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 No.15632[View All]

948 posts and 75 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.19047

>>19046
Ok point taken.
Now explain to me how "trans rights" are a fundamental part of Marxism-Leninism in every other single instance.

Face it, this "trans rights" "LBGT" and other crap were actively punished and persecuted in every single socialist state, and this is not "rightoid propaganda" bacause the leaders themselves bragged about it, that liberal crap was never a part of Marxism, the fact that now for some reason it suddenly is just confirms that most people here are not even Marxists, but Reddit liberals LARPing as Marxists.

If you say that this crap is socialist or Marxist then it means that the USSR was never Marxist, period, so better take a position about it, troons or Marxism-Leninism.

 No.19048

>>19047
👏TRANS👏RIGHTS👏ARE👏HUMAN👏RIGHTS👏

cope, seethe and fuck off back to /pol/

 No.19049

>>19048
lmao keep being delusional, Stalin and Mao would have sent you to the Gulag.
Fuck off back to Reddit with the rest of your delusional liberal friends.

 No.19050

>>19047
It's not rightoid propaganda since that was the case, unless you're taking a normative stance, in which case it could be.
At the time when socialist countries were intolerant of sexual differences, so was most of the world. In the course of history, the perceptions of and the attitudes towards gay people in socialist countries has often changed very rapidly. Socialist Poland did not repress gay people to the extent the USSR did. Czechoslovakians determined that homosexuality was a variation of the norm in the 1960s. Cuba decriminalized homosexuality in the 1970s. China today has state-run transgender clinics. East Germany had state run social clubs for gay and trans people. The Soviet Union indeed seemed "socially conservative" (by today's standards, not then's), yet still made amazing forays into women's liberation, workplace and social equality, and the study of female sexuality. No reason to assume they wouldn't have eventually shifted towards acceptance of gay and trans people as well.
Stalin, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao and the Kim Jongs were likely unaware of trans people at all, so obviously they could not have supported "trans rights". Seeing how Fidel revised his position, though, why necessarily wouldn't they, if they had lived that long? Granted their "support" would have been way different from and better than what exists in liberal capitalist countries. DDR gay people actually deeply mourned what they were losing at the eve of German Reunification.

 No.19051

File: 1648583276256.gif (3.13 MB, 320x180, 243524.gif)

>Might be a new and fun shitshow starting because the resident postlefts got their panties in a twist of trans rights sticky
>Tfw still 20 hour ban left

 No.19052

>>19051
Mods pls unban Grill and let him participate in this lol

 No.19053

>>19050
Those social changes at the end of the socialist era were not because Marxist was becoming more "gay friendly" but because the world was becoming more liberal in general (and that in part caused the collapse of the USSR).

The fact is that Marxism was never ever gay friendly at all, there's no part of Marxist orthodoxy that says that troons are one of the exploited classes or anything like that, the fact that so much people think that socialism is about "trans rights" (or black rights or anything else like that) just shows that even Marxism is liberalized and commodified today.

Also it's a bit dumb to say that "If Stalin, Lenin Mao etc had lived as much as Fidel they would been gay friendly" that is wishful thinking straight out Reddit.

 No.19054

>>19052
I'm going sleep sleep anyways

 No.19055

>>19053
>Those social changes at the end of the socialist era were not because Marxist was becoming more "gay friendly" but because the world was becoming more liberal in general (and that in part caused the collapse of the USSR).
Today I learned that the 1960-1970s were "the end of the socialist era". Are you a trot or a leftcom? Nice goal post moving - only the changes you accept were the "real orthodox Marxism", but everything you don't like is liberalism?
>The fact is that Marxism was never ever gay friendly at all, there's no part of Marxist orthodoxy that says that troons are one of the exploited classes or anything like that, the fact that so much people think that socialism is about "trans rights" (or black rights or anything else like that) just shows that even Marxism is liberalized and commodified today.
Who cares, your conception of "Marxism" is all online culture war shit, it's blatantly obvious. You're just representing the different, contrarian side of the radlib coin. Please show me the 30 volumes of Stalin writing about how undialectical homosex is, since apparently it was so central for his ideology to be "not friendly to the gays".
>Also it's a bit dumb to say that "If Stalin, Lenin Mao etc had lived as much as Fidel they would been gay friendly" that is wishful thinking straight out Reddit.
It's equally as dumb to claim the opposite then either, as those people are long dead and we don't know what they would have done in different circumstances and social attitudes. Simply because you're personally biased against "muh liberal troons" and expect historical figures to have been too, doesn't make you correct. The fact of the matter is that socialist countries had observable changing views of sexual relations. In some cases backwards, such as the re-criminalization of homosex under Stalin or the case of Romania and banning abortion. But in most cases they were ahead of their time, decades before the liberal West tried to do it, but worse.
>muh reddit
Yes, please go back from whatever shitty subreddit you came from and stay there.

>>19054
Good night, then!

 No.19056

>>19055
Keep seething, Marx and Lenin said nothing about Homosexuality, Stalin and Mao criminalized it and even if you keep saying that it got better it was never seen as normal on the eastern bloc, contrary to what happened to black people's right and women rights, both of which were actually addressed from a Marxist perspective by the USSR btw.

You will never change the fact that the USSR, the biggest and most powerful socialist country to ever exist didn't like homosexuality and troons and actively suppressed both, you can seethe and cope as much as you like but that will never change, LGBT things were never a part of Marxism and if you thinh this "culture war" then it just means that you didn't read Marx for shit, you're a literal Redditor using the same talking points I would find on any other subreddit.

 No.19057

>>19056
Yes, anon, the USSR was retroactively brought down by the Reddit troonycabal, if only they'd had been more homophobic, socialism would still exist.
>and if you thinh this "culture war"
It is.
>then it just means that you didn't read Marx for shit
What page of Capital can I find Marx's thoughts on the transgender menace? Or is in the Critique of the Gotha Program? Maybe I have the wrong edition?
>you're a literal Redditor using the same talking points I would find on any other subreddit.
I don't even have an account there lol, let alone go there. You, on the other hand, seem to have a lot of experience with that site. What sub got recently banned? I'm sure your pals made an alternate one already, so kindly go back there now.

 No.19058

>>19057
>Yes, anon, the USSR was retroactively brought down by the Reddit troonycabal, if only they'd had been more homophobic, socialism would still exist

I never said that, you're making your own straw man and attacking it (in fact your whole post is a straw man) I did say that the eastern bloc was becoming more liberal in general but that's because they gradually abandoned orthodox Marxism after Stalin.
And I did say that Marx never wrote a thing about Homosexuality, so again I don't understand why gay things are an integral part of Marxism if they were ignored at best and repressed at worst.

 No.19059

>>19058
You have any arguments other than idealism? The fact that you tried an appeal to texts, after first appealing to historical figures, is funny. And adhoming by calling people redditors, when you, YOU are the redditor. You really have no place to talk about strawmen lol. It wasn't one by the way, it was mockery.
>so again I don't understand why gay things are an integral part of Marxism if they were ignored at best and repressed at worst.
Basically nobody here makes that claim, people have different opinions. However intense homophobia and other culture war shit seems to be an integral part of whatever "Marxism" you claim to espouse. Maybe try sounding less like a /pol/jak that jerks off to 1950s USSR instead of 1950s Amerikkka. Run along back to your fbi.gov or Reddit now.

 No.19060

>>19059
My original post >>19045 was about being banned for replying to a OP that literally said "If you don't support troony rights you're not communist" I'm not the one who started the culture war shit, I said an objective, measurable truth and was banned for it.

Then you came and starting again with this "culture war", everything I said here is the objective truth and even if you call it "straw" "culture war" etc doesn't change any of it.

 No.19061

>>19060
>the world was becoming more liberal in general (and that in part caused the collapse of the USSR)
when you unironically think gay people existing collapsed the soviet union

 No.19062

>>19061
I never said that, "liberalism" entails a lot of things, gradual liberalization and decentralization of economy and the Kosygin reforms, less political repression to keep counterrevolutionaries in check, relaxation of the requisites to form part of the CP, and yes relaxation of social relationships caused by western influence.

You're coming up with things that I never said…again.

 No.19063

btw we should FREE GRILL PILL SKITZO based soully on his kremowka posting alone. I am assuming that is him

 No.19064

Do your fucking jobs mod and delete the CP. I can only report. All you have to do is confirm the report.

 No.19065

>>19064
Please be thoughtful and understan that janitors are very busy curating anti-Putin wrongthink to clean such secondary concerns.

 No.19066

>>19054
>>19065
You didn't answer this >>19039 , coward.

 No.19067

>>19066
Ghrah, ok dad, I will answer today, just not now. In short I didn't feel to strongly about that post either way, but let's save that for the reply, I need to reread it and first I need to get some irl shit done.

 No.19068

Mods calling me a pol uyghur for complaining about borderline if not outright transphobia in the stickied get thread lmao

I'm not a wrecker, I came to leftypol two years ago now to get away from the chauvinism and bigotry that dominates 4chan now and it bothers me to see people throwing troon around casually

I am not trans but I am also not white and living in an imperial core country so seeing that kind of behavior permitted makes me wonder if most straight white male communists are just going to throw my ass under the bus, I know online and real life are two different things but I have experienced the same behavior offline and it's so fucking bothersome from people who are supposedly internationalist and believe in solidarity

 No.19069

>>>/leftypol/881013
mods could easily send OP’s dog-brain shower thought thread into oblivion where it belongs but freely choose not to

 No.19072

Ok, so I literally can't post my reply to >>19039 because flood detected; post discarded.
Hopefully this will unfuck itself by morning. Good night.

 No.19082

"How come there are no threads about theory in the catalogue? I thought this board would be for discussing Marxist theory in specifics and how it relates to the world that we live in today. Why is it that nobody wants to do that at all here?"

mods have saged this thread. Wow wonder if this kind of behavior could be connected…

so mods, why is there no theory threads anymore? I thought your style of moderation was impeccable and designed to increase post quality..

oh guess you're all fucking retarded

 No.19083

>>19082
have you tried making theory threads instead of complaining that they're not there?

 No.19084

>>19083
Have you tried arguing against a point instead of deleting a thread?

I’m asking you moderator why you think people do not make such threads? It is because you drove most of the theory heads away, so now conversation about it fruitless, which is why such threads rarely get made, because it’s not worth it

 No.19085

>>19047
explain to me why anyone should take “marxism-leninism” seriously

 No.19086

>>19039
Right, the flood detected; post discarded isn't going away. Maybe it will work if I divide and conquer.

>What you reason

I literally just use the same reason that makes me critically support fascists like Sadam.

>Western media focuses on one side

Maybe because one side literally is the aggresor?
<Oh b-b-but Russia was provoked geopolitically!
Germany in WW1 also was provoked geopolitically due to seething about only getting second rate imperial teritories. I refuse to take "threat to muh imperial sphere" as a provocation. I said before, if we use this logic, Iraq war was just deserts for Sadam because he threatened de-Dollerization which for America as an empire is equivalent of placing nukes in Cuba. All the deaths happening now lie solely on Russia - both deaths of civilians, deaths of Russian soldiers and deaths of Ukranian soldiers. Oh and also deaths of foreign on-the-ground reporters and random foreigners who got in the way. Oh and also quite possibly up to millions of third worlders that gracious anti-imperialist Putin wants to help out by breaking US empire while also causing the greatest food security crisis of our time.

 No.19087

>>19086
>But they are Russians!
And? Aren't you supposed to be the non-bleeding-heart realist here? Death is death and I don't give a shit if its my neighbour or a third-worlder that I'll never know, their lives are equally worthy, and it is equally unjust to propogate a protracted conflict that only causes more death and violance even if you are doing it to deffend your ingroup rather than some far-away peoples.

>Think someone is a westerner

My point was to parrot liberal talking points about US should remain in Afghanistan. And… yeah you kind of made my argument for me? For liberals a foreigner liberal is as much their brother as an expat for a Russian nationalist. And both are fucking spooks, because at the end of the day both the country side of Afghanistan and Ukraine are just as equally human as the urban parts of Afghanistan or LDR DNR.

 No.19088

>>19087
>About refugees
I don't have any sources, however that is the lived reality where I live. There was definetly a large refugee wave in 2014. And every so often you will hear scandals about Ukranian workers getting exploited with their passports confiscated etc.

>NATO expansion

I refuse to take this seriously. So what if NATO expands and encroaches on Russia? For one, NATO isn't bombing anyone, nor is it receiving any economic bonus, only entrenching its geopolitical positions. In short, it means fucking nothing, unless you imagine that suddenly US would start doing Gunboat diplomacy but with nukes in Ukraine to threaten regime change or start funding some Azov terrorist brigades to cross borders to Russia. Only loosers here are Russian imperialist ambitions that get their sphere infringed (not Russia as a state, for whom nothing changes, just Russia the empire) and American tax budget that will now have to fund Ukraine even more.
The reason why this doesn't matter mainly though, is that NATO will NOT collapse unless US collapses. And if anything the invasion just proved to be a rallying cry for NATO due to its soft power that just got gifted a wonderful bloody shirt to wave around by Putin.

>Zelensky doesn't want secession

Yeah, of course he doesn't. Secession peacefully is a very naive solution. And at the end of the day why I critically support Ukraine here is because the alternate reality solution where Ukraine invades and blows up LDR DNR while Russia stands back is a way less leathal sollution than this war that will no doubt end in decades of blood after it due to one or the other side waging terrorist attacks, depending on who comes out on top. Obviously now the best solution is just end the war on a stalemate and, I don't even know, just North Korea it up to prevent terror attacks between the borders. Like, whatever you try now, its still going to be fucked and there is no point to talk about it because it won't change a thing.

 No.19089

>>19088
>It's not Slavs only
>Ukranians are Slavic too
Yeah, that's the big putin shill thing, that the virus or whatever the fuck will wipe out everyone because US is just that evil and schizo. But anyway, literally just go back to that very first announcment by Lavrov. Paraphrasing, but I think it literally was "We have found biolabs in Ukraine used to manufacture chemical weapons, and we have reason to suspect they might be ethnically targeted". So yes, literally anti-Slavium. Also for one I sincerely doubt its even possible to manufacture a weapon that targets a specific ethnicity, and especially one that would only target a range of ethnicities, but not certain similar ethnicites. This is literally Himmler-tier science claims. And this is all without even considering that Russia wouldn't, you know, respond with a MAD response when they literally get targeted by chemical holocaust. Though I guess we assume that those wascally wabbit Americans are too smart and Russian government wouldn't have figured out that something is afoot with a virus that strangely only kills people who drink kvas.

As I said in previous posts, of course US is likely to do bioweapon research, and it would make sense to do it in shitty unregulated countries like Ukraine (or hell, maybe even in my home country?), however you literally enter into saturday morning cartoon territory with this plot to destroy Russia via bioweapons.

 No.19090

>>19089
Ohohoho
AHAHAHAAHA
Oh my god, never change jannoids. I found why flood was detected and post was discarded. Its because I dared to use the word v*tnik. Not even a word filter like is applied to poljacks talking about n-words or insult to certain gender minorities. Nope! Straight up not allowed to post the VULGAR and DISGUSTING slur v*tnik. Oh but don't wory, you can say hohol, polack, amerimutt (don't know if some of these are word-filtered but let's try) russian saboteur, spic, mick, bong, bugman, paki, shitskin, mudslime, turkroach, kebab, chiurka or fish-eater as much as you want! But don't you heckin' dare use the V-word!

 No.19091

>>19090
I've been informed that it was added to (successfully) combat a recent flood of spam from /k/, possibly botposts. The filter seems to have been too broad and should have been removed sooner.

 No.19092

>>>/leftypol/892836
>>>/leftypol/892866
>>>/leftypol/892872
>>>/leftypol/892882
I think it would be good to ban this poster for a short period not explicitly because of the posts linked but because of it being part of a pattern of how angry and disruptive he gets over not understanding something and continuing to shit up the thread over such a lack of understanding. He had it explained to him but didn't like it so decided to tard out (it's not just these 4 posts I just don't want to scour the whole thread and edit the links to them all)
Ukrops get banned for less, he's denying reality and shitting up the thread over it trying to make something into a victory when it's not, and raging at anyone that disagrees. It's not at all conducive to any sort of intelligent discussion about the conflict.

 No.19093

>>19092
Lel. The reddiotoid calling for people to be banned for not being reddit enough. Well let's see how reddit infiltrated the jannie team is.

 No.19094

>>19093
You can justify your spergout by proving that Russia does in fact set the exchange rate for euro to ruble, no need to leave it to chance

 No.19095

File: 1648767929266.png (61.07 KB, 972x281, ClipboardImage.png)

>>19094
>You can justify your spergout by proving that Russia does in fact set the exchange rate for euro to ruble, no need to leave it to chance

Ok. The exchanger always sets the exchange rate. That was kind of easy.

 No.19096

>>19095
The Russian central bank is not the sole holder and exchanger of rubles, and if they artificially set the inflation rate to higher than the actual rate then they will do nothing but hurt themselves.

 No.19097

>>19095
None of this suggests it isn't market rate, which is what made you tard out for a substantial amount of time

 No.19098

>>19097
Where is the suggestion it is market rate you fucking retard reddit fag?

 No.19099

>>19098
Given that they're a financial institution, the default assumption is that they exchange currencies at market value. The onus is on you to prove otherwise.

 No.19100

>>19099
>Given that they're a financial institution, the default assumption is that they exchange currencies at market value. The onus is on you to prove otherwise.
Read the image in:
>>19095

 No.19101

>>19089
Ngl but thinking a virus can be manufactured that only targets certain ethnicites is /pol/tier race “science” and misunderstanding of biology

 No.19102

>>19100
This is why you should be banned, you are literally too stupid to understand what you're incredibly mad about, and the mods are fags for letting you shit your pants about it
Show us proof of Russia overpaying for a single ruble

 No.19103

>>19092
>>19093
holy shit just stop spamming this irrelevant discussion and the report log and /meta/
you don't need to escalate this to a mod issue, just log off for a day you motherfuckers

 No.19104

>>19103
There is no spamming on my part, I had to submit two reports because you retards think a report should be able to be written on the pin of a needle

 No.19105

File: 1648770138511-0.png (5.72 KB, 492x85, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1648770138511-1.png (47.98 KB, 914x338, ClipboardImage.png)

>>19103
Why was this guy banned and deleted when mr refuses to shut up when he doesn't know how currencies work, proceeds to shit up the thread, wasn't? Why shouldn't the issue be brought here?

 No.19106

>>19105
cause he is a bad faith ban-evader

 No.19115



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