No.1135[Last 50 Posts]
This board is a successor to https://bunkerchan.xyz/
which will continue to operate under the management of Space and their remaining/new moderators. We wish them the best of luck for the future despite our differences.BRIEF RUNDOWN
In short, /leftypol/ has split due to drama which essentially boils down to a dispute over server access on Bunkerchan. We, the /leftypol/ moderation team, have been forced to leave by Space, who removed our moderator rights due to our decision to stand together in solidarity rather than allow Space to demand the removal of certain mods who he viewed as primarily responsible for behind the scenes efforts to try to force him to give us the power to keep the site running and to improve it beyond its current state. Therefore, we have decided to activate our own clone of /leftypol/ which we have been preparing in case of this eventuality. We do not welcome this split or take it lightly but from our perspective it has been forced upon us. We are now working to make this site feature complete and to progress ever further.
A full outline of the history of the dispute and current events (as well as our next steps) is below if you would like to do the extra reading.BACKGROUND
To briefly outline the problems that we have been having, they most importantly concern access to the server side of the side. At present, nobody other than Space has ultimate control over the site and Space is still required to approve any serious code changes (IE ones other than those that can be made by site staff). This is a relatively normal state of affairs of course, but the problem is that Space is not always available when we need him and has intermittent periods of what I can only call disinterest in the site.
Often, it has been difficult to get him to approve simple fixes to the site which are urgently needed to keep it running or else bring it back when it does break. Many of the technical issues (not all, but some) that we have had to deal with since the migration of /leftypol/ to Bunkerchan have been due to Space not taking the time to implement fixes which have been suggested by our tech team. When the changes do not directly affect the stability of the site, it is often even harder to get Space’s attention.
For example, Space’s approval was needed to make changes to the board headers to add new boards which has led to long delays in adding new boards to the topbar, and other changes. Often, when we the mod team have seemed to dally in adding new features it is because of the difficulty with getting approval for changes. This can often take weeks, which sadly makes us look unreliable and hampers our flexibility as a board.
The clear solution to this issue was for Space to share his server access with the highest members of our technical staff so that they could push through changes themselves. For months, Space promised to do so but would never deliver, or would add on unreasonable demands to his original agreement. For example, when Comrade King, former admin of /GETchan/, agreed to merge his site with Bunkerchan, it was agreed that Space would give him server access, but this was never done. Later on Space demanded that King share a scan of his driver’s licence as ‘verification’ which he found unacceptable. The tension between /GET/’s staff and Space has contributed to their decision to try to once again leave the site, unfortunately.
In addition, Space agreed to give server access to Comrade_Rat who has been the main technical contributor on our staff and is someone Space knows personally. Rat was part of the Bunkerchan staff before /leftypol/ moved to the site in the wake of 8chan’s demise. Due to Rat’s presence and willingness to work with us since the migration we would have been happy with this, but as stated, Space stonewalled this and promised it would be done while never doing so. I (Caballo) eventually personally pressed Space on this matter as can be seen in the attached screenshots but he refused to back down.
One of the key issues regarding server access was our dissatisfaction with our board’s software, Lynxchan. This software is difficult in many ways and our technical staff ultimately decided that it would be better to switch to new board software rather than try to fix something they felt was fundamentally an inferior option. Many of the peculiar issues of the site which we have been asked to fix have been caused by Lynxchan’s deficiencies. To that end, our technical staff have been working on custom software, Gochan, but in the interim, we wanted to switch to the more established Lainchan software. However, this process would be realistically impossible to complete without server access.
As a side issue, Space used his status as site owner to override our decisions about the site, telling us what we could and could not do and ignoring our own voting when he disagreed. Of particular concern was the question of funding the site and of monetisation. We of course recognised that Space was bearing the financial burden of hosting the site, and we are still grateful for him doing so, but our suggestions for collecting donations in an organised manner to make the ownership of the site more ‘community based’ or democratic were brushed off.THE CONSPIRACY
Eventually, we decided that we had no other option than to create a backup plan as trust in Space had dropped so low. We felt that we could not continue to put in so much work when our efforts were undone by Space’s inaction. At the time we embarked on this plan, it was common to not be able to talk to Space for weeks at a time. We knew that ultimately Space could not be forced to hand over control of the site to anyone, so we endeavoured to make our own site which we had control over, both as a contingency plan in case we were removed from moderating /leftypol/ by Space, and as a bargaining chip to show Space that we were serious about our demands.
This site will be hosted at leftypol.org , a domain which was given to us by the former owner of the /leftypol/ splinter site at that address. Our technical staff have worked hard to enable us to import the content of bunkerchan.xyz to that site at the moment of our potential departure, so that our board’s topics and discussions are not lost as was the case when 8chan closed. In effect, we have set up a contingency so that our tenure as the mod team of /leftypol/, and the experience of the users of /leftypol/ and related boards, can continue without much disruption. We have also changed the board software to Lainchan to enable a smoother experience for the users.
It took us months to set up this site, during which time we hid it from Space, as we feared his potential reaction. We knew that Space could, if he so chose, remove us as moderators of /leftypol/ and install others, which we felt would be potentially ruinous. That sounds a bit egocentric, I admit, but the drama involving the rogue admin Pyongyang, who Space initially supported over all of us, convinced us that if we were removed, /leftypol/ would likely be taken in an ideological direction we would find unacceptable.
To emphasise, Pyongyang was not merely part of a different leftist sect, as our mod team comprises a wide range of tendencies, but was arguably a full blown reactionary that reverted our actions in secret while creating a /troon/ board that was set to become a haven for idpol and stupidpol-esque rhetoric. Pyongyang eventually stepped down on his own when it became clear that he was not enjoying the support of the users, with Space refusing to take action to remove him.
During these last months we have run the site as usual and attempted to hide the tension between us and Space (though it has been noticed occasionally by some users). In the past month or so, Space has become more involved with the site for personal reasons, which we viewed as a welcome development. We always hoped that we would eventually we able to reason with Space and convince him to hand over access to the site to us, and it made solving routine issues much easier for him to be involved. That said, we continued work on the backup site.THE SPLIT
Recently, Space was approached by a person on Twitter who asked if he could be given ownership over the hidden board, /dead/. Space agreed to this without consulting us, which we viewed as an overreach. While it is true that /dead/ was on the site before /leftypol/ was, we the /leftypol/ mods have taken over 95% of the day to day running of the site in the time since migration. The vast majority of activity on Bunkerchan has taken place in the relatively short time since we have moved here.
To make a long story short, our opposition made Space suspicious and led to him discovering the existence of our conspiracy. Space had arranged a closed meeting between the admins of the site, and was stonewalling communications with us. This led to a group of the moderators deciding to make the split public with the original version of this post. We originally predicted that following this meeting there was a possibility that the board could be taken out of our hands and given to outside actors, which turned out to be the case. Space was not interested in negotiation and demanded the removal of four mods who had been involved in the conspiracy including an admin. In addition, he would only give server access to a ‘loyalist’ admin who was rarely involved with /leftypol/ since the migration.
We, the moderators of /leftypol/, decided we would not be divided and conquered by Space and stood together in solidarity. Therefore, Space removed around 20 moderators who were members of the conspiracy, along with a few new mods who were not aware of it. Therefore, we have decided to continue our tenure at leftypol.org and we hope that you will join us on this journey, though it will ultimately be up to you. This was not the outcome that anyone wanted and it is not the one that we wanted. This site is not ready for use in many ways and we are aware of its current limitations, but our hand was forced by an infiltrator revealing the full extent of our planning to Space. Perhaps there will be some reconciliation in future but at present we have to assume that will not happen.MOVING FORWARD
Our first priority will be to bring this site up to feature parity with bunkerchan and to make the user experience similar. We still have a long way to go in this respect and we are aware of the many missing features and conveniences that have not been carried over. The technical team is working hard to improve the site as quickly as they can while the other mods work on non-coding tasks. Eventually we will try to surpass bunkerchan by adding features which have been requested for many months.
Secondly, we will determine the status of /GET/ and /ref/. Their administration is currently convening to decide whether they will remain on Bunkerchan, move to this board, or move to their own bunker at GETchan.net. They have unfortunately been suffering their own split which is partly attributable to the situation on Bunkerchan, and we hope it will come to an amicable conclusion for everyone. We wish the /GET/ community success wherever they choose to reside.
Thirdly, we want to create a more open and community-centred style of moderation and decision making. We will host a public monthly discussion with each other and the userbase where we discuss the running of the board, what is working well and what might not be, changes we wish to see, new priorities and plans, and so on. The first of these should happen soon so that we can gather feedback about the current situation.
Fourth, we need to consider our current situation and what we could do differently in the future. As I outlined above, this outcome was not what anyone wanted and we need to try to make more harmonious decisions in future. We should never allow ourselves to be put into the situation which occurred on Bunkerchan again, where we are at the mercy of one person. To that end, we are going to explore the best ways to share power and responsibility among the administration/moderation team and perhaps even the users as we experiment with direct democracy.
Fifth, we will try to explore ways to end the current split. We know it is not a positive development and we understand that it hurts our community. To this end, we will attempt to retain positive relations with Bunkerchan as part of a unified webring, and examine possible diplomatic solutions to the split. We are open to a reconciliation but of course there are terms that we would expect to be met and of course Space and the new administration of Bunkerchan is likely to have their own conditions. For now, we have both agreed to leave a sticky advertising each other’s boards in our respective /leftypol/s.
Finally, we will update our manifesto and rules to reflect the new situation. This will be a relatively simple but time consuming effort and is not a priority. For now we would ask users to simply use their common sense, rules that refer to ‘bunkerchan’ should be read as applying to ‘leftypol.org’, and so on.
I would like to once again thank you all for your patience in the current times. We will try to modify this topic to keep updated with current events.
With love, the moderation team
It isn't hard to configure and tbh still don't know why they haven't done it yet
(fyi if any leftypol dev is reading this there's a java folder full of options, it is as easy as enabling them on the instance config )
Do not fret, even if I disappear, My posts, and my ideals will never truly be gone. For someone will have archived this place.
I shall be watching my comrades, I may not always be here in the bunker with you all. We may not have formed deep connections, I still consider some of you all my friends, allies, comrades, and even brothers.
Do not cry, wipe your tears. If things end up well I will return once more to the graces of you all. I leave you with lyrics and a song.
I'll say goodbye, soon.
Though it's the end of the world..
Don't blame yourself now..
And if its true..
I will surround you and give life to a world
That's our own.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2TE0DjdNqI
Stay safe comrades. For one day we shall return to the stars where we rightfully belong.
Why did you do it in secret? That's a retarded way to do it. Of course space_ would retaliate and of course the userbase would consider this an overreach. You should have suggested this plan in the open, on /leftypol/, not after you got busted. Good intentions pave the path to hell.
Anyway, I hope you get this place running quickly, because once /pol/ gets wind of this, they will raid bunkerchan and it won't be pretty since there is no moderation now anymore.
If we announced that we were creating a splinter board we thought it was most likely that Space would retaliate by removing us as mods, which is why we wanted to get it running in secret before we announced anything.
Don't call it a splinter board, call it a backup board, and make a pinned thread on /leftypol/ pointing out the problems with space_. Don't cross both the userbase and space_, this is not how you secure support.
Alright, how can I help? I'm a webdev, I mainly work with Django/JQuery but I can manage
Don't worry,it's a mess on a computer too.
>>1141>we thought it was most likely that Space would retaliate by removing us as mods
oh good that you avoided that
Rip /leftypol/, long live /leftypol/ ! We will do it!
Don't worry. Bunkerchan was too.
When do we expect this site to look gud? I don't see an option for custom css or js, so I can't fix it myself.
Create a dark theme for the site or anything that doesn't make me blind and I am in
Thanks to everyone who wants to volunteer. We want and need your help but with the suddenness of this whole thing we really need a little more time to sort out the logistics of bringing on more contributors. Tech team pulled an all nighter after a very dramatic day to get this site up. We will persevere
keep it up, comrades
this is the feedback thread: >>30111
Well, it wasn't really ready when it got dropped, lol. So, you can't be to mad.
ANYONE WHO WANTS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE TECH TEAM COME TO THE MATRIX CHAT AND ASK AROUND TO ZERO OR COMRADE RAT OR ZUL
Tbh the biggest argument for posting here so far are the posters who are against the site, who seem to be every insufferable retard and schizo that has ever been banned. I can't imagine wanting to spend free time talking to these dumb spergs.
Seems like my Swan song post was actually saved on here. Interesting.
Hoping for three things.
1) That hideous pol tier way of showing the catalog to be fixed with the default choice being last reply
2)Adding fucking dark theme
3) Harsh policy towards libs and fascists alike
>>1165>Harsh policy towards libs
This will never happen. Half the moderation team are unironic libs, and those are just the ones who admit it.
Just a question: Can you actually give a definition of "liberal" that is cohesive and not vague and nebulous?
Bunkerchan wasn’t that bad when they added the ability to add pictures on mobile but this is just a shit show
support the ruling class or class collaboration to some degree
Advocating for 1)Cvility politics
Can you give me a working definition of idpol on that account? You are just moving the goal post back to other vague ass terms.
I mean, I suppose that voting bloo is acceptable, but, again, what are "civility politifcs?"
1/3, not a good look.
Che….is that you?
the best BO in """""leftypol""""" (commiepol) history so far
Damnit, che, how does it feel to be the most correct person in the history of leftypol? I understand the old staff had their issues, but, the state of things now is much, much worse. What do?
Idpol: Putting identities and their needs as central to politics and somehow separated from class
Civility politics: The tendency of promoting form over content in political sphere, like "oh no x is mean so he must say stupid things"
Hello Mods :) :) :)
oldBO is a retard wrecker look at the goddam mess we are in now
also this board is fucking ugly. Get to work you slags. Listen to the users next time.
this theme is fucking disgusting
this theme is fucking horrible
How the fuck do i use this website what the shit this is somehow less accessible han bunkerchan
we're working on it
Yeah but it was never going to be ready to begin with. You would need a CSS expert or something, the lainchan guys never even coded it with mobile in mind to begin with.
source? where is that video
Makes it a bit better for phone browsing
Open the link in a new tab and bookmark it
The site 100% NEEDS a 'board' page with PPH / Active users like bunkerchan just gonna say.
>>1163>NOOOOOO THE MODS NEED TO BABY LE TRANSERINOS MORE THAN THEY ALREADY DID BACK ON BUCKERCHAN!!!! ANYONE WHO CRITICIZES TRANS IDEOLOGY OR MAKES FUN OF TRANNIES IS A REACTIONARY CHUD INCEL NAZI AND NEEDS TO BE BANNED!!!!!
What is "trans ideology" anyways?
didn't someone post a version of the bunkerchan dark theme in the landing thread? someone should mainline that.
hey, OldBO, you are on the transition to leftypol.org train too, right?
Pro trans and anti trans people are both shit, no idpol get out
The only correct take.
its gonna become filled with incels, schizos, crypto-poltards and nazbols who want to whine about muh tr00ns all day
although theres no word filter here, NIGGER
You could say a lot of shit about space_, but his album wasn't "shitty". I thought it was pretty good.
not just there
>>1163>I hope this time we have a fucking hardline anti-reactionary position against fucking anti-trans people and the like.
So you actually literally want to turn the place into reddit? What is the point. The whole idea of leftypol was as the looser leftist board. Literally nobody will come here, if you ban them, they will go to the bigger site.
Mods, you are going to have to attract people here, and that means making it appealing, you are not going to get this by banning either reactionary or liberal idpol.
I hope you understand this, and I hope you also understand the mistakes you have made, and that truly, if you want this board to be better than that one, you have to come up with a robust system of properly engaging the userbase
what do you guys think will happen in the next few days?
I do not think that this situation will end in a friendly agreement.
Well considering pyongyang freely joined the new bunkerchan matrix room, I would tend to agree with you.
I think this place will die off pretty fast.
Sadly i see 20 posts on bunkerchan for every one here.
There's still a possibility though that things will improve.
I mean, can you really keep things afloat with three moderators while also shitting out "522 Connection Timed Out" or "MongoError: Topology was destroyed" errors every few hours?
Reminder: anonymous internet polls are trivial to rig and you're a fucking idiot if you still think they say anything.
Nice to see anti-ionlinepoll anon posting here!
Have you seen the state of that place? It's literally filled with polacks and nazbols. No way that cancer doesn't, eventually, die off.
we're slowly but steadily getting up to par with the old lynxchan tech(which was a nightmare to work with and now 6+ can work on it instead of 1 going through space).
Once that's out of the way it'll be a competition to who can make a more pleasing user experience. Even if leftypol remains behind in users, it will still fill a niche of a backup board. Then its a waiting game of space fucking up like he has countless times.
i plan on using both sites, since i don't understand what happened, and think that the 2 sites can be each others backup, i need to find a browser add on to make this site look darker
there is one here >>30328
There are ways to tell if those polls are being rigged. I was watching it and it didn't seem rigged to me.
what we need now is someone to use that mobile app to make this place compatible with phone users. its likely going to be one of the last things the engineers focus on and rightfully so. but in the meantime someone should be able to quickly make leftypol compatible with that app. I don't think it was overchan, there's a newer one
is that actually happening? screenshots
cope + seethe janoids, no one is and no one will use this site
You can't tell shit quit deluding yourself. A determined person with an agenda wouldn't have any trouble making a stuffed poll look like real people had used it.
Oh, sure, maybe you can go ahead and explain how he would do such a thing since you seem to know so fucking much. :^) I saw no evidence of tampering.
thanks that works really well
I would incorporate a simple random number generator into the time increments for my ballot stuffing script and for each vote attempt pull randomly from a multinomial distribution targeting the results I want the poll to have. It can surely get more complicated than that, but those are some easy options to make it impossible to "spot" a rigging in progress as anon claims to have the ability.
Sooo, how many people are here?
I would guess maybe 100 total, on and off
Sounds right which is honestly not that bad when you consider its so barebones.
And your average retard troll isn't going to think that far ahead.
The only times I have ever seen this shit get rigged it was blatantly obvious with massive spikes favoring one side over the other in matters of minutes.
>>1237>The only times I have ever seen
That you know of. As you may also know, our enemies aren't only retard trolls.
We should probably get some actual discussion going.
The other /leftypol/ has way too many low-effort angry parasites and we're getting nowhere going "fuck this board" and "fuck that board".
This, what's done is done. The future is now.
Welcome to Mongolia!
or just kiss and make up
Pretty sure Comatoast is also affiliated with here.
In my entire time from 8ch migration to now I have never once visited /get/. What was the point of that board? Was it just another /b/?
what's wrong with both sites thriving ?
/GET/ was its own site at one point but merged with bunkerchan to keep up numbers, long before /leftypol/ moved in. They are kinda a general board for socializing, playing games, talking about entertainment stuff, and enthusing about niche political causes. Oh, and getting repeating digits.
Bunkerchan is doomed to fail. The software breaks down whenever larger poster numbers are reached. It literally can't grow beyond a certain point.
Let's talk seriously now, space seems to be a very spoiled boy, from what I read of the whole situation, apparently he treats chan as if it were his “company”, his negligence reported by the mods says it all.
In my opinion, when we start to make banners, flags and other details like these, we should do something new, and not a “bunkerchan 2 with cool mods”.
What I would find interesting would be to add new boards, / t /, / k /, / int /, / x / and etc. you know what I mean? New faze new things.
Let's talk seriously now, space seems to be a very spoiled boy, from what I read of the whole situation, apparently he treats the chan as if it were his “company”, his negligence reported by the mods says it all.
In my opinion, when we start to make banners, flags and other details like these, we should do something new, and not a “bunkerchan 2 with cool mods”.
What I would find interesting would be to add new boards, / t /, / k /, / int /, / x / and etc. you know what I mean? New faze new things.
Let's talk seriously now, space seems to be a very spoiled boy, from what I read of the whole situation, apparently he treats the chan as if it were his “company”, his negligence reported by the mods says it all.
In my opinion, when we start to make banners, flags and other details like these, we should do something new, and not a “bunkerchan 2 with cool mods”.
What I would find interesting would be to add new boards, / t /, / k /, / int /, / x / and etc. you know what I mean? New faze new things.
Kinda wish /GET/chan comes with us but it doesn't look like it…
I don't. I like them, don't get me wrong, but, the idea that we can only have one place is retarded.
because now we're even smaller. I think the real question is why couldnt space just share the burdens?
a split is a bad thing, we need a united front
exactly. they have mod apps up now, they'll probably hire a reactionary mod on accident and everything will go to shit
then leave, nobody cares. old jannies were doing a good job at toeing the line, whereas today i've seen like 4 people banned in a single thread for stupid shit
The Janny team was pretty consistent on idpol, imo. It's not like you couldn't discuss trans people in a civilized way. It was baiting and derailing with muh trans that was consistently removed. I mean… is it really that important of a topic?
This is factually true.
Keep in mind they weren't removed for doing a bad job. That is just the narrative being spun after the fact.
They were booted because they dared to step up to space and his maniacal ego.
You ought to make this site more laissez-faire, srs bsns imageboards are ultra-lame. I also think you should do more big-picture redesign of the boards, not just copy the old site.>>1262>>1265
No they weren't, you get banned immediately if you say anything politically incorrect or disagree with something.
Anyway I can help you out with some site stuff, I know vichan/lainchan config stuff pretty well
These lines go in your vichan/instance-config.php
$config['enable_embedding'] = true;
$config['youtube_js_html'] = '<div class="video-container" data-video="$2">'.
" target="_blank" class="file">'.
'<img style="width:255px;height:190px;" src="//img.youtube.com/vi/$2/0.jpg" class="post-image"/>'.
$config['embedding'] = array();
$config['embedding'] = array(
>The thing I didn't like about /leftypol/ was that it was way too politically correct.
Nah, the jannies were decent when it came to idpol.>>1262>whereas today i've seen like 4 people banned in a single thread for stupid shit.
Nah, the problem with the bunkers current Modteam is that they don't ban enough. For example theThingNoticer is allowed to shit all over the board for hours before a janny even notices him.
Site admin you need to contact me privately ASAP, you did something somewhat dangerous (an amateur mistake). There's a quick fix for it. Add testing9875
to your matrix chatroom.>>1267
So what? theThingNoticer is like the village drunk. You point and laugh at him, you don't ban him unless he just starts spamming "nigger nigger nigger" endlessly or something. Circlejerks / srs bsns discussion boards are boring. The anarchistic tradition of old (pre-scientology) 4chan moderation is best.
Now I'm no jannie lover, but seeing how quickly the old board fell to shit after the mod purge has been a massive fucking eye opener for me. It seems like the board was infested by /pol/ literally one day after the split happened. There's unironic Stonetoss comics everywhere, multiple threads that essentially just consist of people bitching about blacks… it's definitely a shitshow.
>>1248>Oh, and getting repeating digits.
So a Newfag Containment Zone, eh.
>>1268>Circlejerks / srs bsns discussion boards are boring.
What the fuck? We're here to discuss leftist ideas and politics. If you don't like relatively sober discussions on leftism why are you here?
Tell us what it is once it's fixed so others can avoid it in the future.
Actually nevermind it's not that big of a deal. Their web host comes with anti-DDoS for all their plans, but my recommendation is still to have a third-party DDoS so no one can know who your web host is. It's always good to have that obfuscation to make it harder for concern/copyright trolling, and tax agencies, cybersurveillance firms et al. to track you.
>>1269>>1274>making like 5 threads about flunkerchan
can we consolidate all the bitching in one thread? please - dont get me wrong I'm also overjoyed at the downfall but lets keep it to 1 thread id rather talk about leftist shit and not flunkerchan all the time>>1249
and it will never reach those numbers again anyway now that we've all left
Well shit, /pol/'s already heard about the mods getting fired. I have a bad feeling that we're going to get caught in the crossfire when they go to shit up Bunkerchan.
there's already a thread for tech feedback
Truly living up to our fourth international name
>the idea that we can only have one place is retarded.
Why is that?
The place is a massive shit show, rn.
how so? screenshots or desc?
is it just filled with a bunch of /pol/tards and nazbols?
pol tards and nazbols.
The post quality significantly decreased.
why was this reposted outside the flunkerchan general?
The other thread bugged out so I remade it to keep any newcomers aware of what has happened.
So the usual """tankies"""?
the only thing that still confuse me is space_'s attitude. He wants to monetize his own site as he know bunkerchan's visitor count increased to the point unimaginable before fullchan's demise while refusing maintenance work? All the while rubbing the fact that he is the only true 'owner' of bunkerchan whenever mods rant about lack of communication?
is this like market socialist thing or are there more frictions and dramas between him and leftypol mod team? why the hell did old BO chose bunkerchan in the first place?
math is not mathing
take all discussion of bunkerchan to the flunkerchan general thread:https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/30708.html
>>1292>why the hell did old BO chose bunkerchan in the first place?
Well, we didn't really chose, it was bunkerchan or nothing. That's due to a lack of foresight and organization and also to the time lost due to the Rojava purge.
Yeah but you have to remember space was also behind the leftpol/leftypol split
I don't understand it either. I don't think any of the mods did anything to piss space_ off. When he was pushed by caballo on the question of why he wouldn't give up the site, his answer was that he wanted someone neutral in control of leftypol (himself).
Comrade_rat who considered himself a good friend of space_ was the one who was supposed to get root access for a whole year until space_ couldn't postpone it anymore, so he suddenly decided he needed ID to do it. And they had actually met in real life before.>why the hell did old BO chose bunkerchan in the first place?
Desperation. We were fugitives when 8chan shut down and we signed a shitty deal with space (that he wouldn't keep).>>1293
This thread should stay on the front page.
sure, but just sticky it and leave it up. we already have a bunkerchan drama containment thread, no one wants the whole site to be nothing but bitching about bunkerchan. Other than this thread and flunkerchan general i will lock any thread about the website that shall not be named
This, browsing the catalogue was bleak to say the least.
There's at least a couple race baity threads on /leftypol/ right now. Somebody really seems to think "anti idpol" means "rightoid idpol.">>1295
he was the BO of leftpol afaik
I thought that he only became BO later on
oh? who was the original BO
I don't know but I think the guy was originally a /leftypol/ mod.
lolllll>inb4 they get spammed by unlimited pedos and cp posters
the only good thing they ever did was ban all tor exit nodes, now i guess thats out.
It's not. there was one post made by some /pol/yp about muh niggers that was at the top of the catalogue until it got anchored (and eventually locked), and there seems to be a few more stormtards than usual, but nothing major.
This >>30727anon is just exaggerating.
What's hilarious about this is that we are in a kind of Space Race with bunkerchan. Both sites are developing the software because the userbase is pissed, Space_ realized he fucked up (but won't admit it) and now lets someone slave on on his behalf.
>>1309>Mup da doo didda>po mo gub bidda>be dat turn muhfuggen>BIX NOOD cof bin>du ho muhfugga
braincells died during reading these lines
I swear to god I've seen "BIX NOOD" somewhere before, but I can't recall where.
no, nu leftypol should be more laissez-faire, i don't like how politically correct bunkerchan is/was especially with that buzzkill caballo who bans you over everything
Oh, so you're saying competition works?
imagine my shawk
We could also not be monkeys with short attention spans that go "WAAH WHY BOARD NO GO FAST" and pick up a book or two.
I liked the song on the 50mb video he posted when he actually updated the site for the first time in over a year.
It's from an old A Wyatt Mann drawing
>>1316>braindead retard doesn't understand the position he's mindlessly attacking
Imagine my balls resting on your chin
it's socialist competition. it's all in the 5 year plan. jannies will be allocated nuggie rations and the stakhanovites among them will get even get french fries
Can we get all the Space_ message screencaps for archival purposes?
who does flunkerchan even have working on their tech team??? pyongyang?
I wonder for how long will caballo live rent free in your head.
I think they've finally let Rat touch the buttons
Rat is no longer part of the bunkerchan admin or tech team. See >>>/gulag/5296 pic.
yeah rat got purged. the only old janny that was left was d0llars and afaik he doesn't have tech skills
So all moderation has ceased, right? Currently I'm seeing about 10 to 12 bait threads in the catalog, of which about half a /pol/yps. However, mods still scrub criticism of them.
This is exactly what happened to /leftpol/ and this will happen to bunkerchan now. Not even a thread is removed that basically says nothing but "nigger".
Oh, must be Comatoast doing it then
Comatoast is not a tech guy even though he dabbles in it. As far as I know the most technically competent guy in bunkerchan right now is space_, all the others were caught in the purge and are working here now.
Oh, they managed to get .onion working so I assumed they had someone that had a decent idea what's going on.
There's also this post under the announcement:>Given that all connections to a .onion appear to originate from 127.0.0.1, you DO have a method of mitigating crapflooding attacks on the server, right?
Is this something they should be concerned about?
That does sound like some shit space would say.
Oh, so it's just the typical all TOR users having the same IP and the threat of some retard spamming with it. I thought it was alluding to something else.
I think that has more to do with the fact that members of the junta like Pyongyang and Bkeys are literal reactionaries. It's not that reactionaries aren't being stamped out, it's that they're encouraging reactionary posting.
Pyongyang has shit for brains and the board was full of sperging whenever he was around so it wouldn't surprise me if a majority of the autism is coming from him and his friends.
With due compensation, of course. The Soviet Union regularly hosted competitions between workplaces and departments, which is arguably a large part of why they managed to put the first satellite, man and space station in orbit around the earth. A much better approach than the capitalist insanity where the only reward a worker gets for working harder is harder work.
Nooo did someone delete it? I wanted to laugh.
kek, space_ managed to piss off developer of lynxchan zhimself for bad publicity of zhis project.
I am curious however. Why did stephan decide to use mongo instead sql?
Nosql was a fad at the time lynxchan was developed. It didn't help that mysql is pretty hard to admin on a site of moderate size.
Fortunately today everyone recognises the superiority of postgres.
It just got moved to /tech/: https://bunkerchan.xyz/tech/res/7143.html
The fact that the creator of LynxChan had to show up is fucking hilarious though.
The original BO was some guy called "Apo". Several months later he took a break and gave the board to Space_
>>1341>now that I've got my slaves running shit for me, time to bounce
old jannies totally vindicated lel
Apo said he was tired or that he didn't had time but there were no plans to do anything about that, Space just messaged Apo and go the board. At first he announced his new administration under a different name but the fact that he was Space come to light very quickly. In two occasions for his absence the board became claimable, at first he got it back and the second time he lost it.
silicon valley types drool over every new shiny thing. Mongo was such an obvious no go. I was once in a project that cost millions of dollars. Every year it was 3 millions on salaries alone. The cost to run it was around 100k a month, and that was before it was actually released. I left like ~6 months before the project shut down. It lasted around 3 years. Crazy shit. I tried to tell them mongo was a terrible choice, but I was only a junior and was told to shut up.
This is such a huge company, they didn't even feel it.
Cool, a two minutes of hate. Can I join in?
Pyongyang is Hitler!
Pyongyang made rude remarks about my ideas!
Pyongyang is both retarded and an evil genius trying to destroy the community!
Pyongyang have me a titwank and now I feel even more confused about my sexuality!
just think of all the programmers who wasted years of their life programming apps, games, other software projects, etc. that failed and they have nothing to show for it - the startup died or the big company ate the cost and moved on to another project
>>1355>you don't like to see CP in the catalog>You don't like to see theThingNoticer taking over the board>you don't like having two threads on the first page dedicated to chapo
get out, you filthy redditor
You've really knocked it out of the park with this one, what a knee slapper
CP thread has been up for 6 hours on bunkerchan [Link removed for obvious reasons].
Fuck I was just about to point this out myself hahaha
bruh, you really didn't need to archive that.
That shit is disgusting
Yeah archiving it is suspicious.
Pedo archiver. Collecting his cunny scrolls.
Be careful, you don't want to aggravate the pain in your behind.
I'm not the one writing cute little stories kid
No, you're in a group that's angrily cursing an internet shit stirrer for all its problems.
So he's a shit stirrer but the shit stirring is not his fault and is due to unknown causes unrelated to his return. Guy's a wrist slapping spastic, the board was total retardation last time he was a janny and the numerous bans that were undone by him leading to his removal were him being banned for constantly sperging out.
Stalin became inactive shortly after coming to bunkerchan, after which the mods organised democratically instead. We haven't had a BO in a long time.
>>1358>tor posting is up for a single day>instant flood of cp
taking bets on how long it takes space_ to get v& by the british authorities
The man is inconsequential and stupid. Okay. So why are you continuing to curse him?
You're pretty committed to fighting on his behalf over one sentence, so drop the implied questions about peoples motives when nobody (besides he and his many selves) liked him the first time he was turfed out.
He isn't inconsequential, I said he's a stupid schizo. He has Space's ear and will samefag to high heaven whenever he's in a strong position on bunkerchan, and everyone that was around for the Ginjeet drama knows this as a fact.
Probably one of the dumbest schizo retards I've ever met on an imageboard over a decade and he ranks up there with but scores much higher than Sakaiposter. The fact Space is personal friends with him without disowning or accidentallying him shows how much of a retard Space is, not even starting on Space being enough of an idiot to give him roles.
So many fucking newfags, man.
All "flunkerchan" threads were merged into here
Hope it wasn't a mistake
Meanwhile on Bunkerchan:
>Posts in last hour: 71 / Unique recent IPs: 678
how is that bad? thats like the same amount of active ips as was normal before split, maybe even more?
only the pph is lower
is someone here really defending pyongyang?
I think it's fair to say the quality of bunkerchan has reached it's absolute low point. There hasn't been a single good post in the entire day and most threads are shitposting/bait threads ("WHY ARE AMERICANS LIKE THIS" that's basically just a thread about posting mutt memes, a neoliberal schizo rant about Russia, a thread consisting of nothing but the songtext of Rocky Road to Dublin, a Xi = Winnie the Pooh thread, two threads about Chapo Trap House and one about Cum Town, etc.).
It's got much slower as well. Many posters who are new are either Vaushite radlibs or recovering /pol/yps and incels.
>>1376>Many posters who are new are either Vaushite radlibs or recovering /pol/yps and incels.
tbh this is just cope since left imageboards were always the intersection between reddit radlibs and barely reformed polyps. its kindof always been that even though i admit the vaushites are an extra level of retardation on top of that, at least /r/socialism or /r/communism claims to read theory and isn't socdem, their only problem is IDPOL whereas vaushites are idpozzed and also theorylet and socdem to boot
first post here. ngl i was pro staying on bunkerchan because splits are gay. But after reading this it makes sense, site also has to keep freshin. So now the only deciding factor for me is which site looks better and has better quality discussion/culture/atmosphere. All up the the codemonkey arms race, good luck mods I would rather pick cotton than code.
although i know you’re all against namefagging, it would be nice to be able to login somehow and see the replies on your posts or something. maybe can create a throwaway login system.
True, there is no discussion about the fact that those are the two demographics that would come to an imageboard, reddit is not gonna come, Twitter is not gonna come. However, when /leftypol/ peaked shortly before the split on 8chan, there was always a solid stem of a userbase that would be able to deal with both still reactionary recovering /pol/yps as well as with radlibs and that didn't lean either way. Right now this solid core of a userbase has been so thinned out to the point where you have 3-4 recovering /pol/yps, 3-4 Vaushites but only the same amount of principled, communist posters in thread. This is a problem and due to the former two groups being very crass and naturally provocative, they wrest most of the current posting chains out of the hands of the userbase. Moderation is of course completely incompetent and doesn't know what's happening around them.
I'm sorry, if I'm walking into a thread and want to contribute to a topic and write down my thoughts, and I'm seeing that one half of thread is arguing that NATO is actually good and the other half is ranting about Jews and women (I'm embellishing here a bit), then that's not my /leftypol/ anymore but then again - it perfectly encapsulates the edgy memelord character of space_ and his "idea" or lack thereof in terms of running an Imageboard.
Well I will keep posting on both for now, because I don't want our community to atomize as long as this place does not fulfil the standards yet to compete with bunkerchan. But once it grows in quantity and quality I will probably post more and more here, because I am pretty sure - and unhappy about this! - that bunkerchan will go down the path of /leftpol/.
Both are lower, I think users is based on 48hr but I might be wrong, either way it was consistently at 850+ earlier. As for PPH, the other night at the same time it was 120 because I remember talking about it with another anon.
I have not seen URIP on that site lower than 700 for months.
i know .org has no metrics but whats your guess on how many users we have here?
I still post on bunkerchan but I have been as active as I can reporting bugs and posting here, it's not a mark on your character lol
I just try to post here more than there, either site doesn't (and shouldn't) have a monopoly on free leftist discourse
I'm not an admin so I can't say but I did post on leftypol when it was a 300-400 user board on 8chan years back (before its userbase was lowered back down to that lol), and I would say the population is over 100, and could easily be over 300. Not very precise I know but it's not a dozen people talking to each other.
It's hard to gauge, some people post once every 3 days but lurk constantly, others log on ten minutes every day and always post, some people post every hour they're not sleeping.
>For now, we have both agreed to leave a sticky advertising each other’s boards in our respective /leftypol/s.
good luck with this place, you'll need it, since you don't seem to have learned your lessons, again
who doesn't support apng?
i fully support your move and fuck space_, he can go die in a roadside ditch, but you keep negotiating with that guy after all he has done repeatedly over the last years. all of his history should give you a hint about his character, and the same counts for his clique that has not been purged from the beginning like they should have.
that nobody insisted and put any weight into the demand to not only demote but remove pyongyang entirely was already telling of the things to come.
it's an issue i've had with leftypol for the longest time, you are giving these people the benefit of a doubt and handle them as if they acted in good faith, and that has not changed, and never will, i have no illusions about that.
i still genuinely wish you good luck despite all that.
We are well aware of the character of space, though this deal does nothing for space but does something for us, so it works for now while we build. >that nobody insisted and put any weight into the demand to not only demote but remove pyongyang entirely was already telling of the things to come.
What do you mean? That's what we did and that's why he's gone.
Nah, it's fair to remember, pyongyang left voluntarily.
True, but that's because of the pressure mods put on space. And if he hadn't stepped down it would have escalated
not only is he not gone, as he picked up moderating again if you checked the logs, but nobody pressured him to be removed.
i am talking about the removal of his access, but space_ never removed him, he was only demoted.>>1393
space_ did not give a shit about the "pressure" and literally told them to fuck off if they don't like it and then congratulated himself for "resolving" things by refusing to cooperate and do anything after having actively pushed to fuck the board agreements.
this is exactly what i'm talking about, you pat yourself on the back for the most miniscule shoehorned interpretation of "wins" just to "safe face" instead of learning from your mistakes.
i'm glad you responded this way though, despite not having any hopes in you, the reminder of why is welcome.
The fuck are you on about. Pyonyang resigned shortly after we went public with the issue. What mistakes have we not learned from? What was our mistake in that issue?
Pyonyang didn't start modding on bunkerchan again, unfortunately. He had a user account and deleted his own post while logged in.
>>1395>He had a user account and deleted his own post while logged in.
lel right, I'll take the people who coup'd the entire moderation of the site at their word, sure. space_ has always prioritized his clique beyond any of the users of the site and really has no relationship with the people that post on the site beyond wanting to monetize them with ads and albums.
I agree. Just believe me when I say we want nothing to do with space, and concessions made are temporary and (hopefully) pragmatic.
I think /GET/ is generally very confused about what happened with the split and all our issues with space, so please read the OP of the thread you're posting in. just disregard all the diplomatic jargon, I agree we shouldn't be this conciliatory
I'm mostly just angry at all the people that suggest there should be some compromise between space_ and moderation, with the justification that it is more about the community before anything else. What they seem to forget, however, is that "the community" of chans is defined as much by moderation as it is by who post on it, because the moderation exist as a decider as what is allowed into the community to begin with. This is why we've seen such an uptick of reactionaries with space_'s coup, and the suggestion that there should be any compromise given the circumstances honestly baffles me. We can't even reliably just "return to normal" by reinstating the mods and keeping space_ where he is, because he just demonstrated the lengths he will go to in order to remain in power. He's an opportunistic rat, and anyone working with him is ultimately a traitor to the culture cultivated on /leftypol/.
Getting your own site is going to destroy you. There will be no other you can blame. You're all going to turn on each other.
I don't think the compromise was ever about space, or, the mod team, but, ultimately keeping the communities from splitting apart. I think it was more about preserving the communities than allowing them to split apart, but, people are going to start jumping ship when they realize how hopeless it is.
Splitting ultimately was the only way to preserve the community, as the flood of reactionaries on bunkerchan shows. Ultimately anyone concerned with the survival of the community in any meaningful way should be siding with leftypol.org more than anything.
Hiensight is always 20/20 but when things are happening and decisions have to be made what's correct is always not so black and white. If you were trying to keep a community of over 600 people from being destroying that you have put your time and labor into what would you do given that situation? That is something I am sure all of the staff can relate too. The reactionaries could have been purged and things could return to a more normal state. The only issue ever was space himself. The sad fact is while, yes, migrating is possible we are just going to loose members in a migration no matter what. That is the sad truth. We are going to start at around 200 members, again (probably less than that) and there is no guarantee that we will bounce back. There are so many different factors to take into account here and that isn't even touching on issues not related to the community. People are afraid of getting doxxed and swatted space has destroyed friendships hes had with people and all kinds of shit. And for what? to maintain his power over some Albanian knitting forum? It's something that is easier said that done. I know at first glance this stuff can seem trivial, or, meaningless, but, keep in mind our space on leftypol is the final space like this on the entire internet. The actions we take right now can mean the difference between our continued existence, or, not. For people that have been on leftypol for years and years and have interacted with this community and formed relationships and ties and bonds with the anons in it this is not something that can just be hand waved away. Not to mention that for the broader expansion of the left we are the only alternative voice in a sea of liberals polluting the movement with their puritanical politics.
It's just not a cut and dry matter.
So after four hours, several /pol/yp spam threads are still up. I know it's Christmas, but as Noam "do you want your grandchildren to die" Chomsky said: it takes 10 seconds to pull the lever.
Suck my dick.
Choke on it.
Have they completely given up on moderation? There is spam which has been up for hours.
>’I hope you guys engage with the user base’
>no fuck off
And you wonder honestly why you didn’t get the support you obviously hoped you’d get ? Pure literal autism.
Also hilarious you ask me to “formulate a rational argument” when your post comes across as you shouting “no fuck off” as if that is one. My rational argument is that people don’t like to be banned and do like to be able to post what they want.
If you have been outflanked by a "stupid schizo" and a "retard", what does that make you?
>DURR EVERY POSTER IS A JANITOR I R SMART
the right question is, what does it make you to follow said retard and stupid schizo? that he is one is obvious to anyone who has followed his actions since his retarded leadership on leftpol
What you want to do is turn the place into pol.
That's exactly what is happening to bunkerchan currently. Whether you like it or not you need some moderation to curate the site to meet the aforementioned metrics of what the site claims to be. You aren't the userbase you are just a newfag.
who owns the leftybooru and can the screencaps be uploaded there that show space_'s hostility and his plans of monetization?
>you want to turn the place into pol
>you want zero moderation
No, I want slightly looser moderation in certain areas and a proper structure for user engagement so they are actually listened to.
>don’t you see how horrible it is now
But it just isn’t. There are slightly more threads that wouldn’t have passed before. Only very slightly
Kek I am amongst the longest term posters on this board. Also no I’m not claiming to be the whole user base, but a part of it, and there is no process or structure for including the users in decisions, non at all, no matter what they believe. This whole attitude you have is just further indicative of the problem. Instead of actually engaging with what I say you just cry newfag or some shit, which most posters around here know is just plain false. I’ve been saying all this for literally years now.
All this shit is just characteristically unscientific and weak.
We already have plans to have public meetings once per month, and we have a public room to talk to users.
Arguing on bunkerchan feels like arguing with crypto /pol/yps or radlibs those days 80% of the time.
>>1420>who runs the leftybooru
That would be me.>can the screencaps be uploaded there that show space_'s hostility and his plans of monetization?
Sure. Upload them if you have them.
For further questions you can use the leftybooru forumhttps://lefty.booru.org/index.php?page=forum&s=list
when this all happened?
It built up over the year, and blew up about a week ago.
was just worried they would be deleted (again) if the bunker had their hands on it, but i don't have the screencaps myself either
was hoping someone who got them would share, could as well be in a thread though
Considering that this site remains unfinished, and the community largely remains on bunkerchan, it is logical to put talk of a split behind us. We are already in a webring, attempting to try and divide users up between us only hurts the community. leftypol.org remains our backup.
Space has stepped down from managing the site, and given me root access on the server. Changes are being made to improve the site - for example establishing the onion server. I also plan to add coma as a user with server access to help making changes in the future.
Those mods interested in resuming their duties can do so. It doesn't serve anyone by creating antagonisms between the sites except to feed egos. For those concerned about spam, already today we have added three new moderators.
Consider this a christmas truce, or something like that.
The moderators announce that they are fed up with Space_'s incompetence and threaten to split to Leftypol.org.https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/1236158.html
Space_ overreacts and threatens to remove all the moderators if his sticky is removed.https://twitter.com/ericmusicfan/status/1340586031117176835https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/1237437.html
Space_ does this, but downplays the issue by claiming that it was all because the moderators had names.https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/1241445.html
Team Leftypol is forced to move to the "leftypol.org" domain.https://leftypol.org/leftypol/res/30140.html
(YOU ARE HERE.)
With Stalin420 forcibly removed, d0llars becomes the puppet owner of the /leftypol/ on Bunkerchan.https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/1242589.html
Considering I now have root access both on the server and as a user on the site - there must be a hell of a tail wagging that dog.
Also, Stalin was replaced by comraderat several months ago due to inactivity.
If you really want to put egos aside how about we go back to the status quo. Pledge to restore modocracy and be better than space_
Alright, step down and reinstate the modocratic rule of bunkerchan.
Surely you will be willing to do this since >It doesn't serve anyone by creating antagonisms between the sites except to feed egos. >>1429
A lot of labor hours have gone into this place. And the same could be done for bunkerchan, but the reason so many people took up volunteering to work on this place was recognizing that leftypol did not belong to space_. It does not belong to you either, everyone that works on maintaining the site should have a say in how it is run.
That's pure idealism. Who should really run the site is whoever lick's space_'s ass the most. That's the only fair way of running things.
We can discuss democratic measures if and when we are incorporated into a proper non-profit organization. Mods already have power to decide how the site is run with the discretionary power they wield in moderating - and as any ordinary user can attest, this power wasn't always used to make the site better.
The only way to eliminate the issue of ego is to not have a community of mods to begin with, much like was the case on 8chan. There can be no separate, alienated, community of mods distinct from the users, or else we will simply arrive here again. We are nobodies. /leftypol/ doesn't belong to me, or the mods. The community is beyond all of us. The project isn't for us to decide, we are here, voluntarily, to do one thing and one thing only: create a platform for the /leftypol/ community.
Does this offer include the 'unperson' mods like myself?
step down you faggot and space is not gone, delete his account and provide public proof he is not around by making him post his drivers license
>>1429>considering this site remains unfinished>tons of progress made in the few days the sites been up
oh shit boys we been got, the site hasn't been finished in 5 days, i guess unless the tech team pops adderall and codes nonstop for the next 24 hours we have absolutely no choice but to go back to flunkerchan. NOT!>attempting to try and divide users up between us only hurts the community.
translation: we are hurting for users and jannies dawg, please come back we promise we won't do it again.
yeah, i trust you and space_ as far as i can throw you. As long as space_ has ownership of the domain and the web server there's no guarentee he won't simply do this again. he has total power and whatever happens is only at his pleasure. no thanks>Space has stepped down from managing the site
means absolutely nothing because he never "managed" the site to begin with, he still owns the domain and the servers and had the jannies slave away for him. literally nothing has changed.>Changes are being made to improve the site - for example establishing the onion server.
thats the only change that will be made, and the only reason literally anything is being done after a year of inaction is because the split lit a fire under space_'s ass.>It doesn't serve anyone by creating antagonisms between the sites except to feed egos.
translation: oh shit we done fucked up dawg>For those concerned about spam, already today we have added three new moderators.
translation: we are being overrun by polfags and schizos, please help dawg.
wow, i guess those jannies werent so "useless" after all. Space_ said "you can go" and "you are free to go" Well now, we have. and you chose your side, fuck off.>Consider this a christmas truce, or something like that.
you must be pretty desperate to come over here and spout this shit. looks like bunkerchan is dying and im loving it.
go back to your cuckpit and lie down it in you absolute faggot
Considering your dogs are barking up a storm about how leftypol is no threat to your bunker you seem awfully eager to get staff back.
Sure, but I'd like to chat with you first. You can't ban ppl for shit talking furries, for one. Everyone thinks you're biased about this.
I agree with you. Will you in line with this thinking give leftypol back to rat? Who is the actual board owner of leftypol? Will you denounce what space_ did in taking the board from him and giving it to someone for purely egotistical reason? Who is space_ that he should get to decide who is board owner of leftypol? By what right?
If leftypol is beyond all of us, why are you splitting it off from its original place here with rat?
He never banned anyone for talking shit about furries. If you wee around you'd know this. The users assumed it was him because they latch onto whatever bullshit fan fiction they come up. Caballo barely banned anyone at all.
This. Caballo would often come to the mod chat and say he's okay with people telling him he should be put against the wall, and there's no need to ban them.
Anyway, I'm not returning to bunkerchan so long as anyone controls the servers without a vote from the administration.
Seriously if you have access: print the logs and Ctrl+f everyone's mod actions. See who did most bans, deletions etc. I already know who would be first(pask) and caballo wouldn't be even in the top 5
As was said my reputation is highly exaggerated, but thanks for the offer though, I will discuss with the other mods.
kek>>1429>Considering that this site remains unfinished, and the community largely remains on bunkerchan, it is logical to put talk of a split behind us.
t. eternal, unprincipled, opportunist scab
>We are already in a webring
A webring isn't an engagement ring, faggot.
>attempting to try and divide users up
You are mistaking this team with your overlord, Space.
>Space has stepped down from managing the site
You have to be utterly delusional to actually think that Space's ego will not continue to fuck over the site in the future. The evidence so far overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that the faster we leave that ass behind the better for the community on the long run.
>Those mods interested in resuming their duties can do so.
Duty to whom? Duty to what cause?
>Consider this a christmas truce
go commit die, Santa
>>1442>we are hurting for users and jannies dawg, please come back we promise we won't do it again.
I wanted to smooth things over, and I don't like infighting. It hurts the community.
If you don't want to be constructive, you're welcome to stay here. >>1444
Democracy isn't a a procedure, or a set of rules by where decisions are done via vote. Democracy is nothing more or less than rule of the working class. Frankly, the users never cared about the modocracy. It's meaningless to them and did nothing to preserve their power, whether against space or against overmoderation.
Idealist drivel. Imageboards are managed by real people who put real hours and have to take real decisions that can impact a whole site and board culture. What D011ars proposes is to hide
process, to depoliticise
it (like a good liberal) as opposed to us who want to make this transparent and as democratic as possible by assuming
the political nature (instead of hiding it) of managing a LEFTIST
imageboard. It seems, that d011ars thinks he's at the head of an anime imageboard circa 2005.
Whether you "anonymise" mods doesn't change the nature of the material reality of how a moderated anonymous imageboard is administered and the relationship between the users, the moderation and the legal owner of the server.
Remove all access gained by space_ and his clique, including yourself and transfer the site ownership to rat.
Anything else is trying to bullshit, and it's transparent.
maybe krates instead of rat.
give bunkerchan.xyz domain control to krates, at a bare minimum
I don't necessarily mean to anonymize, I mean to shut down communication between mods, to prevent factionalization and personality driven conflicts. Users can see who does what and make their own minds up.
They want to defend their decision, they should defend it against users, not other mods.
>>1439>The only way to eliminate the issue of ego is to not have a community of mods to begin with, much like was the case on 8chan. There can be no separate, alienated, community of mods distinct from the users, or else we will simply arrive here again.
This shit again. It's like you people never learned from /leftpol/. And it's coming from a mod – again. Abolish yourself as a mod, then you can preach shit like that. Until then you are a hypocrite.
Dollars has never done any moderation. He thinks sites work if admins just "do the right thing". No need for communication or organization.
I've been modding /leftypol/ since 2016.
Nah you haven't. You've had a mod account since 2016.
>>1454>I don't like infighting
This isn't infighting anymore. This is fighting proper.
>If you don't want to be constructive, you're welcome to stay here.
You are the one being destructive, tho, by collaborating with Space. What net benefit did Space bring over the years, tell me! What destruction, obstruction, unnecessary drama did he cause? We've measured these two. It is you who's duping yourself, not us.
What do you reckon would have happened last October when the site experienced the worst spam and DDOS of its history (and in witch several mods pulled all nighters and in which I don't recall you helping us with the situation) if there was no communication nor organization between mods and if Rat and Comatoast hadn't had the phone number of space?
I see a bright future for bunkerchan.
…yes I have. >>1466
The community was preserved from the fall of 8chan, it continues even now on bunkerchan. That's all that matters to me.
>>1469>That's all that matters to me.
Jesus fuck. Well, at least we know Bunkerchan will fail soon. This is the dumbest shit I've ever read.
I remember when Caballo came into the leftybritpol stream on UK election night and accused all the regulars of betraying socialism for talking about Lexit and thus tanking Corbyn's chance of becoming PM with their awful anti-EU rhetoric. In reality Labour lost almost entirely in Brexit voting areas and the people behind the position to have another vote on the EU were Blairite wreckers. Users constantly tried to defuse the situation and Caballo would lash out at them as being personally responsible for the collapse of Corbyn's election campaign, after they had endured years of abuse from the entire establishment for backing him.
Caballo is hated by almost every bong on leftypol, he's a piece of shit in my opinion. Even me and my friends that were in that stream (which had hundreds of users) shit talk him in person when leftypol comes up, that's how much of a cunt he was, he constantly lashed out at people trying to diffuse the situation and move on with vitriol and scorn. He's a fucking cunt who blamed the collapse of the UK left on the people working towards its victory tirelessly and thanklessly through constant slander and defamation, on the night they were destroyed, because he loves the neoliberal authority known as the EU so much.
It has very little to do with him being a furry. He only cares about himself. He's everything wrong with the UK, he's a fucking piece of shit.
Fuck you Caballo you fucking cunt. And fuck all your janny friends who back you, you're a piece of shit and I hope you die for the fate people like yourself have doomed the UK to. FUCK YOU!
>>1459>dont have any communication between mods and that will fix everything
This ain't it chief
And the best part: they'll fail and the conclusion they'll draw from it won't be that this retarded strategy led to its logical end result, but that they didn't implement the retarded strategy well enough.
Just idealist things.>>1472>I remember when Caballo came into the leftybritpol stream on UK election night and accused all the regulars of betraying socialism for talking about Lexit and thus tanking Corbyn's chance of becoming PM with their awful anti-EU rhetoric.
I remember this as well. Didn't think it was a vol, tho. At least I hoped it wasn't one.
I want my nazbol flag
You're right, that was me, and I still think leaving the EU was a bad decision, but have I ever modded you guys for saying otherwise? No. It has nothing to do with moderation especially considering that the staff is multi-tendency.
This is not the place to discuss brexit, could you please take that to another thread?
You're right. I apologise. I will say in my defence that that incident was over a year ago now, but I will refrain from using my mod tag in that way in future.
well what the fuck do we do now
no one is here
Read theory until another post shows up?
Yeah we are.
We just keep growing. This isn't the first time this has happened to us. In fact, I would say 1 year of growth garnering 600+ users is pretty fucking good. we've been here before and we have over come.
plenty of people are here dude, its probably 50-50
Definitely not 50/50, but a good chunk are here.
Maybe this is just the inevitable life cycle of site renewal, nothing can last forever, the death of one is the birth of another.
This has all happened before, and it will all happen again…
Fair is fair. But you did in fact side with Blairite wreckers which is retarded.
>>1480>lmao you can't even comment on [leftypol].org
they keep having to lie about this place
>>1480>we already built a new mod team>1 hr later a new moderation application thread is up
dollar is lying his ass off to get you guys back and can't even handle someone stepping down
this is where bunker is headed
an "anonymized" unaccountable clique of space_ goons that meets up in secret and doesn't want their opposition to organize in any way so they can keep pulling shit like this
He's asking for your favorite quote from azquotes.com
I haven't seen a collapse this rapid… ever, maybe.
is anything important missing there, coma?
black was just comma's modname after Space_ yeeted the mods.
I don't know why it was changed tho.
wait, is he UN-RETIRING now?????
no, look at the dates.
I agree with this sentiment, if they could argue in good faith they wouldn't be fascists in the first place. A problem is that if we don't allow them to post as fascists, they will pretend to be something else to be allowed to post. So you end up with "Stalinists" claiming the doctors plot was based conspiracy against jews, or "anarchists" posting Bakunin's and Proudhon's rants against jews.
I think it's possible to talk sense to some of them, though only a small minority, and I think it's easier to do so when you force them to be civil. And every fascist we talk sense to is someone we don't have to kill later down the line.
yeah debating fascists was only ever important because we were on 8ch, now that we are on the wide open net, converting normies and liberals is way more important. its alot easier to drag a liberal normie to socialism than a fascist. the problems are different though
>>1503>examples of fascists being killed in armed conflicts and revolutions>these apply to chans
In any case, bunkerchan era rules worked, imo. Nazis are allowed to post and argue if they don't pretend to be leftists. You won't convince 90% of them of anything, tho.
You can let them post, but not with the expectations of good faith, and treat them accordingly.
What you describe is covered as cloaking reactionary shit and should be moderated far more severely.
One of the things you guys miss is that fascists have an ideologically warped class consciousness, meaning that they don't tie corruption, media manipulation, indebtedness, etc. to systemic causes but personify these via the image of the "Jew". Pic v. much rel. In my experience ex-fascist, ex-nationalist, etc. are rarely converted, but when they do, they become better communists and faster than the liberal converts, for the simple reason that they only had a kind of warped sense of antagonism, while libs tend to have a completely moralist outlook ("can't we just have less inequality?") and rarely can be moved beyond Bernie/Corbyn-tier shit. Also, fascists, nationalists, libertarians, etc. have a liking of militarism which would be absolutely essential for any kind of real revolutionary movement, while libs tend to be pacifists.
In a sense right-extremists when down deeper down the rabbit hole taking a position morally frowned upon by society, unlike the lib who'll remain at the very top layers of "socially/morally acceptable" position.
>>1507>for the simple reason that they only had a kind of warped sense of antagonism
Yeah that's obviously all the difference. When fascists want to murder every degenerate and nigger in their countries, they just don't understand that actually capitalists are exploiting their surplus value.
extracting their surplus value*
There's absolutely no problem with wanting to kill capitalists, a lot of whom are complete "degenerates," some of them black, jews, etc. Whoms't does a typical lib want to kill, btw? Not even Trump, lol, while at the same pushing the narrative that he's a fascist.
You are not addressing the argument made, btw, and I have no intention of replying to you every time you move the goalpost or moralize some more.
>>1510>There's absolutely no problem with wanting to kill capitalists, a lot of whom are complete "degenerates," some of them black, jews, etc.
What the actual fuck does this have to do with anything?
Literally first time I've replied to you, btw, and I wasn't moralizing, I was explaining why your logic is pants-on-head retarded.
>>1511>What the actual fuck does this have to do with anything?
It explained the shift that needs to take place in a former fascist's head. You have to help him transform his irrational anger (aimed at jooz, etc.) to rational anger (aimed at the class that actually causes his misery). I'd add another point here. One reason why fascists hate libs is that they have this enlightened pacifist attitude that scorns anger as such, while the fash have very legitimate reasons to be angry, they just misdirect it at the aforementioned.
>I was explaining why your logic is pants-on-head retarded.
No, you weren't.
Okay, you can maybe kinda not really make the jew=capitalist argument, but I specifically called out their rage at blacks and troons etc. Who are they in this fantasy of the fascist that so easily turns into communism?
>>1513>I specifically called out their rage at blacks and troons etc. Who are they in this fantasy of the fascist that so easily turns into communism?
For them these people are duped by le jooz. Remove the "puppet master" ideologeme with a rational systemic explanation where, for example, advertisements aren't including mixed couples just looking for a larger targeted audience for profit's sake, and their anger directed at people on the same level of the class hierarchy he's on will progressively disappear. You also need to explain to them how porky used racism for centuries to divide the working classes and how liberal idpol achieves the same.
So your "explaining why my logic is retarded" is basically just calling my explanation a fantasy. That's literally not an argument, brah.
>>1514>where, for example, advertisements aren't including mixed couples just looking for a larger targeted audience for profit's sake
*where, for example, advertisements aren't including mixed couples to push the evil jew's race mixing plan, just looking for a larger targeted audience for profit's sake
>>1514>advertisements aren't including mixed couples just looking for a larger targeted audience for profit's sake
Yes, but why are they angry at mixed couple commercials in the first place, is what I'm getting at.
Can be a plethora of reasons. The few fascists I knew were either robbed/beaten up by minorities in elementary school so the ideological package of fascism when they first found out about it spontaneously 'meant sense' for their resentment/fear. The "race mixing" horseshit offers them a kind of group solidarity by telling them that they aren't the only ones being targeted, but their whole "kind."
This isn't rocket science.
For fucks sake yes, but the point is that these things are not things that easily translate to becoming a communist. Their perception of these ills are the exact opposite ours. They continue to see everything in the isolated rather than the systemic.
I can't take computer to my workplace's toiled bro
every regular poster knows it. You are clearly the newfag if you do not. Simple as. >>1423
and do you have any binding plans for actually having the userbase be involved in decisions that you have any compulsion to actually stick to? There was a public room for old bunkerchan as well, you still didn't listen to what people were saying. I will remind you that, if the majority of the userbase did indeed get its way, you mods would currently be in control of bunkerchan, (by a slim majority I will say) Clearly, the posters know best. >>1424
this is just fucking whining its barely changed grow a fucking pair.
just because someone lividly hates something doesn't mean that hate is transferable or even makes someone easier to reason with - more often than not fascists with that hate will pine for red-brown alliance shit but will call us jews when we refuse to murder all gay people or whatever. you still have the central liberal misconception of there being some kind of marketplace of ideas where people can be reasoned into choicing an ideology like it is a product, when in reality politics is a game of personal material and ideological interests which give people a defenitive set of ideologies it is in their interests to chose, and everything beyond that is trying to push them towards a specific choice. most fash are petite-bouj manchildren with too much time on their hands and anxiety because of their lowering position on the capitalist hierarchy, they are the least likely to become communist by all historical measurements.
>>1520>and do you have any binding plans for actually having the userbase be involved in decisions that you have any compulsion to actually stick to?
If you have an idea for how we could do a heckin based democracy for anonymous users that couldn't be tampered with by a few dedicated polyps with a VPN, then I'm all ears. We have talked about the possibility of this internally many times, and IMO the closest thing we could do would be some sort of electoral vetting process.>you still didn't listen to what people were saying
We were listening. Just because we didn't always agree with you does not mean we weren't. We were anonymously part of all the debates concerning how the site should be run, agreeing and disagreeing with each other as well. It's just a lot more complicated than "just listen to le people".
nobody cares about your impotent wannabe oldfagging you absolute newfag cancer
also your "i am the people" bullshit is pathetic and retarded you obnoxious self important cunt, jesus christ, get a grip you are a fucking autist and everyone thinks you need to take your meds you full time spastic screeching little shit
if you had to actually argue your points and didn't hide behind your schizophrenic people behind you that are just echoing voices in your head as an opinion amplifier you could maybe be taken serious if you didn't just talk the most dumbest shit to have ever graced the board
>>1522>If you have an idea for how we could do a heckin based democracy for anonymous users that couldn't be tampered with by a few dedicated polyps with a VPN, then I'm all ears.
as i've said before on this issue, no I don't think you can have a heckin democacerino for the reasons you have stated. However, you could adopt a mass line strategy of sorts. By the way as I've said several times, in my opinion things were getting better with you guys, I'm sure you've noticed I complain a lot less. I do believe that you do listen, just there is no process in place for you to really hear and so much bad faith stuff flies around its difficult to know what you can trust. Honestly, and I'm not just saying this cos its one of my positions, but it would be a lot easier to have some kind of posters union you guys could then be in constant contact with, if we were allowed our own off board communications etc. If you want more thoughts in this area I can give them, but basically, you need to set up, or allow the posters to set up themselves, institutions which are designed to represent the interests of the posters, whom you can then be in contact with. These institutions, provided you guys trust the leaders, and you can see all our post history so it should be easy to tell good or bad faith, can then be your reference point. For example, I think most of you mods know by now I'm not trying to wreck the board I want to make it better. Whether of not we agree on how to do that is immaterial, you can clearly see I am at the very least posting in good faith. You can use your position as mods to validate this claim, and therefore somebody in my position could run a riot room where user interests are discussed and relayed, with a leadership trusted by both mods and users that could root out bad faith actions themselves without the political implications of mods being able to get rid of union members. I'm not suggesting I become this person, merely an example, I imagine so kind of election from the userbase of mod validated i.e. post history verified and nothing more, pool of candidates would suffice for this. Although initially probably there should not really be an election for this, as we cannot instantly create elections which cannot be subverted, I have more ideas in this area also if you would like to listen.
> We were anonymously part of all the debates concerning how the site should be run, agreeing and disagreeing with each other as well.
this I do not like. Mods should stay out, even though you are users, you are also mods, and the fact we can't see who is a mod and who isn't creates a false consensus in favour of mods
this is literally just a rant my guy, it is clear the other mod is actually not a fucking retard, and is having a good faith conversation, you on the other hand are just doing word vomit.
>Sage and his haters are turning the thread into a shitflinging contest about wheather or not Sage is cancerous.
This is the mod feedback thread all over again.
seriously there is not one constructive phrase in here, and if you are a mod, the sane mods should question seriously your position on the team, saying stuff like this at this time. Its quite clearly just a personal attack because you are butthurt about something I have said at some point. Wrecker shit and also just pathetic
it is funny how literally any discussion sage ever has about any mechanisms of the site, proposed or existing, somehow turns into him being some kind of oracle of the people. hell even with forced anonymization on I can still tell its sage lmao.
it is really not my fault if people can't keep their personal fee fees about me in their pants I'm hardly saying anything wildly unreasonable
i'm making constructive suggestions you are literally just saying "i think sage is retarded", the whole "sage" aspect of it is brought up only by you, I'm just talking about the board
nobody forces you to namefag my man
also tbh your suggestions tend to be retarded because they are made without consideration of how such things are organized, who gets included, ect. smaller communities like /GET/ have and literally just did exercise a board-wide democratic decision in leaving bunkerchan permanently after continued consultation and debate between them for a solid week but that was done through mechanisms of people directly knowing each other because it was small and also IP checking to make sure people weren't trying to inflate a position. /leftypol/ is much larger and can't reliably do something like that without an external mechanism like matrix (which they went with) because it allows for a way to vet posters to know who they are and consult their opinion.
in addition, your ideas tend to be at best vague (calling things "institutions" without specifying their construction or mechanisms of internal debate is peak meme) and generally lack real popular support and only really get advocated by you specifically, and because you constantly fucking shill these ideas and namefag people generally come to dislike you, especially when you double and triple down on some sort of legitimacy you are supposed to have because you are an oldfag or whatever. for your reverence of democracy, you seem to have little regard for it when it sides against your ideas. and when it does turn against you, you accuse everyone of being a janny, as you've done with me and others not only here but also on bunkerchan. I can honestly see something thinking you are schitzo because you honestly act like it man.
Nobody forces you to care about namefagging, you are just mega autistic and can't see text on a screen without flipping out.
you've literally just answered your own question. its a small board nobody cares about with little subversion.
>but that was done through mechanisms of people directly knowing each other because it was small and als
which is literally what I've just suggested we create in this post >>1525
>/leftypol/ is much larger and can't reliably do something like that without an external mechanism like matrix
again, literally just said that we should use matrix. Are you actually retarded or are you just pretending not to understand what I am saying?
>your ideas tend to be at best vague
i've described in some detail in the above post, and also offered more explanation if said mod is interested.
>generally lack real popular support
based on your opinion and your opinion alone kek and you are actually so autismo you can't see that this is just "he said" "she said" which I could engage in but I'm not going to. Blind rage. All it is. I could just as easily say "many posters agree with me" which they do, but we are both basing it on nothing. Only i'm not arrogant enough to assume my nothing means anything, so I don't bring it up like you do.
You also probably in other threads have said shit like "oh so if everybody wants it that makes it good huh well what if everybody wanted to rape somebody huh what about that" kinda bullshit.
probably you are salty emmanuel of the email given how you post, its becoming increasingly clear.
>and because you constantly fucking shill these ideas
you mean I offer my opinion. What exactly am I shilling? Is somebody paying me? No, so just offering my opinions.
>sort of legitimacy you are supposed to have because you are an oldfag or whatever.
no you just accused me of being a newfag which I am definitely not. Honestly you argue like a child. You're not here for a conversation, you are just here because you feel slighted and you want to "win". Pathetic.
>or your reverence of democracy, you seem to have little regard for it when it sides against your ideas.
give one single example
> you accuse everyone of being a janny,
its difficult to tell and you are simping very hard for board users not having an input into the board, so if you are not a janny, this is extremely cucked. If you are a janny, extremely sinister and clear anti democratic practice against the wishes of the posters.
> I can honestly see something thinking you are schitzo because you honestly act like it man.
blah blah blah blah ad hominem u r gay blah blah blah
>>1533>you've literally just answered your own question. its a small board nobody cares about with little subversion.
You missed the point that I was illustrating: communities can come to different democratic solutions based on their size and participation, /GET/ has just managed to take on what most people envision as the "best" democratic position for board governing because of their tight-knit community.
As for "little subversion", there was actually attempts to interfere with /GET/'s internal processes by space_'s agents including another namefag called NKvD and some others, but since recognition of other posters was easy for them, they could easily out them as outsiders trying to interfere. This isn't necessarily hard-locked by size, it more comes down to proportional levels of participation as the board grows so people's positions are known, or failing that coalitions of political ideas are formed as a way to generally represent shared ideas between numerous people in larger communities. The way /GET/ generally does things is not necessarily out of the question for /leftypol/, we just need greater user engagement in a political system which has platforms which can be used to platform ideas of how the site should advance and how we should moderate and the like. >Are you actually retarded or are you just pretending not to understand what I am saying?
Matrix wasn't a suggestion, it was an illustration of one way to do it, and indeed as I said one way that we've already tried to do it. The problem is, there isn't much engagement or organization on it, which makes current implementation lacking. This is why trying to canvas opinions on the main board is a good idea in abstract: growing interest in how the site is managed in a place where everyone already is can be used to get people elsewhere, like the currently standing Matrix.>i've described in some detail in the above post,
Lord help us if that is what you consider detailed.>based on your opinion and your opinion alone kek
No, at least generally I've seen more people angered or at least disliking of your presence and long-winded posts which somehow manage to have little content or perspective than just myself. Hell, the reason we had to move the moderation thread to /gulag/ in the past was at least partially because of you constantly filling it with stuff nobody cared about or actively disagreed with and ending up flooding the thread, twice in a row.>you mean I offer my opinion
You offer your opinion and pretend it is fact or how things must be when most of us either don't care because we aren't engaged in how the site is currently run as long as it does run or we tend to disagree with your opinions or find them wholly lacking.>no you just accused me of being a newfag which I am definitely not
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a single person. I don't care how new or old you are, you still suffer from all that I've outlined thus far. >give one single example
You constantly accuse people of being jannies or literally just a single poster if they disagree with your posts or ideas, since like our first days of being in bunkerchan. Likewise when there has been consensus to crack down on reactionaries further you've called people all manner of counter-revolutionaries and wreckers and cloaked your own arguments in some vague revolutionary language, equating posters to the proletariat and organizations of or by them unions and the like. Basically trying to use ideology as a cudgel to dismiss criticisms or parallel ideas which contradict yours. >its difficult to tell and you are simping very hard for board users not having an input into the board
The jannies ITT are literally promoting ideas for user engagement with the board lmao, we generally agree with their ideas because of the limitations of the conditions of the board as-is and find your ideas at best flowery and idealistic and at worse very unaware of the actual levels of investment of the userbase in the actualization of the site's power and unaware of how hamstrung a lot of posters are by orthodoxy.
This is a serious thread. Stop talking about or with the sagefag.
>>1534>communities can come to different democratic solutions based on their size and participation
no thats exactly what I said. /get/ and /leftypol/ are completely different in terms of conditions. And little subversion like it isn't flooded with polyps posting "you will never be a woman" etc
>we just need greater user engagement in a political system which has platforms which can be used to platform ideas of how the site should advance and how we should moderate and the like.
lmao nigga you accussed me of being vague for using the words institutions and you've just replaced it with the word "platforms". I'm not a petty cunt like you though so i'm not gonna be like "muh details" i can see what you are saying here, and I agree, we should have highly organised platforms and institutions for the userbase to engage with the mods, which can be vetted etc.
>Matrix wasn't a suggestion, it was an illustration of one way to do it,
just gonna leave that to stand all by itself. Peoples front of Judea lmao dude. Its almost like, we actually agree on this shit, you are must personally triggered by me. Feels good tbh even if it is fucking annoying. Not one penny of rent to live in your head in a penthouse apartment. >Lord help us if that is what you consider detailed.
it is as detailed if not far more detailed than anything you have ever suggested, also I have often made detailed posts about how I feel about the board. Indeed my patented floating gulag system ended up being used during the great Chin raid, our boards greatest moment of 2020 possibly its whole existence. >Hell, the reason we had to move the moderation thread to /gulag/ in the past was at least partially because of you constantly filling it with stuff nobody cared about or actively disagreed with and ending up flooding the thread, twice in a row.
ahahahaha. You mean, when the mod team decided they wanted to stifle discussion about how the board was ran, because everyone was complaining. You see these kind of things are why everyone didn't jump to the mods defence instantly. >hen most of us either don't care because we aren't engaged in how the site is currently run as long as it does run or we tend to disagree with your opinions or find them wholly lacking.
"most of us" "we" "we" "we" you better not be the same cunt saying I was trying to be the oracle of the people lmao. I'm giving my opinions, you are acting as if yours are the opinion of the whole board. >Not everyone who disagrees with you is a single person.
im aware but your particular posts are distinctively shit.
> I don't care how new or old you are
clearly you do. >You constantly accuse people of being jannies or literally just a single poster if they disagree with your posts or ideas,
no i accuse you because its very easy to tell when I am speaking to you. >Likewise when there has been consensus to crack down on reactionaries
again pretending your own personal opinions are consensus.
> we generally agree with their ideas
yet again, pretending you speak for the whole board.
I know exactly who you are emmanuel whats next you gonna try doxx me or some shit?
are you the obnoxious anarchist poster? why does every post you write so extremely grating?
Because posters do not have adequate control of the board. You can tell because basically no posters wanted the split
Lol no. Go and read the “streamlining of the gulag system” post. That’s me
>>1537>goddamn it why do we keep splitting
Don't think to much about it we're just upholding ancient leftist traditions.
I don't like sages politics really, maotist he is. But about the board he is generally correct. Also that other poster is clearly the one who tried to doxx him with that email. He posts in the same style. Like very angry and incoherent
hey, this time it wasn't anyone's fault but space_ because he was being an asscrack.
Yeah except this time the split was over space. Most splits historically happen because of ideological disagreements. Not because some one is being a power tripping douche bag.
>>1518>For fucks sake yes, but the point is that these things are not things that easily translate to becoming a communist.
Is it easier with libs, enlightened centrist, pacifists, etc.? And I don't mean converting them to becoming radlibs, socdems, etc. but proper commies.>>1521>just because someone lividly hates something doesn't mean that hate is transferable or even makes someone easier to reason with
I didn't imply this was the case, tho.
>more often than not fascists with that hate will pine for red-brown alliance shit
Suboptimal, but it's still an advance from streetfighting charade like proud boys vs. anteefa.
>will call us jews when we refuse to murder all gay people or whatever
I didn't interact with many "red-brown alliance" fascists, there's not that many around, but I haven't seen this argued by them. What I've met two specimen of were unironic "red-brown alliance" communists whose position was basically penalizing (not eradicating) homosexuality. So even the worst kind of commies are not willing to go with the fash plan. But we are talking about a hypothetical here - what would happen in a rev. situation where people start getting killed, which is to say long removed from the original topic: under what conditions (if any) should fascists be allowed to post here. This is one of the ways this discussion gets derailed, focusing on what they "want," instead of focusing on the now and the actual political power they hold.
>you still have the central liberal misconception of there being some kind of marketplace of ideas
No, I don't.
>people can be reasoned [with]
This I do believe, but this isn't the same as your previous point. This black dude personally deradicalized something like a 100 KKK members and shut down several branches of them by reasoning with them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj-4Q416C8w
To say that it's impossible is just counter-factual.
>politics is a game of personal material and ideological interests which give people a defenitive set of ideologies
I agree, it ultimately boils down to this, but your multimillionaire racists like Ford, p-bourg racists like alt-right influencers, etc. have completely different class interests than your prole fascists. That's why the latter group still can be reasoned with. They are duped, they hold a position that goes against their objective class interests.
>most fash are petite-bouj
Not really. The most visible one
are, the influencers are, but the wast majority are either lumpen-proles or proles.
>they are the least likely to become communist by all historical measurements
Lumpen proles and p-bourgs, definitely. The former became brown shirts in Germany, the latter party apparatchik for the nazis. Prole fash? Nope. Fascists don't give a shit about the proles, 3 years into Hitler's rule it was obvious to all workers, among them fascists, that they were fucked over.
>>1545>"red-brown alliance" communists whose position was basically penalizing (not eradicating) homosexuality
so, not communists>This black dude personally deradicalized something like a 100 KKK members and shut down several branches of them by reasoning with them
He didn't reason with him, he made emotional appeals to them because of their friendship to de-radicalize them. That isn't reason, that is still pathos. >but the wast majority are either lumpen-proles or proles.
Never had that substantiated but have always had them being middle-class substantiated
t. personally knew a number of /pol/acks
>>1546>so, not communists
I'm not here for definitions. Radlibs aren't communist proper either, and I'm pretty sure that fascists proper think the same about "red-brown alliance" fascists, and that radlibs/centrists think everyone else is "totalitarian".
>He didn't reason with him, he made emotional appeals to them
It was a mixture of both. If by reasoning you mean "spread epic theory" he didn't reason, but that's not the level these KKK people are on, now are they? Questions like "are all white people good?" followed by the obvious answer and then the follow up question "then why do you think all black people would be good?" is
reasoning with these people.
>Never had that substantiated
Demographics. 90% of the population are wage earners, 9% are managerial stratum and p-bourg (etc.), 1% porky proper. Even if you argue that p-bourgs appear at a higher % among fascists (which is a reasonable claim), there's absolutely no way the wast majority of them aren't proles or lumpen proles, because then they'd lack a mass basis.
>>1547>If by reasoning you mean "spread epic theory" he didn't reason, but that's not the level these KKK people are on, now are they?
If "maybe don't lynch people" constitutes "epic theory" then yes, that is what I meant by reasoning with them. They are predisposed towards violence directed at easily manageable targets, they always tend to punch downwards and thus break apart any basis for proletarian unity. It's an inherent cowardice and deference for authority which drives them, and even outside of being pathological reactionaries it tends to color their worldview, you see them apply that same rationale even after they stop being reactionaries because while they were incentivized by friendship to stop being reactionaries they still carry that same internal logic. You don't have the same issue with your average liberal or normy, thus they can more easily be brought onto a communist cause.>Demographics
If you think that many proles have time to shitpost on the internet all day then you are mistaken, I believe. Petite-bouj inherently have more time for frivolous pursuits like spending all day on the internet, so they inherently make up a good deal of actual users of it, at least on the level of output of comments and posts.
>>1543>>1544>Wanting to protect yourself from a ban of untrustworthy power-hungry back-stabbers is being a "power-tripping asscrack"
>>1548>If "maybe don't lynch people" constitutes "epic theory" then yes
You are deliberately not addressing my point here.
>They are predisposed towards violence directed at easily manageable targets, they always tend to punch downwards and thus break apart any basis for proletarian unity. It's an inherent cowardice and deference for authority which drives them, and even outside of being pathological reactionaries it tends to color their worldview
Where did I disagree with this characterization? You are preaching to the choir here, but this is a sociological and psychological characterization that mostly hold true. Mostly. And it is in a way and to a point avoiding class analysis.
>you see them apply that same rationale even after they stop being reactionaries because while they were incentivized by friendship to stop being reactionaries they still carry that same internal logic.
First point: I didn't concede to your point about that black dude merely being "friendly towards them". I reasserted my point that he did, in fact, use basic logic on them, i.e. rationality. You conveniently sidestep my point again, and repeat your claim. Boring…
Second: if you watch this black dude's talks he pretty convincingly emphasizes that these people were changed for life. They didn't regress or kept having these psychological/ideological structures. It's a process, like with everything. Your claim that somehow fascists are a special kind of animal literally incapable of change reeks of pure ideology from miles away, as if your kneejerk response to them claiming that >>we<< are üntermensch is to just say "no, >>u.<<" These are funny memes, but don't hold up in reality, and result in idiotic antifa v. proudboy idiocies.
>You don't have the same issue with your average liberal or normy
Again, you intentionally dismiss my previous points. It is literally the same with libs. They might not be authoritarians, but they have their typical pathologies as well.
>they can more easily be brought onto a communist cause.
Big if true. (May I remind you about my previous point: bernie-fag =/= communist.)
>If you think that many proles have time to shitpost on the internet all day
Loaded proposition. Proles definitely post. You can see a lot of wagie cage, fuck my job, etc. type posts on /biz/ and /pol/ too. As for "all day," well, a lot of desk jobs have the "luxury". You are trying to say here that only neets can become fascists or chan posters.
>they inherently make up a good deal of actual users of it
Okay, so if 50% of fascist posters are neet and p-bourg, and the other 50% are proles and lumpen-proles, then what makes you focus on the former group while denying the latter's existence? Or is it 60-40%? 70-30%? 80-20%? I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to give up any demographic category that contains proles, and your arguments so far just amount to calling them "icky" and mirroring their dehumanization back at them.
In other words memes fried your brain. The black dude btw mentiones again and again that he never seen such a hard working group as the regular KKK member. Makes you think, dunnit, when a person who met like a thousand KKK-fags thinks that they are hard workers?
>You are deliberately not addressing my point here.
What, that logic could not avail and that emotional appeal had to be used for there to be any way to use logic to begin with? Are we supposed to chit-chat every odd fascist, many of whom directly disagree with our very existence and might well literally kill us for it, just so we might have an off-chance of de-radicalizing them? That sounds like an exceptionally retarded thing to ask of people to follow this man's tactics. And mind, this man has gone on to say that people shouldn't try to do what he does because it is dangerous to them.
>First point: I didn't concede to your point about that black dude merely being "friendly towards them". I reasserted my point that he did, in fact, use basic logic on them, i.e. rationality.
I am glad you have your sample size of all one dude deradicalizing fascists but believing this is some standard pattern we should use as a basis is deliberately retarded. Likewise - emotional appeals (which, by the person you use as an example, must be used!) cannot be as easily done through the internet as they can irl because people can't just log off irl like they can online. If a fascist somehow gets emotionally pressed here they can just run off to /pol/ to get affirmament for how based it is to hate niggers.
>Second: if you watch this black dude's talks he pretty convincingly emphasizes that these people were changed for life. They didn't regress or kept having these psychological/ideological structures.
Changed for life doesn't mean they have all dropped their pathological impulses, they are things that can take years to undo. They are as deep-seated as things like PTSD because they are as much of a coping mechanism for a shitty life caused by a lack of meaning as they are just a useful tool for porky. Maybe some got over it easier than others, but it is no surefire thing that some chit-chat will make it go away. Especially online, where, again, people can just log off if their existing biases are being challenged.
Funny, you are the same way to me. I've heard liberals itterate this argument often to how we shouldn't crack down on reactionary "thought" and encourage free peach and the like, but liberals are always inconsiderate to the personal danger reactionaries pose when it comes to these things.
>It is literally the same with libs.
Libs have their own pathology but it is not nearly as disastrously bad and fundamentally antithetical to leftism. Indeed, liberals can be somewhat predisposed towards leftist ideas, like I was as a lib.
>Big if true. (May I remind you about my previous point: bernie-fag =/= communist.)
Many of us were once liberals, not just reactionaries. In fact I would say a majority of us were once just liberals, the minority seem to be ex-fash.
>You can see a lot of wagie cage, fuck my job, etc. type posts on /biz/ and /pol/ too
You don't think that… someone would lie on the internet, would you?
>I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to give up any demographic category that contains proles
If that is your line then fine, but know it contradicts the ideas of Marx, Engles, Lenin, and most socialist thinkers. Don't parrot this point as "communist" because most communist thought thinks this is retarded.
>your arguments so far just amount to calling them "icky" and mirroring their dehumanization back at them.
It isn't about their humanity. They very well may be nice people outside of their reactionary ideology and I'd still suppress them for their reactionary positions. It is a game of power, of class, and which class will dominate comes down to the ideological and political positions of the vanguard of the proletariat.
>In other words memes fried your brain.
Yes, the person saying we should protect other people against fascist discrimination is the one with the fried brain here.
>Makes you think, dunnit, when a person who met like a thousand KKK-fags thinks that they are hard workers
I can't say that a random platitude by some guy really makes me think, no. Because its not about how good of a person they are or aren't.
oops, sorry about that lmao. the site sometimes double-posts and gives a weird error.
Anyone with ideas about board management or related: Please make a thread on >>>/meta/
about it. That's the only way to be sure it won't get lost in the shuffle. Alternatively use the welcome thread if its something simple like a board name suggestion.
post screenshot of error to the tech thread, plz
Could you make a new thread about this on /leftypol/ or /meta/? I think here is not the best place to have that conversation as it's not entirely related to the topic at hand.
No, that's just it: I'm a midwit theorylet, but even I can see that the /leftypol/ gang had no material leverage vis-a-vis Space_ at all. The only thing that could be hurt was his inflated ego.
May I remind you that I never disputed that the black dude used emotional appeals with the fash he converted? Unlike you I never tried to carve up any kind of discourse into a rigid either/or: "rationality OR appeals to emotions." Any rhetorician worth his salt would tell you that the two are inseparable. It is you who keeps upholding nonsense, as if any human interaction weren't a mixture of these two.
But again, you keep shifting the point to "what would happen ifs". Yeah, some of those faggots want to kill us IRL. But you yourself know that the majority of them are all talk no game shits-in-the-pants. You yourself know that they literally can't kill you online. So your appeals to "what would happen IRL under very special circumstances" are completely moot. The topic is still:>>1545>under what conditions (if any) should fascists be allowed to post here.
We've already had self-proclaimed ex-fascists explain to us how leftypol was able to convert them in the past. Nobody actually met these dudes from our community IRL and hugged them, befriended them. IMO your whole perspective is deeply anti-rationalistic, worse, in the name of rationality, since it amounts to depriving them even from the possibility to face rational counter-arguments. So, let me guess, your whole shtick is "we should beat them up on the streets." Good luck with that and God speed to you, Sisyphus, but you beating them up won't stop systemic causes creating them, now will it? This is still a chan and not your IRL antifa club and the topic is still chan policy.
>I am glad you have your sample size of all one dude deradicalizing fascists but believing this is some standard pattern
I'd take a dude who met a thousand KKK members and deradicalized like a hundred of them, wrote a book about it, and keeps proving his method over any rando anti-fa idiot any time. Fuck, I'd take a dude who deradicalized 5 fascists over any anti-fa idiot football hooligan, not to mention some rando loudmouth who instead of arguing in good faith tries to prove here that he has the bigger deek.
>emotional appeals […] cannot be as easily done through the internet
Did I deny this? Both rational and emotional must be addressed for a change to happen. I think we can provide the rational here, and life can provide the emotional there for them. Alternatively, they can notice receiving the same responses here, then offline. Repetition matters.
>how we shouldn't crack down on reactionary "thought"
No, it is you who thinks we shouldn't address reactionary thought. You banning them makes them feel they were right all along. It is I who argues for challenging reactionary thought. From my perspective you are the coward, the one who wishes to live in a confortable social bubble not reflecting society's actual composition.
>Libs have their own pathology but it is not nearly as disastrously bad and fundamentally antithetical to leftism.
I disagree. May I remind you that when the crisis comes a good chunk of libs will side with the reaction just to save private property and muh markets?
>a majority of us were once just liberals, the minority seem to be ex-fash.
Okay, so you admit that it is possible to transition from fash to commie. Great. End of discussion. Chan policy should reflect this fact both of us agree to.jesus fucking christ
I made a thread for this but quickly>the two are inseparable
emotions are a part of belief systems but that is not the same as emotional appeals dipshit>We've already had self-proclaimed ex-fascists explain to us… ect ect
Yes, nobody denies that /leftypol/ did, the question is it worth it for the trouble that it causes through fash posting and losses of other, possibly more useful people posting? Accepting fash even slightly, necessarily means driving other people away, especially proles who are vulnerable to fash oppression.>You banning them makes them feel they were right all along
They will always find a way to feel right because the rationality of fascists exists only to serve their pathos.>…a good chunk of libs will side with the reaction just to save private property and muh markets?
Of course because they do not believe in/understand systemic problems and abuses of power because of their ideology, but that doesn't mean they are as pathologically dangerous as fascists, just easily manipulable by the state.>jesus fucking christ
the sentiment is mutual
>>1561>So your appeals to "what would happen IRL under very special circumstances" are completely moot.
Self-criticism: yes, I understand that for some of us (gayfags, minorities, women etc.) these aren't that typically so "special circumstances," since they are more likely to be targeted by them.
Wasn't the whole "MUH id" thing debunked? A: Why the fuck would space trust a rando like d0llars over rat pr coma if it was such a big deal and B; wasn't there a way to give them the ability to DO root things on the database with out giving them root access?
I think space was more threatened by the possibility that coma and rat would be more popular than he was.
>>1459>shut down communication between mods
What the fuck am I reading?
d0llars we should deff try and decemtralize leftypol as much as possible but a leftist movment is going to need organization. At the risk of sounding larpy: With out the party there can be no revolution.
don't worry, he only means for anyone who isn't on board with letting unironic nazbols shit up the board
as long as you are a friend of space_ he wants you to communicate
it's just a matter of personal advantage for him, not an actual moderation principle
>>1554>Wanting to protect yourself from a ban of untrustworthy power-hungry back-stabbers is being a "power-tripping asscrack"
you're retarded. Basic backups/tiered security remove all these risk, and you dont even need those if you have physical access to it/can prove you paid for it. It just a shitty excuse to tech illiterate ppl
Also, fuck you, man. No one thinks they are special but you and space. So don't try and flip this around, lmao. Everyone involved in this is doing what they think is right for the community EXCEPT SPACE_ even if he tries to save face and say otherwise. It's about control and feeling important for him not the community.
two sites are more decentralized than one, and yet, he is against that. gheckmate
>>1568>"The only threats from rogue users are deleting the website or changing the admin password">Calling other people retarded
Go and play with BeEF until your testicles drop. In a couple of years when that happens, you can have a proper conversation with me about the security threat access to live systems represents.
I point you back to the remarks about untrustworthy backstabbers.
So, you're talking about space right? He only lied directly to coma who he's known for years with out taking into consideration the way coma feels at all. That's not camaraderie. Not even close.
Listen, mods, reaaaaaaaaally want to hammer the point home how funny it is to me you guys are calling space a power tripper who hates his opposition organising. I have had multiple threads about organising the user base deleted. You all went fucking ham samefagging and deleting threads advocating for discord and such. Every time I tried to basically get the user base together it was actively hindered by the mods. Certain opinions have been wiped from bunkerchan you can’t post them. Often when I was arguing with mods you would stuff like “silence I am done with this conversation” and then I’d get banned. I got permabanned on numerous occasions for really petty shit- now it has to be said other mods have then unbanned me, but I have been banned several times for basically having a political disagreement with a mod. I am aware that some of you are decent, but it’s like cops I’m afraid, a good cop frags his homies and I didn’t see that, I saw much more police union type stuff, closing ranks, and an active shutting down of descent against you, not least in the creation of the gulag so most posters would never see a complaint against th mods, only dedicated posters who actively sought out complaints against the mods.
I’m not saying this to insult you, I’m saying look how it feels, and I beseech you to consider deeply the things I am saying
Everyone saw what was being planned. If it actually was about building a better site, there was nothing stopping you from simply moving to a new host without engaging in vandalism.
everyone saw why it was being planned, and a migration away from a site held hostage by an incooperative asshole that breaks agreements constantly is leftypols business alone, so what are you talking about you colossal cumgargling faggot?
>>1577>why wont you let me be a discord shill
nobody wants in on your grooming scheme, faggot
You're going to be ignored, Sage. The things you are complaining about are simply the manifestation of an old problem in political groups: they attract people who simply want power over others and are the last people who should be granted it.
>>1577>i have feelings
nobody cares, fag
At what point will you realize that every post completely gives away that you are really just so self absorbed and up your own ass that everyone can see you're just a dramafag who wants attention on your own personal retarded takes and how you want things to run while pretending it's for the sake of everyone else, as if everyone just has to default support you?
Fuck off retard.
It’s just hilarious how god damn hypocritical it is. You guys cut off the base, and now there is no base to protect you from the person with power over you. It’s a deep irony that is clearly fucking lost on you. If the posters liked you guys, they would have defended you more, maybe even migrated. But nah, it’s just because they are all stupid right? It’s not that you’re out of touch.. it’s the kids who are wrong. Every time
Sage at what point are you going to realise that not everyone here is a jannie.Also if a jannie post in a meta thread he should nemefag, I'm saying this just in case if a jannie posts in this thread without doing it
If you’re not a jannie you’re a cuck, frankly, and it is immaterial to the point. Fact is there are jannies here complaining about space power tripping, I’m willing to bet some who have previously power tripped. If the user base had been afforded more power, perhaps they would not be in the situation they are in.
>>1577>I have had multiple threads about organising the user base deleted.
Wait we did?>deleting threads advocating for discord
Oh. Fuck you. Make a room on Matrix. We're just not going to encourage the use of discord for the obvious reason that it's spyware, but also because /pol/ has been creating so many honeypots there, and we're not going to check out your discord links trying to figure out if it's a legitimate channel or not.>but I have been banned several times for basically having a political disagreement with a mod
This is obviously unacceptable, and I do agree that mod autonomy has been too high, which has mostly been due to lack of proper communication between mods. I personally hope this will be rectified with the addition of proper "party" meetings where we discuss tactics and iron out an approach that leaves little room for interpretation by our moderators.
I wish we had proper board software so I could actually see the ammount of posters
What if, and I know this is a radical idea, but what if we stopped entirely replying to fucking tripfags?
Imagine the result.
>It’s just hilarious how god damn hypocritical it is. You guys cut off the base, and now there is no base to protect you from the person with power over you.
At which point did we cut off the base? At which point did we actually have a connection to the base that the current moderators then severed? The fact is that since we became a democratic organization (with the departure of Stalin420) we have been going in the direction of more user-mod interaction, though it may not have been as rapid as you'd want it.
the only thing his fag wants is declare himself "the people" and force his opinion on the mod team, if they don't do what this faggot says "the people are being ignored"
fag should catch a ban already
well we have freeze peach on this website, afaik not a single person has been banned (yet).
>>1578>there was nothing stopping you from simply moving to a new host without engaging in vandalism.
Absolute nonsense. It was the only feasible way of migrating the community without splintering it.
This is a retarded non sequtor. The community is the users not the website. It was just another excuse for space to maintain control of a userbase he had no involvement in and was, actually, actively hostile through his career if history is not mistaken. Space is a sociopath and a narcissist. OIf that were true he would agree to redirect the board to here.
You couldn't have simply presented your evidence to the users, explained the situation to them and told them what the plan was? If you had the loyalty of the users, they'd follow. Your need to forcibly manipulate the users doing what you wanted reveals you know full well no-one trusts you.
LMFAO, yeah it's not like space would have just ejected the mods if they threatened to leave. Get real, dude. Space would do literally anything to hold onto that community and be the "Totally cool dude who runs an imageboard." And even still that would have caused a split.
Bunkerchan was a bunker not a permanent residency. Space has spent the better part of a few years positioning himself in such a way so that he could take control of leftypol and drive it into the ground with his own ignorance and hubris.
You mean if you'd suggested you were leaving he'd have provided perfect proof you could present to the users that he was an abusive and bad faith actor, as you were asserting? Something you could have banged out instantly on the twitter account?
Sort of begs the question why you didn't do exactly that.
No, we could not. If you've been using imageboards before you know that migrations are notoriously difficult, and almost exclusively happen when a board is shut down entirely.
No, we did not have "the unwavering support of the users", shitting on jannies on imageboards is basically a tradition as old as imageboards, and shitting on authority is a tradition as old as authority. We did what we thought was best, and I think our concerns were mostly justified.
If your presence was as necessary as you assert, the drop in board quality to insist will occur should have solved the problem of users declining to migrate, the same as you assert it will do so now. You'd also have had the advantage of being able to present yourselves as the aggrieved party in a manner you don't right now.
Your problems also go beyond users simply "shitting on jannies". Even Sage, who seems generally supportive of the moderation team is complaining about people power tripping.
>>1601>Even Sage, who seems generally supportive of the moderation team
>>1601>If your presence was as necessary as you assert
Where was this assertion?
We're reaching levels of cope that shouldn't even be possible.
Like, what the fuck are you even talking about? The proof that space was an abusive pos has been present from the start. The very fact he doesn't give a shit about leftypol, or leftism in general, is proof of this. If he did he would not just lay around collecting clout for being the owner of a big imageboard. This is skitzo as fuck.
Enjoy your sinking ship, faggot.
The endless remarks about /leftpol/ being a shithole because of lax moderation and how bunkerchan is being flooded with reactionaries who are destroying board quality.
If you were there when those comments were made, you'd see how fucking awful it actually was. Dollars realized his position on allowing nazis to shit up the place was retarded and started banning them.
>>1596>this is a retarded non sequitur: The community is the users not the website.
Fixed your post. Nothing what you say is an argument against just setting up another website without being dramafags and making a hundred stickies about it on Bunker.
So then it was never about growing leftism it was just about having control. Interesting…
I haven't seen dollars banning nazis, they're still shitting up all the threads on bunkerchan
I missed all this, what was the vandalism?
Not deepthroating space's cock.
Yes it was about control. Space was irresponsible with the management of bunkerchan in so many ways, and completely ignored the democratic process that guided the actions of the rest of the administration. >>1612
Someone suggested to nuke all threads on bunkerchan to force a migration here after having transfered all threads.
yeah well someone suggested i kill myself. was it a staff member or just some anonymous retard?
Oh, yeah it was a staff member who suggested it. It was a plan I supported too. Explained my reasoning here >>1600
So there was no vandalism, just a suggestion?
And the suggestion was not to vandalise but to orderly move everything over here?
Yes, that's basically it. We retained our Democratic centralism even in our "conspiracy", any final move, includind this suggestion, would have had to be properly discussed and then voted.
its open source go ahead and code that shit yourself and do a pull request
>>1604>I am behaving in an aggressive manner to compensate for my extremely small penis
Don't worry anon, it's the motion of the ocean not the size of the ship that counts. I'm sure you can find someone who will love you for who you are.
>>1588>wait we did
Yes. Multiple times. Made a thread about organising a union of posters, deleted. Made a thread about making a matrix room for posters ran by posters, deleted. After that I made other threads about organising not using matrix, still deleted. Bullshit excuses were given every time. >Oh. Fuck you. Make a room on Matrix.
see above, i did, the thread was got rid of. Second to this, nobody uses matrix. If you want to organise workers, and their boss doesn't allow union officials in the workplace, do you go to the pub they all frequent, or do you demand that they go to some other pub they never go to and has shitty expensive drinks and inhospitable staff?
On top of that, look at it like this. Where do you expect posters to talk about this now? Where can you guys make appeals to the posters? Nowhere, is where. They weren't allowed off board communications. So you want to subvert space and the gang, where will you do this? On his own board? No. He will delete the threads. On here? Few people check here, and the communication line is anonymous and not permanent i.e. low trust, bad for organising. Picture that bunkerchan had had, a general discord, a tankie discord, an anarchist discord etc, when the whole shit went down, you could have been in these places, explaining your position without space interfering, getting people on your side. Further to this, had the board gone down for some reason, say, space had deleted it in a fit of pique or something, or it had just gone down due to lack of maintainence, where do the posters go? A few on matrix yeh, but nowhere near the amount who post on the board. So basically, the community lives and dies entirely with board. Most people who game go on discord every day, see notifications etc. On top of the "muh spyware" stop pretending like anybody on here does anything worth spying on. I probably do the most real life shit of any poster, im not trying to brag its just a fact (or others don't talk about it) everything I do in real life had a real life mark it leaves down. No way to avoid that building real unions etc. Unless you are making some IRA or underground maoist insurgent group, it literally barely matters. Its a larp, and an excuse to wrest control of communications from the posters.>we are not going to check your discord links to see
how about you leave it up to posters to judge themselves what discords they use, or failing that, it hardly difficult to sign into a fucking discord and judge whether its lefit or not. Takes all of two minutes. So your argument for why the board community is bound like some abused wife to a partner who won't let her have friends, its your own laziness? I'm not sure which is worse tbh. Being control freaks, or just lazy. >This is obviously unacceptable, and I do agree that mod autonomy
atleast we can agree on that. > I personally hope this will be rectified with the addition of proper "party" meetings where we discuss tactics and iron out an approach that leaves little room for interpretation by our moderators.
this seems positive
>>1590>nobody replies to you but me the tripfag
>>1617>So there was no vandalism
1. Mods being drama queens made several stickies all about the same thing.
2. Mods discussed nuking all threads.
You must be from Twitter since both things were already stated ITT. Possibly a third thing is that mods also banned non-troll users, but that might well be due to regular retardation and not malicious intent.
I agree entirely there has never been a connection between the posters and the mods. I also agree, you guys were getting better as I have said. It was extremely slowly. Surely i could say the same about space giving you guys permissions, it just wasn't as fast as you would have liked? >>1592
the posters are objectively being ignored. Not one single normal poster wanted a split. Not one. Most of them agreed that the mods should have their way, this was not listened to. There is NO OFFICIAL STRUCTURE AT ALL AND THERE NEVER HAS BEEN for the mods acting upon the wishes of the posters. It is an objective fact, nothing more nothing less, the posters and the mods have no connection or barely any connection. The poster in this post >>1591
agrees. But sure, make it about me personally because that is literally all you've got.
oh and another thing about discord, on old leftypol, there was a bunch of discords, people liked using them. It was only after oldbos spergout and destruction of the board and subsequent super uptight moderation and personal paranoia that discords were got rid of. Then there was a long term campaign to smear their use, by mods samefagging mostly. the board culture in this regard was subverted in order to consolidate power in the hands of the mods.
and if you are going to pretend mods haven't done things like this whatever. I watched it happen on multiple occasions you cannot convince me otherwise
Oh no, not stickies how horrible.
So no vandalism was done. No need to post this dozens of times.
>>1625>Surely i could say the same about space giving you guys permissions, it just wasn't as fast as you would have liked?
No. We had a deal from the beginning that rat get access, then he postponed for over a year and then suddenly decided that he needed ID from both the /GET/ mod and comrade_rat, which worried rat about space_ having doxing powers over him, since space_ was turning into a real psycho.>Then there was a long term campaign to smear their use, by mods samefagging mostly
Not true, but the general paranoia about fbi.gov probably affected us. Still, why you gotta use discord nigga. It reflects really poorly on communism that comrades want to organize on such a hostile platform.
Whether you want to believe this or not I don't care, we never organized any anonymous campaigns. Not a single one.
right but you are saying you guys were going in the direction of more poster input it was just slow, so space was going in the direction of more mod input it was just slow.
right okay so I should probably be more distinct with all this and stress the point CERTAIN mods did these things, probably individually, and also used their mod powers to back this up. I know this because i did certain tests, for instance deliberately samefagging, and then magically the other poster knows for certain I am samefagging, for example. Also the posting style of certain mods translated to the same arguments.
like i really do understand you are not all the same, but you do have some rogues I am 100% certain of it.
why discord? Because it is user friendly and people are often online. It doesn't reflect badly on anyone. Loads of people use discord. Eyes left podcast (mike prysner of PSL) has a discord, Media Roots radio has a discord, finbol had a discord (which was his downfall admittedly but thats cos he did creepy things, not the fault of discord)
other than that, lots of non political people use discord just to chat, etc, particularly now in lockdown. Its a normie thing now, which is good, we should be aiming at normies, not insular image board people. Also, there is no reason we couldn't also have super sekret IRC etc for people that care about anonymity. Most people actually do not, its a handful of tech bros that really give a fuck.
as a side note, its the kind of thing squatters and smashies are obsessed with (because i am both a squatter and smashy), and trade unionists don't give a fuck about, in my experience. Considering there is neither squatting or smashing to be done online, security risks beyond actually getting doxxed are pretty minimal. don't post face. Don't post address, don't post too many personal details, you'll be golden
Bruh, the mods didn't want a split either. Space forcibly ejected the most vocal mods, then proceeded to eject all mods except the scab, dollars. Dollars then didn't recognize the mods as legitimate and established himself as the dictator of leftypol. Everything that was previously decided democratically by volunteers was immediately made to the whim of dollars, who says he is "doing it for leftypol". He is further forcing the split because many mods do no want to submit to dictatorial tyrannical rule after participating in a democracy.
Further, the team is active on the matrix channel and suggestions are taken seriously. Not all suggestions can be acted upon. And some get lost in the noise. Dollars has never posted on the leftypol matrix chat afaik. There is even less accountability in that regard. Even further, all volunteers are users, so despite being an imperfect democracy, a variety of opinions does make discussion much more contentious and compromises have to be made all the time.
Yes, the mod team could be more transparent and more democratic, but to say it isn't at all is unfair and not really true. It is probably one of the most democratically moderated internet community, and keep in mind, in a very hostile environment, namely, anonymous political imageboards.
>>1628>i did certain tests, for instance deliberately samefagging, and then magically the other poster knows for certain I am samefagging, for example
Lmao your posting style is just extremely obvious. It's even extremely obvious when you're trying to cover up your posting style. A tripcode does not give you magic anonymity powers.
I'm a regular poster. I liv ein the third word and come to leftypol once a week or so and read the discussion and find books and news to spend my time on. I was with you all along on this thread, but this stupid discord obsession totally lost me. Your interlocutors are right, stop pretending you're the userbase. I will never in my life use fucking Discord to discuss communism. I don't game, I hate notifications and I don't have 3 GB of RAM to waste on fucking spyware. If you keep pretending organising on Discord is the only way to organise, you'll end up with a union not of leftyposters but of first-world gamers and glowies. Shut up about Discord.
> lists western podcasts and youtube gamer personalities> admits to being committing small-scale terrorism, which even your dear Mao considered less than useless
Proves my point.
>>1629>Bruh, the mods didn't want a split either.
its not really the point. The posters did not get what they wanted, and they almost never do. I am aware space also doesn't do this. But my entire point is that the mods and posters should come together and the posters need instutitions of power to realise their power.
I also agree as I've said you were getting better, but that is only a very recent thing and amounts from going from rung zero to rung 1. A start. I also agree you can't have a proper democracy on an image board, again, my thoughts on this are up and down the thread. we need a union of posters you guys can reference, lead by regular posters you guys can confirm are regular >>1630>Lmao your posting style is just extremely obvious.
I am aware you pedant. You realise how easy it is to change your posting style for a task like this? Deliberately selecting words you don't use normally etc, changing the way you use punctuation, changing the core of the argument and only agreeing slightly, but disagreeing mostly. All of this was done. On top of that, I kept a lot of screenshots from these threads, and you can look it is often the same exact phrases being used.
>I'm a regular poster. I liv ein the third word and come to leftypol once a week or so and read the discussion and find books and news to spend my time on
all of this means literally nothing, you are an anon poster. I could drop my trip and invent a character as well.
>I will never in my life use fucking Discord to discuss communism. I don't game, I hate notifications
you are in a minority on this board not gaming and having discord.
>Your interlocutors are right, stop pretending you're the userbase
im not pretending I'm the userbase, samefag. This point has been addressed above if you had the balls to answer it.
>If you keep pretending organising on Discord is the only way to organise
its not, but for a chan, it is A useful way. fuck i even said "Also, there is no reason we couldn't also have super sekret IRC etc for people that care about anonymity. Most people actually do not, its a handful of tech bros that really give a fuck."
Its hilarious that you tell me I pretend I am the userbase, when your argument is "i don't game and I hate notifications" Well woopee do you personally don't like notifications or gaming real materialist argument here.
>you'll end up with a union not of leftyposters but of first-world gamers
that is most of the posters. I don't know where you think you are. This is again the whole thing about people taking leftypol far too seriously and not at all serious enough at the same time.
>shut up about discord >just shut up
bitch please, cry more. This is an adult discussion.
>squatting and smashing is small scale terrorism
>western podcasts and gamer personalities
PSL is mayve the largest socialist party in America. Are you under the impression the third world left like the NPA would all flock to leftypol if we only used matrix instead of discord or something? kek
>>1628>so space was going in the direction of more mod input it was just slow.
No he wasn't. And it's not about more or less mod input, leftypol was supposed to be entirely independent from space as per the deal we signed when we moved from 8chan.
I remember a situation where a mod was really paranoid about you samefagging. He was convinced you were a wrecker and wanted to out you as a samefagger. It was a bit chaotic due to other things at the time, and it was difficult to build some consensus about the situation in the mod crew, so he decided to act autonomously on his suspicions. Yeah, not an ideal situation.
About discord I will just echo what our comrade said here. >>1630
>>1632>No he wasn't. And it's not about more or less mod input,
ill leave this particular thread of conversation cos we are just degenerating into >yes it is>no it isn't
notice I said we not you, i respectfully disagree.
>I remember a situation where a mod was really paranoid about you samefagging.
I samefag in these situations: 1) during raids from /pol/ because its funny 2) for the memes in meme tier threads and conversations 3) While posting in threads with Salty Emmanuel of the Email, who is a literal wrecker and continually, deliberately disruptive poster who also samefags a shit ton and is (probably) also a mod.
I don't do it in any other situation.
>He was convinced you were a wrecker and wanted to out you as a samefagger.
see, this is what makes me think he (salty emmanuel of the email) is a mod, because I literally samefag either against him or in situations nobody cares about. So if he is complaining about me samefagging, it is most likely because it was me arguing with him. Most recently when he threatened to doxx me or close to it with that email. He wants to make out like I'm the wrecker, because he is the literal wrecker, who has on multiple occasions deliberately shit up the board pretending to be me, or threatening to try and doxx, etc etc.
I answered what that guy said here >>1631
so if you echo what he said perhaps you care to continue the conversation after my response to him
>>1633>ill leave this particular thread of conversation cos we are just degenerating into
I wish you'd just admit you're talking out of your ass, but okay.>I samefag in these situations
That's fine, and I'm not saying samefagging is illegal, just that this mod was convinced you're a psychowrecker. I have no idea what a salty emmanuel is and I'm not sure I care to travel down your rabbit hole of conspiracy.>>1631>you are in a minority on this board not gaming and having discord.
Use it for gaming if you want, just find somewhere else to discuss radical politics, a place that doesn't exclude sensible comrades.>that is most of the posters
If it were, /games/ and the games general wouldn't have been so slow. And there are plenty of "gamers" who despise discord as well.
Salty Emmanuel of the Email is the guy who threatened to send the tenant union organising thread to the paid organisers of the tenant union I am part of, in order to expose that I post here, because we had a political disagreement about tactics. It was a big hulabaloo a couple weeks back. He is distinctly the same poster who about a year ago adopted the name Sage and deliberately wrecked multiple threads. Its actually the reason i post with a trip. Since then he has done it other times. If you remember the whole "we are all Sage, Sage came in me" thing, from around the time of the Bolivian coup, it was this incident that kicked that off. Indeed, one of threads of wrecked was the Bolivian coup thread. Other posters have also noticed that he does this not just me. Its an extremely distinctive style of very angry incoherent posting.
> just find somewhere else to discuss radical politics
it is clear that nobody wants to use Matrix. However when discord was used, many people did.
I don't know a single trade union organiser, tenant union organiser, or even communist party member IRL who thinks discord is so terrible. >If it were, /games/ and the games general wouldn't have been so slow.
i personally game but have no interest in discussing games. Also we had to fight for that thread I believe so that probably has something to do with it.
This is… another thing. Remember the music thread fights? Those threads were popular with many posters an the mods still deleted them. Also the conspiracy theory thread, which was one of the most popular threads, had to be fought for and still the mods wanted to delete it, just other examples of the userbase not getting what they want
We do support offline communities and you've named a few of them yourself. Finbol's discord, leftybooru, the matrix chat, etc.. These are all places we know people from and can spread the word. It seems strange to say we don't support any seperate institutions when it was the staff(not space_) that worked closely with the New Multitude magazine effort.
So for the question of "what will we do now?", for now admittedly all our focus is on making the site as feature complete as it was previously. Flags and the report system being down seem more important than number of users at the moment. Once that is finished we will begin a propaganda campaign telling everyone what has happened. Many have said that they had no idea there was a split until they saw users talking about it in threads, as they've come to ignore staff posts. We need to spread the word, but that's after we're satisfied with the board.
As for the tripcoder's grievances with vols. I won't pretend to know the heart of every volunteer we have. I will say that the idea to have term limits for staff seems popular internally and externally. So as far as accountability goes that should help in the sense of making sure personal vol grievances are not reflective of the staff as a whole. People might behave more moderately if they know they're eventually going to be judged on their actions as vols shortly in the future.
Okay well I know for a fact that the person who imitated you as sage during the Bolivia coup (I was the mod who banned him) is not the person who sent that email, and neither of those posters are on the mod team (I checked the email guy's post history). I'm not going to go into any more detail about it though. You're simply too paranoid my dude. >it is clear that nobody wants to use Matrix.
Except for those hundreds of users who did join Matrix.>Also the conspiracy theory thread, which was one of the most popular threads, had to be fought for and still the mods wanted to delete it<just other examples of the userbase not getting what they want
Not sure you realize how hard you contradict yourself here. And the music threads were not universally loved. A lot of people found them really annoying and spammy, and unrelated to politics. There was never any discussion in the music threads, just people posting their playlists hoping for some (you)s.
Look Sage, I am more tolerant of you than some but accusing one of us of sending emails to try dox you is fucked up. You have no evidence of that whatsoever so stop stirring shit. Furthermore, please stop essentially spamming this topic with unrelated stuff to the actual split. If you want to rant about the mods then I invite you to use the new /meta/ board.
>>1636>support offline communities
Sorry, I meant off-board communities.
In specific contexts in which abundant empirical evidence is available, fairly reliable short-term prediction and control of a society's behavior may be possible. For example, economists can predict some of the immediate consequences for a modern industrial society of a rise or a fall in the interest rates. Hence, by raising or lowering interest rates they can manipulate such variables as the levels of inflation and of unemployment. Indirect consequences are harder to predict, and prediction of the consequences of more elaborate financial manipulations is largely guesswork. That's why the economic policies of the U.S. government are subject to so much controversy: No one knows for certain what the consequences of those policies really are.
Outside of contexts in which abundant empirical evidence is available, or when longer-term effects are at issue, successful prediction-and therefore successful management of a society's development-is far more difficult. In fact, failure is the norm.
During the first half of the second century BC, sumptuary laws (laws intended to limit conspicuous consumption) were enacted in an effort to forestall the incipient decadence of Roman society. As is usual with sumptuary laws, these failed to have the desired effect, and the decay of Roman mores continued unchecked. By the early first century BC, Rome had become politically unstable. With the help of soldiers under his command, Lucius Cornelius Sulla seized control of the city, physically exterminated the opposition, and carried out a comprehensive program of reform that was intended to restore stable government. But Sulla's intervention only made the situation worse, because he had killed off the " defenders of lawful government" and had filled the Senate with unscrupulous men "whose tradition was the opposite of that sense of mission and public service that had animated the best of the aristocracy." Consequently the Roman political system continued to unravel, and by the middle of the first century BC Rome's traditional republican government was essentially defunct.
In Italy during the 9th century AD certain kings promulgated laws intended to limit the oppression and exploitation of peasants by the aristocracy. "The laws proved futile, however, and aristocratic landowning and political dominance continued to grow."
Simon Bolivar was the principal leader of the revolutions through which Spain's American colonies achieved their independence. He had hoped and expected to establish stable and "enlightened" government throughout Spanish America, but he made so little progress toward that objective that he wrote in bitterness shortly before his death in 1830: "He who serves a revolution plows the sea." Bolivar went on to predict that Spanish America would "infallibly fall into the hands of the unrestrained multitude to pass afterward to those of . . . petty tyrants of all races and colors . . . [We will be] devoured by all crimes and extinguished by ferocity [so that] the Europeans will not deign to conquer us . . . . " Allowing for a good deal of exaggeration attributable to the emotion under which Bolivar wrote, this prediction held (roughly) true for a century and a half after his death. But notice that Bolivar did not arrive at this prediction until too late; and that it was a very general prediction that asserted nothing specific
In the United States during the late 19th century there were
>worker-housing projects sponsored by a number of individual philanthropists and housing reformers. Their objective was to show that efforts to improve the living conditions of workers could be combined with . . . profits of 5 percent annually . . . . Reformers believed that the model dwellings would set a standard that other landlords would be forced to meet . . . mostly because
of the workings of competition. Unfortunately, this solution to the housing problem did not take hold . . . . The great mass of urban workers . . . were crowded into . . . tenements that operated solely for profit.
It is not apparent that there has been any progress over the centuries in the capacity of humans to guide the development of their societies. Relatively recent (post-1950) efforts in this direction may seem superficially to be more sophisticated than those of earlier times, but they do not appear to be more successful.
The social reform programs of the mid-1960s in the United States, spearheaded by President Lyndon Johnson, revealed that beliefs about the
causes and cures of such social problems as crime, drug abuse, poverty,
and slums had little validity. For example, according to one disappointed
>Once upon a time we thought that if we could only get our problem families out of those dreadful slums, then papa would stop taking dope, mama would stop chasing around, and junior would stop carrying a knife. Well, we've got them in a nice new apartment with modern kitchens and a recreation center. And they're the same bunch of bastards they always were.
This doesn't mean that all of the reform programs were total failures, but the general level of success was so low as to indicate that the reformers did not understand the workings of society well enough to know what should be done to solve the social problems that they addressed. Where they achieved some modest level of success they probably did so mainly through luck.
One could go on and on citing examples like the foregoing ones.
One could also cite many examples of efforts to control the development
of societies in which the immediate goals of the efforts have been achieved.
But in such cases the longer-term consequences for society as a whole have
not been what the reformers or revolutionaries have expected or desired.
>>1631> You realise how easy it is to change your posting style for a task like this? Deliberately selecting words you don't use normally etc, changing the way you use punctuation, changing the core of the argument and only agreeing slightly, but disagreeing mostly. All of this was done
I'm telling you everyone can tell you're doing this. You don't need IP logs to tell.
I like leftypol over, say, chapo, because it's the most international leftist forum on the Internet. We get comrades regularly posting from Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, China, Guatemala, Vietnam, South Korea, India, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Palestine, South Africa, and they all bring their own perspectives.
I stay away from the Yankee and British threads because I don't care what goes on within. Perhaps in there there are a lot of discord lover gamers, the PSL matters for something, and smashing is somehow a revolutionary action. As it is it looks like you're blinded by your first world perspective. You claim to want to give a voice to the posters, but you don't seem to realise that most of the world can't even open Discord without their computers slowing to a crawl. When we disagree with you instead of backing off you accuse us of being the character of a mod and belittle us for not being online 24/7 like you and having read all your arguments. It's pathetic.
>use discord not matrix
For spreading ideology to normalfags? Sure.
For our own chat? FFFFUCK NO.
Any left-of-center community should not willingly normalize closed, capitalist ventures. Furthermore, it requires a phone verification for anyone using a proxy.
Holy shit are you a schizo or what
It is really likely that among the 9 new mods recruited in emergency by d011ars(in the middle of a /pol/ raid) that a few of them are literal /pol/tards.
>ThingNoticer shitposts in USA general
>someone replies with a "dont reply" infographic
>imitate ThingNoticer with a fake rage-reply
>get banned and post edited by mod who doesnt get the joke
This is why we gotta persecute reactionaries
If we dont they will just inevitably infiltrate the ranks
okay, so you support finbol in his discord efforts but it is absolutely haram to have directly leftypol associated discords? Or even, not directly associated, but discords you are allowed to post on leftypol? How does that make sense? It is also enough that you i.e the mods know people. The entire point is that its a community effort. New multitude is a publication not a chat room. Kudos on that though well done, more stuff like that please.
Honestly also, term limits are gonna cause you a whole world of worry and subversion. If the mod processes were more robust and the userbase had more control I don't think this would be so much of an issue. If you think you can find new mods often enough then maybe it can work, but I see this as a very messy process for you. I am willing to entertain it though its not a bad idea in principle. >>1637
bro how can you know this for a fact? Also, really, you gonna say I'm paranoid and then say something mysterious like "that is all the detail I will go into".
Surely you want me to shut up and so will explain the situation?
>Except for those hundreds of users who did join Matrix.
joined. How big was the community of regular posters though really?
>music threads weren't popular >people were posting in them
choose friend >>1638
ey ey ey I only said he was probably a mod. I didn't say he definitely was one. He sure simps for mods extremely hard most of the time, and seemed to have some kind of protected status among the mods considering he wrecked deliberately and it took a long time for him to be banned each time, and each time I was somehow accused of being the wrecker as if it was actually a consideration given really quite clear circumstance. Also like I said, I made bait threads to draw him and did the old samefag test. And some others, but I'm not going to reveal them because I still conduct them. Are you saying it is impossible somebody with mod privs also had another IP address they liked to use?
Also I would say the discord thing is relevant to the split, because I am specifically talking about how it could have gone differently if there was a more robust off board community. >>1641>I'm telling you everyone can tell you're doing this.
oh can you really, so which posts in this thread are me samefagging? >>1641
there is zero of substance in here. You are just saying things you like and dislike. Nothing about the split or the board, there is not even really a point to it.
Anyway. Nobody has actually answered this and this is the point I mainly wanted to make today, so I am happy to drop every other point besides this one which was made here, >>1622 >On top of that, look at it like this. Where do you expect posters to talk about this now? Where can you guys make appeals to the posters? Nowhere, is where. They weren't allowed off board communications. So you want to subvert space and the gang, where will you do this? On his own board? No. He will delete the threads. On here? Few people check here, and the communication line is anonymous and not permanent i.e. low trust, bad for organising. Picture that bunkerchan had had, a general discord, a tankie discord, an anarchist discord etc, when the whole shit went down, you could have been in these places, explaining your position without space interfering, getting people on your side. Further to this, had the board gone down for some reason, say, space had deleted it in a fit of pique or something, or it had just gone down due to lack of maintainence, where do the posters go? A few on matrix yeh, but nowhere near the amount who post on the board. So basically, the community lives and dies entirely with board.
PS this site crashed for like 4 hours last night it was inaccessible
okay so make your own super sekret club chat and stop getting in the way
>>1649>Surely you want me to shut up
There is not a single poster here who doesn't want your retarded ass to shut up already, but no amount of words that you simply distort and ignore so you can keep talking to yourself will change that.
You wouldn't even take your pills if your voices in your head suddenly told you to.
boring ad hom. Next
>>1652>thinking schizophrenic textwalls of debunked shit are interesting
Getting in the way of what?
Reddit.com detected lmao. Maybe vaush has made an epic twitch stream debunking my arguments here I don’t know about.
I told you to focus on a specific point, that the lack of off board community has demonstrably now hampered mod efforts to wrest power from space. Indeed as they say, many posters don’t even know the split has happened. Do you really think this would be the case if the narrative wasn’t concentrated in the hands of space and crew?
Feel free to make an argument any time.
Left wing people talking to each other
>i said reddit i win
Pills, little Schizo.
I told d0llars constantly to get rid of TheThingNoticers and baiters like him but it seems like they and their new mods doesnt care.
>I said skitzo so I win
So you don’t have an answer to the point then, that had we had an off board community this transition would have gone better?
A schizo that has had his fun in tiresome one-sided discussions in which he shows himself unable to read and comprehend insists on repetition of his lost struggles with his own retardation, or else, watch out, he will bring out the buzzwords against you.
Be afraid, the paranoid tripfaggot that is known for samefagging, spamming and ignoring refutations will taint your reputation by saying "reddit".
He needs his medication.
Well I must say, I have my first real complaint with the new bunkerchan moderation. Mod cucks just locked a thread about moralism, so, currently it’s 1-0 to you guys, yes I am actually keeping score.
You gonna say anything of substance at all on the topic? Or just a big personal rant about how I’m a big meanie.
I am once again asking you to stop engaging in off-topic posting and other rampant faggotry.
Ok fuck it, it's hopeless. Just read the OP and nothing else.>>1647
The crazy amount of replies to the schizo spam used to drive me up the wall. I understand replying to the lowest form of bait, I do. But replying to spam in the narrowest sense of the word en masse is just not comprehensible to me.
After its narcissistic rampage and spamming up of the thread with refuted schizo textwalls the retard asks for "substance".
The only substance you need comes in pill form.
Take your meds.
… but nobody cared.
Large amounts of text scare you do they? Feel free to make an argument on the subject at hand any time
Dollars wants to purposely keep the mod team small and prevent communication between them. Without context that sounds like an open-and-shut case of sabotage. As it is, my best guess for his motivation is brain problems.
Why can't the poster union be in another imageboard like bunkerchan
? Or a different style of forum with usernames.>>1665
>I’m a leftist but also unions are bad
they are, cope, we must support the bourgeoisie against reactionary reformist elements.
left critiques of unions exist, u kno
leftist critiques of almost everything exist. Many of them, like the critiques of unions, are fringe even for the left.
I believe the majority of Jannies are not anti union, so clearly this is just you absolutely COPING because you said something completely retarded
Nah dude. Critiquing unions that are not revolutionary are basically central to leftism.
Yeah. A reactionary union is very dangerous.
Bordiga isn’t fringe, Sage
as opposed to the revolutionary mods kek
Bordiga wasn't anti union kek he just felt they should be more rank and file than bureaucratic kek he would support my position over yours definitely.
Regardless to this, the union doesn't exist, and already you want to smear it as reactionary, you attack the very idea of a a union. Seems like you just don't want a union, be that reactionary or otherwise. In the same thread you cry about space not letting you organise. Absolute maximum keks from me lad
mod simp self awareness levels = absolute zero
imagine pretending to have read Bordiga in this thread because you are coping that hard
Isn't the board already the posters union?
So you're not a mods but you are against posters organising. Yeh, you're a cuck.
Yeh all unions are ran by the bosses kek. I thought i was the one wanting a reactionary union
Bruh we are not your bosses. We are posters first and jannies second.
Who owns this board?
A normal poster cannot ban another poster. Simple.
>listen to me i am a tripfag and i speak for everyone on this board
Damn, I guess we should give everyone the ability to ban other posters! Genius idea!
He speaks for me more than the mods do because we are the same class. Already said ITT we have different politics. He is a mao dong autist but if you are the same poster advocating scabbing, you should be deeply ashamed of letting your personal feelings towards a poster drive you to this point. If you are a mod, you should be doubly ashamed of being a Pinkerton agent.
>*removes tripcode* you're either a previous poster in this thread or a mod yourself
>>1689>what you want to give all the proles the property.. silly prole
As he says, there is personal animosity here. He hasn't suggested what you say at all, in fact he has said the exact opposite in this thread and just advocated for platforms to represent regular posters. There is no rational reason to be against this if you are actually a leftist (unless you are a mod)
>>1690>He speaks for me more than the mods do because we are the same class
What surplus value do mods extract from you? What tangible benefit is there to being a mod?
They can with the report button. Mods enact policy based on the will of the users, not their personal whims as a separate class. Users ban each other, mods are just a vessel.
Please don't play dumb as you have been doing with Sage it is not the good look that you think it is. Being a mod means you are in control of the best leftist space online.
Sweet we're like a sports ball team now.
Pick your sides gentle men.
>>1694>They can with the report button.
Wow. You really are clutching at straws. >Mods enact policy based on the will of the users, not their personal whims
Nobody thinks this. If you are the other poster, you accused him of speaking for the whole userbase? Ironic. It is certainly not my will the policy they enact and I have seen many times personal mod whims. My friends from cytubes also do not like the mods, though we favour them over Space_
Please do look up what class means before spouting nonsense.>Being a mod means you are in control of the best leftist space online.
We want it to be the best leftist space online because we are posters like you. The control doesn't benefit us the slightest if it's not being put towards that end.
I have said all I will say today. You lack maturity. I think you should put your personal feelings aside and think about the anons
>>1700>I have said all I will say today.
No, answer this post first. >>1699
Explain how mods and posters have separate interests.
Good night, "anon".
>>1695>Being a mod means you are in control of the best leftist space online
Oh the mods of this board are also mods of chapo.chat? I didn't know that, cool.
>>1625>people liked discords
BS, There was only an Unofficial discord for leftypol that a minority of the user base were even aware of its existence. The mods never bashed against using discord. In fact they openly asked the community about using discord in a thread where they were the ones defending its use (one of the mods admitted to being a moderator at the ulp for a while btw)
Oh lol I forgot about this. I remember it was one moderator who was very in favor of discord, and the rest were mostly indifferent or against it, but the moderator for it was unfortunately
our PR manager (caballo) who takes care of most official posts because of his silver tongue.
>>1706>Its on /bunkerchan/
It was banned even on old 8chan /leftypol/. Old Body Odour and mods did this. By the time of bunkerchan the smears and word filters had done their job. Same with Rojava. Now without Body Odour we see most posters in favour of Rojava again. This thread was also filled to the brim with samefaggers and false flaggers. This is like saying the rigged elections which destroyed the Soviet Union prove nobody liked communism. Liberal Lies. As the next poster says, all the mods but one were against it. >>1701
Okay I leave my laptop open so I see this. Mods have power they want to keep. That is how the interests are different. Posters have no power so no interest to keep it. I know you know this and are just trying your hardest to win the internet fight.
wasn't the whole reason we settled for a matrix because of discord being insecure? That gripe is what came up the most. That post is revisionism. It was early in the switch from 8ch to bunkerchan too, so, things were still getting fleshed out.
>>1708>we see most posters in favour of Rojava again
big if true
>>1708>Mods have power they want to keep
Lol. We have had real trouble filling up our ranks with people willing to actually do this, and a real issue of mods becoming inactive. If you think this "power" is desirable, then why the fuck didn't you apply to be a mod? And you realize that any mod is a bitch to the democratic will of the other mods, right? No individual holds any actual power.
I would like to remind everyone that this was able to happen under the moderation of the mods that are modding on this website currently.
tripcode or not, you remain a fag
People really get online and say to themselves, hmm today I feel like shilling for an islamofascist regime that murdered/tortured at least 50,000 of my comrades and waged a guerilla war against the based marxist Fedai
the fbi.gov word filter wasn't added until quite recently.>OldBO
Can you prove to me that Old BO had anything against discord during his reign? I joined in after 8chan was nuked.> leftypol/leftpol split shit
leftpol died under space and you know that. Please refrain from discussing Rojava here there should be a Syria or WANA thread for you to speak about this. (I'm for the liberation of the kurdish people even if at the end of US-installed puppets would dominate kurdish politics)>all mods but one
Check out the archive I sent. Anon above is right in one sense. Caballo was pro discord and hated matrix for inconvenience. The rest of the mod team simply didn't want to manage another community on another platform. They were fine with users opening a discord but they will not be the ones managing it. Only few of the mod team were against a leftypol discord because either it's a cancerous platform or because it abused the users.
Out of the 17 posts made by the mod team and BO discussing the topic in the archived thread. 10 were very pro discord.
I could be wrong but I think most of those pro posts were by the same two mods. I was the cat poster BTW.
Either way this is a good case for forcing mod names in such situations.
We are considering this but also don't want to create a 'cult of personality', postive or negative, around certain mods. Not saying we won't do it but there is a drawback.
I am clearly not saying this, what I've said is we need a union>>1694>They can with the report button.
and then the fucking mods decide if they are banned holy shit you are INCREDIBLY RETARDED >Mods enact policy based on the will of the users, not their personal whims as a separate class.
Friends from everywhere, in leftypol.org there was no coup. There was a peaceful movement of the mods to recover the respect to our vote, democracy and our constitution.>>1713
that ain't me kek kek >it is impossible there are multiple posters on this board
kek>>1717>The rest of the mod team simply didn't want to manage another community on another platform
how about they let other users make and mod their own then
>>1720>how about they let other users make and mod their own then
Because that's what created ULP.
PS bunkerchan is on strike 2. Although I realised you guys have less posts, so i'm gonna work out some handicapped based on users and PPH, although idk how to see that on this website
unfortunately this is what happens most of the time open discussions with the modding team is held. if caballo reads this I want to apologize for posting the archived thread here. I wanted to clarify the discussion leftypol had on the use of discord, but unfortunately I may have raised some of the hate against one of our comrades.
It's fine, I bring it on myself :P
>Sage shitting up a thread with his autismo takes
>Just like day 1 on Scabchan.
Ahhh, to be young.
but that's every day
If caballo is the one mod shilling discord he is based >>1725>shitting up>posting about the topic
Never change, baby, never change.
I don't remember Sage in the first days of bunkerchan leftypol. Was he there and I deleted him from my memory?
he started posting after the move to bunkerchan
he's a schizo newfag who shits up threads
Pretty sure he started namefagging shortly before the Bolivia coup. I definitely remember a lot of people were very agitated by him at that point.
There's a request on Bunkerchan's /gulag/ to make a music board. We could have it here instead.
It don't real. Just /pol/and tier retardation and reactionary idpol. I agree this place should be harsh on both liberal and reactionary idpol alike but the line is definitely that being trans is a-ok, should not be a political issue at all IMO as it's just a diversion.
Look for a proper suggestions thread.
If it's a board for music in general, not limited to political and leftist music, then that might even be a good board idea. But responding to the anon you replied to, creating just a lot of boards does not attract users.
Try to attract leftists first, once there's a diverse number of them with interests besides politics other things can be added on top. But you don't want to create a bunch of dead boards when you're still in process of regrouping.
I’m 2014 gang and everyone knows it. You are the newfag. I started tripping specifically because of salty Emmanuel of the email having a bitch fit and shitting up the board pretending to be me
nobody gives a fuck, fuck off
if you want to do both a favour kill yourself and nobody has to bother with your retarded ass
>48 posts by Sage!61KGLATVW
>Me, the subject
just tripfag things
Requesting this conversation be migrated to /b/
It's two users' faults.
Not our workplace.
WE DO IT FOR FREE
>not adding code to change 1/50 posts to substitute "communist" and "liberal"
holy fucking this, jannies you should have nuked it, pyongyang and his retarded friends would have seethed so hard
Also a troll of epic proportions
I get no joy from watching the reactionaries fully consume our old home.
There is only sorrow.
Jannies is this true? If so its your first strike and its a big one I am awarding double points
can hardly call them reactionaries when you won't allow union organising and are deleting pro union posts. I didn't actually it myself so i am holding judgement could be a space_ ruse can you confirm or deny please?
Aren't you the person they are referring to when they are talking about some kind of union of posters (whatever the fuck that means)?
Deleting pro union posts? Gonna need proof of such things, sage.
>>1750>deleting pro union posts
schizo tripfag lies
also add a fucking thread updater holy shit
I guarantee you none of those OP actually can or want to discuss political theory or praxis, merely shitposting to distract the board with inane nonsense.
let me tell you a little secret buddy, the quality of the board always depends upon, wait for it, the posters themselves. they learn to ignore shit threads and join in on topics they want to discuss. they don't need handling from 20 janitors for that.
These were my posts and they have deleted 3 posts. In the first I call the janny or janny simp booty blasted because he was pretending Sage was only talking about himself when it was the nigger janny or janny simp talking about Sage while Sage was talking about the union and discord and other things
This is the post I responded to. I said something like "it is you talking about Sage whining about him using a Trip when he is talking about a union and discord and the split." It was more aggressive than this obviously but they have deleted it so now you can't see. I think I prefer Bunkerchan to this nigger janny clique
If we follow your argument to its logical conclusion you are basically saying that bunkerchan is filled with shit-tier posters. Also, your series of points are highly individualistic, completely rejecting contributing factors like structures, incentives, etc.
stay in your containment shithole, we are doing just fine without you.
>>1760>I think I prefer Bunkerchan to this nigger janny clique
So this is your tactic then? You pretend that you are a victim of oppression, then you make sure to finish of your post with signals that indicate you are a dishonest /pol/fag here to stir shit up, and wait for the inevitable ban/deletion you deserve, then pretend that your post was banned for "being pro-union" while it obviously was for /pol/shit bait.
It's easy to see through you, honestly.
>>1757>they learn to ignore shit threads and join in on topics they want to discuss
Reports, complaints, suggestions. All of these things are ways users has helped to stop threads like these. Hell for one poster like you I had whining to me to not ban people I had 1.2 poster I had telling to ban certain people or topics.
The quality of the board is decided on the mod team approaches the board. Too lenient and it becomes directionless and '/b/' aka /leftpol/, too strict and it becomes suffocating like OldBO's /leftypol/. A balance has to struck.
I am one of your like 10 users btw, half of which are probably mods. You are really so autistic as to be pushing people away at this stage?
>>1762>we are doing just fine without you
If so, why come here? Your actions betray your words.
All posts deleted were either
I love sage
and nothing more bc this discussion of mental issues has gone on long enough
I am not a polack janny nigger. Go look at my posts. I posted one post asking about what happened with the split. Then a day or two later I have read this thread. I then agreed with Sage but this is not allowed apparently.
So you just delete even more posts. You guys actually never learn what the hell is wrong with you
>>1770>53 posts by Sage!61KGLATVW ITT>almost all of which is derailing, schizo conspiracy theories, his ego, off topic discussions
>inb4 I'm a janny
I just did a ctrl+f in the thread, you moron
>>1770>So you just delete even more posts.
mod tag for this post
This isnt as big a deal as sage is trying to make it out as because the posts were just shit posts. I can understand trying to keep this tread more secure
i could ask you the same, why do you keep coming there?
>>1775>leave up the posts insulting sage >take down the posts defending him
shut up nigger janny. You should be ashamed
this is not true though, just because you delete the posts agreeing with Sage does not make it true either. He is talking about the board and the split, it is in fact you who is only talking about Sage
How do you know we post there anymore?
your janny is posting there rn
In the thread that you created and linked here…
Well, I can see some mod has been very triggered this morning. Disappointing. We desperately need that union of posters.
>>1783>one mod was very annoyed that this thread was turning into a discussion only about sage. He deleted a handful of newer posts, but left all old posts intact.
so basically>i don't like this thread therefore i will edit it to my liking, completely disregarding the communal nature of a website
what a joke, you all deserved to be purged.
It is not unreasonable for someone to want to delete derailing posts in a meta thread.
tbh looking at two tabs of the threads, one pre and one post deletion, we aren't missing much.
preferably they'd delete sage altogether but oh well
It's not unreasonable to curate meta threads.
This post totally doesn't reek of desperation by anymeans, lol.
you have to be logged in and in mod view to post with tag.
>>1786>preferably they'd delete sage altogether
>>1786>preferably they'd delete sage altogether
>Not knowing who the literal admins are let alone comatoast
Friend I think you need to go back to scabchan and then go even further back to 4chan.
As you can see mods, allowing one of yours to become triggered and try to edit discussion has caused you considerable kerfuffle. Wouldn’t do that again if I were you.
I wasn’t derailing shit I was having a meta discussion in the meta thread holy shit you really are booty blasted as fuck.
the only thing triggered is your narcissistic spamming retarded ass, you dumbass faggot
off yourself already, nobody gives a shit you obnoxious screeching shitfilled cunt
bitching about others being triggered while you do nothing but bitch about your pathetic existence and your "score" and all this schizo shit is pretty hilarious to everyone else but not past a certain point of your spam just shitting up thread after thread
go run into traffic you dipshit
Holy fuck, I kek'd so hard.
Mental illness most of the time is not entertaining but quite boring.
>>1795>I am not triggered >several lines of rage
No, of course not
You are the one bitching about his existence. Clearly keeping score is not talking about himself, but directly talking about both boards. You need to calm down it is making you look very silly.
Look janitor niggers, nobody is going to use your shit board if you act like this, the users of bunkerchan think you are a laughing stock, you simping yourselves on the board doesn't change that and just makes you look even more pathetic. >>1796>bitching >triggered>bitch>pathetic>schizo>spam>shitting up>run into traffic >dipshit
Seems level headed to me. I don't see anything about the board here though. Seems off topic, should probably be deleted. >>1799
Holy fuck, I kek'd so hard
In my six years of using /leftypol/, I don't really recall bona fide users using "janny nigger", however this is rather common on /pol/. Really makes one think.thinkThink
It's the deranged tripfag samefagging
>>1803>everything i don't like is /pol/ >>1805>there couldn't possibly be more than one poster that disagrees with me >Literally no one here
Indeed there is literally no one here apart from Sage basically LMAO your biggest supporter and this is what you do. >>1806
Its the deranged mods samefagging
Came here because of this thread. You mods really are stuck up. All these people saying you are wrong and the best you can do is pretend they are all /pol/? This is why nobody cares you are gone, even if they don't like space.
democracy should only be had to the extent that we can vet people to ensure reactionaries don't get to vote on the proposals. democracy as a system exists only as a system to serve as a way to mediate inter-ideological conflicts and leadership, and as such it must be composed of the allowed ideological range of /leftypol/ (IE leftists). Any non-leftists or those who flirt too heavily with reaction should be excluded by definition.
>>1135>This site will be hosted at leftypol.org , a domain which was given to us by the former owner of the /leftypol/ splinter site at that address.
Y'all are terrible at picking domain names. There are now three "leftist" imageboards:
stick with the *chan moniker please
using pol rethoric to try convince really is pathetic
LOOK, >>NIGGER<< I'M HERE FOR A REASONABLE DISCUSSION, >>TRANNY<<
WHAT'S THAT? YOU DELETE MY POST? YOU ARE A TYRANT!
4) Although Lenin’s struggle against the rule of state bureaucracy is well known, what is less well known is that, as Lewin perspicuously notes, with his central proposal of the new ruling body, the Central Control Commission, Lenin was trying to square the circle of democracy and the dictatorship of the party-state. While admitting the dictatorial nature of the Soviet regime, he tried to
>establish at the summit of the dictatorship a balance between different elements, a system of reciprocal control that could serve the same function – the comparison is no more than approximate – as the separation of powers in a democratic regime. An important Central Committee, raised to the rank of Party Conference, would lay down the broad lines of policy and supervise the whole Party apparatus, while itself participating in the execution of more important tasks … Part of this Central Committee, the Central Control Commission, would, in addition to its work within the Central Committee, act as a control of the Central Committee and of its various offshoots – the Political Bureau, the Secretariat, the Orgburo. The Central Control Commission … would occupy a special position with relation to the other institutions; its independence would be assured by its direct link to the Party Congress, without the mediation of the Politburo and its administrative organs or of the Central Committee.
Checks and balances, the division of powers, mutual control – this was Lenin’s desperate answer to the question: who controls the controllers? There is something dream-like, properly fantasmatic, in this idea of a CCC: an independent, educational and controlling body with an ‘apolitical’ edge, consisting of the best teachers and technocratic specialists monitoring the ‘politicised’ CC and its organs – in short, this was to be neutral expert knowledge keeping the Party executives in check. However, everything hinges here on the true independence of the Party congress, already undermined de facto by the prohibition of factions, which allowed the top Party apparatus to control it, dismissing its critics as ‘factionalists’. The naivety of Lenin’s trust in technocratic experts is all the more striking in that it came from a politician who was otherwise fully aware of the all-pervasiveness of a political struggle that allows for no neutral position. However, in ‘dreaming’ (his expression) about the kind of work to be done by the CCC, he describes how this body should resort
>to some semi-humorous trick, cunning device, piece of trickery or something of that sort. I know that in the staid and earnest states of Western Europe such an idea would horrify people and that not a single decent official would even entertain it. I hope, however, that we have not yet become as bureaucratic as all that and that in our midst the discussion of this idea will give rise to nothing more than amusement. Indeed, why not combine pleasure with utility? Why not resort to some humorous or semi-humorous trick to expose something ridiculous, something harmful, something semi-ridiculous, semi-harmful, etc.?
Is this not an almost obscene double of the ‘serious’ executive power concentrated in the Central Committee and Politburo, a kind of non-organic intellectual of the movement, an agent resorting to humour, tricks and the cunning of reason, keeping itself at a distance … a kind of analyst? So why did Lenin’s project miserably fail? (Stalin formally supported the idea, but the CCC was rendered totally impotent and subservient to the Politburo.) The problem was not that the Bolshevik Party was too dictatorial – in Lacanese: excessively functioning as the Master’s discourse. Paradoxical as it may sound, the Party was not functioning enough as a Master, preferring to function more and more as the university discourse. But what does this mean, politically?
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