Hello everyone, now that we've settled in here a bit more, it's time to address the burning questions of constitutional reform! Until now we have been playing it fast and loose, lets say, with the old Bunkerchan rules, but they are clearly no longer apropos.96 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.
The key issue we would like to discuss is the internal administrative structure. As of now, we have been attempting to use mostly horizontal democratic organisation (among mods), however this has had some notable lapses and issues, and some would like to use a more 'traditional' hierarchical structure with admins at the top, moderators in the middle, and janitors on the bottom, or just admins and moderators. The advantage of having admins with executive power is primarily to cut through deadlock, which has been a real problem since our migration. That said, perhaps there are other ways to deal with that.
Another proposal is the question of user democracy and more involvement of users without volunteer status in decisionmaking. This is a good idea in theory but in practice it is difficult to agree on how to move forward with it. Should users have direct voting power? If so, how will this be implemented and to what extent? Can the moderators override the users and if so in what circumstances? Should users be vetted (ie through Matrix) in order to ensure that the vote is not totally skewed by sockpuppets? If so doesn't that privilege people who use off-site communication unfairly? As you can see, it is a difficult subject, but interesting nonetheless.
One more issue is over who is and isn't allowed to post on leftypol, ideologically speaking. Mostly everyone can agree that this board should be for 'the left' but what does that mean exactly? Who is included and who is not in that definition? While I'm sure everyone will agree that 'orthodox leftism' should be allowed, there is ambiguity over what that means at the boundaries. Are anprims allowed? Post-colonialists? Anarcho-nihilists? Juche proponents, or Pol-potists? How about social democrats? And so on. To what extent are non-leftists allowed? Do they have the same 'rights' as leftist posters or are they treated harsher?
I have attached the most up to date version of the old constitution, which some of us think should be simply adapted to the new circumstances. On the other hand, some vols have proposed a new constitution altogether which I will attach below. There is also the option of throwing all of these out and working on something else, so please let your opinion be known. Per the vote on this topic internally, some moderators will be posting with their names displayed, and others may choose to post 'anonymously' (ie. still visible as a moderator but with no name attached).
The Bunkerchan manifesto: attached as PDF.
The 'new proposal' constitution:
"ARTICLE 1: OUR MISSION
/leftypol/ is a collective of people dedicated to non-sectarian discussion of politics and current events from a politically incorrect left-wing perspective. To facilitate this mission, both technical and moderation staff are needed, in order to create the website, maintain the software, the server, etc., and moderate content by deleting spam.
These staff members are required to have privileged positions above normal users in order to perform their duties. However this also comes with a responsibility to not abuse their powers and act in good faith to push forward the mission of leftypol by:
• Attracting users to the website – continuously growing the userbase while also maintaining a suitable board culture.
• Recruiting staff – adequately recruiting technical and moderation staff to perform functions necessary to the mission at hand. This includes removing staff members who abuse their power or are otherwise harmful to the mission.
• Miscellaneous functions – Carrying out any other tasks related to the mission of /leftypol/ while respecting feedback from the user base.
ARTICLE 2: THE STANDARD POLITICAL PROCESS
Proposals – In order to vote on an idea for a technical or political change to leftypol, it must be first proposed. A proposal must get at least two upvotes from people other than the proposer to proceed to the voting stage.
Voting – All decisions are made by direct vote of the current moderation staff. The voting period will be 72 hours, or, 3 days. Votes pass instantly with 50% of the vote or greater (except where downvotes are equal to votes). Nonvoting is counted as an ‘abstain’. At the end of the voting period those votes with more upvotes than downvotes are considered to have passed, even with a plurality.
Special Voting Categories – Certain types of votes are exempted from normal guidelines. Votes to create a thread to facilitate user feedback on certain issues are exempted from the proposal phase and can be voted on directly. The voting period for feedback threads is 12 hours instead of 72. Optionally, other categories of proposals can be designated as exempted by the modocracy through the standard process.
ARTICLE 3: SPECIAL GOVERNANCE CATEGORIES
Technology Team – also known as the tech team, those responsible for running/maintaining the website and all things technical. The tech team reserves the right to grant themselves special administrative powers on the website in order to perform their technical duties. The tech team also has the right to receive and act on technical feedback directly from the users with regards to bugs and minor feature requests. The leader of the technology team has the right to hire and fire members of the tech team without direct feedback from the modocracy. The leader of the tech team is the member who owns, pays for, and thereby assumes the legal risk of running the web server(s) for the website. The leader(s) of the tech team and corresponding stewardship of tech resources can be transferred via the normal political/voting process. Members of the tech team do not have the right to vote unless they are also moderators. Major technical changes and scheduled downtime are still subject to the standard political process.
Executive Committee – Upon an optional direct vote, for purposes of convenience, the modocracy may choose to appoint a temporary committee of administrators. There must be exactly 3 administrators. During the period of administrative rule, all voting and decision powers are given to the administrators (except hiring/firing staff which still requires a direct vote of the modocracy). Administrators govern by a direct internal vote. Administrators do not have to abide by any waiting periods for voting and also may vote on issues directly, bypassing the proposal phase. Normal moderators continue their duties in spam cleaning. The modocracy defines the start and end date of the period of administrative rule, and chooses which 3 staff members will act as administrator using the normal political process. This period may not exceed 90 days.
ARTICLE 4: CONTENT MODERATION POLICY
Content moderation policy defines clearly what types of content should be deleted, edited, and under what circumstances users should be banned, and for how long. Moderators should only moderate content in accordance with this policy and moderating outside the parameters of this policy should be considered an abuse. A detailed content moderation policy should be created and updated from time to time, taking into account feedback from the users. The moderation policy is created by the modocracy (or administrators).
ARTICLE 5: MODOCRATIC CENTRALISM
Any outreach to the userbase by the staff must first be approved by the normal political process. Outreach includes posting of internal mod drama, or any revealing of information that would have an impact on the optics of leftypol. Violating this policy is grounds for disciplinary action upon direct vote of the modocracy."
Like it or not, that is probably the best solution to the idpol question.
Most of the "idpol" related threads I see on here and before on bunkerchan are threads made by people, not unlike yourself, who radlibs living rent-free in their head, so a containment thread for that shit seems like the only viable option short of automatic bans. I mean really, there is more bitching about non-existent idpol on this site than actual idpol.
most of it is posted in unrelated threads and you fucks don't do shit so you can go fuck yourself with this bullshit
>>3682>let's just recreate /idpol/ as a board
why not just go full out and call it /troon/? while you're at it, since you wanted to have talks with bunker to undo the split, give pyongyang the sole moderation privilege on it?
not only do you give them a footstep (posts), you argue to give them entire regions (boards)
So why exactly are you so opposed to a containment board?
you fucks can do whatever you want, and you already do and will continue so
what you should do is stop pretending you are not kissing /pol/ ass, you opportunistic useless fucks
They don't work and the people who post in them don't deserve to be here until they unfuck their brains
>owned by the posters
You mean "by me".
Not every poster wants to be a namefag and have to log in on your private space to have a heard opinion.
What this will create is your own clique to start drama and declare yourself representative of "the boards users".
>Lastly, there are posters from both boards in there
I'm saying this as somebody who has been here since before this place even existed:
This is meaning you and "pyongyang". Factionalism by incels and wreckers.
That your ass isn't banned yet is a sign of things to come your ilk is yet again cooking up and being allowed to fester thanks to their liberalism. You couldn't be any more obvious about what you really are pushing for.
Fuck leftypol mods.
We do not endorse Sage, we simply choose to allow his experiment. Don't use his chat if you think it's a bad idea.
this is a thread about the constitution, not a general /meta/ thread. stay on topic please
>/leftypol/ is an anonymous community of non-sectarian leftists united in common cause against the forces of capitalism, fascism, and liberalism.
this makes it sound too much like we're for left unity. non-sectarian means the moderation doesn't take sides ala old board owner, not that leftists aren't allowed to attack each other. we are more disunited in common cause.
>Leftism shall be henceforth defined as:“A broad set of ideological forces which are dedicated to, by one form or another, dismantling the current material way of things in capitalism and building a new communist one to replace it.”
>The broad tenants of a communist society are outlined in many works of more import than this, but briefly the goals of a communist society are the dissolution of the class divide, social and material emancipation for the whole of humanity, the eventual dissolution of the state, and ending labor as a material venture and returning it to the common people as a taskto be taken at their leisure. These goals may executed upon on any reasonable timescale and still be adequatelycalled “communist”.
my particular brand of socialism is non-ideological and anti-communist, i am still a leftist and have as much right to be around leftypol as tankies and the like. not all leftism is communism. be more broad and general
>>3697>my particular brand of socialism is non-ideological and anti-communist
It’s non ideological but it is defined by an antagonism to an ideology? Seems pretty ideological to me
>The immediategoals of /leftypol/ may change, but its central mission has always remained: provide an open space for discussionof topics related to leftism and understanding the processes and goings-on of the world through a dialectical and materialist lens.
Far too sectarian. What about idealist comrades? and those that don't buy into dialectics?
>Article 3:The Alt-Board Clause
>The mission statement is allowed to deviate from /leftypol/’s but must still hold the central tenants of upholding a leftist position and fostering good-faith discussion of the topics contained within the board
Going by these rules the only alt-board we have, /dead/, would have to be punted. As post-leftism is against all those specifications in the first two articles. Language must be broadened
>>3697>this makes it sound too much like we're for left unity
a little bit of yes, a little bit of no. we are for left unity but not against intra-leftist critique, just not baseless shitflinging.>be more broad and general
I'd have to ask you to comment on exactly how to do that, I've never heard anyone call themselves "anti-ideological". Ideology infests everything, its a fact of life imho.>>3699>What about idealist comrades? and those that don't buy into dialectics?
How about<The immediategoals of /leftypol/ may change, but its central mission has always remained: provide an open space for discussionof topics related to leftism and understanding the processes and goings-on of the world through critique of capitalist society and production, as well as all else resulting from it.
actually how about this>Leftism shall be henceforth defined as:“A broad set of ideological forces which are dedicated to, by one form or another, dismantling the current material way of things in capitalism and advancing society into a new epoch and mode of production, most primarily communism but not at the exclusion of other left-ideological forces.”
more accurately for this board "leftism" would be described as opportunistic dicksucking for /pol/ approval
oh. It's another radlib finds the site and mischaracterises us only to leave in smug ignorance episode. Yey.
>>3695>rights>on a website
do jannoids really?(YOU'RE RIGHT, RIGHTS ARE SPOOKS :^))
There should be a brigade of imageboard Red Guards that constantly revolutionizes the boards.
Everyone that does not second this is a shitty marxist and even worse human being
I'd say for first, continue treating chuds with harshness, be ban happy if you see them shit up threads. If there is no measure to counteract reactionaries, this imageboard will only end up becoming another /pol/, like what happened with bunkerchan. This happens because there are way too many of them, way too many. For the quality of this board to stay at least decent, just continue banning any chuds you see. If you are not harsh on them, it will leave a precedent that they are merely just "joking" in order to mask their /pol/ trash that they want to peddle, thus they won't get banned and their reactionary shit will influence other leftists to reactionary thought, and it may even lead them to start browsing /pol/ for that same rhetoric.
Second. Allow any type of leftist, as long as they aren't nazbol or nazbol tier. Socdems are fine because you can radicalize them and they don't tend to be reactionary.
agreed. maga dipshits, Qcumbers, and fash all tend to be petty booj or NEEET and not really worth even attempting to radicalize, especially considering how many you will alienate by welcoming them.
don't be like biden. don't try to reconcile to the unhinged right wing.
completely agreed, which is why I'm wondering why the fuck that leninhat anti-vax dumbass is still not banned. he isn't arguing in good faith and isn't funny like some of the pet nazis we had. the dude's just fucking retard - he single-handedly derails entire threads.
He's been banned quite a few times actually, I think he just ban evades to post here.
soy reeks from your spampost
the people talking about "politburos" and having electoral systems in place are absolute larpers
This. Imagine not just letting individual mods do whatever they want all the time.
Oh and I posted them for feedback obviously, so please go ahead and let me know what you think.
sounds good, but we don't have a public board log yet I don't think ?
cool, now link it on the front page
FIX POSTING IMAGES FROM MOBILE FOR FUGGSAKE
We are looking into this, can you tell us more about the issue? What browser and what operating system are you using?
iOS (14.4.2, although the issue has existed in previous versions too), and the built in Safari browser.
In the post it will let me click “Select/drop/paste”, and then prompts me pick a picture from my album which I do. But the picture does not show up in the attached files tab prior to posting, and after posting it’s like no picture was attached to begin with. I remember it being like that for a while on the old board before being fixed. Thanks for looking into it.
I’m using an iPhone Xr and the Safari browser app.
To add to this, I’ve figured out choosing from Files (“Browse…” option) works problem free. Only photo library doesn’t.
Thanks, I will get the tech team to follow up on this and try fix it.
Anyway, on topic, we are now voting on whether or not to approve the version of the constitution/manifesto that I proposed here.>>3875
I understand that it is not as radical a document as some people were hoping for but I believe that it is a good middle ground between user input/mod accountability and stability. Also it could still be rejected by the other moderators of course.
Just reviewed it looks good tell us how the vote goes
The new constitution has now PASSED! While there may be more changes in the future, and we will continue to experiment with user democracy, I am glad that we have a solid base to build on in the future and a ruleset firmly established for leftypol.org.
Thanks to everyone for your involvement!