matters like potential deletions, sages, bans and appeals
I'm not a Matrixfag, i'm a grillpiller who came here via picrel. Whatever important shit is going on should be mentioned in the red thing.

>>10184
Isn't that what Zer0 was essentially?

 No.11399

I wish you fucking faggots would just run this place like a forum instead of wasting time with this bullshit play-pretend democracy and running the community ever deeper into the fucking ground.

 No.11410

/Scotspol/ /Northern Irelandpol/ rest should be killed and the queen guillotined in live TV.

 No.11414

>>11399
how so

 No.11824

Giga based

 No.12904

i love you /leftypol/ – but i post less every year. /leftypol/ never improves because it insists on using the wrong tools for the right work. this sort of ineptitude is ~transparent~ to most people. after a while they can see that nothing they do here reaches the outside world. a site that will turn anybody who cares about it into a doomer. /leftypol/ needs to connect more with other sites. what you get when you depend on a vocal minority on a chan like this is people bitching about linking to getchan and other drama that makes it more and more closed off. ignore them – in fact do the opposite – grow the site. set up a mastodon and bridge it with the matrix and the boards. get rid of /assembly/ and any private matrix rooms.

 No.12906

>>12904
Based. I agree. How do we do outreach though? Simply "if you build it they will come" is unreasonable IMO.

 No.12909

>>12904
/assembly/ doesn't exist any more, all mod votes happen in /meta/

 No.12910

File: 1631962638724.png (Spoiler Image, 250.3 KB, 500x360, cc5-vic.png)

>>10184
>he doesn't know about the king of leftypol

 No.12911

>>12910
more of a figurehead, if you will. british royalty-tier

 No.12912

>>12910
if this isn't made by caballo it's cringe, if it is then it's doubly so.


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