/meta/ - Ruthless criticism of all that exists (in leftypol.org)

The post

Yes. I am a moderator and I made the post screencapped in the OP (>>572195) which I deleted it as it was an off-topic derail, along with other infringing posts.

The post it references, >>572193, was also removed because it was an off-topic derail made despite no less than three warnings to put such posts on /meta/ instead of attempting to change the topic of an embassy thread. There was no reasonable possibility of doubt that the poster was not aware of the thread topic and its scope.

If the poster wishes to create posts about their legitimate concerns about the site policies regarding moving threads to alt boards, or about the scope of generals, or similar matters, they are welcome to create threads on /meta/ or replies to the Moderation sticky thread. I actually agree with many of these concerns and have an interest in discussing them in a designated thread, there has already been points and counterpoints raised regarding the Squid Game thread (is it killing a thread or bringing attention to a slow board? was the thread political enough to warrant being on /leftypol/? should it matter, as posting it on /leftypol/ may imply an intended direction for discussion?)

>>14190
The warnings were ignored because the alternative is to be ignored. Nobody cares about what is posted here besides you apparently.
Mods shill any thread disagreeing with them anyway, it's pretty widely known. There's no point bringing up an issue with the site here. It's your site at the end of the day, it's just a bit rich you will manipulate discussion to make people promote it.
Why did the mods kill off /siberia/?

>>14191
>Why did the mods kill off /siberia/?
There's a few reasons why /siberia/ has become significantly slower. The overarching theme was making it more of an off-topic board rather than a generic random ("/b/") board.

>1) banning soyjak posting and incel/troon threads
soyjak posts (that is, low effort quote spam) were overall a foreign effort by soyjak.party, with some but few exceptions. It was a large source of raids and thread disruption, which was eventually banned. This resulted in far less raids and an almost total loss of interest on //raid/.
Incel and troon threads were seen as reactionary.
These two sets of bans did remove a lot of the activity and revolted a lot of the users who would then move to leftychan, as evident by the threads that make up their /b/ board. Users on leftypol.org/b/ and later /siberia/ overall expressed approval of the more relaxed atmosphere, although as you suggested many considered the place slow.
It's worth noting that many of the people that made these types of threads almost exclusively used /b/, which is part of why is was impacted disproportionately to all other boards.

>2) 'pennyfag' drama
The pennyfag drama effectively started when a moderator removed posts by a soyposter derailing threads whenever the pennyfag posted in them, to the point where it flooded threads and prevented discussion. Along with this, people started posting images claiming they were of that user's face, which the moderation team (not unanimously) considered was promoting a dox/harassment culture as previously seen with Haz drama, and that having a user's face on a board regularly visited by malicious /pol/ users was a security issue. This case was not unique; another user earlier had their posts removed for posting their own face. Regardless, a rumor started that it was done to 'protect avatarfags', leading to increasing drama. People who believed that mods were supporting avatarfags left the site during the split.

>3) removing the policy of moving medium-effort /pol/ threads on /leftypol/ to /siberia/ instead of deleting them
These would often end up dominating the board with idpol arguments.

These topics being removed, along with some of the users who were engaged by the drama, were probably the biggest reason for the drop in activity, because it's not only their posts, but the replies and their replies that aren't happening. Additionally, those users were incidentally the ones most likely to troll, so them no longer posting results in less back-and-forth reply chains.

Were there any other suspected causes?

>>14192
>were seen as reactionary.
*were seen as reactionary idpol.

>>14192
>There's a few reasons why /siberia/ has become significantly slower. The overarching theme was making it more of an off-topic board rather than a generic random ("/b/") board.
This is reason 0, you really fucked the place up under the guise of this rule. I would post random threads and have them deleted for "low effort", a laughable excuse given the content at any point since then. None of the following reasons were what you killed off the board under, you just hated the culture that developed under it. Anyway,
>>1) banning soyjak posting and incel/troon threads
>soyjak posts (that is, low effort quote spam) were overall a foreign effort by soyjak.party, with some but few exceptions. It was a large source of raids and thread disruption, which was eventually banned. This resulted in far less raids and an almost total loss of interest on //raid/.
I'm struggling to believe this. At the time it felt more like you killed it off to protect your own friends. Leading us into…
>>2) 'pennyfag' drama
This one was amusing because all it did was show moderator hypocrisy. Being the pennyfag was fine, mocking the pennyfag was not. It stinks of nepotism. When I talk to you I just think you're a friend of the pennyfag you degraded yourselves so much to defend them. You embarrassed yourselves more with this than during the Haz drama. It's really pathetic.
You guys really don't know when to make the right decision. It undermines everything you do.
This board is still a place to kill dissent, everyone knows it. You have suffocated the life out of /leftypol/ and it looks no different from a sub such as r/genzedong/new. Expecting people to advertise for you is absurd after what you've done, it's reddit with a lighter touch on threatening violence. I don't know how you can undo the damage caused by your controlfreakery or micromanaging, but you need to start taking a hard look at yourselves and questioning the decisions you've made so far. I doubt you'll listen though, you are all well known for being impossible to get through to.
As a user since 2016 ultimately the only feeling I have is that you've suffocated the board. I don't know how to fix it, it feels like the culture is dead.

An example of the deleted posts:
>>>/leftypol/571924
> (You) seem to simultaneously be mad that we didn't immediately ban Haz, but at the same time are mad that we eventually did ban him, because they started to enjoy having him as a lolcow no matter what terrible effect it was having on the board, and the fact that he was as happy as a pig in shit with that kind of deranged mudslinging. Everyone who mocks Haz just enables him by talking about him.
I'm not mad at all, my point is that you're plagued with short term ideas and decisions. Why did you kill off /siberia/? Why did your team contradict itself on the squid game thread? (yes I know this point is dumb but it's recent and I can't remember literally everything you all do). Note: /siberia/ is the more important one here.
>>>/leftypol/571927
The moderator team wasn't that big at any point until now, for a substantial portion of leftypol's growth phase its main moderator was Prickly, well after the period of Checkers. Moderation only ramped up after the Imperialism Moment.
>>>/leftypol/571940
>The issue isn't that there was a service provider response. It's mainly the drama that surrounded the topic; constant raids getting to the point of child pornography (or pictures intended to be perceived as such, it doesn't matter)
A singular instance of it. It made you look wishy washy, like you were embarrassed at your decision and clamped down on it to hide it at the first opportunity. Nobody else would have caved to external pressure so quickly, and I personally wondered what you'd do with my posts if government authorities started asking. Folding to external pressure is a big no-no in chan culture, it makes people paranoid. You've also adopted a no doxing rule, which makes the board pretty much reddit compliant, when there's a perfectly good reddit at reddit.com. 8chan got took down for massacring people, not for posting information about people. Kiwifarms is still going strong. There needs to be a more informed policy on what is allowed and isn't, it seems it's being led by media opinion at the moment.
>What do you think should have been done instead?
Ban the poster and respond to the provider with their IP. The crackdown made it look like you would hand over anything with no pressure.
>I think this should be discussed on /meta/, not to 'send it to a dead board' but to get a cohesive, focused, discussion on this issue instead of derailing a competing topic. In short, I think the inherent issue of timezones+volunteer hours compounds the poor organization which results in communication issues between moderators online at different times. Now that raids and drama have settled down to non-emergency levels, we should be utilizing the Congress chat for these types of decisions instead of making solo calls.
But it's a dead board, let's just get it out of the way on the main board. 99% of the users are there, and it impacts them and it will be visible on the overboard. Nobody checks /meta/ because nothing is ever done about anything posted there.
>I don't think there is a cohesive view of this, anywhere. The closest would be the site manifesto and constitution, and literally who even looks at that? I actually did read the whole thing.
Based and leftypolpilled

>>14197
>I'm struggling to believe this.
Seeing as someone has just yesterday created the, let's count, 4th /leftypol/ concurrent raid thread on that board, it's hard to see why you're struggling to believe that sentence. You can even see them posting images of their bans in older threads.
>Being the pennyfag was fine
Is this meant to imply being a namefag, tripfag or avatarfag should be banned?
>mocking the pennyfag was not
It was, and still is, fine up until you break the global rule about posting personally identifiable information such as a picture of someone's face. I explained it pretty plainly, people posting users' faces gets deleted, and it didn't just apply to identityfags, we also applied that rule with anons faces.
And on a personal level, I think they're an attention whore just like other identityfags and would ban them if it were my personal imageboard. I impersonated them regularly to mock them.
If it was nepotism for avatarfags like you claim, there wouldn't be people posting 'fuck off bee' or 'fuck off junko' all over the board.

>it feels like the culture is dead
What parts of the culture do you miss? Was it anything that remained after 2018? Much of the culture went with the mass of users and proximity to other 8chan boards. When the drawfags go and no-ones making projects, the culture will struggle at anything but cannibalization.

>>14199
>Is this meant to imply being a namefag, tripfag or avatarfag should be banned?
No, you just cracked down on the mockery of the namefag more than the namefag. It looks like you're playing favourites,
>you break the global rule about posting personally identifiable information such as a picture of someone's face.
This used to be what separated the site from reddit. We used to have liberty in hunting down people. When it comes into force and you want to protect a namefag, it looks like nepotism. We used to be able to hunt down anyone and make them pay. The world is full of bastards, we could get some semblance of payback a long time ago. We should be able to hunt these people down. Most sites don't allow it, we need to be the ones that publicize it.
>What parts of the culture do you miss? Was it anything that remained after 2018? Much of the culture went with the mass of users and proximity to other 8chan boards. When the drawfags go and no-ones making projects, the culture will struggle at anything but cannibalization.
I don't know what I miss, it just feels dead. We've had our new batch of drawfags but none of it feels the same. It feels like we're wearing the skin of the old board.
One of the parts of life is sometimes you end up in a situation that you're not able to work your way out of, sometimes this is your fault, sometimes fate has conspired against you. Maybe we are in an unsolvable situation and the board will never be like it was.
I think letting the site hunt down those that commit injustices is one of the things that could break us away from everywhere else. Criminals and butchers should not go unnamed. The doxing rule is silly, we should fight against attempts to hide the elites identities.

>>14200
What’s missing is the X factor.

Things are too constrained to give birth to the unexpected, random or truly heterodox. Anything seems out of place and there is a twitch to get rid of it rather than to see where it goes.

It is founded in arrogance. People think their views are of a higher quality, and so they should be the arbiter therefore of quality, they can then discern what should be allowed based on that. The problem remains, and I must stress this there is zero qualification or metric by which this supposed “quality” is judged and never has been it is entirely down to personal preference

And, frankly, a majority of people are incapable of differentiation between “objective quality” and “my own subjective tastes” and often confuse “my own subjective tastes” with “the highest possible synthesis of revolutionary theory”.

There is very little room for people accepting that they might be wrong and therefore hearing out other opinions to the extent that you allow them to be around.

What has been lost is challenge, what has been lost is debate besides on a few topics. The scope of orthodoxy that you can’t question has expanded.

I am no longer an anarchist, but this began with the Rojava purge, which amounted to basically a purge of the anarchists. I don’t even like anarchists, but the board was healthier with a culture where there was basically no sacred cows and less consensus besides on a few very fundamental things.

Things fall out of debate, people come at things from a different angle, facts and counter facts are posted, sources analysed.

When people all agree, or at least, don’t have the energy to disagree or say the wrong thing and get banned, there is no motivation to go down a rabbit hole and do some research.

This extends to /pol/ visitors. It’s like any sport, you are not truly tested and don’t reach peak performance until you are playing against another team and you are both all in to win.

Not just sparring with somebody you don’t really want to land a punch on, if you truly hate polyps and polyp ideology and are presented with it, then you will go down 10 Articles about race science just to prove them wrong,

This is where half our content came from, all the debunkers, it came from from people beating out polyps.

Now we are are simply not allowed to do that.

The process by the way, is literally dialectics. Somebody comes in here, we push back, shit ideas are disposed of, new ones emerged .

Nobody is very intelligent, people don’t just come up with new ideas and content, they emerge through dialectical movement.

It’s ironic, because if this were a super serious theory board with high quality discussion, people would understand that. But in fact, the people who want control of the discourse according to their taste are by definition the dumbest posters on the board

>>14202
And no, before someone says “you just want no moderation” wrong. There is a broad consensus (like probably 99.9% of posters) against CP and spam, there is a broad consensus against giving reactionaries the same free reign we would give a leftist, but that doesn’t mean we need to completely silence them, as well as silencing leftists who have one or 2 beliefs some other leftists feel are reactionary, or what have you.

The whole point of this board is discussion, and the discussion aspect has been taken away. Moderation should happen bearing this firmly in mind, and mods should mod with the mindset that it is imperative they use the lightest touch possible, an only intervene in extreme cases, rather than shoe horning in excuses to mod where they feel it is appropriate.

It is a slippery slope, and we have slid very far down already. Time to winch back to the top and attach some strong security ropes so it doesn’t happen again

question answered

>>14204
I think this conversation should keep going, even though I do think the OP was a poor setup for the thread topic. This is the exact kind of conversation that belongs here.
(I haven't thoroughly read all the replies yet due to priorities and IRL being a super shit rn but I intend to respond over the next few days)

>>14242
Suit yourself.