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siberia archives


File: 1662363488458.png (1.31 KB, 245x152, flag.png)

 No.305161[Last 50 Posts]

/LGBTGQIA+/ general thread. NO reactionaries allowed

Thread for discussing LGBTQIA+ liberation. All reactionaries MUST lurk rather than spread their bullshit

Thank you :)

 No.305166

what exactly does alphabet liberation look like?

 No.305170

>>305166
Firstly it would look like proletarian liberation since as with all subgroups of people they are mostly proletariat. After all we are the most numerous and productive class as Marx said.

But some issues exist which are specific to LGBTQIA+ people therefore they need some additional requirements beyond cishet people:

Widespread education (ceasing of the biological subgroup cultural genocide), social unacceptability of lgbtqia+phobias, unfounded bigotry, calls to political action to remove their rights not allowed. Universal healthcare and no discrimination allowed in healthcare, or any other areas of public life. Ceasing of violence and death being allowed against LGBTQIA+ people for various reasons, worldwide. Ceasing of all discriminations against them for any reason. Some places still require forced sterilization for trans people to change their gender markets, which is a requirement for getting healthcare and living life in areas with higher discrimination. I can't speak for everyone though

https://www.workers.org/lgbtq-oppression/

 No.305173


Uhmmmm…. don't you mean 2SLGBTQIA++? This is native ameircan erasure you reactionary piece of shit

 No.305175

>>305173
>2SLGBTQIA++?
Thanks anon this is such a great idea :)

 No.305181

fun fact this is paraphrased from Capital

 No.305183

>>305180
>>305181
queen shit

 No.305185

Dropping my favorite homo song by straight guys.

 No.305192

>>305189
>>305191
I am OP and I report every single LGBTQIA+phobic post. This is not a shitposting thread retard.

 No.305193

>>305192
Bruh are you trolling with that acronym though? For real when do the letters stop. We know you won't stop finding knew orientations. Why don't you guys just drop the acronym and just invent a catch all term?

 No.305196

>>305193
I'm not some representative of "you guys" there is not any "you guys" it's not some organized group of people lmao. It's a bunch of proles forced into wage labor.

 No.305200

No discipline, OP

 No.305201

>>305193
"queer" covers it basically
and its fun to call them "queers" and to not get in trouble for it anymore

 No.305207

>>305196
You still got the memo about adding QIA+ somehow.

 No.305211

File: 1662367234787.png (1.06 MB, 1501x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

You can't have 8 letter acronyms. I will die on this hill.

 No.305214

Can an acronym be longer than 26 letters?

Vote now: https://strawpoll.com/polls/2ayLWKp5WZ4

 No.305225

File: 1662368531844.jpeg (Spoiler Image, 7.27 KB, 300x168, images (8).jpeg)

Reactionaries will be ball gagged until they accept lgbtqinpq1a+.

This is what true communism is about

 No.305226

>>305225
reactionaries don’t deserve something as fun as that. they’ll just be shipped off to an island to fill in coloring books or somesuch

 No.305238

>>305234
having sex > porn

 No.305239

>>305238
would anyone disagree?

 No.305241

>>305239
porn reinforces a cishet-centered sexual convention
pornographic film as we know it today was created as a response to sexual liberation in the 60s and 70s where there were new advanced contraceptive medicines and the removal of sexual barriers for financial and other freedoms as well as LGBTQ pride

 No.305242


 No.305243

>>305241
i dont see why other groups cant just make their own porn studios
u can get an hd camera for like a couple hundred bucks these days

 No.305247

>>305243
no point when you can create actual sex
only hets are alienated and repressed enough to need sex to be staged, recorded and replayed over and over again

 No.305248

File: 1662373048476-0.png (1.37 MB, 1920x1080, 1662178975381-0.png)

File: 1662373048476-1.png (752.71 KB, 1920x1080, 1662178975381-2.png)

File: 1662373048476-2.png (503.97 KB, 1920x1080, 1662178975381-3.png)

>>305245
You're thinking of the wrong group of guys, anon, that'd be the fascists who like CP so much, not the gays. hope this clears things up.

 No.305254

>>305248
>british fascist
<unibrow
<receded chin
<unformed body
<england shirt
<pedo
it all checks out
only thing missing is face tattoos

 No.305255

File: 1662373438578-0.png (581.48 KB, 1920x1080, 1662178975381-4.png)

File: 1662373438578-1.png (561.02 KB, 1920x1080, 1662178975381-1.png)

>>305251
All fascists are nonces.

 No.305260

what is the difference between asexual and aromantic

 No.305261

>>305181
wait for real?

 No.305288

What an amazing thread

This is truly what communism is about in the 21st century. Thanks to the mods for preventing hate speech and wrong think(you got it 👍)

 No.305366

File: 1662402794775.jpg (Spoiler Image, 2.76 MB, 2214x3231, 5ca7fc69608e4d819a4bb46e70….jpg)

How many dicks would a woodchuck suck if a woodchuck could suck dick?

 No.305387

>>305288
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO
>/leftypol/ is supposed to hate le gays!
>anti-idpol is when you embrace right-wing discrimination, not when you oppose it!
Reminder to all that people who defend discriminatory policies within AES countries are being anti-dialectical and forgetting the historical context in which these policies existed, as well as the nature of history as something which develops. If someone is being a reactionary "socialist," be sure to correct them not on moralistic liberal grounds, but on being bad communists.

 No.305390

>>305387
pretty based for a narco

 No.305409

How does this thread have less posts now than it did before I went to sleep 8 hours ago?

 No.305420

>>305409
mods clapping cheeks of people malding about the thread

 No.305421

/siberia/ stop making bait for stupidpolyps challenge

 No.305424

>>305420
>anarchist
>simping for those with power because they're pro-LGBT
Every time.

 No.305428

>>305424
Internet forum moderator, especially at a forum this small of scale, is not a coercively powerful position in any politically meaningful way. A landscaper is not a tyrant for choosing to pull weeds so flowers can grow.

 No.305429

>>305428
Flowers are sissies?

 No.305436

>>305431
>Having a 15 year old boy at your house most weekends is suspect, having him at a bathhouse is not.

You realize homosexuality was illegal in most of the US until a couple decades ago, right?
Also, gay bath houses are 18+, you're not even allowed in the door without ID…
your "theory" here makes zero sense. During the time when bath house culture emerged, famous straight rockstars were fucking underage groupies and that was more widely acceptable than being gay. Being gay was the thing people had more pressure to hide.

 No.305439

>>305431
kys hetoid
>>305429
das rite

 No.305440

>>305424
>statement of fact is simping
lol
It would be cool if there was a practical way of having mods and jannies selected by sortition or something, but that isn't the case unfortunately. Moderation is a necessary evil otherwise the site would be overrun with /pol/ and might-as-well-be-/pol/ shitting up every thread and board.

 No.305441

>>305431
The belief about gays being pedo hedonists was because of hetero guys.
Ironically, its the straight guys that are preying on the little ones.

Also, 15 yo isnt pedophilia but hebephilia big difference although still predatory.

Married conservative men are especially a HUGE RED FLAG.

 No.305452

>>305443
>That doesn't matter in this case.

Yeah it does. What are you talking about?

>Firstly, I've never went to one. Secondly, I really don't see how that matters - especially at a point in time where a 9 year old could buy a pack of Marlboros without question.


Dude, you don't have to go to one to understand that they're adult establishments.
Also the latter thing not only makes no sense, it isn't strictly true - most states had smoking age laws in the '70s as far as I can tell, and attitudes towards cigarettes were also way more lax than they were towards "sodomy," which was broadly illegal.

>This goes hand-in-hand with >>305441 says. I don't consider pedophiles, and by that I mean le "hebephiles" as well, to be either straight or gay. They do not express attraction to assured secondary sex characteristics, so therefore they are not of the same sexuality as one who is straight or gay.


This has nothing to do with what I wrote though. Within the culture of that era, fucking underage females' was mostly acceptable if you were a man, fucking underage males'' was not. Your whole "theory" about bathhouses makes literally no sense because of this. It's a figment of your imagination, it doesn't mesh with the history at all or the material conditions surrounding it - it's akin to if someone were to posit a theory that gyms exist because of dogfuckers, it's complete nonsense.

 No.305453

Like, why do gyms exist?
Does it make sense for a bunch of people perhaps even hundreds at a time (!!!) to go into a building just to "work out"?
No, it must be so they can fuck dogs, which I presume is allowed inside of gyms. That must be what gyms exist for!

Fucking ridiculous.

 No.305456

Ban what i don't like.

 No.305458

Who else thinks should organize a /leftypol/ transbian orgy?

and NO men or chasers allowed!

 No.305460

File: 1662417259810.png (308.43 KB, 427x395, the gay community?!.png)

What are your views on the following statement:
"The progress flag was a mistake. The plain rainbow flag should be considered to represent the entire spectrum of alphabet movements. If you want to bring attention to a specific subset of the + community, hoist a second flag,"

 No.305462

File: 1662417442115.png (4.77 MB, 2327x1456, ClipboardImage.png)

>>305460
100%. Even OP didn't use that ugly flag even though he added the QIA+.

This shit is an abomination and a scam to sell you a new flag every year.

 No.305463

>>305462
Also as a Black man I don't like being on the flag. That's fucked up. Why do we have to be one of the two homo races? Is the yellow going to represent Asians now? Is the White stripe for White people.

 No.305464

>>305460
It represents the total cooption by liberals. But it doesn't matter.
feels (how the flag makes you feel) < reals (everything that affects people in concrete ways)

 No.305465

File: 1662417856133.jpg (44.59 KB, 529x667, E8Ctf6sXsAgQRjF.jpg)

>>305463
Well aren't you a rebellious little buck… I think a good breaking session is in order, that should clear things up.

 No.305466

>>305465
Mods I'm not /pol/ I am just meme-ing don't worry!

 No.305467

>>305466
fear not, the 'fun allowed' janny is on shift for the next half hour.

 No.305468

>>305460

Total agreement. Even a lot of gay & trans ppl I know irl who have any opinion on it at all are either indifferent or see it as dumb. Not that nobody genuinely likes it - I'm sure there are people who like it who aren't running a grift… but it seems like it's mostly just tolerated because the flag shit is kind of unimportant so who cares if people fall for this bullshit?

As for me, though, yeah - it undermines the symbolism… rainbows are fundamentally inclusive to begin with, the colors don't represent specific ethnic groups, they represent diversity, harmony, and mutual tolerance. "Rainbow, plus also here's a specific stripe for the black people, and here's a stripe for the trans people, oh let's add a latino stripe" deprives the rainbow itself of symbolic meaning and looks stupid on top of that.

 No.305469

>>305467
Basedbasedbased thanks janny 😄

 No.305470

>>305463
>Is the White stripe for White people.

Lol unironically you have a point there. Adding a specific stripe section for the trans pride flag right next to the brown people stripes sends a really mixed message from a design perspective. Although then again, so does adding separate stripes for specific groups at all.

 No.305471

Wait holy fucking shit. They put a black stripe and brown stripe for black/brown people, then they put a pink and white stripe for white trans people… and separating the two new stripe pairings they put a blue line. Lmfao.

 No.305472

File: 1662418566856.jpg (Spoiler Image, 32.85 KB, 900x554, fixed.jpg)

>>305471
The made sure to represent the most oppressed group right now.

 No.305474


 No.305475

>>305473
>MAP

Literally never. That shit started on 4chan.
Furries and cucks - there are probably versions with this on them already lol. There are definitely furry versions. Those are unlikely to gain traction tho outside of the little niches.

 No.305476

Reminder to antinous: if you don't plan on getting SRS you are not actually trans and just a male with a gender fetish.

 No.305477

>>305475
>Literally never. That shit started on 4chan.
There's a whole community of unironic MAPs on twitter now, the movement seems to be gaining some traction.

 No.305478

>>305477
>There's a whole community of unironic MAPs on twitter now

I believe that there are people on twitter who will claim to be unironic MAPs. The first time I ever saw it was people on 4chan claiming to be unironic MAPs, and it was really obvious to me that it was a really clumsy op.

 No.305480

>>305463
I like to call that flag the pride *parade* flag. The individual pride flags do just fine for the tasks of covering everything individually. Making it into a quilt with all of them is just a crime to vexilology.

Mods since you're in this thread, pls add webp support. I had to convert this.

 No.305481

>>305480
>webp

Literal satan.

 No.305482

Embedding error.
>>305478
I admit that it was an op originally but it's been turned into a serious idea. You even have academics using the terminology.

 No.305483

>>305478
>The first time I ever saw it was people on 4chan
I would suspect [with no evidence whatsoever] it probably came from an obscure pedo forum or board and gained exposure on 4chan as a frozen peaches gateway to the mainstream.

 No.305487

>QIA
>+
A bit of a stretch, don't you think?

 No.305491

File: 1662419851134-0.jpg (8.29 KB, 182x277, images.jpg)

File: 1662419851134-1.png (391 B, 290x174, index.png)

Is the agender flag the Ben 10 colors on purpose? Like I know what the colors represent, I used to be agender, but the fact that both the black and white mean 'absence of gender' makes me think it's intentionally the Ben 10 colors.

 No.305492

>>305483
4chan reactionaries falsely accusing LGBT people of being pedophiles when everyone knows the real pedos are on 4chan

 No.305494

>>305476
I'm already transitioning. Thanks for asking.
>>305480
Yeah yeah, I'll get to it eventually.

 No.305495

>>305487
The acronym is just kind of silly and internally redundant. What is the best one-word term? Who will get mad at, for example, 'queer'?

 No.305496

>>305482

I can believe that somebody would fall for it, a guy from a college somewhere included, but I don't think there's much actual momentum behind it. The trajectory of the past half century of sexual movements has been towards considering consent as the foremost question wrt sex, which resulted in both AOCs going up and in homosexuality being legalized. Weird fringes have always existed, but there are honestly probably less of them now than there used to be.

>>305483

I'm pretty sure it just came from /pol/. Iirc there was a thread about coining it to discredit gays but I could be misremembering on that detail. The first posts "advocating for it" that I saw absolutely had the classic /pol/ false flag hallmarks, though, where it was very "hello, fellow sexual minorities."

 No.305497

>>305476
Go back to tumblr.

 No.305498

>>305476
Shut up. This isn't true. I'm not getting SRS. Why don't you get it? It's scary as fuck.

You think being trans means requiring surgery? Retard.

 No.305499

>>305495

Tbh lots of people lol. Queer is a weird one, used to be a slur (usually) for gays and now it's, uh, a term for girls with blue hair.

 No.305502

>>305495
Queer works. Both have history tho. The + caps it off pretty well. I only ever see it get verbose near pride where various glowops start poping up to cause in-fighting, so people add the IA between the Q and + to stress that ace people are included, since said glowops often target them specifically. That does cause some bickering with intersex people since some of them do and do not want to be in the acronym.

 No.305503

>>305494
When do you plan on getting bottom surgery? Until then you're just a man who takes HRT and dresses differently, you won't be a woman until after SRS.

 No.305505

>>305503
Stop pressuring people into getting dangerous surgeries that aren't even applicable to everyone. If you don't have GENITAL dysphoria specifically why would you get the surgery? I don't want to "be a woman" I want to "be a transhumanist" and I already am retard. It's a dangerous surgery that needs to have justifications which I lack - I don't even have genital dysphoria retard.

 No.305506

>>305503
Tumblr, now. That's the only site where that glowop works.

 No.305508

>>305505
So you admit that you're just a man with a fetish then? Well if that's the case please stop associating yourself with the trans movement and trans label, you're making actual trans women look like horny creeps.
>SRS is a dangerous surgery
Literal /pol/ talking points on display here.

 No.305509

>>305508
>you're making actual trans women look like horny creeps.

Yo, as a horny creep I resent you lumping me in with trans women.

 No.305510

>>305508
>Uses 2014 tumblr truscum talking points, the place where /pol/ got it's talking points.

 No.305511

>>305509

… or trans women in with me… one of them! Don't do it either way.

 No.305514

>>305509
Stop responding to that anon. They will not understand your gender experience, because it conflicts with the truscum narrative they want to push. Just ridicule them until they leave.

 No.305516

>>305514

But I think they're funny!
Also cut your dick off fapfapfapfapfap

 No.305517

File: 1662421164609.png (135.65 KB, 292x292, 1627730625902.png)

huh, we got to like 80 replies before the shitfliniging started. that's amazing.

 No.305518

>>305517
Eh, unless it loops I think all beats of that quarrel have been covered. Should be clear now.

 No.305523

File: 1662421658323.jpg (201.43 KB, 789x1013, sex gender.jpg)

>>305519

 No.305525

Tbh I've always been kind of sympathetic to the SRS "truscum" thing. Like the main drawback seems to be that the current surgery requires a ton of maintenance. I can get that reasoning too, though. It doesn't matter much - like it's really difficult to see most of the transgirls I know who've taken HRT but kept their dicks as "men." Socially, calling them women makes more sense even though I agree that there's some dissonance there when it comes to talking about sex. Like, as a general rule women have vaginas, but like 0.8% used to be guys and still have a memento.

 No.305526

>>305519

following up to >>305523

here is a a specific and rather simple example of gender norms differing over time

 No.305530

>>305503
>>305519
Eat my cis gendered female dick. I don't play by your rules.

 No.305534

>>305530

Lmao somehow correct

 No.305543

>>305525
You shouldn't be synpathetic to people who spread hate against others who aren't like them

 No.305551

File: 1662427352038.jpg (78.44 KB, 768x576, Tina.jpg)

>>305530
I got bored once and looked up pornhub (yes, I know, mistake already) solo female tag, most popular world wide, and on the first page is 'big clit' porn which when you look at their profile is very clearly from an intersex person (whether they know it or not).
At some point, you just have to laugh at the binary gymnastics.

 No.305559

File: 1662428637928.jpg (375.03 KB, 1817x2726, Hermaphroditus_lady_lever.jpg)

trans rights

 No.305560

>>305559
post Sleeping Hermaphroditus

 No.305568

>>305560
>socrates.jpg
lol

 No.305613

>>305522
>>305559
vgh retvrn

 No.305619

I saw people talking about srs im jodt hopin to say that wathever you do do NOT go for a social security/nhs funded surgeon ever. Youre gotta have to pay it fully from your pocket sadly.
Nearly every fucking single botched SRS cases come from these "people". There are obviously other known botchers that arent social medecine eoctors but youll do you reaserches.
Also be sure about what SRS techniques you will get, there are like 6 different ones. But AFAIK the only truly good one is the PPV technique (https://www.kamolhospital.com/en/service/SRS-PPV/) that have been used on cis women born with no bagina and intersex womens bagina for four decades now, it has stand the trial of time and experience and is the closest to normal vaginas that exist in terms of look, texture, contractions, self cleaning capacity, self lubrication and taste. Do not get some penile invertion SRS or some archaic horrid shit like that that dates back to the fucking 1940 and doesnt look or even function like the real thing.

 No.305621

>>305225
You dont know how much I want to do that to a closet gay, but I'd massage him until he's all relaxed and mellowed out, then kiss him and say all the things i like about him, then i'd slowly penetrate them with my fingers to loosen them up and then slowly work my pp in as i make him repeat to himself "I'm still a strong man" behind the gag, and i'll always take breaks as we start to make sure he doesn't feel any pain as i remind him he's still a strong man and i love him ^w^ and then when im done i'll let the cum dribble out of his butt, then gently wipe it up with some paper towels, and then massage him and shower him with complements how good he is in bed (and wipe up all his tears while carassing his face) and then snuggle him as we drift into sleep x3

 No.305624

>>305619
>>305619
>look, texture, contractions, self cleaning capacity, self lubrication and taste
what about feeling?

 No.305690

>>305621
and then we'd wake up together and he'd look really happy cause he woke up next to someone. Then id kiss him and tell him good morning then id go into the kitchen and make waffles or pancakes, whatever he likes better (ill ask him the night before, before i put the gag on) and id bring them into bed on like a lil tray and then id untie his arms and legs and then he'd just hug me and eat his breakfast :3
Then id ask what kinda hobbies he had and like hes not having a good life so hed say vidya and then id pull out a thinkpad and show him all the garbage ive made and like he really doesnt know wtf is happening but hes happy to listen
Eventually we'd develop a relationship, spend most of our free time together, sleep in the same bed, get married and live a fufilling life together :DDD

Thank you for listening to my self-fufillment post

 No.305697

>>305690
wholesome anon

 No.305703

>>305697
Thats how we convert homophobes. We lovingly "rape" them and then start beautiful lives with them. They deserve it :3

 No.305707

>>305703
rape is bad

 No.305709

>>305707
I know :3 thats why i said "rape" its pretty much all consentual, and is heavly focused on just getting him to relax and know its ok to be gay ^w^

 No.305710


 No.305711

>>305710
you cant even begin to fathom how lonely i am
like after i written that second post, i was just like only able to hold my pillow, clench it between my arms and legs, and giggle like a little girl for 5 minutes

 No.305713

File: 1662457323127.png (789.75 KB, 700x1000, ClipboardImage.png)

you ever had gay thoughts, lmao

>>305491
lol that dude was such a freak, a ghost freak

 No.305715

>>305471
why are black people even in the flag that literally makes no sense

 No.305717

>>305715
Started during the BLM protests. Honestly probably some fed op trying to agitate anger between black people and LGBT people by pissing off the racist gays and homophobic blacks.

 No.305718

>>305717
Incredibly delusional. Touch grass now.
It's intersectionality, nothing else. Obviously liberal. You can research who made the original flag and why they did it.

 No.305725

>>305718
>Touch grass now.
lol
I suspect feds from experience seeing wreckers in action at live events.

 No.305728

I unironically 70%ish only want to be a woman to be fucked by men and I am a straight male that has sex with men.

 No.305734

>>305551
whatever gets them off / helps them sleep at night

 No.305738

>>305460
no flags. we're not a nation-state or something

 No.305758

>>305738
Nations shouldn't have a monopoly on flags. Making flags for non-nationalist things makes national flags weaker as a tool. Makes it more difficult for nations to manipulate their population with them.

 No.305762

File: 1662464196936.jpeg (10.93 KB, 509x289, doubt.jpeg)


 No.305764

>>305711
Why are you lonely

 No.305842

>>305764
no clue
I'd boil it down to shit luck

 No.305848

>>305762
I mean he's got a point?

 No.305854

>>305848
It's culture war bs. What does a flag do? Southern states in burgerville took out the confederate parts, still doesn't mean all the open sewers and vestiges of Jim Crow aren't there.

 No.305861

>>305522
>>305559
Good god, i need to fuck greek-roman statues.

 No.305882

>>305715

The expressed reasoning was part BLM, part that there wasn't enough black/brown representation within the gay community. It was incredibly stupid, yeah, because the implication here is essentially that the rainbow only represents white gays… which was literally never the case, it's a fucking rainbow, if there was a problem it wasn't that the flag wasn't inclusive enough.

 No.305883

>>305882
Slap a hammer and sickle on top of the OG rainbow flag and call it a day tbh.

 No.305887

File: 1662483142678.png (420.57 KB, 1920x1080, superpride.png)

>>305883

Not enough representation

 No.305906

>>305460
I agree; in fact, I know that it will probably be an extremely unpopular take here but I think we should stop using the rainbow flag altogether. It is now firmly recuperated into being a symbol of the contemporary capitalist order. The most inclusive flag has just one color: red.

 No.305907

>>305906
I mean, ugh…I mean, ugh…I mean, ughhh…like ughhh could you ughhh, seriously? Ugh, like, ugh be more, ugh , could you not, just ugh, wtf, ugh. Such a ugh, y'know, like ugh, I mean just ughhhh. Ughhh, typical of a ughhh, you know ughh, it's just so ugggghhhhhh. I am not here for this ughhh. Such a ughh, typical ugghh. I mean uuuggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 No.305930

>>305907
Anyone who has spent time on this site knows there are plenty of communists who hate LGBTQIA+ people. Hence why I made this thread to begin with and it was almost immediately spammed with bigotry.

 No.305931

>>305906
It's just some stripes so you can sew one together at home. It even used more colors at one point but was simplified to 7.
Yes, some people missed the point and bought one, that's not good enough of a reason to discard it as a symbol.

 No.305935

>>305930
I don't think you used enough letters. We can't worry about class when you cannot possibly cover every single identity people create for themselves and make communities over. Capitalists have completely poisoned struggles faced by certain identities. Any org that puts class below or equal to identity is begging for glowies to fracture the group along those lines. But of course you interpret it as hate.

 No.305939

>>305935
Nice, instead of asking what I'm talking about to understand more properly you instead make up an accusation that I care about the letters, of which you think there are too many, more than class. But you think this despite not even asking me whether that's true. Care to explain why?

Could it be because you're more intent on personally attacking me than giving a fuck about what I actually wrote? Yeah, people on this site posting blatant homophobia which luckily got deleted by the godly mods is definitely just me being a bit too focused on the alphabet letters than class issues, right?

Fuck off.

 No.305943

File: 1662490438532-0.png (79.37 KB, 1338x974, 359_png.png)

>>305935
>Any org that puts class below or equal to identity is begging for glowies to fracture the group along those lines. But of course you interpret it as hate.
>org
what org?
Also no one does that, see picrel 1, this is how any LBGTQIA+ person sees it. Class doesn't nullify the discussion of social issues though, nor does picrel 1 imply that, but still, see picrel 2.

 No.305946

>>305943
Apparently caring about LGBTQIA+ people at all, or even being one, is by its nature "putting it above class" in the eyes of too many people on this site.

 No.305948

>>305939
We're getting too focused on the subject of LGBTQ+ rights I'd say. The economy is going to shit, workers are starting to be made aware of how bad things really are, etc. Capitalism is finally coming to fruition, and we now have the responsibility of lighting the sea of gasoline which we find ourselves knee-deep in. And yet, you want to focus on these relatively petty issues? Issues that'd likely work themselves out under Socialism?
And look, I get it, homophobia is still a thing in some insular communities and families. But the former will be solved through time, and the latter is a personal matter. This is a board for (primarily) political discussion. Focusing our *political* movement on personal matters as if we're a support group does nothing but dilute the purpose of our movement wholesale.
I can understand your disdain for genuine homophobia et. al., I'm not cishet and I can fully understand that. But this idea that we need to devolve into full idpol over the subject matter is simply ridiculous. We all need to, as some hippie who grows marijuana in the Kootenays would say, "chill the fuck out".

 No.305950

>>305948
Relatively petty issues that will "most likely work themselves out after socialism" which is not going to come at any point in the near future for vast swaths of the global population?

Why is it either-or? You know many countries are actively taking away legal rights from LGBT people like removing access to healthcare?

You get it? Homophobia is still a thing? You think saying this phrase means "You get it"?

You're simply deeply unaware of the material conditions of LGBT people

It's not JUST homophobia

https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-transgender-community

Idpol? How is there any idpol? We can't have a SINGLE thread on this entire goddamned site without it being too much? Too much fucking focus? There is ONE thread anon. IN THE FUCKING SIBERIA SECTION

https://www.hrc.org/resources/understanding-the-transgender-community

 No.305952

>>305946
Maybe there could be a pinned with important charts, like the Base/Superstructure Dialectic.

 No.305954

>>305953
Shut the fuck up anon. You are allowed to be a reactionary if you want, I don't give a shit if you "Take me seriously" dumbass bitch

 No.305955

>>305948
>And look, I get it, homophobia is still a thing in some insular communities and families
>I'm not cishet
go outside lol

 No.305956

>>305950
>
Idpol? How is there any idpol? We can't have a SINGLE thread on this entire goddamned site without it being too much? Too much fucking focus? There is ONE thread anon. IN THE FUCKING SIBERIA SECTION
Yeah, I'm aware. My judgement on this matter was probably a bit harsh.
Now, as for everything else, just calm the fuck down. You're putting the cart before the damned horse.
>>305954
Not even fucking joking, do you want a hug?
>>305955
To be fair, I am still inside of the closet.

 No.305957

>>305954
They're very obviously baiting. They aren't here to learn, they want to post pictures of tanks and say slurs so they can be like their favorite commentary streamers.

 No.305963

>>305460
I'm a lil drunk, so bear (lol) with me.
I'm an old school homo activist. Been out of the closest longer than anyone on the board, I'd reckon.
I loathe the progress flag and I completely agree with this sentiment. The rainbow flag was never meant to be all inclusive - it was meant to signify specifically the "gay" movement, which from it start also encompassed the transgender, lesbian, bi, etc. groups. Transgender activism is in a much dire spot than the gay movement, so I completely recognize they need specific representation. As the quote point out: the way to do this, is to hoist a second flag. Preferably side by side. So-li-da-ri-ty.

By the by, I don't know of a single pink worker who doesn't also hate the progress flag. It was literally designed by a silicone valley yuppie, and promoted by unironic Big Capital.
I know Zizek is deeply unpopular on here nowadays, but his critique of the "+" in "LGBT+" is one of his most salient critiques and will out life him ( :( ).

>>305956
I'm not going to pretend things are nearly as bad as they were even just 20 years ago, but "homophobia", or really just fear of the other, is structurally ingrained in society. That's also why pink PROLES make less wage overall: they are poised to accept worse conditions, because of their poor treatment on a societal level. The worse a region in is with gay rights, the lower the wages for pink workers. Go check it out.

 No.305966

>>305963
>old school homo activist
show us your lymph nodes

 No.305968

>>305961
It was probably the first thing to come up on a search engine, and looked fine from a skim read. Again, read and compare to other sources.

 No.305972

>>305906
Fly both side by side. That really makes some heads spin.

>>305966
Not THAT old.

 No.305975

>>305972
>Not THAT old.
Lmao, I like you.

 No.305977

>>305930

I'd wager that most of those aren't communists. Like maybe we have one or two unironic nazbols or patsocs or weird ascetic guys hanging around, but I honestly kind of doubt it. It's mostly reactionaries (some probably actual Nazis) and possibly a few further right Russian nationalists pretending to be economically socialist in order to spread anti-gay propaganda. It's from the same playbook swarmfront used, which makes it kind of creepy because these guys are very determined. Most of the posts seem very cynical.

 No.305978

>>305977
Yeah, don't see how you can even claim to be a communist while oppressing the same groups right wingers have loved murdering throughout history.

 No.305983

>>305978

You can be a communist and hate those groups, it's just that almost nobody who posts that shit here actually is.

 No.305984

>>305978
>>305977
4chan has been banning more VPNs and IPs, kiwifarms is down, hispachan is down, fbi.gov servers get shut down, and 4/pol/ + reddit + Twitter have waves of fixation of leftypol as some boogeyman. I've tried to figure out where they come from but to little success. They are drive by shitposters.

The Russian nationalist shit you got there is unfounded. To be frank, they are lies to justify your ultra left colonial position on the Ukraine War.

 No.305985

>>305983
>You can be a communist and hate those groups
This is always said so causally, like being an actual, bonafide Communist is as easy as identifying as a Lamarckian or something.
No bitch, being a Communist takes work and effort. It's not something you can wish upon a star.

 No.305987

>>305984
>The Russian nationalist shit you got there is unfounded.
There were morons here who genuinely believed Putin would declare USSR 2.0 during the first weeks of the war lmao. Like no, not all z-types are bad, but boy are there a lot of dipshits among them.

 No.305992

>>305987
We definitely got right wing pro Russian shit, which isn't obvious because the Ukrainian side shit was overwhelming. Both obvious glow ops have thankfully stopped.

Reactionary homophobic shit always rears its ugly head from time to time, but right now its the chillest its ever been. Nazbols, incels, among other reactionary ideolgues still post their shit.
Remain vigilant, be proactive, report often.

 No.305993

>>305992
>Both obvious glow ops have thankfully stopped.
Agreed. It's amazing how much the site has improved from this alone. It's still pretty shit, but at least within expected margins.

 No.305997

>>305984

RE Russian nationalists - There's a guy who's been repeatedly banned from the gay porn thread for posting a .ru link of anti-gay propaganda, and the other day a Z flag guy was pushing some anti-gay propaganda in tandem with some weird holocaust denial shit. I don't personally know if these guys are Russian nationalists, but they remind me of back in the day before Crimea (and before /pol/ dominance too iirc) when Tesak came up on 4chan and a few random Russians showed up in the thread trying earnestly to defend the guy. I don't know what the game is, but even here these types don't seem to be socialists. Maybe it's even a false flag, but whatever it is it isn't socialism.

>>305985

?
There are absolutely homophobic MLs. I just doubt much of any of the people trying to pass as homophobic MLs on this site are genuine.

 No.305998

>>305992
>Remain vigilant, be proactive, report often.
>i need the mods to defend me!

 No.306001

>>305998
>I want to debunk the same few lies over and over forever against the same people who just keep repeating them knowing it doesn't matter if they're true

 No.306002

>>305998
>>306001
Not that anon. I want discussion over LGBTQIA+ issues to be removed from leftypol by making a unified site position and banning all reactionaries for an appropriate time period. Plenty of other communist social media like reddit never suffered from this problem. Reactionary phobes were immediately called out and banned. But here it's more insidious and gets defended by people who haven't done 2 minutes of research into the topic, asking for "sources" of "proof" that LGBTQIA+ people are oppressed just like the rest of the proletariat and even moreso, absolute absurdity

 No.306003

>>305997
Communism either A) does not care for gay liberation as it is outside of history and therefore there is nothing to say on the matter, or B) recognizes it as self-liberation by proletarians against bourgeois strata and therefore a revolutionary activity. This mumbo jumbo about this or that sexuality being bourgeois always conflates bourgeois culture with that of the proletariat (hence, signifying the commentator is, themself, bourgeois).
Ipso facto: you CAN NOT be a communist and homophobic. It is a contradiction. At best you can be silent on the subject.

 No.306004

>>305972
hey is it weird that i want to get drunk with you and listen to you talk about these types of things

 No.306006

>>306002
>I want discussion over LGBTQIA+ issues to be removed from leftypol by making a unified site position and banning all reactionaries for an appropriate time period.

That's dumb. We're fine as is.

 No.306008

>>306003

That's not how ideologies work in practice. People can be for a stateless/classless society and also think that the gays are icky and would magically disappear under communism. Why? Because people are fucking dumb, and beliefs mix in all sorts of ways.

 No.306009

>>306006
Fair enough, but even supposedly non-homophobia anons tend to get pissed off when I or anyone else defends against reactionary homophobes. Lately I just ignore it and defend anyway.

 No.306011

>>306002
That's what the rules are already, just takes a while for mods to do something about it. Plus we know reactionaries are stupid because we get a lot of opportunity to make fun of any that come on here.

 No.306014

>>306004
maybe one day, Anon
🍻

>>306008
Good thing I'm talking about Communism then, and not some wishy-washy ideology. You're also wrong that people are "fucking dumb". The average prole knows very well how the deck is stacked, and are de facto open to other (the labour movement carried both gay liberation AND black liberation well before the liberal ideal was even formulated). It is in our nature: we are social animals to our core.
This shit about Joe schmo being some hateful, unintelligent being is just bourgeois consciousness creeping up. Sort yourself out.

 No.306016

>>306014
I think calling them "dumb" is pretty forgiving when they are spreading hate against us.

 No.306017

>>306014
>maybe one day
:DDD

 No.306020

>>305946
>Apparently caring about LGBTQIA+ people at all, or even being one, is by its nature "putting it above class" in the eyes of too many people on this site.
If these people think that caring about [social issue] at all is equated to putting it above class, what does that say about how much these people care about class?

 No.306021

>>306014
>You're also wrong that people are "fucking dumb". The average prole knows very well how the deck is stacked, and are de facto open to other (the labour movement carried both gay liberation AND black liberation well before the liberal ideal was even formulated).

The average might, but who said anything about the average?
I'm saying there are some people who hold economically socialist ideas who are also homophobes. It's not the average, but some of those guys do exist. I never once said anything about Joe Schmo being that guy - Joe Schmo is fine.

 No.306022

>>306020

Yeah, this is a fair point. They don't.

 No.306023

>>306016
I think all malice is rooted in some level of stupidity. Smart people are too busy trying to solve problems, or just learn more about the world around them. To stand by and hate, even for the sake of obtaining power for themself to rule over other, is to be too stupid to want to learn more, and too stupid to realize they don't need to rule over others to have their needs met. Malice is the seed of capitalism, may it burn as brightly as it's plant.

>>306019

Fuck off glowie.

 No.306029

>>306023
>I think all malice is rooted in some level of stupidity. Smart people are too busy trying to solve problems, or just learn more about the world around them. To stand by and hate, even for the sake of obtaining power for themself to rule over other, is to be too stupid to want to learn more, and too stupid to realize they don't need to rule over others to have their needs met. Malice is the seed of capitalism, may it burn as brightly as it's plant.
Yeah. You can't actually care about class and the liberation of the proletariat if you decide to instead tell other segments of the proletariat to shut up and keep quiet about the problems they face at the hands of capital. Instead, you are a liberal at best if you do that, thinking working within capitalism is all we can do, and a reactionary at worst who wants this oppression to continue after capitalism is overcome

 No.306034

why do we need to hate eachother
all i want to do is wrap my arms around a guy and hear him say he loves me

 No.306036

>>306034
So cute anon I'm rooting for you

 No.306037

>>306036
are you being serious anon

 No.306039

>>306037
why wouldn't I be?

 No.306040

>>306039
because 1. these posts are just garbage compared to everything else and 2. i never had anyone go "hey yeah good job ur gay :D"

 No.306042

>>305170
In other words, a regular developed socialist state?
No need for IdPol here.

 No.306045

>>306042
Learn what idpol means. Talking about issues that effect specific groups is not idpol.

 No.306046

>>305887
CIA flag

 No.306047

>>306045
Yes it is. If you discuss it more so than you discuss class, you’re wasting your time.

 No.306048

>>306042
Great, where's the "regular developed socialist state" all the LGBTQIA+ people of the world can somehow move here. Yeah, I'd love if the place I live was socialist and theoretically these issues might get solved. But it's not that way now. So what is your point exactly?

 No.306050

>>306047
You just entered the LGBTQIA+ thread willingly then complain that it's discussing our issues. Please point out the posts saying class isn't primary. Oh wait there are none. So fuck off retard

 No.306068

>>306047
See the infographs >>305943
Please, just read theory/

 No.306069

>>305943
> what org?
Literally every single liberal group + DSA.

 No.306070

>>306069
liberals are gonna lib, why is that my problem?

 No.306071

>>306070
Kick the libs out of the leftist movements. Every single one of them.

 No.306072


 No.306073

>>306071
Fair enough but what does it have to do with this thread. Seems like you're trying to falsely associate liberalism with LGBTQIA+ people in general as a form of homophobia. Fuck off with it. If not, then apologies.

 No.306074

>>306048
Rojava

 No.306075

>>306072
Yeah let's just move entire percentages of the global population to a small island which speaks a language they probably don't speak

>>306074
Yeah let's have LGBT people supporting NATO oil imperialism

Great ideas guys

 No.306076

>>305201
This. The only people who get mad about using Queer are underage zoomers. It beats having to remember a hundred different acronyms and getting yelled at because you left an identity out.

 No.306078

>>306073
>what does it have to deal with this thread?
You were talking about IdPol and I described how pointless it is if it is discussed more so than class. Quit being triggered.

 No.306079

>>306076
I've seen plenty of people make fun of all the letters in this thread, but nobody unironically complaining any letters were left out. So this seems like a straw man. I don't like the word "queer" it's literally a fucking slur to many people anon.

 No.306080

>>306072
>>306074
They said "all the LGBTQIA+ people of the world can somehow move here." We don't have the financial means to go to those places.

 No.306082

>>306080
Swim and be a stowaway

 No.306083

>>306079
I usually flip a coin to use both, since I know the community is kinda split on which to use.

 No.306085

I'm just going to quickly confess something
>Watching gay furry porn
>end up seeing video of two people having sexual intercourse in public like it's nothing
>feel extremely enraged and filled with just an absolute schizo-tier religious fervor and fury
>thinking about it makes me feel a bit like that
>it's fucking hell feeling the fallout of that
I don't know how I became simultaneously gay and an incel, but it happened.

 No.306086

>>306085
I usually just proceed with the assumption that's like, a sex district, where public fucking is allowed and people only go there if they consent to seeing people fucking.
Like how there's nudist beaches, but extend that to nearby gyms, laundromats, libraries, ect…

 No.306087

We love our queers LGBTQIA+es, don't we, folks?

 No.306088

>>306086
I'm aware, but the first thing is that the description keenly notes that there was security on-site to prevent that exact thing from happening, firstly. Secondly, it's not just the idea that they're breaking the rules. I feel this sharp, biting pain as I realize that not only am I probably never going to do that, but even if I did, I wouldn't ever forgive myself. It's a problem because secretly I really do want to do that.

 No.306089


 No.306090

>>306088
Ah, I see. Well, once capitalism is gone, planned economies might make sex districts possible. At least as an experiment.

 No.306091

>>306089
Ah darn it all to heck

 No.306094

>>306090
But that's the thing anon, I'm conflicted to an extreme extent. I want to be this absolute carnal sex pervert, I want to get railed by 20 guys in one night back-to-back, I want to do all that perverted shit. But I know it won't be good for me. It's like… the best way I can compare it is to fucking Sweet from GTA: San Andreas of all things.
Like near the end of the game, he almost tries crack and gets addicted to it. I'm in the same boat, I want to try (and likely get addicted) to all of these perverted things, but I know in the end it won't be good for me.

 No.306095

>>306089
I wonder where the whole "adding an x to words that are already gender unspecific makes them unspecificer" thing came from. Like people who say Latinx as an alternative for Latino when Latine already exists and Latine people can actually pronounce it. I thought it was a glowop / 4chan thing but then my college sociology teacher used it.

 No.306104

>>306090
Not if the "sex outside cishet family raising norms is degenerate and needs to be banned" socialist strain is the one that leads our dictatorship.

 No.306106

>>306094
>I want to be this absolute carnal sex pervert
Don't we all?
t.straight

 No.306112

>>306106
yeah but like yours is different to mine

 No.306113

>>306104
They won't tho. Because they are basically nonexistent. Now please stop worrying you homo lol
>>306112
I don't know how I am different, my fellow pervert

 No.306186

>>306095
I'm told that latinx and similar terms are not supposed to be pronounced, and are meant for online and written works, kind of like how saying lol or lmao in real life just makes you look weird

 No.306194

>>306095
Speaking with x in Spanish is nice because it triggers the rightoids. Its also nice when you want to emphasize that something is agender.
It is incredibly common and widespread and not woke at all to use @. Like a cook: [email protected] You'd see them for example in job listings because they want to be explicit that they will hire any gender, not because they are woke. This has been a thing for decades, before gays were even accepted into society.

 No.306263

>>306001
That just sounds like "ban what i don't like" because you don't want to deal with any opposition.
> it doesn't matter if they're true
Wouldn't it be important if criticism against you was true? Why wouldn't you take the opportunity to self reflect instead of choosing a comforting lie over a harsh truth?

 No.306264

so does leftypol still think that being a faggot is a distraction from muh class struggle or whatever or have most of them finally taken the pinkpill/rainbowpill

t. 2016 era poster poking my head into the site

 No.306267

>>306264
This is /siberia/.

 No.306268

File: 1662516116612.jpg (29.66 KB, 367x451, 14714.jpg)

>>306079 >>306076 >>305201 >>305193 >>305173
what you guys haven't yet realized is that every single letter in this entire thread has already been appended to the acronym. The entire english language will soon be swallowed.

 No.306269

>>306264
I fucking hope not.

 No.306270

>>306095
If your sociology teacher in college is using it, then it’s a glowop.

 No.306287


 No.306291

>>306264
I'm a gay guy myself and I think this site is mostly gay-friendly

 No.306310

>>306268
We will have to move on to other alphabets then.
Also why isn't there a rainbow flag?

 No.306327

posting once again to ask for help
how do I theoretically meet other gay people besides dating apps? how do I really "woo" them, even if I'm a mannish-looking bottom? (Besides the obvious matching personalities)

 No.306328

>>306287
It is OK to be Russian

 No.306357

>>306327
get hobbies with other people be openly social

 No.306416

>>306001
I have a hypothesis, there are two kinds of people, normal people and subnormals. Subnormals are extremely drawn to repetition and normal people want to develop. This also correlates with whether you are a rightoid or a real person.

 No.306455

>>306416
correlates very strongly I should say
Maybe I should hammer this out a bit further but tbh these people to me aren't even human so why bother.
sry for off topic

 No.306559

>>306416
>>306455
>normal = good so I'll give them the good trait without any statistical research to determine if the majority of people have the good trait
>slaps sub- onto it even though the word abnormal already exists. Just there for fash aesthetic.
>hehe look at me I'm pretending to have schizophrenia like the people in the memes.
The jannies should make a PDF on how to make quality bait. I'm serious. When it's this smooth brained it isn't even fun, just a waste of bandwidth.

 No.306561

>>306559
sincerely sorry the bait isn't to your liking

 No.306863

>be state the US doesn't like
<The US quite openly appeals to sexual minorities to try to disrupt society
>could try to be amenable to keep them away from being swayed to the US
<instead, embrace conservatives who want to have the right to beat them up on the street
why

 No.306903

File: 1662600103886.png (345.74 KB, 960x512, 1607453774065.png)

Unironic belief here, hormones should be seen on the same level as surgery. You don't need to take hormones to be trans, or even to be the gender you identify as. Hormones are definitely an option, but they should be seen as "up there" in nature.

 No.306904

>>306903
>nature
LOL!

 No.306905

>>306903
You don't need hormones (or any intervention) to "really be" trans. However, a lot of people find the hormones beneficial so they should be available as an option, and a more available one than surgery because they are more reversible.

 No.306911

>>306903
horomones increase quality of life and societal acceptance, especially in children that haven't finished puberty
>bro just tell society to treat you like a woman/male instead of an obvious transhumanist and everyone will do so
lol

 No.306912

>>306911
let me transhumanist post I have a pass fags

 No.306914

>>306912
fuk
*transhumanist
tr4an3y

 No.306915

File: 1662601244914.jpg (24.64 KB, 474x398, dammit.jpg)

>>306912
>>306914
obsessed lol

 No.306918

>>306903
also it's so funny how trapnsparent this shit is like
"look at this ugly gigahon wtf don't listen to this thing it's probably a pedophile" is such a convincing argument that trans people don't need to try and appear cis or change their appearance with hormones for their own self esteem and self expression

 No.306919

>>306903

Nah.
I'm kinda neither here nor there wrt when it's best to start hormones - not my area of expertise. But if you experience dysphoria and you've identified it, and esp. if you're diagnosed, then you should be taking hrt. Like even if you're late, afaik the current medicine says that it'll improve your quality of life a lil' bit. A trans person who doesn't want to take hormones is unironically sus. If you identify as a woman but you wanna keep cis male testosterone levels then I'm gonna doubt you even if I don't say it.

 No.306920

>>306915
only because fags keep calling me fag instead of troon. I'm just trying to get things straight (badum tss) here

 No.306921

Like, when it comes to the question of dysphoria as a mental health issue, then HRT is essential. All this other shit about "you don't have to experience dysphoria to be trans!!", "you don't have to take HRT to be trans!!" and whatever… like that's fine, you shouldn't necessarily be ridiculed just because you, uh, identify as a gender you don't feel like, but when it comes to people who do experience dysphoria then the question of whether they have access to HRT, whether they go through puberty with gender dysphoria, etc. is actually a question with medical and social significance. I don't necessarily know the answer to the question, but it's still relevant.

 No.306922

File: 1662601910618-0.png (100.89 KB, 481x512, 1607453774065.png)

File: 1662601910618-1.jpg (6.9 KB, 225x224, index.jpg)

>>305161
Right? It would've been more convincing if they had just cropped it to this.
Rightoids make memes like tourist restaurants make food. They just add too much cheese for the spectacle of it.

 No.306923

>>306922
nooooo you must understand the person im strawwomanning is UGLY

 No.306925

>>306921
>because you, uh, identify as a gender you don't feel like
You do remember gender euphoria is a thing, right? Being trans isn't defined by being depressed, that's a glowop to medicalize transness.

 No.306926

>>306925

Gender euphoria is the euphoric feeling of one's sex/appearance matching one's gender… it's not the, uh, feeling of euphoria at mismatch. That's dumb, anon.

 No.306928

>>306922
i have no mouth and i must strawman
t. that anon

 No.306929

>>306926
>it's not the, uh, feeling of euphoria at mismatch.
Correct. Also didn't imply that.

 No.306930

>>306925
the way I see it is let people adopt whatever gender roles they want or feel most comfortable with but gender dysphoria is an actual medical condition that impairs quality of life so if HRT is necessary then that's understandable in a medical sense

 No.306931

>>306905
>>306911
I feel as if most of the positive effects of hormones in the lives of trans people are more indicative of the environment they are within, as opposed to being the result of the hormones themselves. If it isn't too inhumane for most, we should do tests where some trans people are given hormones and others sugar pills, and see how their lives are doing a few months to years later.
>>306918
I only said that trans people don't *have* to take hormones, and it's something that - as a trans person - I've noticed is a very common sentiment. Taking hormones and presenting as a gender besides the one you were assigned at birth are *not* mutually exclusive.

 No.306932

>>306926
Exactly, they're related, but they're not mutually inclusive. Trans people don't all have gender dysphoria, and not everyone with gender dysphoria is trans (cis people get gender affirming surgeries too, with greater ease than trans people in fact.).
Like I don't understand how >>306926 came to such a conclusion. Did they just forget to account for nonbinary people?

 No.306947

>>306929

Well how are you contradicting me then?

>>306932

What exactly is the point then?
Whether gender dysphoria makes you feel bad, or gender euphoria makes you feel good, you still have an incentive to pursue HRT either way because it would result in a better feeling than not pursuing it. Saying "gender euphoria also exists!" doesn't contradict the medical implications of gender dysphoria - if anything, it reinforces them.
Dysphoria itself, though, is clearly still a greater mental health issue than, uh, people who don't experience dysphoria but do experience gender euphoria. Both conditions support treatment, but dysphoria specifically also presents a more pressing issue specifically of people walking around hating their bodies more than they need to. How that should be treated takes priority over how people who don't have that problem are treated… obviously. What is there to debate about that?

 No.306952

>>306947
>Saying "gender euphoria also exists!" doesn't contradict the medical implications of gender dysphoria
I'm not sure how you thought it did?
That was a response to "because you, uh, identify as a gender you don't feel like"
Just because someone doesn't have dysphoria doesn't mean they don't "feel like that gender."
You seem to forget that gender euphoria isn't something exclusively rooted in "looking one's gender" because not everyone has a gender with a particular look.

 No.306956

It's significative that we have a ghetto in leftypol and it's in siberia. Communists of this site are in delay from the social development of our time.

 No.306959

>>306952

Ah. Alright. Yeah, sorry.

 No.306961

>>306956

This isn't a ghetto lmfao.
Being gay isn't revolutionary. It's nice, yeah, we deserve the same rights as anybody else certainly, but gayness isn't inherently leftist.

 No.306963

>>306956
>>306961
The problem with "existing is resisting" rhetoric is that capitalism coopts everything it touches.

 No.306980

>>306959
Oh don't worry comrade, I could've worded things better to start with.
>>306956
I think it's more like a countryside than a ghetto. We get to talk about politics, but aren't constrained to that.

 No.306983

>>306931
>I feel as if most of the positive effects of hormones in the lives of trans people are more indicative of the environment they are within, as opposed to being the result of the hormones themselves. If it isn't too inhumane for most, we should do tests where some trans people are given hormones and others sugar pills, and see how their lives are doing a few months to years later.
Anon, you're flat out wrong. Hormones change everything from mood, to personality, to body fat distribution and sexual function. I'm not sure what you thought they did, that they would be comparable to sugar pills. For some people they do nothing, for those specific people maybe sugar pills are equivalent. But for most people there are drastic effects

 No.307302

File: 1662660094578.png (73.69 KB, 174x289, ClipboardImage.png)

>mfw i did it again
fuck

 No.307402

>>307302
drinking cum?

 No.307431

>>307402
oh no i forgot to do that actually
but do you realllyyy wanna know what i did

 No.307432

File: 1662681556676.jpg (38.45 KB, 602x559, hiltfocwlpq71.jpg)

>>306931
>I feel as if most of the positive effects of hormones in the lives of trans people are more indicative of the environment they are within, as opposed to being the result of the hormones themselves.
Spoken like somebody who has never been on some kind of medication that they needed. It's well understood that hormones and other interventions improve survivability and mental health in general. This isn't the first time anybody thought of testing that.

>>306983
The sugar pill thing is standard procedure for scientific testing. You test against a placebo to ensure the effects are actually the medicine and not the placebo effect. That part isn't wrong except the presumption that this hasn't already been tested.

 No.307623

>>307431
Yeah, I do wanna know

 No.307760

>>307623
ugh fineee
I nailed myself with a dildo and almost fisted myself while listening to literal "animation meme"-tier music

 No.307883

>>306903
Unironic belief here: since we as a civilization have mostly decided that teenagers shouldn't be getting married and reproducing, puberty serves no practical purpose in the modern world anymore and everyone should be just universally put on hormone blockers until they're legally adults with complete bodily autonomy and can then choose what kind of puberty they want to undergo

 No.307884

>>307883
huh… "the age of consent is 18 - why shouldn't puberty be too?"

 No.307886

>>307884
the right will claim that teenagers should be forced to be sexually mature because they're all pedophiles who are projecting their degeneracy onto queer people

 No.307887

>>307886
hm… there's no reason why the government couldnt just treat yearly histerelin rod injections like a vaccination against a disease. i think i actually agree with you. there's no reason teenagers should be sexually active or have puberty if that's just going to get them in trouble with the law. i wont lie, things wouldve been a shitload easier for me in my adult life if i just got a histrelin shot every year as a teenager.

 No.307888

>>307883
Hormone treatment is a big deal. It's often worth it for trans people, including kids, but it's not something to be taken so lightly that you'd just implement a policy like that. There's a weird (idealist) notion that medicine is like healing magic from fantasy and you just take some pills and the pills fix you. The reality is biology is an extremely complex system and if you go messing with one thing you are likely to change other things with it. This is why drugs often have major side effects. The human body isn't a computer program that simulates blood sugar level and displays a hunger meter. We are a mass of extremely complex chemistry where every system is interacting in some way with every other system. There's a reason the Hippocratic Oath says "first do no harm." Medical intervention often has negative side effects, so it's not something you should fuck around with, only use when you have an actual problem you are trying to treat or avoid.

 No.307901

>>307883

I know, know KNOW this is a troll, like it's literally impossible that it isn't… but I'm still going to argue with it - puberty is what's important, the number isn't. The vast majority of people complete puberty considerably before 18, the choice of 18 (and previously 21) relates to cultural standards relating to completion of sexual maturity. Sex hormones impact characteristics besides just sex and appearance - they also drive muscle growth, which has implications wrt occupation. Those few who have serious developmental delays or no puberty are a small enough exception that it makes some logistical sense to set 18 as an age of majority. Puberty is crucial to development for the vast majority of people, and if you delayed it for that long then it wouldn't make sense to give access to it at 18 because those people would not be adults. Sexual maturity is the biological truth around which legal adulthood was defined, if by 18 nobody had hit puberty then you could not realistically draw any line there where they would be "responsible enough" to decide on what kind of puberty they should have. The legal implications of adulthood don't stand if you force everyone to be a child.

 No.307903

>>307884

Age of consent is 16 most places. Highkey 18 is dumb. There are worse ages of consent - some places in the world set it at like 21, so 18 is fine compared to that. 16 shouldn't be age of majority, but there's no universe where highschoolers fucking is a bigger risk than highschoolers driving or where people who can do algebra can't be trusted with decisions about their own bodies.

 No.307909

Tbh there's also a significant conflation of age of majority with adulthood, and that just kinda blinds people. There's no magical change that happens when you turn 18 - the actual change happens like 5 or 6 years earlier and it's usually through by the time you hit majority. Majority is when you can vote and when all the country's constitutional rights are supposed to apply to you, but there are a lot of things (work, sex, etc.) where it doesn't really have much relation, ages of consent, driving ages, working ages, etc. are usually set a little bit earlier because all setting them later would do would delay people or create unnecessary crimes for people who refused to adhere to the delays.

 No.307976

>>307901
Nicely said anon, imagine advocating modifying the bodies of every person to match arbitrary lines in the sand dreamt up by the owning class. No, cis people will NOT be forced to take puberty blockers. Retard tier take

 No.308198

>>307883
Okay so like, me and everyone else when it comes to the debate of minors and hormones believe that minors need to go through puberty. I believe that it'd be a better solution to implement a culture that accepts trans people for who they are without hormone, and others believe it's necessary medical treatment that cures gender dysphoria that has a considerably higher efficacy when done at an earlier age. We both have generally reasonable points of view, but why do you have this complete bohemian and almost fantastical view on the subject matter where you believe people shouldn't go through puberty at all?

 No.308218

>>307883
>Price of HRT and Puberty blockers skyrocket
>Trans people end up unable to afford it and become fugitives while femboy cops chase them.

 No.309001

>>308198
Teens wanting hormones isn't about "being accepted as who they are" they want to look like cis girls and they do NOT want to look like hons, no, we aren't going to "[change culture to be more accepting of looking like a transhumanist]" bitch I want to look like a girl and I wish I transitioned at 13, same for the youngshits

 No.309267

what is Demi sexual ?

 No.309269

>>309267
Demi lova lova Lovato
anything demi, Demihuman, Demigod

 No.309290

>>309267
it's when you can only SEX someone you're romantically attracted to.

 No.309291

>>308218
link the manga you fuck

 No.309298

>>309291
search for jairou on kemono.party

 No.309376

>>309290
So a healthy human being then

 No.309383

>>309376
But it's only romantic attraction, not sexual attraction. Think couples who met in multiplayer games and forums, or who have waifus from books with no canon visual depiction.
I don't know the difference between that and just being asexual but something-romantic. Maybe demisexual was a term that cropped up before people considered sexual and romantic as being two different orientations.
I get why people would want to stick with it tho. I'm technically pan but call myself bi since that's the more well known of the two.

 No.309384

>>309383
>>309376
>>309290
>>309267
sounds like a more accurate term for that would be romance-sexual

 No.309387

>>309376
What's a healthy human? apparently its going out and having lots of SEX with random strangers?

 No.309388

>>309384
Maybe, but demisexual is catchy and already has some history behind it. People in the lbgtqia+ community tend to be reluctant to change symbols when they already have media recognition that took time to build. See discourse surrounding lesbian flag variants, the gay flag, and of course the pride flag that, as seen ITT, some are unhappy with having more stuff appended to it.

 No.309420

>>309384
yeah,and aromatic should be named aromantic,but what can you do

 No.309421

File: 1663092688595.jpg (156.12 KB, 997x1024, views.jpg)

deboonk this

 No.309425

>>309421
Products of their time.
Castro actually rescinded this and Cuba AFAIK is the only country to ever officially apologize for discriminating against gays.

 No.309427

>>309425
>products of their time
then why do people worship them and their specific ideologies like gods when they are merely a product of their time?

 No.309428

>>309427
because you're a liberal or anarchist who projects their own worship because you're a liberal?

 No.309429


 No.309430

>>309427
Charles Darwin thought you could talk to the death through seances.
Doesn't mean evolution is false.

 No.309431

>>309430
the thing is most people I see here simply support opinion A because favorite revolutionary figure said so

 No.309433

File: 1663094209858.gif (1.49 MB, 300x300, and.gif)

>>309431
>some people are stupid
ok

 No.309441

>>309427
Greatman theory. Dumb people tend to associate big historical events with big guys in power rather than common folk. This framing is often how people are taught history in schools.

 No.309442

>>309441
>Dumb people tend to associate big historical events with big guys

 No.309453

>>309421
First is fake lol.

 No.309455

>>309453
On further inspection, most of those appear to be fake. Can't hard confirm like the Marx one tho.

 No.309456

Also,
>>309425
Kill yourself bourgie. The labour movement has always been decades ahead of liberal social justice and this has not changed.

 No.309475

>>309456
Read theory pls. It's tiresome to have to keep reminding you redditors that base and superstructure undivorcibly maintain and shape eachother.

 No.309479

>>309475
Fuck off with that meme dialectics shit.

 No.309483

>>309479
>Fuck off with that meme dialectics shit.
I hope that was sarcasm. If not then I blame glowies like Agent Kochinski for funneling twitter users to here.

 No.309488

>>309483
Personally, I blame fakes like you who get their theory from the internet.

 No.309504

>>309475
Rich of you to talk about reading anything, considering you have the reading comprehension of… well, a /leftypol/ poster.

>>309479
>>309488
Thank you for still using your brain.

 No.309531

>>309504
>accuses that anon of lacking reading comprehension but doesn't explain how.
>Doesn't refute the dialectic
>Thank you for still using your brain.
The Base-Superstructure Dialectic is a pretty good response to most idpol, such as >>309456, I don't think they misread anything.

 No.309818

>>309531
I pointed out mere facts, dumdum. Sad your brain is so rotten you can't discern that from identity politics.

 No.309822

>>309456
>>Products of their time.
>The labour movement has always been decades ahead of liberal social justice and this has not changed.
[current year] + 10x is still defined with respect to [currrent year], Einstein

 No.309834

>>309822
1) You got baited by fake quotes; and
2) You are so ignorant of actual history you do not know the labour movement was initially synonymous with anti-racism, and created safe places for queer people. Fuck, every third Bolshevik took it up the bum, and some of the highest ranking lived a life SCARED of their homosexuality until they became active in the real movement. Almost as if labour practice and queer practice go hand in hand, not that you know.

Entirely inline with the bourgeois consciousness this thread is inundated with, like the slander about the proles that is parroted in earnest because you scumbags are all as far removed from actual working schmoes as can be. Including, if not especially, queer proles.

 No.309837

i'll ask my crush out this friday:)

 No.309855

>>309834
1) You are an idealist denying historical materialism and the situation of these historical movements within history.
2) That's it. Cope harder.

 No.309866

>>309855
I’m so confused as to what you’re arguing

 No.309874

>>309866
First correct thing you said.

 No.309877

>>309866
Me too. What the fuck is this post even saying: >>309822

 No.309885

>>309818
>mere facts
It was actually an opinion in response to someone else's reply, which while an innocuous opinion on it's own, became idpol in implication.

>>309425
>Products of their time.
>Castro actually rescinded this and Cuba AFAIK is the only country to ever officially apologize for discriminating against gays.
stimulus
>>309456
>Also,
>>>309425
>Kill yourself bourgie. The labour movement has always been decades ahead of liberal social justice and this has not changed.
response

What did >>309425 have to do with "liberal social justice."

 No.309946

>>305458
>NO men or chasers allowed!
what about the butch transbian in men's clothing and the transbian who used to be a chaser
be careful who you let in because we're not all anime catgirls IRL

 No.309949

>>305526
true here's FDR

 No.309956

>>309388
>demisexual
an oddly specific label for not being a slut
i don't see how this is on-par with being LGBT given how socially acceptable it is to be demi
it also doesn't explain as a word your sexual orientation with regard to gender. You're gonna be L, G, B, or Straight, regardless of if you only feel sexually attracted to people you're also romantically attracted to

 No.309982

>>309956
They can have a word anon, "not a slut" is a phrase not a word. They didn't even get a letter. quityerbitchin

 No.309985

>>309956
>>309982
Also, not being demisexual doesn't mean you're a slut. It relates to sexual attraction. Not sexual behavior. Most people probably are not demisexual. They feel sexual attraction towards people but they don't act on it.

 No.310009

…against the idea that "demi" is relevant or queer
>>309985
>not a slut
Sorry about the exaggeration.
I'm being hyperbolic/jokey, not literal. Not here to slut-shame people who can get off to someone they're not dating/friends with/close to. I'm making the point that demi-sexual is a misnomer because it makes it sound like a sexual orientation when it's not. It's also a misnomer implying that someone is partially. sexual, when it's more like they're conditionally sexual. I dated a demisexual person who obviously felt horny, was only attracted to men (had an actual sexual orientation), had sex with me before we actually dated (we were friends) and even went on to cheat on me. I just don't get the importance of this distinction when it's so banal and hardly queer in the typical sense.
demi people be like:
>I identify as straight and I’m not in any way a prude, but I need to have a deep emotional connection with someone before any sexual feelings appear.
But when was it the default to assume everyone must at some point lust after someone they're not emotionally close to?
What's the word for not-demisexual? I'm not saying demisexuality doesn't exist. I just question:
(1) The need for a label
(2) The implication that being nondemisexual is the assumed default
(3) The choice of root "demi" for the label
(4) The implication that not wanting to fuck someone you don't know makes you LGBTQIABC++

 No.310022

>>305526
Men used to ear high heels ad makeup, men used to do ballet, men used to write letters to watch other, etc.

Masculinity is truly nothing but aesthetics

 No.310027

>>310022
Men still do ballet, and every man in show business wears makeup. How is writing letters un-masculine?

 No.310031

>>310027
Because we have email for that now

 No.310128


 No.310226

>>310031
>Depends on internet availability
We're not going to have the internet forever, capitalists can only extract so much money from it before deciding it poses more of a threat to capitalism than it's worth. Just look at what they're doing to phones, people don't bother to pick up the phone anymore thanks to spam calls.
We have to be ready for the 'people on bikes carrying USBs in a backpack' era of the internet.
>Can't attach flat things like keys, cards, coins, origami, ect…

 No.310363

ImI'm just gonna call the whoel movment 'queer' because its one sylalble and covers most of it.
so whats up my Q folk
yuo can t prove I'm drunk

 No.310364

>>310226
>not having wifi in your backpack
Not gonna meshnet sis

 No.310588

File: 1663330389057.png (9.58 KB, 800x480, ClipboardImage.png)

WHY DO YOU KEEP GETTING THE BEST FLAGS

i hate being a normie sometimes, i want cool flags
nation flags are cringe

 No.310589

>>310363
>so whats up my Q folk
don't say that out loud, you might attract a different crowd lol

 No.310591

>>310588
this looks like an iPhone wallpaper.its cool. I'm demiseuxal now.

 No.310614

>>310588
I like the gay(male) flag, wish it were more common like the trans flag or even the lesbian flag

 No.310616

>>310591
what is the difference between demi and pan
Also idc labels but what level of fruity am i?

Like i'm gay for love, i would have sex with a man if my wife's soul transferred into him

what flag can i get
i am extremely devoted to the object of my desire

 No.310642

>>310226
The good news is that this won't happen unless there is a wide-scale collapse of the telecom systems; the why is the bad news - the Internets have been their playground from the beginning and have brought them a *lot* of profit and is probably the best counter-insurgency tool.
>>310363
Too bad "Q" is associated with rightoid skitzos now.

 No.310703

>>310226
>We have to be ready for the 'people on bikes carrying USBs in a backpack' era of the internet.
This is why you should be scraping as much data as you can. It's not guaranteed that capitalists will provide us with for example complete access to exhaustive archives of the writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc. like we have no. Save everything. If you view something on the internet, save it, assume it will be gone in 10 minutes

 No.310707

>>309837
he said yasss!!!! holy fucking shit

 No.310780

>>310707
Nice, happy for you

 No.310995

Anyone willing to engage a little on a dum dum level about gender politics, in good faith? I can state my positions or whatever if people think this is bait or something.

US trans idpol chaos has arrived near here, just now of all times. I have a feeling that the maximalist trans rights campaign that might have been appropriate in the end of history, in an urbanized context within the global hegemon, is not welcome here at all. People don't have the education here, they haven't even had educated people among them for decades, all the young emigrate.

 No.310997

>>310995
i don't see why you need education here

man, woman, non-binary is not really some foreign, elite thing that only westoids can comprehend

you don't even need to be literate for that stuff

 No.311011

>>310997

I'm sympathetic, less so in the last couple of years tbh, but people here are not and have not been historically.

I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative. I've been saying the western establishment narratives are collapsing globally to people too btw. People here are questioning why other countries don't push SSRIs like the US does too.

I don't have a response when people point out countries that have stricter trans identification protocols yet apparently have better outcomes, like the nordic countries.

Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?

A narrative here is that when one kid in a class identifies as trans, the incentives in place mean that suddenly half the school is trans and chaos ensues, like a hysteria.

I don't have kids. If a father without an education says that he has the right to have a serene learning environment for his kids I don't argue. It's near impossible for kids to get an education in their current info environment as it is. I don't accept views like this from educated urban friends fwiw.

 No.311013

>>310995
>In good faith
I'll try.
I feel like decompressing the way you describe these things might help. You're using a lot of catchy yet cryptic lingo, though I imagine these are how it's been described to ya.
>US trans idpol chaos
Are you not in the US? Is there anything going on over there that feels uniquely burger or do you just associate the discourse with the US?
>maximalist trans rights campaign
Hmm, not sure what maximalist means here.
>that might have been appropriate in the end of history
Mad Max shit? There better be motorcycles involved.
>in an urbanized context within the global hegemon, is not welcome here at all. People don't have the education here, they haven't even had educated people among them for decades, all the young emigrate.
I imagine more people in your city simply feel apathetic towards it than against it. That may be the media feeding you the idea it's unwelcome. Especially if it's a region known to be uneducated, and therefor likely to take the media at it's word.

 No.311024

>>311011
>I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative.
Who are 'they' in this context?
>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents?
Well due to a lot of censorship, and even the big book burning in WW2, trans research has been set back a considerable amount, but yeah there's some. I haven't looked into it much myself though, so i'll have to look into it.

 No.311104

>>311013
>>In good faith
>I'll try.
Appreciate it. I can absolutely see how trans people would be extremely suspicious of supposedly good faith discussion.

>>US trans idpol chaos

>Are you not in the US? Is there anything going on over there that feels uniquely burger or do you just associate the discourse with the US?

It all feels burger tbh. The anti trans positions and arguments and behaviours now made here are totally informed and constructed from a US social media evangelical perspective. The pro trans positions are from the extremely online idpol sections of the US online culture. Both are out of context here to me tbh, and to people here.

>>maximalist trans rights campaign

>Hmm, not sure what maximalist means here.
The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.
People here also wouldn't support giving puberty blockers without some kind of offical statement that this is government medical policy or something. It all seems driven by online culture in the US to them. I kind of agree with that tbh. I had always assumed that there were extremely stringent psychological and environmental assessments carried out before people were given puberty blockers.


>>311013

>>that might have been appropriate in the end of history

>Mad Max shit? There better be motorcycles involved.
End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted?

>>in an urbanized context within the global hegemon, is not welcome here at all. People don't have the education here, they haven't even had educated people among them for decades, all the young emigrate.

>I imagine more people in your city simply feel apathetic towards it than against it. That may be the media feeding you the idea it's unwelcome. Especially if it's a region known to be uneducated, and therefor likely to take the media at it's word.
People certainly aren't apathetic, I'd kind of prefer if they were on this issue. I'd classify it as a feeling of empathy without willingness to change the color and nature of their lives. People here agree that trans people have certainly always existed in small numbers and seem pretty open to equality (from their perspective they have treated the few out trans people in society in a moral way historically), but are not willing to accept explanations for the recent explosion in numbers and how the issue dominates the discourse. Particularly around schools.

>>311024


>>>311011

>>I'll agree with them when they talk about elite narratives falling apart right now, and they see what they call trans ideology as part of an elite narrative.
>Who are 'they' in this context?
Everyday people around here.

>>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents?

>Well due to a lot of censorship, and even the big book burning in WW2, trans research has been set back a considerable amount, but yeah there's some. I haven't looked into it much myself though, so i'll have to look into it.
People bring up the policies of the nordic countries, which are stricter than the US apparently, as a gotcha. It's all from US religious right wing online talking points. When I ask exactly where and how people get informed on events and politics it's a fucking disaster. They are being fed peterson and shapiro and worse every time they look at a screen.

Hope I'm not sounding like a provocateur or something. These issues are the first thing that people have brought up in conversation with me, out of nowhere. I can't help seeing it as the new wedge issue, pushed as a distraction by both kinds of liberals, with trans people stuck in the middle.

 No.311200

>>310995
>I'm not sure the place I live is ready to stop oppressing trans people, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say, present your arguments in front of me please
Fuck off

 No.311201


 No.311203

>>311011
>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?
Trans people are an oppressed minority, there is often lacking good medical research, the "Standards of Care" in many advanced countries is woefully out of date. Unironically if you want the most advanced healthcare you have to ignore your local healthcare institutions and do international research online then demand that the doctor give you what you want, and if they refuse, find another doctor

Half the time the doctor literally ends up saying "we're not sure if this is the best but we can do it if you want" because nobody gives a fuck about doing medical research on trans healthcare because trans people are treated like garbage

Stop saying "narrative" and "ideology" it's a TYPE OF PERSON.

 No.311204

>>311104
>End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted?
Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history, stop pushing this bullshit idea that trans rights are some western US concept

 No.311205

File: 1663452230680.jpg (48.74 KB, 1536x864, foucault-1536x864.jpg)

>>311204
>Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history
<they're an essentialist

 No.311206

>>311104
>The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.
Convert to weight or strength class based brackets. Top athletes are already genetic outliers that have biological advantages over the rest of the competition and the general competition. Why is it trans people being singled out? If it was a real issue we'd see trans women winning sports competitions at rates exceeding their small percentage of the population, but we are NOT seeing that. Instead just a few isolated incidents that right wing media picks up on to demonize us.

 No.311208

>>311205
>Actually reading about a topic makes you an "essentialist" whatever that is

 No.311209

>>311206
>Convert to weight or strength class based brackets.
<looks at male-female segregated sports events
i think we did..

 No.311210

>>311208
maybe you should "actually read" about the topic of essentialism then

 No.311213

>>311209
Not really, it prevents people who aren't naturally small from being gymnasts, etc. There are tons of categories of people who cannot compete in particular sports at all due to the genetics, in any sex category. Sounds like you just want to expand that to include trans people. Just transphobia

 No.311215

>>311209
>>311213
Imagine putting institutions above people and dehumanizing some people because they break the categories dreamed up ahead of time

 No.311216

>>311213
you can think many things but what is the truth anon? i am just a bully?

 No.311223

>>311216
I have no idea what you are you haven't posted anything substantial or worth reading

 No.311228

>>311206
>Strength bracketing
Interesting, I've heard of weight bracketing having issues, where wrestlers would self destructive means of weight loss to meet just under their weight bracket, so whatever strength bracketing is, I imagine it'd be better for that, especially in non-fighting sports.
I was also thinking of something like chess's elo, where wins/losses would calculate where someone should bracket, but people can cheese that with intentional match throws.

 No.311233

>>309885
The "products of their time" reasoning is hokum, used to justify the current, liberal, and dominant culture as further progressed than whatever came before by function of de facto educating its subjects into being more open minded. My point was exactly that this is ahistoric and, as already pointed out, that the labour movement has always been the spearhead of what later became social justice topics (because liberalism is nothing but capitalist catch-up on social topics, such as anti-racism, queer politics, etc).
And no, that is not an opinion: it is the historic record. Again: sad that you can not discern the two but that is what imageboards do to your brain.

>>309866
>>309877
Just a petite moron who confuses inane screeching with intellect.

 No.311235

>>311233
>The "products of their time" reasoning is hokum
Is it asking too much that you had simply said that in the first place, rather than just using liberal like a snarl term and leaving it to speculation? Because that's an interesting point that would've been much more fun to talk about.

 No.311236

>>311235
My post wasn't talour made for your consciousness, as is no post here. Or anywhere. What a bizarre line of reasoning.
Also fuck you, not only did I make that point: liberalism SHOULD be used in bitter contempt. Why would I have anything but contempt for the culture machinations of my oppressors?!

 No.311247

>>311236
Using liberal with the weight of calling someone a redditor is counter productive to that end. You should feel *way more contempt* towards liberals than to use the word in a way that makes it seem like an unserious accusation.

 No.311248

>>311236
>My post wasn't talour made for your consciousness, as is no post here. Or anywhere. What a bizarre line of reasoning.
Yes, especially bizarre given that anon didn't say anything resembling that.

 No.311413

File: 1663499315854.jpg (158.86 KB, 900x1200, TRANSSTRASSERISM.jpg)

If you were at pride or a protest and saw someone with a transstrasserism flag, what would you do?
Seriously, what would you do?

 No.311514

>>311104 here again.

lame as it sounds, I'm here in good faith.

>>311203
>>>311011
>>Has any country's medical organization actually come out and defined all the medical and psychological protocols and health implications surrounding trans issues, for parents? Like gone on record, something I can point to?
>Trans people are an oppressed minority, there is often lacking good medical research, the "Standards of Care" in many advanced countries is woefully out of date. Unironically if you want the most advanced healthcare you have to ignore your local healthcare institutions and do international research online then demand that the doctor give you what you want, and if they refuse, find another doctor

>Half the time the doctor literally ends up saying "we're not sure if this is the best but we can do it if you want" because nobody gives a fuck about doing medical research on trans healthcare because trans people are treated like garbage


>Stop saying "narrative" and "ideology" it's a TYPE OF PERSON.


That can't be the message to parents though. This issue is dominating the discourse ffs. Where are the medical authorities giving official guidance? People barely trust any authority around here after the contradictory shitshow handling of covid, and you want them to accept this for their children based on….what? >>311204

>>>311104

>>End of history in the geopolitical sense. US hegemony maybe coming to an end. Aren't there a lot of things that don't make sense any more now that history has restarted?
>Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history, stop pushing this bullshit idea that trans rights are some western US concept

Fully agree that trans people have existed throughout history. The trans rights campaign of the last 15 years is absolutely a US concept imo, and has been co-opted by elements of the US establishment for geopolitical ends.

There are many things unique to the US that are not welcome in other countries. The opiate crisis, the massive over prescription of SSRIs, the largest incarcerated population in the world…it goes on. The US tries to push it's ideologies globally and if history had just stayed stopped, it might have worked.

>>311206

>>>311104

>>The sports thing for one. I feel like I've been maximally pro trans in my life, but some trans people having a clear physical advantage just never flew with me and it will never fly here. People take women's sport seriously here and the optics just remove the credibility from any pro trans discussions.
>Convert to weight or strength class based brackets. Top athletes are already genetic outliers that have biological advantages over the rest of the competition and the general competition. Why is it trans people being singled out? If it was a real issue we'd see trans women winning sports competitions at rates exceeding their small percentage of the population, but we are NOT seeing that. Instead just a few isolated incidents that right wing media picks up on to demonize us.

I agree that sport is in itself bullshit, the whole thing is a ridiculous spectacle. I watch a bullshit sport where the officials actively manipulate the game to engineer final minute drama. People here love it and just won't change their entire conception of it without the government coming out and enforcing trans participation in the way the trans community wants it.

Fundamentally, I guess I'm saying that people here are gonna need some authoritative societal organizations to come out and definitively state to parents with children in education what the reality is.

Maybe I should state my ideal world:

Absolutely full rights and equality and protection from discrimination for trans people.

Trans men are men, trans women are women. Trans people whose personal history might confer a perceived athletic advantage will understand that they don't compete until body modification tech has improved.

A government administered system where puberty blockers are only prescribed to children with a long history of dysphoria.

 No.311525

>>305387
>concern trolling over a clearly sarcastic shitpost
Kek

 No.311526

>>311204
>Trans people have existed all over the world for all of recorded history
Damn this is some schizoshit

 No.311528

>>311526
In what sense?

 No.311551

>>311528
They're afraid of the notion that the cavewoman tradwife of their dreams might've had a dick under her loincloth.

 No.311567

>>311205
>>311526
I don't know about Ancient times, but I recall the existence of a XVIIth century book by a Dutch man of law compiling various curious cases, among them a lawcase where someone's testament was cancelled because they were deemed insane for being born male but identifying as a woman.

 No.311728

Maybe do 10 seconds of research pseuds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

 No.312273

humblebrag tbh

 No.312292

File: 1663641032248.jpg (124.44 KB, 425x535, 1661470217470.jpg)

It's hard being non-binary in a time where everyone hates you, accessing a therapist is hell (prices), HRT is so far out of reach, and the capitalist class has appropriated your movement. I just want to live as the androgyne I am.

 No.312293

>>312292
Inhousepharmacy.vu

 No.312355

Why do people on this site conflate us with liberals and western imperialists?

 No.312360

>>311525
>Shit posting right wing idpol and getting called out on it then saying its just a joke

Congratz you fooled us into thinking you're retarded

 No.312370

>>312355
they don't know enough homosexuals and
overintake of edgy memes and twitter screencaps have ruined their perception of reality

 No.312372


 No.312614

>>312372
this is oriented towards people in the US

 No.312752

You literally can't have any trans person come up in the news on the main board without someone endlessly arguing about how they're liberal and western imposed and delusional. It's exhausting, I'm not even trans.

 No.312788

>>312752
It's all very tiring

 No.312801

>>312752
>It's exhausting
This is the point of both liberal and rightoid propaganda, however you delineate the two categories.
I call this the schizo glow complex

 No.312929

>>312355
Main board is becoming a reactionary sinkhole that is only communist in the superficial and self-flattering sense.

 No.312931

>>312929
Posting should require captchas that ask you a random trivia question about Marxism

 No.312936

>>312801
Is it a coincidence how all "Schizoposting" all just seems to further rightiod aims?

 No.312940

>>312929
The problem is that people won't let go of "anti-IdPol" and pretend like every year is 2016.

 No.312942

>>312940
No, actually they are very pro-idpol, it's just anti-lgbt idpol, but they like to pretend idpol only means pro-lgbt "idpol" which isn't even idpol but rather accurate descriptions of reality.

 No.312944

File: 1663786683565.png (256.5 KB, 1837x1655, ClipboardImage.png)

uh russiabros!? I thought le ukraine was le gay!?

 No.312945

>>312944
This is part of the flaw of bourgeois democracy, that public support even matters on these issues. No, you don't get to take away people's rights based on your own opinion even if you're the majority. How do we protect people targeted by ignorance majority masses?

 No.312947

>>312940
Eh, some of the "anti-idpol" is well founded and an intuitive response against class warfare, even if wrapped in language that appears counter-productive. To throw a blanket mark on all of it, is to throw out the proverbial baby (as the mods do frequently).

To be honest I don't know what is to be done at this point. This shit has been going on almost since /leftypol/s inception, and has been increasing in impudence linearly with the distance to /pol/. I'm highly skeptical the recent batch of mods also didn't include a number of reactionaries (going by experience, there), but I guess we will see.
On the other hand, it's not like this fucking thrash heap of a site is worth preserving. Honestly people here might be better off branching off.

>>312945
I made a post about how the perception that reactionary positions are supported by the proletariat is a bourgeois misconception, as those are the opinions of an unorganized and not class-conscious mass. But the mods deleted it, so I guess it isn't a /leftypol/ Approved(tm) opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>312931
Anon, almost nobody would be left to post.
Let's do it!

 No.312948

>>312947
>I made a post about how the perception that reactionary positions are supported by the proletariat is a bourgeois misconception, as those are the opinions of an unorganized and not class-conscious mass. But the mods deleted it, so I guess it isn't a /leftypol/ Approved(tm) opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wow sounds like a great post, any theory links that informed it?

 No.312949

>>312947
>Honestly people here might be better off branching off.
Where? I don't even know of anywhere. Maybe just real life instead.

 No.312950

>>312949
I'm sure there's an inordinately tech-wise furry on here somewhere.

>>312948
Lifted (almost) straight from Marx' letters.

 No.312989

>>312752
Its not much better when its gay guys either tbh.
I remember That One Thread when a patriot front guy tried to shoot up a parade somewhere in the midwest not too long ago and the article made a typo making the reader think the guy came out as gay irl (he is a straight married guy) and the whole thread was spamming Le Gorky quote and deversing pol tier homophobia.

 No.312993

Why does every pride flag look like pure shit? The trans flag is the least ugly and it still sucks it look like a candy bar

 No.313264

>>312355

Because your fight for equal rights and protection from discrimination has been co-opted by western porky and the MIC as a tool to maintain hegemony imo. Your fight has become a convenient wedge issue for both sides, like women's right and abortion in the past.

 No.313268

>>312944
if ziggers make roosia fagland I will abandon my principled internationalism

 No.313655

>>305526
>>309949
>>310022
>bourgeoisie degenerates participate in bourgeoisie degeneracy
….

 No.313666

>>312993
You are wrong

 No.313684

>>313655
Masculinity and femininity are bourgeoisie.

 No.313728

File: 1663926262596.jpg (146.02 KB, 900x1200, FbYrWbBX0AAkWwC.jpg)

>>313655
buck off.

 No.314444

the word filter converting transgender into transhumanist is BS

 No.314445

>>314444
wait does it not apply on siberia?

 No.314482

>>314445
The word filter is 7r4nny > transhumanist. Transgender isn't filtered.

 No.315124

>>305161
How do you guys deal with how our existence is some debate somehow rather than just a thing people learn about then move on with their lives? I swear even on this site where we'd expect communists to be the most advanced proletariat, instead there are tons of people who spread bullshit misinformation about us

Sure class is paramount, but there's something to these marginalized positions where the majority of people don't even understand us. This applies to other groups too clearly but I can't speak for them. I feel there must be some responsibility among ourselves to push for our own rights rather than assume the abolition of class will solve everything. How can it when even those who claim to want to abolish class still believe misinformation bullshit about us?

 No.315142

The "Economically Left but actually reactionary" crowd is malding in the Cuba referendum thread. Funny how they now vocally condemn Cuba from their armchairs like the radlibs they oppose.
>>312947
What we need to do is look at that the "anti-idpol left" has been so far and from what I've seen, its mostly produced a bunch of right-opportunists who want to appeal to the lowest and most reactionary common denominator. Instead of working to overcome these beliefs and attitudes, they would have us embrace such beliefs in the name of "appealing to the working class." They would have one think that anybody who what LGBT+ automatically gets a nice job and an apartment in a gentrified neighborhood when they come out, instead of facing ostracism at best.

 No.315168

File: 1664312337492.png (1.44 MB, 946x1817, ClipboardImage.png)

>>315142
redscare, stupidpol, magacommunism is likely backed by some think tank. Instead of simply wanting to focus on class issues, they mostly whinge about liberals but do so from a "leftist" aesthetic.

 No.315294

>>315124
It is unfortunate, however I'm happy my existence makes homophobes seethe, resentment is a two way street.


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