The "products of their time" reasoning is hokum, used to justify the current, liberal, and dominant culture as further progressed than whatever came before by function of de facto educating its subjects into being more open minded. My point was exactly that this is ahistoric and, as already pointed out, that the labour movement has always been the spearhead of what later became social justice topics (because liberalism is nothing but capitalist catch-up on social topics, such as anti-racism, queer politics, etc).
And no, that is not an opinion: it is the historic record. Again: sad that you can not discern the two but that is what imageboards do to your brain.>>309866>>309877
Just a petite moron who confuses inane screeching with intellect.
>>311233>The "products of their time" reasoning is hokum
Is it asking too much that you had simply said that in the first place, rather than just using liberal like a snarl term and leaving it to speculation? Because that's an interesting point that would've been much more fun to talk about.
My post wasn't talour made for your consciousness, as is no post here. Or anywhere. What a bizarre line of reasoning.
Also fuck you, not only did I make that point: liberalism SHOULD be used in bitter contempt. Why would I have anything but contempt for the culture machinations of my oppressors?!
Using liberal with the weight of calling someone a redditor is counter productive to that end. You should feel *way more contempt* towards liberals than to use the word in a way that makes it seem like an unserious accusation.
>>311236>My post wasn't talour made for your consciousness, as is no post here. Or anywhere. What a bizarre line of reasoning.
Yes, especially bizarre given that anon didn't say anything resembling that.
lame as it sounds, I'm here in good faith. >>311203>>>311011>>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?>Trans people are an oppressed minority, there is often lacking good medical research, the "Standards of Care" in many advanced countries is woefully out of date. Unironically if you want the most advanced healthcare you have to ignore your local healthcare institutions and do international research online then demand that the doctor give you what you want, and if they refuse, find another doctor
>Half the time the doctor literally ends up saying "we're not sure if this is the best but we can do it if you want" because nobody gives a fuck about doing medical research on trans healthcare because trans people are treated like garbage
>Stop saying "narrative" and "ideology" it's a TYPE OF PERSON.
That can't be the message to parents though. This issue is dominating the discourse ffs. Where are the medical authorities giving official guidance? People barely trust any authority around here after the contradictory shitshow handling of covid, and you want them to accept this for their children based on….what? >>311204
>>>311104>>End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted? >Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history, stop pushing this bullshit idea that trans rights are some western US concept
Fully agree that trans people have existed throughout history. The trans rights campaign of the last 15 years is absolutely a US concept imo, and has been co-opted by elements of the US establishment for geopolitical ends.
There are many things unique to the US that are not welcome in other countries. The opiate crisis, the massive over prescription of SSRIs, the largest incarcerated population in the world…it goes on. The US tries to push it's ideologies globally and if history had just stayed stopped, it might have worked.>>311206
>>>311104>>The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.>Convert to weight or strength class based brackets. Top athletes are already genetic outliers that have biological advantages over the rest of the competition and the general competition. Why is it trans people being singled out? If it was a real issue we'd see trans women winning sports competitions at rates exceeding their small percentage of the population, but we are NOT seeing that. Instead just a few isolated incidents that right wing media picks up on to demonize us.
I agree that sport is in itself bullshit, the whole thing is a ridiculous spectacle. I watch a bullshit sport where the officials actively manipulate the game to engineer final minute drama. People here love it and just won't change their entire conception of it without the government coming out and enforcing trans participation in the way the trans community wants it.
Fundamentally, I guess I'm saying that people here are gonna need some authoritative societal organizations to come out and definitively state to parents with children in education what the reality is.
Maybe I should state my ideal world:
Absolutely full rights and equality and protection from discrimination for trans people.
Trans men are men, trans women are women. Trans people whose personal history might confer a perceived athletic advantage will understand that they don't compete until body modification tech has improved.
A government administered system where puberty blockers are only prescribed to children with a long history of dysphoria.
>>305387>concern trolling over a clearly sarcastic shitpost
>>311204>Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history
Damn this is some schizoshit
They're afraid of the notion that the cavewoman tradwife of their dreams might've had a dick under her loincloth.
I don't know about Ancient times, but I recall the existence of a XVIIth century book by a Dutch man of law compiling various curious cases, among them a lawcase where someone's testament was cancelled because they were deemed insane for being born male but identifying as a woman.
Why do people on this site conflate us with liberals and western imperialists?
>>311525>Shit posting right wing idpol and getting called out on it then saying its just a joke
Congratz you fooled us into thinking you're retarded
they don't know enough homosexuals and
overintake of edgy memes and twitter screencaps have ruined their perception of reality
this is oriented towards people in the US
You literally can't have any trans person come up in the news on the main board without someone endlessly arguing about how they're liberal and western imposed and delusional. It's exhausting, I'm not even trans.
It's all very tiring
This is the point of both liberal and rightoid propaganda, however you delineate the two categories.
I call this the schizo glow complex
Main board is becoming a reactionary sinkhole that is only communist in the superficial and self-flattering sense.
Posting should require captchas that ask you a random trivia question about Marxism
Is it a coincidence how all "Schizoposting" all just seems to further rightiod aims?
The problem is that people won't let go of "anti-IdPol" and pretend like every year is 2016.
No, actually they are very pro-idpol, it's just anti-lgbt idpol, but they like to pretend idpol only means pro-lgbt "idpol" which isn't even idpol but rather accurate descriptions of reality.
This is part of the flaw of bourgeois democracy, that public support even matters on these issues. No, you don't get to take away people's rights based on your own opinion even if you're the majority. How do we protect people targeted by ignorance majority masses?
Eh, some of the "anti-idpol" is well founded and an intuitive response against class warfare, even if wrapped in language that appears counter-productive. To throw a blanket mark on all of it, is to throw out the proverbial baby (as the mods do frequently).
To be honest I don't know what is to be done at this point. This shit has been going on almost since /leftypol/s inception, and has been increasing in impudence linearly with the distance to /pol/. I'm highly skeptical the recent batch of mods also didn't include a number of reactionaries (going by experience, there), but I guess we will see.
On the other hand, it's not like this fucking thrash heap of a site is worth preserving. Honestly people here might be better off branching off.>>312945
I made a post about how the perception that reactionary positions are supported by the proletariat is a bourgeois misconception, as those are the opinions of an unorganized and not class-conscious mass. But the mods deleted it, so I guess it isn't a /leftypol/ Approved(tm) opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯>>312931
Anon, almost nobody would be left to post.
Let's do it!
>>312947>I made a post about how the perception that reactionary positions are supported by the proletariat is a bourgeois misconception, as those are the opinions of an unorganized and not class-conscious mass. But the mods deleted it, so I guess it isn't a /leftypol/ Approved(tm) opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wow sounds like a great post, any theory links that informed it?
>>312947>Honestly people here might be better off branching off.
Where? I don't even know of anywhere. Maybe just real life instead.
I'm sure there's an inordinately tech-wise furry on here somewhere.>>312948
Lifted (almost) straight from Marx' letters.
Its not much better when its gay guys either tbh.
I remember That One Thread when a patriot front guy tried to shoot up a parade somewhere in the midwest not too long ago and the article made a typo making the reader think the guy came out as gay irl (he is a straight married guy) and the whole thread was spamming Le Gorky quote and deversing pol tier homophobia.
Why does every pride flag look like pure shit? The trans flag is the least ugly and it still sucks it look like a candy bar
Because your fight for equal rights and protection from discrimination has been co-opted by western porky and the MIC as a tool to maintain hegemony imo. Your fight has become a convenient wedge issue for both sides, like women's right and abortion in the past.
if ziggers make roosia fagland I will abandon my principled internationalism
>>305526>>309949>>310022>bourgeoisie degenerates participate in bourgeoisie degeneracy
Masculinity and femininity are bourgeoisie.
the word filter converting transgender into transhumanist is BS
wait does it not apply on siberia?
The word filter is 7r4nny > transhumanist. Transgender isn't filtered.
How do you guys deal with how our existence is some debate somehow rather than just a thing people learn about then move on with their lives? I swear even on this site where we'd expect communists to be the most advanced proletariat, instead there are tons of people who spread bullshit misinformation about us
Sure class is paramount, but there's something to these marginalized positions where the majority of people don't even understand us. This applies to other groups too clearly but I can't speak for them. I feel there must be some responsibility among ourselves to push for our own rights rather than assume the abolition of class will solve everything. How can it when even those who claim to want to abolish class still believe misinformation bullshit about us?
The "Economically Left but actually reactionary" crowd is malding in the Cuba referendum thread. Funny how they now vocally condemn Cuba from their armchairs like the radlibs they oppose.>>312947
What we need to do is look at that the "anti-idpol left" has been so far and from what I've seen, its mostly produced a bunch of right-opportunists who want to appeal to the lowest and most reactionary common denominator. Instead of working to overcome these beliefs and attitudes, they would have us embrace such beliefs in the name of "appealing to the working class." They would have one think that anybody who what LGBT+ automatically gets a nice job and an apartment in a gentrified neighborhood when they come out, instead of facing ostracism at best.
It is unfortunate, however I'm happy my existence makes homophobes seethe, resentment is a two way street.
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