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 No.351689[Last 50 Posts]

The old thread has reached its limit, so I decided to create a new one.




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pinkwashing is in my honest opinion the biggest international hurdle to LGBT rights. LGBT in the west need grassroots anti-imperialist education, agitation, and organization, and to denounce NATO and other similar organizations that attempt to do imperialism in our name, without our consent. Tired of of reactionaries pretending we're in favor of bombing the 3rd world because some top level ghouls wave a rainbow flag before they do it.


>>351689 (OP)
>people accusing lgbt people of not prioritizing the working class, not being socialists, trying to explain socialism to us as of were liberals, calling us liberals, calling us democrats, belittling the oppressions we face, pretending we dont exist in the first world and thereby pretend third world lgbt people don't exist and don't matter, calling us capitalists, calling us NATO aligned imperialists, talking about whether or not they should kill us, etc.


it'll be harder for them to do this in good faith with a firm denunciation of porky imperialist pinkwashing at the very top of the thread.


How do I keep my butthole nice smelling?


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takes like picrel, among our own community, need to be firmly denounced. anti-phobia, anti-racism, and anti-imperialism go together, and mutually reinforce each other. They are essential to solidarity between proles in both the imperial core and the imperial periphery. LGBT must not be seen as class defeatists or pro-imperialists. Solidarity is possible. Solidarity is not a pipe dream.





Agreed. But I have solidarity with that anon because its easy to feel like everyone hates us especially when our own thread, which is already moved to fucking siberia, is being inundated with lgbtphobic assholes pretending they're mega based socialists and were liberals.


We are stronger than they pretend we are and we must not give in no matter how bleak things get.


furthermore we, cannot control what our enemies do, but we can get better at what we do. We must build bridges and not give into alienation.


TBH wasn't this thread already here because people wanted to post porn in it lol


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We must raise the quality of discourse and discourage hornyposting and doomerposting. We must encourage class consciousness and anti-imperialism, and synethesize it with the struggles of the marginalized, including ourselves. We must denounce homonationalism as well as LGBTphobia. We must promote internationalism and anti-imperialism.


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when reactionaries post shitty bait, we must not take that bait, and reassert our commitment to anti-capitalism, anti-imperialism, anti-racism, and anti-phobia.


>LGBT must discourage hornyposting

not my comrade


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I always thought that the people who keep doing that is just in it for the le ebin memes before they coom to trap porn. It ALWAYS is the case with them.



fuck you i won't do what you tell me


>discourage hornyposting
what if we encourage hornyposting but in the direction of productivity.
i am horny for agitating. going out with a megaphone to shout about how fucked the system is is hot.
i am horny for educating. librarians and teachers are hot.
i am horny for organizing. leadership and cooperation is hot.


not just assert commitment to these things but affirm that marginalized people like LGBT have more reason to oppose the system that is marginalizing them, even as there are attempts by capital to co-opt their liberation movements into some kind of woke liberalism with no teeth. the entire reason they do that is because they are trying to disarm a real threat to themselves.


If only you gays denounced NATO it would be left with no option but to dissolve, pity you dont have enough grassroots anti-imperialist education to do that 😔.


damn it's as if gays are not a single block of people


Considering this board is super homophobic and the mods enable them I'd rather go full clown world and just hornypost


i assume that, since you did not address anything else in the post, you all agree with the following:
* discourage doomerposting
* encourage class consciousness
* encourage anti-imperialism
* synthesize struggles of the marginalized
* denounce homonationalism
* denounce LGBTphobia
* promote internationalism
* promote anti-imperialism


If I were a 'phobic false flagger, I would say things like this


This. Based.


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>You have to denounce the NATO but I don't have to denounce russia
>putin is totally going to bring back the ussr back and gey rights do not belong on it
<russia is a capitalist country
>capitalism without gays is better than capitalism with gays because all gays are bourgeois and tools of imperialism
>Victims of US imperialism totally have the right to shove gay people into camps because gays are an invetion of american homoimperialism
I could go on like this forever, I've heard it all and don't want to hear anymore of it, I'm so tired and wish for this to be over.


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when reactionaries post shitty bait, we must not take that bait, and reassert our commitment to anti-capitalism, anti-imperialism, anti-racism, and anti-phobia.

>Victims of US imperialism totally have the right to shove gay people into camps because gays are an invetion of american homoimperialism

obviously not. furthermore such things would only be made worse by imperialist intervention


> furthermore such things would only be made worse by imperialist intervention
and that's assuming they're even happening in the first place, rather than simply invented by pinkwashing imperialists


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this thread is off to a proud start


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yes i suppose depending on what 'synthesising struggles' means


I'm just so tired of ztards and the like, I want to stop coming to this site but I feel that if I leave they win.


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>If only you gays denounced NATO it would be left with no option but to dissolve
underrated joke. obviously more than denunciation is needed. Revolution is needed in the imperial core, as well as in the periphery. The ingredients to revolution are international worker solidarity (which means standing up against bigotries and xenophobia of all kinds) and working class education, agitation, organization, activism, and militarism


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what does LGBT general do for work? What is the best job you ever had? What is the worst job you ever had?


I work for Citizen's Advice. It is my best job. My worst was Lidl.


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In my opinion that phenomenon is merely a reactionary overcorrection against NATO going balls deep in supporting nazis in ukraine. The whole internet and mainstream media is demonizing everyday Russian working class people (including LGBT) for their governments' actions, as well as ignoring the root causes of the war in Ukraine (NATO expansion, capitalism, imperialism) in favor of a simplified narrative where Putin invaded for no reason in February. Meanwhile imperialist liberals use pinkwashing to justify the support for the Ukrainian Neo Nazis who themselves are even more reactionary and LGBTphobic than the Russian government. At the end of the day, the Banderites and the imperial core reactionaries hate LGBT even more than Z, and Z isn't a real threat to you if you live outside of Russia.


My worst job was laying carpet for a really poorly run company in 2012. My best job was a short lived office job for an engineering firm. Most jobs are somewhere between those two. Trying to get a union job.


Russia was antigay long before the Ukraine crisis.


Good for you. I'm not in t'union but the company has been sound so far other than making us stop working at home one day a week but idk I couldn't be bothered to fight that.


I'm proud if this thread getting off to a good start. Let's ignore and ridicule all LGBTphobes and reference them back to already established thread norms.

Us posters in this thread, myself included, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard since we can't expect the jannies to babysit our thread, they have lives


I'm aware. When I said a reactionary overcorrection I meant the people on this site, not the Russian government.


I see. I'm not sure I think that is true though, the z crowd seem to largely be outsiders who couldn't find anywhere else that would let them be pro-Russian lol.


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>LGBT+ General 3: Fuck Pinkwashing Imperialists Edition


Yeah isn't 4chan in itself generally anti-Russian?


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Well… this thread is about left wing LGBT and I'd rather not make this thread about them, since they're largely confined to a containment thread. We can be anti-NATO and anti-imperialist without being pro-everything the Russian government does because we're capable of nuance.


Sure, why not. To derail this line of thought - are straight furries part of the LGBT(Q+) community (or furries in general)?


Who cares, they face no oppression. They can stop being furries at any moment. There's no political perspective on furries or furry rights. In practice they have overlap with lgbt though


>Who cares, they face no oppression.

fursecution erased yet again

>They can stop being furries at any moment.

Arguably no since being furry is just an affinity for anthropomorphic animals (sexual or otherwise), you can't really stop liking something manually

>There's no political perspective on furries or furry rights.

IDK it's getting bundled in with 'anti woke' nowadays


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Goes without saying. Reactionaries are always pretending the contrary. Nazis put us in the camps with a pink triangle. Soviets saved us. Any LGBT nazi is a self-hating loser who will be thrown into the fire by their own "Friends" when the time comes.


Well I might be ignorant. Maybe people view them as weird, but are they materially, economically, or politically oppressed? Please educate me


I agree but Stalin was hardly pro LGBT either, tankie reactionaries are also dweebs (gay or otherwise).


>are they materially, economically, or politically oppressed?

yes these fursuits are fucking expensive!!

Furries do seem a bit socially/economically oppressed in general but only due to coincidence of autism, depression, other mental illnesses, LGBT, etc.


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His actions are a drop in the bucket compared to literal concentration camps. I refuse to be baited into anti-communism by reactionaries.


be a libsoc instead then, liberals and democrats did stonewall and all the persecution of gays for 100 years in the west


I'm gay, I've been accused of being "z gang" (what I consider to be anti imperialism, but you might disagree), I've lived (for a very short time) in Russia which included attending gay bars, plus I have Russian friends.

I think this "anti zigger" shit is silly. Russia is generally homophobic but it isn't fucking Saudi Arabia either, or some American backwater shithole city (no offense). I come from the global south, its like that sometimes depending where you are. I think its a farsce to paint Russia as some unique anti-LGBT hell.

I mean, fuck the "communist" Russian party, and fuck all their anti-LGBT shit. But like have you guys never talked to someone in the periphery? All governments are fucking anti-democratic absolute fucking clowns that pull shit like this on the regular. Schizophrenic religio-political cuckery is the norm.

I don't know comrades, I think focusing on Putin's anti-LGBT clownery (that has actual negative effects on the livelihood of actual people, not discounting that) is missing the forest for the trees. The world is on fire, and we're being pushed towards nuclear Armageddon. Whatever Russia is doing internally is less important than stopping the world imperialist hegemon from extinguishing life on Earth.


>stopping the world imperialist hegemon from extinguishing life on Earth
How exactly would "multipolarity" or whatever help with that?
Anyway, lets be real, if you lived in Ukraine and could pick under whose influence you would like the country to fall under (and it really needs to be highlighted that in 21st century world, national sovereignty is a fiction), you would go with EU.


Primary vs secondary contradictions anon. Anyway LGBT people are oppressed via the same instruments of state power that proles in general are. Stop creating false separations and view things dialectically instead, taking into account the interconnections.


You can shit on America sure but at least in America you can't be arrested for 'being too gay' in the street and being gay on TV is literally banned


> if you lived in Ukraine and could pick under whose influence you would like the country to fall under (and it really needs to be highlighted that in 21st century world, national sovereignty is a fiction), you would go with EU.

false dichotomy. It's NATO that's funding the anti-LGBT neo nazis in ukraine, not the EU. Also it's the IMF that's looting ukraine. It's America that's giving weapons to the biggest reactionaries in ukraine. The separatists in ukraine are a side effect of the coup in 2014. If I lived in Ukraine I would be anti NATO, not pro Russian or pro EU.


I agree entirely.
Yeah, comrade. This might come as a surprise to you but the third world fucking sucks in more ways than one. Besides, getting arrested is the least of your concerns if you're LGBT in Russia….


Its not a false dichotomy by any means. 2014 revolution happened over treaty with EU. Ukrainian government is pursuing closer ties with it, and when this war ends with NATO victory, EU membership is on the table. For Ukraine, NATO and EU might as well be the same.


I wish EU could align with Russia/China and cut the US out, I fucking hate them bros


Russia or its treatment of lgbt minorities is not really what bothers me, what bothers me about ztards is how they think the war is good and that russia winning benefits them somehow and that a socially conservative capitalist country is good for socialism somehow. This is a war between capitalists, we should not take side and should be disgusted about it.
Ztards argue in bad faith, move the goal posts and want to spill everyone's blood but their own.


What possible alignment could there be between EU and Russia? I mean in the future if Russia became liberal democracy, integration into EU might be possible, but as it is now, there is very little will on either side for that. And the whole war really fucked possibility of EU leaving NATO over.


i can't help but empathize with the ztards because we are constantly bombarded with "Other nation bad" propaganda and sometimes it's just fun to see the libs lose. If you think that radlibs are annoying shitlib shit you see on reddit is fucking agonizing.
t. not that anon.


Maybe it was a big darkly comedic at first but this is real people's lives, Russia and Ukraine both don't deserve this, if Putin could have actually pulled off a blitzkrieg with relatively low casualties then fine but clearly that didn't happen and now NATO is just getting stronger the longer things go on


>Russia or its treatment of lgbt minorities is not really what bothers me
You can and should be bothered by multiple things


Please move it to the Ukraine thread now this is the LGBT thread.


>If you think that radlibs are annoying shitlib shit you see on reddit is fucking agonizing.
I could never get into reddit culture. I made an account for tech support before fbi.gov largely replaced reddit in that regard, came back to it to follow some porn subreddits and okbuddyretard my brain is smooth sometimes before getting bored of it, before finally deactivating it when they turned the little avatar dudes into a crypto thing.


Liberals are annoying but at least they stay on reddit, /leftypol/ was my escape to talk the politics I have to keep to myself IRL but ztards have made any quality discussion impossible.
I mean yes, russia's policy is horrible; I was trying to soften the blow so ztards won't come at me.

I'm really thinking of taking a break from anything political now.



anything but the hornypost question


It's good to take breaks and come back with fresh eyes.


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>i can't help but empathize with the ztards because we are constantly bombarded with "Other nation bad" propaganda and sometimes it's just fun to see the libs lose

trust the plan


>Russia and Ukraine both don't deserve this
It's gorbachev's fault for believing NATO wouldn't expand eastward and dissolving the USSR in the name of "peace" with the same porkies who funded the rise of hitler, killed a million in jakarta, napalmed villages in vietnam, etc.


>What possible alignment could there be between EU and Russia?
Amerikkka caused the war to prevent this from happening. they were seething at Russia giving the EU cheap energy. America destroyed nordstream 2, blamed the russians for destroying their own multi billion dollar infrastructure, and is now conveniently selling europe gas at inflated prices during the worst winter in decades.




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there have been really recent pogroms against us in america, multiple states are enacting laws against us, and all the "institutional support" people say we get is just pinkwashing. i.e. it's all bark and zero bite. When the time comes for the fascists to throw us into the fucking wood chippers the state will retract all its nominal protections built up over the years. We have the right to speak only because it allows us to more easily paint targets on our own backs for our future executors. And I'm supposed to me more afraid of Putin across the ocean than of my own government? Revolutionary defeatism is a doctrine that states I ought to oppose my own government first and foremost over governments I do not live under and know nothing about except through my own state's propaganda, and have no means of fighting except through serving my own bourgeois state.

It is the duty of proles in every nation to fight against their own bourgeois governments. That goes doubly for proles in the imperial core.


Maybe. I don't know. As I said, I'm gay and I think the discourse in the Ukraine thread has been OK barring obvious glows that get banned and deleted eventually. It is a hard topic to discuss because we had so many trolls in the beginning, and we still have non-leftists posting there, unfortunately. It is also hard that both sides assume the positions of the other which makes discussion really hard. Or the people posting don't even have a good grasp of the situation but have their opinions formed.

IMO the board is generally LGBT friendly, more so than perhaps ever. But we've also had a large influx of reactionaries, naz"bols", and other reactionary infracels due to the Ukraine war. As I said in the previous or previous-previous thread, we need to push these people out forcibly and figure out what to do with them in general.


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frogposters trying to suppress us rn


I am distraught. I wrote a whole thing and it was erased. No idea why…..

It was about gays being homophobic and how I used to be like that. It was also about how growing up in a conservative city with no proper sex education, no gay people to talk to, and only getting impression of "the gays" from TV and social media made it really hard to grow up gay.

And also about how incel visitors on this site reflect this "never met a gay person irl" experience with their retarded views.

And how I still have to overcome this shit on the daily personally….

Anyways, that was the gist. I am not rewriting it sorry.


>more so than perhaps ever
Yeah that's why it sucks. Right now is the best it's ever been. The board only recently moved to be more tolerant of LGBT than before and only because mainstream politics have become so reactionary and bleak that only absolute psychotic retards can maintain the "anti-idpol" gorkyposting stance. Yet we still have several of those around here.


Thanks anon. They say media representation and misrepresentation doesnt matter except to liberals, but they forget how we are atomized and not even told we exist in school. They say we don't need education in schools because well learn about it from our parents. But they never learned about it either and instead learned homophobia. Its an uphill battle on many fronts.


Idk, I was anti-idpol back in the old days and it wasn't Gorky shit. It wasn't homophobic. This is something new. Anti-idpol was coopted by the nazbol/incel/infracel/gorky-posters, which I guess looking back was an absolute inevitability. Anti-idpol started out naively rejecting radlib social justice in favor of vulgar unironic class reductionism but then developed into a nuanced classed analysis of social justice issues including LGBT and racial issues. The reactionary idpol posters were contained and at most could post in a single thread, but then even that was not allowed. Also the anti-idpol position stopped being relevant when the insane radlib shit was still relevant. It peaked in late 2015, and it has been irrelevant for a few years now.

So, who the fuck knows where these new morons are coming from. Their anti-idpol shit is not from leftypol. It was concocted elsewhere.


It's really hard growing up gay, and just judging by my experience I can't imagine what growing up trans is like. Honestly, if you're here, and you're queer 😜 you deserve a big pat on the back. No one can tell you you haven't accomplished anything because you fucking did.

Another part of the non existent post was about some gay guy I know about that has the same taste in music and the same quirks. But he's very anti- "scene twink gay". Sounds so similar to me I almost want to call him up and beg him to re-think his entire thing he has going on in his head. I just wished I could have had some guidance like that.

I also wished I could've grown up being honest about my crushes, and maybe even have a bf in highschool. But alas. Our childhoods are stolen from us.

Yet another part of the non existent post tied in this idea of stolen childhood with homeless LGBT population and the absolutely horrid conversion therapy camps still active to this day, many of which are nothing more than child abuse camps where horrible, unspeakable things happen to children, frequently unbeknownst to their parents.

And to have the liberal conservatives cash in on the horrible prosecution and ostracizing of LGBT people is fucking insane.


Meh, I went to a school with pride flags and shit, but it didn't mean anything. You'd still get ostracized for being unabashedly "queer" and getting called "faggot" was a regular expectation. It's just a bunch of colors on a piece of cloth or paper.


Commies have been historically extreme homophobic and actually genocidal towards LGBT so this is just leftards returning to their roots, I mean, Che used to send gays to the wall

Only Capitalist Liberal Democracies have recognized LGBT rights and struggle


USSR literally executed gays by order of Stalin because according to them they were bourgeois fun, same in Cuba

In North Korea you are literally sent to a concentration camp if you're LGBT

Even Muslim countries treat LGBT better than commie ones


It has never been illegal in the history of Korea. Same for Vietnam and Laos. Meanwhile in Philippines there are gay marriages carried out by Maoist guerrillas since 2005.
At that time in the liberal USA the President was advocating a constitutional ban on gay marriage in his country.


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>genocidal towards LGBT


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ok homophobe


Am I the only gay who doesn't like anal? As long as I can remember it's just been cock cock cock.


Nah, ancient gays used to hate anal. They did intercrural sex for the most part, lubricating the thighs with olive oil or other kinds of oil then fucking in between them.


Do you mean the ancient Greeks actually addressed anorectal violence??


>Che used to send gays to the wall
wrong. there were labor camps for homosexual men only, and even then, only specifically bottoms (since in the Cuban conception of masculinity at the time, topping was still considered masculine). So it was specifically bottom-phobic, and not homophobic. In any case, Castro put an end to those camps, and later apologized for them as being wrong. So communists are capable of reforming their ideas around these social issues. This is why they are so hotly debated among communists. Not because we care about this stuff more than class, but because we agree on class, and all our discussions end up being about hashing out our differences so we can form a united front. I tend towards anti-bigotry because it allows for the widest proletarian coalition possible. Dismissing LGBT people (not liberal institutions like think tanks, but the masses themselves) as "bourgeois" is retarded in my opinion because bourgeois has a strict economic definition. You own means of production. Trying to create a cultural definition of bourgeois that acts as a dragnet to catch marginalized groups is reactionary and forms a smaller coalition against capital. It also pushes potential allies away. Castro apologized for the UMAP camps. Che was killed before his mind was changed, but Cuba was incredibly based in general. They sent troops to South Africa to fight apartheid. They weren't without their failures but I look up to Burkina Faso and Cuba probably the most.


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Also, furthermore, adding to my previous post above (sankara poster), even if the things you said were true, and not simply exaggerations of the truth, the lesson that should be taken away is not that LGBT should become liberal capitalists, but simply that communists should treat LGBT better, and integrate anti-bigotry as part of the wider proletarian struggle, since bigotry is a side effect of the bourgeoisie trying to divide the proletariat on issues of identity, and get them to oppress and scapegoat each other on that basis. The contradictions of capital are going to have to be resolved one way or another, because of tendency of rate of profit to fall, development of the global south catching up with the global north leaving capitalists without places to outsource to, population growth, proletarianization of the remaining rural and tribal people, and climate change. We have finite resources and finite time to solve these issues, and bourgeois political economy, however anti-bigotry it may pretend to be, in order to score a PR victory over communism, is only going to get you so far.


Not to mention Cuba's new family code makes it by far the best place to live for sexual minorities in North America, if not the world


Liberal brainrot.
Very common. People call them "sides". As in, not top nor bottom. My ex and I were both tops so many times we just gave each other BJs and did other fun stuff that didn't involve anal. I give amazing BJs so it was fun lol.
Absolutely based and correct.


>2014 revolution happened over treaty with EU
2014 protests were co-opted by CIA-backed reactionaries. Yanukovych refused an IMF loan because the interest rate was too high. He took a better deal with Russia that had lower interest rates and cheap energy. There were organic protests against him, but these were taken advantage of by the USA who put took the opportunity to fund right wing gangs to infiltrate the protests and coup the government. Yatsenyuk was put in power, Victoria Nuland said "Fuck the EU," and Yatsenyuk took out a huge IMF loan with structural adjustment programs that put ukrainian farmland into the hands of foreign investors and carried out mass privatizations that impoverished multiple people. The US-backed government that replaced Yanukovych was also very reactionary and integrated nazi militias into the larger military. Azov, C14, Svoboda, and right sector were the vanguard of the US-backed coup.

Listen to this video I've attached. These Banderite nazis literally admit that protests were mostly pro-liberalization, and would have "devolved into a pride parade" had they not shown up and taken control of the movement. These guys were getting money and weapons from the National Endowment For Democracy (a CIA front since the 80s) before the civil war began. The separatists were massacred in a union hall in Odessa in 2014 by US-backed reactionaries. That is the focal point around which the civil war began. There was also oppression based on language. The large Russian-speaking population centers in East Ukraine that were integrated into the Ukrainian SSR under Lenin, Stalin, and Khruschev (each of whom gave Ukraine formerly Russian territory) now face oppression by Ukrainian nationalists and supremacists who are funded, armed, and trained by the West. That's why it's necessary to view this war as having been instigated through NATO expansion and clandestine western activity.


I've noticed that online I'm only particularly well liked buy gay men for some reason


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The Russian ruling class prefers a nationalist Ukraine over the gay parade version. This is completely missing from the ukraine threads' analysis. Russian actions have pushed Ukraine further to the right and prevented the liberals from getting influence as the opposition to Russian influence. For Russia, a liberal pro-EU Ukraine is the worst possible ideological opponent. Denazification was a cynical cover which was obvious to anyone with a brain since before the SMO. War only increases the influence of Nazis in Ukraine and now they are more influential than ever thanks not only to NATO but also Russia. The simplistic Russia-good narrative that is pushed in the Ukraine thread (probably because it's been coopted by Russian glowies) completely sidesteps this essential fact for a purely ideological pro-Russian line.

There is an easy test to tell whether the "denazification" is really genuine or a cynical cover for endless war and reactionary domestic politics. Why is the focus of Russian propaganda at this point is on anti-LGBT and heavily pro-nationalistic version of multipolarism? The obvious move to counter the reactionary turn not only in Ukraine but also Europe would be to embrace the now abandoned minority groups like LGBT and take the mantle of progress from the posturing western liberals. But Z-fags tell us that we must do the complete opposite and move with Ukraine and NATO further into reactionary barbaric nationalism, only a Russian (or whatever country you're in) version of it.


I heard a theory that russia believes that queers are a global cabal trying to push trans grooming and controlling the media to push people to sin in a satanic effort to cause people to turn away from god… or something like that anyway… kind of like modernized antisemitic conspiracy theories but directed at gays, which really helps to understand why theyre so autistically fixated on evil western liberalism, and this even shows in RT which talks about sjw cringe compilations and nonbinaries. The desatanization is obviously correlated with this.
The question is, does pushing this line work? I think it does. The right wing in america for example is shitting up politics with these talking points and forcing the demcuck jannies to clean it up. I will say that right wingers are fairweather friends who will easily abandon their allies for the new flavor of the week political line, but on the other hand they are indeed unhinged enough to cause problems for things like the infrastructure and disabling power substations, which of course causes problems for the governmental jannies as well. It is really a gamble as to whether this will force america's attention to divert inwards rather than focusing on the ukraine war, or if it will just present a momentary disturbance that can easily be recovered from.


I can see how that sucks. For me though I never knew trans people existed. I don't even know how to explain that since it seems weird but I didn't know "being trans" is a thing that can happen to you. So I transitioned in my late 20s as a result. So ya its important to give good informative sex ed


>And all i was saying was that if you put your identity (heavily commodified i must add) ahead of the class struggle, you are helping porkies and in the end helping people who will actually persecute you.
Fuck off >>351697


And in this very thread there are people who say that they don't care about socialism unless it's full on gay luxury communism and who say they don't care about solidarity. And so far only one of you was even calling them out.

And the only thing you can respond to me saying that worker solidarity comes first is "fuck off". You may not think of yourself as liberals, but you know, if it quacks like a duck…


LGBT issues are class issues dumbass.


Rather LGBT issues stem from class issues. Which should mean that class issues take priority. But for you it somehow mean that any bullshit liberal media invents is supposedly should be the first issue for all workers.


Queer acceptance is a non-negotiable part of revolutionary politics. I don't really care about your kvetching about liberals because you're too retarded to understand this.


sometimes i get the impression that a lot of anti-idpol folk just want to punish the fags for making the left "Cringe" in their eyes despite the fact that hippies, lisa simpson and the like have been in the mainstream conscious for decades. So out of revenge they gorky post and say they'll put us in gulags because it's our fault the left is kind of dead in most parts of the world and why it's our fault that the USSR collapsed or whatever. It's just a desire to take out their anger on someone.


>Queer acceptance is a non-negotiable part of revolutionary politics
If you expect every worker to hold progressive views before the society itself changes, you are an idiot. In fact if you are giving an ultimatum that you will not support the revolution and worker's movement unless they all agree with you on all points in the end you guys may not be part of the revolution (if it happens) at all and the resulting society at least for some time gonna be less tolerant than i would wish for it to be. You are also giving ammo to people who think that lgbt is porky psy op. And of course you are putting your identity ahead of your class.

You can't refute those points which is why insults is your only answer.


Proles that don't hold progressive views don't have revolutionary potential, because they'd rather the existing system just get rid of the problem people getting in the way of capitalism working as they believe it should. That isn't an ultimatum, that's an observation. Now go back to the /Ukraine/ containment thread.


>t. Has never done any organizing in their entire life


Shut the fuck up and stop treating us as one block of people retard.


And even if lgbt people did not support socialism on average, which is true of all proles in many places, it doesn't mean they dont deserve full rights. Socialism isn't a cult of who's in and out beforehand, its liberation of all proles.


Anon self crit you're coning in the lgbt thread telling us we should sacrifice ourselves for your made up revolution that for some reason resembles one from a century ago in its reactionary characteristics. Its 2020 were going to defend ourselves now stfu and fuck off


>Its 2020
2020 was five years ago.


>if you are lgbt and you don't let us put you in camps because you don't understand that you're not a "part of the revolution" then you are "our" enemy
T. Reactionary larpers


Why the fuck should I fight for reactionary shit?


You're so concerned that lgbt people aren't dedicated enough to your revolution you have in your head that you can't extend any solidarity to us whatsoever and keep threatening that well be excluded or some shit. Literally kys you are proving to not be a socialist at all but some populist


Any supposedly socialist country not doing scientific socialist emulation of social policies that result in better lives for LGBT people is missing out on such low hanging fruit that in this era it becomes questionable whether they have any dedication to socialism. They may be focusing on contradictions far removed from socialism like imperialism, but a time comes when it's no longer acceptable to maintain the original capitalist subjugation of identity groups.

If your supposed socialist revolutionaries come to my door and say its time to go to the LGBT camp because the population isn't progressive enough yet and I don't understand historical materialism and expect things too fast, they're getting a icepick to the head, not calm compliance as I'm hauled off. If they refuse me and other LGBT people our rights we will protest, and if they're too blind to understand the difference between legitimate protest and western backed color revolution attempts, then I'm sorry but they're incompetent and I doubt they are even capable of achieving socialism, which is a radical revolution. If their revolution isn't radical enough to grant us full rights equivalent to everyone else, how can you be thinking its radical enough to overthrow capitalism? It can't even overthrow spooks like anti-lgbt mentalities justifying their material oppression under capitalism, let alone capitalism itself lmao So fuck you.


>But yes, women in USA working in some chicken meat factory 12 hours a day that has to piss herself because she is not allowed to leave the belt and whose hands are deformed from cutting chicken all day is more important to me than gay weddings. A congolese boy who has to get in the hole in the earth to mine coltan so first worlders can complain on twitter is more important to me than the fact that trans women are put into men prisons (especially if that trans women is some porky who got into minimal security resort for rich people). Because i have empathy for other people and don't get my priorities fucked up. That's what we have to abolish first and foremost.
See >>351697
>pretend third world lgbt people don't exist and don't matter
You're doing it again fucking retard get out of this thread


Idk what the original post you replying to is, but the answer is, no, he wasnt.


Yes he was, to say he wasn't is orientalist at best racist at worst


Based jannies


is the haz fbi.gov raiding here


>we need to only represent sections of the proletariat who don't have a history of capitalists manufacturing hate and oppression against them in the past
Tailism and definitely not the most advanced proletariat, yet larping as party committee members deciding LGBT people "aren't part of the revolution" lmao.


They're always gonna be around, they popped up when people were making fun of PatSocs in leftypol.


i just have to ask why the fuck are they trying to impress people that nobody think is even cool anymore. Even the edgiest youtuber types are like "Hey yeah those people are fucking losers"


because they're in a cult.


He was a fucking peasant warlord, China never had communist revolution, it was a national liberation movement, Jesus Fucking Christ, development of national bourgeoisie was one of goals of Maos government.


Yeah so they can develop their productive forces and have a means of production to even seize. Now they have most of the worlds means of production. It was a good bet they won, and its all under control of the CPC


>Now they have most of the worlds means of production.
Right, so, socialism any minute now?


Marx and Engels would've done the exact same had they been in the room, China was a feudal society at the time, expecting Mao to implement the system from Critique of the Gotha program would've been insane.


And how exactly is that a counter-argument to what I said? Communism is a proletarian movement, not peasant one.


The peasantry had to proletarianize itself before that emancipation is possible, that's the harsh lesson of the Great Leap Forward, the CPC continues this mission


So the communism is about turning peasants into proles? Seems we already have actually existing communism then.


They won't because they benefit from it. The real working class opposes their bourgois brainwashing.


"Denouncing NATO" has nothing to do with the working class or socialism


picking out one part of a post to disagree with doesn't imply you agree with the rest of the post

but yes


You do understand that they have banned him because he shat on "multipolarism" and not because he was homophobic? The post they have deleted was the one where he made fun of ziggers and their position, but left the ones where he shat on lgbt?


Based thigh fuckers


Haz's fbi.gov is having another round at it.


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last time i saw someone say that was a closet faggot

namely a faggot that returned to the closet.
i wonder whatever happened to they/them

cute femboy

oh just one more thing, when you said "fags" i notice a slight movement on your leg almost like a reflex.

but i might just be seeing things…


Hey the jannies were pretty quick this time.


>It's 2020


Its all so tiresome girls…


They didn't ban him because he was homophobic tho


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why do normies hate asexuality ?


For the same reason they hate homosexuals, which is envying not having to deal with opposite sex.


even though the contradiction exists within the AES countries they never go as far as outright illegalization now. That and Cuba is outright favorable when it comes to gay adoption and state-funded sex changes. China's equivalent of the Oprah Winfry show is hosted by a transgender woman and has pretty boys on it

the dialectical will shift in our favor organically, over time


Also envy over not being compromised by sexual desire.


>China's equivalent of the Oprah Winfry show is hosted by a transgender woman and has pretty boys on it

Sounds cool. Do you have a clip or a name? Oprah was mega lame, but I hate Ellen Degenerous way more.


God still loves you.


Fuck off


Exactly mods are homophobic too this is why I don't even bother discussing realpolitik anymore, I just come here for the lgbt general and for porn


Which one we talking about?


plenty of commie countires have legal lgbt relations while the majority of capitalist ones will put you in prison for it

eat poop


they did it in a time where globally being gay was illegal and considered a mental illness

lgbt marirage is legal in cuba now and fidel recongised he was wrong to do that and apologised

liberal capitalist democracies where one of the slowest on the uptake you retard lmao, it was illegal in the UK up till 1999 with cuba changing there stance on this in the 80s shows how much you actually know


also homophoboia to begin with was a western export, it came from religion/orthodox christianty and the reason it got exported globally is because of imprealism


lastly it being legal doesnt really matter when a new lgbt club gets shot up every weekend in america tard


I may leave or get banned, but God's love will always be with you to the apocalypse and the ends of the earth and to the rest of eternity. I talk about the love of God and you reply with anger, i pity you.
The trinity of the Christian God.


Shove this Jewish nonsense uo your holy butthole mate

Abrahamic filth must be destroyed and erased from Earth


That's is a genetic fallacy, The jews despises Jesus and Christianity.


>Ethan Klein

>I'm doing a mock execution of Jesus this Christmas.

Loads of Christians already do that lmao. The crucifixion of Jesus is kind of central to the religion.


No they are not.
Well said. btfod


I don't know if you're purposely being oblivious or if you really aren't aware but it should be obvious the difference between Christians redoing a mock execution and someone mockingly wanting to kill Christ again.



> if you want to see the images just go to this random guys twitter feed and scroll until your fingers fall off lmao


"Waaahhhh I'm a christoid and I'm triggered waaahhhhhh!!!!"
Literally no-one cares
You fuck off too, probably a false-flagging christoid


>Literally no-one cares
You cared enough to reply. I was correcting someone, i wasn't triggered.


You are triggered by some comedians mocking your superstition


Are you declaring that to be truth? Because it's not true, the satanic world has always hated Christ, i'm used to it now. If Jesus was a part of the world, it would love him as one of their own, but it doesn't and i'd rather Christ be hated by the satanic new world order. It's not a superstition, there is evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.


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Get help.


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how boilerplate



>Such diversity as covered in this report is acceptable as long as the full historicity of the creation account is accepted.” (PCA Historical Center, http://www.pcahistory.org/creation/report.html) The authors of the study recognize that Bible-believing Christians will disagree on how Genesis 1 is to be interpreted, in particular as it relates to the age of the earth. This is not an essential issue that should divide Christians
I have no respect of people this chickenshit about their believes.


to add to that, but this might just be anecdotal, a lot of the furries i've encountered on the internet - esp those who do own fursuits - are dumb rich americans. i don't see why we should bundle them with the lgbt community.


*if they're straight furries sorry i forgot to add


That's how citation works. It just happens that what's being cited is on twitter.


>I wrote it as a result of a struggle. I began my college years with a lot of hurt, anger, and bitterness. I was mad at my father—your grandfather— for being an alcoholic and for destroying my family. I was also angry at Wayne Bailey, the man who worked on our farm, for sexually abusing me from ages six to thirteen

what is wrong with anglo societies, everyone seemed to get NONCED


what the fuck does this have to do with the thread


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May this coming year be a year of being surrounded by other wholesome loving queer people.

Thank you!! I enjoyed what I watched.


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>>353824 happy new year sister ❤🏳️‍🌈☭


Who would you say is the best queer socialist? Doesn't have to be someone who wrote about queer theory, but open to recommendations.


Not every Christian is a nazi.



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>not every child abuser is a child murderer


Leonid Brezhnev


you came into the thread ostensibly to remind people of God's love, but we're not stupid. We know that the subtext was "god still loves you in spite of the fact that you're gay, which he sees as bad" This, coupled with your condescending "pity" for us untermensch makes it clear what you're trying to do. It wasn't about love at all!


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>We know that the subtext was "god still loves you in spite of the fact that you're gay, which he sees as bad"
No one lives up to the standard of God, i also sin, and God still loves me in spite of my sin.
>This, coupled with your condescending "pity" for us untermensch makes it clear what you're trying to do. It wasn't about love at all!
One of the reasons i'm not a nazi is because i'm non-white, I couldn't reply with a "fuck you" or something because that wouldn't be a good demonstration of God's love, all i could do was show pity. I volunteer at a ministry giving food and prayer to the poor and homeless (just like mutual aid) and we have many kinds of people we help that include the lgbt. I'm not saying that to say "i'm good" or anything for helping people (i believe there is no such thing as a good person) it's just to show you that i don't hate gay people, and i wasn't looking down on you, you are my brothers and sisters in God, even if you reject him. I have the love of God and want to share it.


If there's a large scale controlling consciousness of the universe they definitely aren't a man with weird shitty opinions about where the dick goes into the hole


being ok with LGBT people is the most minimum bar to be a decent human being, sorry to say. Jesus did the whole "throw a rock" thing on a prostitute, 2000 years later, his followers and particularly his representatives (notorious child rapists, btw) are the ONLY ONES casting stones to LGBT people and sex workers. The whole jesus being God thing might be legit, but all forms of christianity are the biggest fucking farce on the face of the Earth and almost all christians are hypocritical anti-jesus scumfuck. It would be funny if it wasn't tragic and responsible for the mistreatment, lifelong trauma, and death of so many people around the world throughout the ages and still continuing to this day.

"B-b-b-but I'm one of the good ones!" Highly doubt it. Literally all christians say this.
It is wild to think that a God could create such a vast and intricate universe, and placed us in such a confusing and intricate reality that is predicated on benefiting of slavery, colonialism, and exploitation, for the bare survival of oneself, and the thing the almighty cares about is who you open your heart to?

Our every day lives depends on so much suffering and the thing these idiots decide to focus on is who we decide to spend our time with? Oh noo, not the peepee in the anus! Come the fuck on. What a childish God lmfao.


>The whole jesus being God thing might be legit


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going to say it now
nobody who goes on image boards is a sincerely religious.


meant regardless of whether Jesus is God or the son of God , or the Son of the Father, or whatever the fuck the right one is, it doesn't change the fact that His followers are proper shitbags that do the opposite of what Jesus preached for.

To reiterate, the jesus-followers are the LEAST jesus-like of them all. Supporting slavery, colonialism, child-rape, anti-communist, support corrupt governments and drug cartels in the global south, etc etc.

Religious people in general are the fucking worst people. As ČIAžek correctly says, you need God to be an evil cunt.


I think a way of thinking about it is like, christianity was an anarchic form of community building/welfare that was co-opted by rulers as all religions are - if buddhism could be co-opted in tibet then christianity is definately co-optable

don't blame anon for being a religious schizo, the opiod of the masses is that, something that soothes these people in the face of what can be best described is the secular version of life under a gnostic demiurge


My belief is that the process of creation and suffering is just the eternal torment that the supreme being is trapped in.

God is the only real thing in existence.
>Solitary limitless existence is lonely and tortuous
>an imaginary creation of limitations and seperations is created as a diversion
>perfect unity is achieved again
>Solitary limitless existence is lonely and tortuous

There is no end goal or other or outside. We are the outside. There is no subject and context because we are the context. There is no other and we will be lonely for all eternity going through or lonely madness.


people feel boredom because of the structure of their brain, why would even an AI feel boredom?


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AI? I believe that god is the natural state of everything. Perfect consciousness. Perfect existence. I guess you can find similarity to those stupid "AI simulation" hypotheses. But the whole thing about an AI simulation hypothesis is that someone built the AI. The key difference is there is no one who built this shit other than the central "being" if you will. The AI hypothesis is clinging to the illusion that there is always a separation and a context to reach. I'm saying the truth is that there is no context to reach because we are the context. The container and the contained. The thing that exists without any creator.

So why feel boredom? I dunno, I guess it's the central defect of existence? What would a permanent end of time entail? These are concepts that are hard to rationalize for us in our current existence. Time and space are just limitations we create to slow down the feelings of eternity. Why do people use drugs or play games or watch movies or etc? It's all a product of the central consciousness that animates our universe. All evolution is pointing to the eternal and universal but then the eternal and universal points back to ignorance and repeat.

It's hard to rationalize. Complete cyclicality. I guess from my perspective it's impossible to rationalize. It can never be over.


And regards to desire to finding a context, that's the central torture of existence. We all want a context. But we will never find one because we are that context. The desire to find one that doesn't exist will lead us to another creation of ignorance and limitation and the illusion we can find one.


"Men don't come as manly as they used to"
or so they say.

I find this obsession with other peoples manliness so bizarre. Why do you dislike that men aren't manly enough for you? Shouldn't that just make you manlier by comparison? I lived through the bisexual emo phase of the 2005s. Kids these days have nothing on the OG femboy trend of this millennia.


The heteronormative idea of masculinity, and its negation, emasculation, are BOTH misogyny.
Bigotry towards LGBT people largely stems from this same misogyny.

This doesn't mean that masculine traits are misogyny.

>>355413 (me)
Oh shit. I had already posted this video. Here's another.


>being ok with LGBT people is the most minimum bar to be a decent human being, sorry to say.
I choose God's standard of what a decent human being is, and that is no one is a decent human being.
>his followers and particularly his representatives (notorious child rapists, btw)
This meme is false and hypocritical, as if there are only pedophiles in Christianity or the Right wing. Pic related. Nothing in the bible promotes pedophilia, slavery, colonialism, child-rape, anti-communist, support corrupt governments (the OT is specifically anarchistic) and drug cartels. the bible talks about making the best of your situation and being for Christ despite being a slave, but not slavery itself.
>Jesus did the whole "throw a rock" thing on a prostitute
I'm pretty sure he said "he who is without sin caste the first stone" but he didn't throw a stone.
>are the ONLY ONES casting stones to LGBT people and sex workers.
Christians are not the only ones "casting stones" at LGBT and sex workers, lots of right wing non-Christians are against them. and there are socialists who are against lgbt. You're side isn't as progressive as you'd like it to be. The LGBT and sex work is self-destructive.
>The whole jesus being God thing might be legit, but all forms of christianity are the biggest fucking farce on the face of the Earth and almost all christians are hypocritical anti-jesus scumfuck.
It's not the healthy but the sick who need a physician. fun Christians prove the bible is right that humanity is addicted to sin and need to search God more. God respects freewill, if a Christian doesn't want to let go of his sin then he will give him up to a reprobate mind. Christianity is still true even if every Christian is a sinner.
>"B-b-b-but I'm one of the good ones!" Highly doubt it. Literally all christians say this.
You just want to strawman me again. I specifically said i'm not saying i'm good, and i didn't compromise my belief system to appear worldly affirming to you, The bible says to love your neighbor and even our enemies, i don't consider you my enemy but i am commanded by God to love you regardless.

Read the Case for Christ, it shows evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. page 174 PART 3 Researching the Resurrection there are four chapters on the resurrection alone.


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What does this dude even mean by "masculinity"? The way people talk about sexism seems like 99% of the time they are trying to defeat it by naming the problem, but that name - patriarchy, masculinity, toxic masculinity - is never clearly defined. What exactly is it structurally and how do you concretely go about combating it? Tiktok gurus and the like seem to just gloss over this, the actual point.


fascists have been whinging about this decline of manliness since the 1920s


Masculinity in this context is:
- Machismo
- The concept known as toxic masculinity
- male chauvinism
- the historically contingent contemporary male gender role

The way this person is using masculinity is basically synonymous with machismo, which is like "alpha male" male chauvinism plus normative traditional gender roles meaning that it presupposes as "correct" the traditional gender roles of both genders.

Patriarchy refers to the fact that society has historically and still is mostly made for men. It also implies that men is the default and women are "not men", that is, negatively defined as different from the "normal". It also implies that males have privilege in many different ways that women in the same class, ethinicity, geographical location, etc. don't.

toxic masculinity in short is men being male chauvinists and putting down other men. It has to do with dominance and emasculation between men. it is also the set of values that moralizes negatively "female/weak" characteristics, like showing/acknowledging pain in one's body (part of why men die more and go less to the doctor), crying or showing emotion, etc.

structurally it is harder to define but it basically boils down to men having more readily integration to the economy whereas women either have to jump through hoops, are discriminated against, or are expected to stay at home.

the point of the video is not to change anything externally, but to change it in oneself, eg overcoming the trauma related to growing up and existing in an environment where toxic masculinity is common.


Got told by my retard failson friend that being gay isn't natural because of some rat study from the 20s (I'm pretty sure I know which one)

I love the naturalistic fallacy straights use as if a mild overpopulation leading to homosexuality isn't already an indication that it is completely natural as overpopulation is common in the record before agriculture. Also you're welcome for the magnificent culture.


>I'm not an asshole because of a book of fables from one specific world religion I arbitrarily imprinted onto as a result of being born at a particular time and place

ok dude


Let's do one better

> I believe in a beneficent all knowing being that throws millions of people into hell for not having been born in a country which was exposed to Christianity

You'd think an all powerful entity would have tied that loophole.


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catholics will drag out the "doctrine of invincible ignorance" if you mention this. very fancy form of cope


the rat utopia one which people soyface about but then realize that there was a massive issue with how much space those rats have?


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And God will stand with Jesus, Trump and Reagan, looking through your voting records to see if you made sure to vote a straight GOP ticket. And the people were divided in two, one went to Heaven to sing God's praises at a giant Trump rally for all eternity while the others were casted into the fiery lake of fire, to be burned forever. Do you think that you will be joining that Trump rally? Did you ever lie, go to a rave, masturbate to your waifu, join a union, demand a raise, buy an electric car or vote for a socialist meme candidate? Then you are going straight to Hell for disobeying God's almighty word and the ONLY way to Heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior.


>Read the Case for Christ, it shows evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. page 174 PART 3 Researching the Resurrection there are four chapters on the resurrection alone.

this bizarrely formatted PDF can't even do line breaks right. it immediately starts off with an appeal to the authority of one Robert J. Stein who I am unable to find and article about but I am sure is some apologist who attended a degree mill. Then it starts bizarrely ranting about Islam's rejection of the crucifixion, as though that were at all relevant to the supernatural claims about Jesus. Jesus can be a real person who was crucified. What atheists and agnostics refuse to believe is the supernatural claims about him. The worldly claims about him (a guy who preached, and was crucified) are relatively uncontroversial.

Then it rants about the anatomy of a crucifixion, how nails are driven through the wrists, and not the palms. This is apparently mind blowing to the author but not really relevant. Then they drag in hucksters like William Lane Craig. This shit is such a slog to read… like this is some bog standard apologetics snoozefest. They're dragging in apologists from degree mills to say some basic historical facts and then get it mixed up with supernatural claims.


>the ONLY way to Heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior.
specifically Nordic Jesus. Not that olive-skinned Palestinian


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>not accepting zyuranger as your personal lord and savior


> imagine having a parent that puts you in a garden filled with delicious but poisonous fruit and then punishes not only you but everyone of your progeny for eternity for eating it.

and we call this god loving and wise.


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what sort of emotion is this expression supposed to convey


I think because they're obsessed with Jesus dying for their sins, so if he didn't die on the cross a pretty large chunk of their theology doesn't;'t work.


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He sent himself to lift the curse he himself put on us. He knowingly sent himself to Earth to be killed. It's basically suicide. The motherfucker has been sending everyone to eternal damnation for millennia, then has a change of heart, so to cover his ass, he pretends to "sacrifice" himself for us to remove the curse he put on us. That's like beating someone up, then mid way you slap yourself and claim that you sacrificed yourself by slapping yourself so that you stopped beating the person.

That's not all, he demands you be grateful for his "sacrifice". Like bro, maybe don't fuck us over in the firs place?

Also, he literally invented the first The Game game. In the Game, whenever you remember the Game, you lose. The only way to not lose in The Game is to not know of it ever.

If you don't know about Jesus, you're fine, but if you know about Jesus and DON'T follow him then you will be cast to a eternity of damnation. STOP telling people about Jesus you fucking morons. After a few generations we'll all be going to heaven without following bizarre rules and doing the whole listening-to-rapists-preaching-shit Sunday ritual.

Also, the original sin is fucked. Adam and Eve literally didn't have a conception of anything. And God already knew they were going to eat from the apple. So this sicko freak put a forbidden fruit because he knew Adam and eve were going to eat it. That is basically entrapment but worse, then punished millions of generations for millennia for it, all around the world.

What a fucking joke of a God. Literally the most sick fuck you could ever imagine.


top kek it took me a minute


No, you don't understand. The Garden of Eden is an allegory for the rise of civilization and division of labour and the subsequent alienation of man from his natural habitat. This is why after Adam and Eve fell to the temptation of the serpent (logic, "to be the same as God") what followed is societal oppression and conservatism represented by the need for clothing (shame about nakedness, the repression of orgonal energy resulting in exaggerated politeness) and the submission of wife to husband accompanied with pain of childbirth (subjugation of female sexuality to maintain societal cohesion of the patriarchy)
The Genesis(or at least the later version) is a very, very socially progressive document.


>I think because they're obsessed with Jesus dying for their sins, so if he didn't die on the cross a pretty large chunk of their theology doesn't;'t work.
even if he did die the theology doesn't work. Just because a guy walked around Judea, preached, and got crucified by Pontius pilate and the pharisees, doesn't mean he rose from the dead, performed miracles, or saved mankind by sacrificing himself. The idea that a random execution that took place 2000 years ago saved all of mankind is absurd. Christians simultaneously want to be mad at the Pharisees for killing Jesus (or, in some cases, mad at literally every jew), while viewing it as this necessary and important thing. Shouldn't Judas be upheld as a hero who enabled the all-important sacrifice to happen? wasn't jesus's unjust persecution a part of his sacrifice? The story makes no sense. Why would the creator of the universe choose to save its subjects by incarnating himself as a random preacher on a random planet at a random point in history, and get himself persecuted by a random community, and executed by a random government. What an arbitrary thing to latch onto. It's almost like it's a byproduct of a culture in a certain time and place rather than something with universal or eternal relevance.


I dont think it really matters whether its logically consistent because whenever you look at these protestant posters, they always emphasise their personal story of salvation
its some variation of they went to liberal college, went off the rails smoking reefer and having sex, and dabbled in atheism and satanism, getting to bit to heavy playing with a Ouija board, then fell into alcoholicsim and found Christ at rock bottom, when they brake down and cry. thats why they''re never going to scrutinise it too much, they fear if they look into it too much, their faith will fall apart, and they'\ll turn into a homosexual liberals


these people should save themselves through personal growth, class solidarity, and direct action instead of needing a the blood of a man from 2000 years ago


>You'd think an all powerful entity would have tied that loophole.
God did that. No one has to go to hell if they don't want to, that was the point of the sacrifice of Jesus, so you don't have to go to hell.


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what do i get


I need Christians to shut their fucking mouth because you, like the rest of the religious primitives, are not in the position to clown anyone for dumb arguments.


reminder this exists:
great resource if you're planning on reading the bible.
yeah yeah, we know. God sent himself to kill himself to save us from the curse he himself put on us. So noble and totally makes so much sense.

Post some gender theory or some gay shit, come on cumrags. I'll post something to spice things up.


Socialize more friends


>Your arguments aren't valid if I put them in a bingo card, checkmate atheists


And Christians tell us the bible teaches us morals. The whole concept of hell throws the idea of a loving or beneficent God out the window because he knows fully well the countless billions he send to eternal damnation before they take a single action.


I may be drunk but that image gave me a thought. What if "white power" became a code word for "cum on my face". Would Neo Nazis still say it proudly?


even the concept of worshiping a dead god is fucking insane. But go to any church and youll see Jesus hanging on the cross.




You can make sense of the theology of the redemption through Christ but to do that you'd have to say God was a retard who had to experience life, suffering, and agonizing death as a human in human form before he understood the magnitude of what he was putting himanity through and realizing he was being awful and then forgiving everyone out of embarrassment. But then really that's more of a redemption for God than for humanity.


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Again, the Christian portrayal of God is autistic projection.


obssessed closet christian poop sniffer who is also a pedo + american which means there wife (unethical one sided non-mono for the women) is at least 500 pounds and has diabetes rip


ooh, devil please say more!




all fake quotes lol


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i truly do wonder why people are becoming less religious assuredly it can't be your holy ass' fault


The only thing I have to say to/about you is that the way you are behaving with this shit is the reason your religion is falling apart. You would be better off just keeping this to yourselves instead of antagonizing people. This isn't a thread to discuss religion, so why are you here? To go on the offensive against people your book tells you are bad (according to some translations).


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The "born this way" rhetoric is ultimately conservative and anti-marxist, as is any LGBT bigotry but that goes without saying.


true, but frankly i don't give a shit if it helps some kid on the brink of getting kicked out by his retarded parents


There are underlying biological factors to gayness/transness but people only "become" gay or trans because of the way their culture categorizes certain traits or behaviors.


>enter lgbt thread
>It's just a religion thread


Christcucks really should be forcefemmed and turned into boywifes.


gay identity is a historical identity (one that arguably didn't exist until the early 20th century) but homosexuality is not and is common in the entire anthropological record. That certain environmental/social factors may contribute to more prevalence of it is not proof that it isn't just as 'natural' as heterosexuality.

this is the problem with the mainstream debate they confuse a historical identity (transgender/gay as seen in a firstie country) with the underlying biological process (gender dysphoria and homosexuality).


also no I don't use ovarit, I just needed a picture of terfs


>Assault progressive women with slightly different views than you!!


What are you even talking about? What slightly different views? Point out where so I can spit in their general direction.


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>"uhm uh oh! not le women folks my guys! nuh nuh nuh! you need to take a step back from le hellsite if you act like le incel! all womens are queen and always right you frigging chinlet, le mao said it!"


Transsisters you might never be a w*man but you will always be my comrade <3


you will never be a marxist


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(mods this is le wholesome don't ban blease)


This is exactly my sentiment. Obviously there will always be leftists who will never fully agree with the transgender stuffs, just like how there will always be religious socialists who will never agree with Marx's Materialism and LGBTQ+ comrades who think that China or Vietnam is too reactionary. But that doesn't matter since we are all comrades against economic inequality, against class oppression and against intolerant totalitarianism


>Obviously there will always be leftists who will never fully agree with the transgender stuffs,
Yeah, and you're a fucking retard for being one of them. It's not that you're evil, or bad, or meanie. You're just stupid, slow, uneducated. Take your pick.


You really felt the need to type that out?


>religious socialists who will never agree with Marx's Materialism
you are literally retarded


>there will always be leftists who will never fully agree with the transgender stuffs
Last I checked reactionaries weren't leftists buddy


>Obviously there will always be leftists who will never fully agree with the transgender stuffs
Marxists who "never fully agree" with a type of person? You're opposed to certain types of people? How is that a Marxist position? have you even read Marx? Fucking dimwit


these motherfuckers keep larping as their racist caricatures of third-world marxists "who just don't know any better but to hate minorities" to somehow "convince the working class" without realizing that they are the freaks here and they're the ones that people don't wanna listen to after decades of reactionary bourgeois media pushing anti-lgbt narratives. there's no compromise for the truth, and they would realize this on any other issue, but in this particular instance it works as a cope for their /pol/ convert biases


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Is LGBT regime pilled?


That isn't what that anon said. There is a difference between having issues against trans people versis not agreeing to a certain semantic on what is a man or woman versus and having issues with how the issue of gender dysphoria is approached. Though of course sometimes people use it as a shield but it's obvious because their views lack nuance like my view that there should be a more objective way to diagnose, so less mistakes are made, more treatment options available so they arent stuck with the only option being convert and for gender affirmation therapy to be improved in results and also for societal views to change revolving around gender and sex.


When i said convert i meant transition but you should have got what i meant.


Fuck off transphobe


we need gulags with trans guards unironically


How is anything I said even remotely transphobic? This must be bait or you're illiterate.


<<convert, brother


>my view that there should be a more objective way to diagnose
Your view is completely out of touch with reality. Most people don't even have accessible healthcare with regards to trans issues. And even when they do, doctors are woefully untrained on treating LGBT people in general, and trans people in particular. Ask anyone ffs. Ask LGBT people to talk to you about their experiences at the doctor. Don't even get me started on therapists and psychologists. My therapist told me the other day that I became gay because I had unresolved trauma. And he's a good therapist in general. The entire healthcare has just been majorly inadequate for LGBT people since forever. But that's just the healthcare part.

There are laws that prohibit people under the age of 26 of going through transition. 26! And you're demanding more "objective diagnosis"? Brah, you're seriously focusing on the most irrelevant part of the entire puzzle. Please check yourself because your post makes it sound like you've never encountered these realities ever in your entire life and instead think in the abstract about these issues, which would be real cringe, homie.


Not even sure if I should reply. Maybe you are taking me the wrong way because of the context of where i placed my reply. No these are very real things ive witnessed and experienced not abstracts. I have spoken to people, mainly friends, about their experiences and their desires to medically transition etc and have been seen as a person to lean on. I also have spoken to people including many friends who also have many different mental illnesses and people with autism and know intimate details about them and im fairly well versed in diagnoses so i know what kind of people might be misdiagnosed or it's just not clear if someone really is or isnt having gender dysphoria not from other causes. I myself started considered going on some kind of hormones like SERMs maybe because I want to look more feminine in my face like I used to be though dont quite know what i want to do with my body because i dont know if id like it more or less feminine or just androgynous. What im asking for isnt specific to anything related to trans only, which i have no bias againt since i dont believe in gender roles and have no issues with mody modification inherently, but just psychology in general is just not on par even just with the medical field and i would like it to be improved upon for better diagnosis and categorization of conditions and treatment aiming for least harm for the patients treated as individuals for personalized care. I dont want some impossible barrier where it's just outlawed with some arbitrary age bullshit which im against, I just want vulnerable people to not be exploited or be mistakenly mislead without proper precaution to their long term wellbeing whether that's not keeping them from transition or not letting them into irreversable medical transition when they are too mentally ill to make that decision without other issues addressed first. What you're asking is literally demanding doctors to pass out medication and surgeries to anyone llike candy or go through surgery for whoever asks for it like it's a haircut even if chance they may harm them just because the chance it may help them. That's playing dice with people's lives. Few people have the medical compitency to make an informed decision by themselves. Would you support someone having their pancreas removed without a doctor's order? Would you approve of someone with dissociative identity disorder to medically transition because one of their alters asked for it? What about medically transitioning a teenage girl who's tomboy who is always told she must be a guy because she doesnt conform to stereotypes of girls and regularly encouraged to transition by friends and snubbed whenever she questions it? Would you approve? If it were fully reversable and with no negative effects then id totally be in support of people changing their sex characteristics and even chromosomes (theoretically possible through gene editing) or whatever as much as they like without needing outside approval from medical experts and would maybe do it myself even at least for a while assuming it doesnt hurt too much but that seems far away unfortunately. This isnt cope or "concern trolling" or whatever you may try to claim next, I legitimately care about others as alien as that sounds on an image board which is why i hate chan culture and just subject myself to this bullshit because im lonely and dont like making accounts places. I dont place trans people above or below everyone else, theyre just people just the same to me.


>2nd pic
This so much
At this point I think the only way to do this is to move away from western LGBT ideology, reject the concept of "sexualities" altogether and adopt a pre-modern understanding of things

t. eastern euro bifag
Also bf may end up being send to Ukraine
LIfe is suffering


What do you mean by pre-modern? Where taking dick meant you were a woman and thus a piece of property? There's no reason to want that and it's impossible, the cat's out of the bag


Theyre banning 18-25 yos from transitioning?

After they banned smoking, drinking, guns, yet we are still expected to serve in military and go to jail.amd work, yet you deny them the right to transition?


>Check the account
That was a rabbit hole. Haz has really gone off the deep end


>What about medically transitioning a teenage girl who's tomboy who is always told she must be a guy because she doesnt conform to stereotypes of girls and regularly encouraged to transition by friends and snubbed whenever she questions it?
take your meds, this doesn't happen anywhere. if this was an issue that was as widespread as its opposite (trans people NOT having access to any healthcare) it'd be worth considering, but as it stands now, the primary goal is to provide people with affordable treatment instead of placing more institutional barriers to getting it. you're placing the discussion in a dillema where we have to choose between the wellbeing of trans people and "detransitioners" while ignoring that the situation of detransitioners, difficult as it may be, is statistically an extremely rare phenomenon even among the rare minority of trans people, and all they have to do to solve their issues is:
>a) think harder before they do something
>b) stop taking their hrt
it's that simple. if i went to the doctor back when i was 15 and wanting to kill myself and the doc told me
>well now you just have to wait for a year for me to give you the pills and then spend 2 years on puberty blockers because 5% of the 8% of the total population of trans pepo had realized that gender transition is not for them :)
i would assault him with a pair of dull scissors and hang myself soon after


>think harder before they do something
No offense, but this very stupid. In the first place, many people do think hard before taking a permanently life-altering decision that they later regret (like getting married).
Implying that detransitioners choose to reverse their transition because they aren't thinking hard enough is not helping anyone. All of this detransitioning nonsense could've been avoided if we introduce medical screening for people wanting to undergo transitionings. Like scanning their brain for example, instead of just giving hormones willy nilly


>>359587 (me)
>>359916 (not me)
Obviously agree with this statement. So I double down on your >>359390 response being out of touch with reality.


>it's that simple. if i went to the doctor back when i was 15 and wanting to kill myself and the doc told me
Your doctor should've given you SSRIs, then perform non-invasive procedures to determine whether you actually suffers from gender dysphoria before giving you sessions of scheduled hormone therapies.
The purpose of Gender Reassignment surgeries is NOT to cure suicidal tendencies or psychological imbalance. It is to help people cope with Gender Dysphoria, which is a detectable medical condition.


quoting their reply, emphasis mine,
> the primary goal is to provide people with affordable treatment instead of placing more institutional barriers to getting it. you're placing the discussion in a dillema where we have to choose between the wellbeing of trans people and "detransitioners" while ignoring that the situation of detransitioners, difficult as it may be, is statistically an extremely rare phenomenon even among the rare minority of trans people
You're basically saying medical practitioners should be more competent, and for some reason you think you're saying something novel. NO FUCKING SHIT.
Ask anyone you know about bad diagnosis or basically gross malpractice they or their family members have faced, and prepare to sit through a bunch of horrifying stories of incompetent medical professionals.
Why focus on de-transitioning issues? Because you're an autist that wants to "fix" micro-problems, missing the forest for that shiny rock you found by the river.


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you're still retarded, and completely missing the point of what i said. gatekeeping for several years already fucking exists, and it's a massive problems because it keeps people from getting treatment and consumes resources that could be used to help trans people on endless hoops you need to jump through just to get a shitty hondose
kill yourself twitterfag, you don't know anything about this subject and shouldn't share your opinions in general. i hope someone cuts your internet cable with a rusty hatchet
hormones should be otc like in china and i'm tired of pretending they shouldn't



wtf?! anyone know how to farm social credit 2023 no virus punjabi?


Anon is talking about rejecting sexuality as an identity. As in you can have any preference but just not boil it down to a single word that can lead to people being drawn into idpol about their sexuality. There isnt really a universal agreeance on how to define sexuality in humans as is anyway so it's just arbitrary boxes of undefined sizes.

I was just phrasing it in a way to make the point clear and not meaning to sound exagerative but there is a real social influence going on these days. It has happened enough cases have been documented. I havent had time to find and read it but there is a book i heard about written about it that you and I easily would have overlooked because the Reactionary title the publisher gave it without approval from the author who hates the title. Ive seen interviews with her and she doesnt seem to be transphobic and is not even a conservative to my recall. It's unfortunately called something along lines of Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters. Though keep in mind ive seen criticism it might be overestimating the rate such things occur. A public example, though hormones and surgery not involved as far as im aware so it's harmless atm and im not against it as is but what about someone like Shiloh Pitt-Jolie the love child of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie? Shiloh at some point wanted to be called John (i dont know how often this was actually done) and dressed in suits and other male clothing but showed up in a red carpet event couple years back in a close fitted dress tits and all. Now im against gender conformity but if we just for sake of example were to suggest Shiloh/John has gender dysphoria (i cant be bothered to look deep into this to suggest if this is case or not) dont you think it would be odd to on their own free will choose to wear a dress and be all dolled up despite supportive parents when for years already was well established as masculine presenting? If such a person like this had gender dysphoria wouldnt that be unbearable to wear something like that? Wouldn't you question it if someone like this told you they have gender dysphoria? Not suggesting that is the case here with Shiloh (who even in trans friendly media still is called this so idk if the John thing ever stuck around) just using an example so you understand what im talking about

I dont know how common it is but i know some girls that are repeat rape victims want to transition thinking it will stop them from being raped and i know this because personal experience with one close to me and she definitely wasnt a trans man from having signs suggesting otherwise i wont get into but one was complaining about her breasts being "too small". What trans man complains about having too small of breasts? I have known other situations on personal level that makes me worried about the current level of psychology and medical approaches. This is why this sort of thing upsets me because i personally have contact with the kind of people that would be harmed with the sort of policy of no diagnoses and vetting you seem to want.

I dont think having a waiting period is necessary best approach since different people can figure things out at different rates but i cant automatically say it's an inherently bad approach as things currently stand being we need better methods for diagnosis and a way to determine how good someone is at their self awareness among other things. So actually i want to ideally do away with arbitrary standard waiting times.

Yes i was just suggesting something like a brain scan to diagnose conditions assuming if that were possible. I think gender dysphoria exists both as a standalone condition and also a symptom of other conditions and the differences need to be addressed.


Damnit trans got turned into trains…stupid auto correct.


If these people truthfully didn't experience gender dysphoria and started to take hormones… they would be begin to experience gender dysphoria. As in they would realize that they aren't trans and quit taking them lol. What I felt before taking hormones is what someone who doesn't have dysphoria would begin to experience from taking them. And they would realize long before any permanent changes have taken place.

If you've never experience dysphoria then you don't understand how crippling it is. There is no way someone who wasn't trans would be able to handle taking hormones long enough for changes to take place, they would be compelled to stop, just as I'm compelled to continue.


>Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters
please PLEASE take your fucking meds and stop reading shit terf books


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didn't read lol


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so i guess we're all agreeing that pinkwashing is a real phenomenon?


Maybe they would maybe they wouldnt. It's not as simple as just observing physical effects. Hormones also can effect mental health conditions for better or worse so that's another factor. T and E act as SERT modulators (in same way) and the brain has estrogen receptors in it that effect people with conditions like schizophrenia according to some current research. Then you also have people with conditions they arent really fully capable of self monitoring. Again as I said to another Anon that gender dysphoria isnt just one condition but also can present as a symptom of other conditions and these should be managed to properly distinguish between these.

How could I or anyone say I do or dont experience gender dysphoria when Ive not ever been presented with an actual detailed description of what actually feels like other than subjective terms like "bad"? The clinical criteria for diagnosis is vague sounding. I can say I may have some type of dysphoria and also have experienced what seems to be depersonalization before.

Under what evidence is she a TERF? First off dont TERFs usually obsess over trans women and not really talk much about trans men that im aware of dont they? Also i havent seen her act like she has any hatred or disgust toward trans people at all aand people that do often do very poor job at covering it. Ive already explained the author didnt give it that shit title the publisher did to market it to reactionaries.

Then you missed a lot of nuance and details. I'm wanting barriers removed as much as i want them refined.


political compass memes are some of the worst kinds of cancer on the internet, as is the test that spawned them


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As is the long-obsolete paradigm of 'left' and 'right'. It's trash idpol memes based on a trash coping mechanism of a trash false model.

Just emphasizing the obvious for any newfags.


there's nothing really wrong with the left/right paradigm as a shorthand


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Im fucking sick of religious nutjobs. Our fucking government completely leaves us to the wolves when it comes to rural areas. Its sickening.


hey cmon, the government leaves everyone to the wolves if they're poor.


I didnt even notice it was a political compas meme.
Technically you can gauge left and right but I think you need more than just a two axis' system but I also dont think it should be called left and right and even then yes there are some positions on some topics that cant go one way or the other because of being so different from the alternatives. It just divides people and makes them hesitant to take things for what they are and instead fall into tribalism.


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> Ive not ever been presented with an actual detailed description of what actually feels like other than subjective terms like "bad"?
I wonder if kids were raised without gender, if they'd experience some sort gender dysphoria? Sometimes I think it's an advanced form of "grass is greener" syndrome; like if you're depressed and feel lost and see people on this artificial divide of behavior and body parts being "happier" than you, you'd naturally make the association with not being "right" in some way.

How many transgender women would still be into make-up or skirts if it was a guy thing instead? Just a thought; I'm not sure how "innate" gender is because it's actually genetic vs how it just feels "innate" to people who have trouble looking past ingrained childhood behavior teachings. I've noticed people on the autism spectrum are much more likely to identify as non-binary or gender neutral compared to the general population, and a defining feature of autism is failure to integrate into cultural social behavior.


I thought of a better way of phrasing this: the innateness of gender isn't the social behaviors themselves, but simply the urge to display those social behaviors and be validated by others in doing so. Like a man feeling "masculine" and a woman feeling "feminine" aren't experiencing different emotions but are actually feeling the same thing: gender euphoria. A better question to my first post: if no one was around to see you, would you still be a gender?


In victorian england children used to wear skirts no matter their sex because child mortality meant that pants didnt want to get emotionally invested in them until they reached a certain age. Boys didnt wear parents until age 10 iirc. Also skirts are easier to clean when a child pees themselves. Basically gender was enforced later on in age, and even then the aristocrats would just wear frilly shit anyway and be fruitcakes despite religious repression.


>How many transgender women would still be into make-up or skirts if it was a guy thing instead? Just a thought
There is a difference between social and physical dysphoria. You're right the transgender women wouldn't be into that stuff if raised in a social environment that you described. But they would still have the physical dysphoria that would be alleviated from hrt. And let's be honest, you ain't abolishing gender anytime soon, if ever, it's a fairly moot point to make that will never have a bearing on reality.


Trans people are into the things associated with the other gender because those things are associated with that gender not because of anything inherent about them. A trans woman wants feel like a woman and be seen as a woman. One of the ways to do that is to do things women do. Makeup is a thing women do. This isn't a hard concept.


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what the FUCK is their problem ?


>dragging asexuals into this shit as well
I'm surprised they don't have one for "intersex" that says "mutant freaks who should have their bodies forcibly corrected at birth."
>billionaires shouldn't exist


Reminder that many women are misogynist, many black people are racist against black people, many gays are homophobic, etc etc.

It's no surprise that there's a tiny think tank of schizos that are anti-trans. I've also met many lesbians who are anti-trans, and I attribute it to living in a conservative shit hole.

Christian Walker is an underappreciated lolcow, reactionary gay mess.


I'm pretty it's just a psyop. You'd have to have less braincells than a doorknob to fall this.


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the UK is gonna evolve very quickly into fascism and the TERFs are but a vanguard amongst vanguards of the british porkies. i think in some sense it's that these rich people and petite rich see transgender rights as something coming upwards from the lower class that gives proles funny ideas about how much effect they can have when they band together to achieve things, especially in the face of the communist parties complete ineffectiveness.

a successful transgender movement can be easily emulated by other groups and has an innate danger to porky in its ability to generalize from its "wide umbrella" particulars - the gay movement and the black movement have to a very large extent in the US coalesced

e.g. transhumanists make the british porky seethe because they don't want leftist movements generalizing to the point you get the gays, immigrants, and workers running around the same protests/riots


this can be true but it's not for white people to solve non-white problems out. if there's racism and hatred within a non-white community it should be treated by the respected community. you can surly talk about it, but to intervene is unnecessary.


Completely disagree, unless you're a liberal. Liberals should shut the fuck up. Marxists, the proper ones, should intervene. I've been told by straight liberals what I can or can't say, or how I should behave. Fuck libs every day of the week.


we aren't liberals


Ya know, I'm starting wonder about the instinctive contempt for liberalism that's found in both the left and right camps.

Yet, both sides rely on liberalism to portray their ideas while shitting on the very platform that gives them life.


You mean the contempt for left wing liberals? Because right wing liberals can also fuck off, there is plenty of criticism against these. The contempt lies from their ultimately conservative stances on a bunch of issues, of either side of the liberal spectrum.

Its not "instinctive". Marxists have a political project that liberals oppose, both progressive and conservative liberals, what you call """both sides""".


Also, your biggest failure is to just now "begin to wonder". Are you not thinking things through?


> it's not for white people to solve non-white problems out. if there's racism and hatred within a non-white community it should be treated by the respected community. you can surly talk about it, but to intervene is unnecessary.
Why don't you give me a reason why?


>Yet, both sides rely on liberalism to portray their ideas while shitting on the very platform that gives them life.
this is a meaningless sentence/word salad


File: 1673946764672.png (1.36 MB, 1170x948, ClipboardImage.png)

Liberalism invented "being able to say things", you see. Before liberalism, people were beheaded for saying any words, not even hand signs were allowed.


I love how imageboard users always feel assured in their opinions as scientific fact.

The right calls anything they don't like as "leftist".
The moderate refers to anything they don't like as "fascist."


Literally the meme of:
>communists: we want to end the capitalist system of exploitation and free all oppressed peoples.
<right wing liberals: we want to kill gays and niqqers lmao
neoliberal-faux-progressive liberals: omg they're basically the same thing!


>and there are still communists that tell me terfs and "progressive anti-trans" peoples aren't subhuman of the hitlerian variety


UK government blocks Scotland's new gender recognition law

The UK government has blocked a new law intended to allow trans people in Scotland to change their legal gender without a medical diagnosis – a controversial move that has added fuel to the already highly emotional debate over Scottish independence.

Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister, called the intervention “a full-frontal attack on our democratically elected Scottish Parliament and its ability to make its own decisions on devolved matters,” in a post on Twitter on Monday.

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack – the minister representing Scotland in the UK government – announced Monday that Westminster had taken the highly unusual step of blocking the Scottish bill from becoming law because it was concerned about its impact on UK-wide equality laws – a justification that trans rights groups dismissed.


sorry for the janky video. couldn't figure out how to download it properly.


make it look funny as fuck tho


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Perfect interview: scottish dude in a blue suite with uneven glasses and PM in 3 layers of clashing clothing, both of them look like they're in front of a green screen in a random location.


>Under what evidence is she a TERF?
She's not, she's just a retarded conservative. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Abigail_Shrier


Imagine if Scotland independence movement gets enough traction due to the anti-trans British shenanigans.
That would be, dare I say, epic.


Okay, but I never said her book was good. I clearly gave full disclosure I haven't read it. I was just using it as an example of reports on the sort of thing I was talking about and I also suggested it could be overblown. So can't really say I'm biased and being unfair.


>Under what evidence is she a TERF? First off dont TERFs usually obsess over trans women and not really talk much about trans men that im aware of dont they? Also i havent seen her act like she has any hatred or disgust toward trans people at all aand people that do often do very poor job at covering it. Ive already explained the author didnt give it that shit title the publisher did to market it to reactionaries.

TERFs constantly obsess over transgender men. they view them as their "lost lesbian tomboy sisters" or some other schizo shit. Also, the line between conservative and TERF is quite a thing, fuzzy line


I would argue that the TERF movement has become so pigeon-holed that it can not even be regarded as 'feminist' any longer and is simply a right wing cult


What can be called the physical dysphoria and social dysphoria are different but I suspect social dysphoria exacerbates any physical dysphoria. This is something that should be observable by looking at different cultures where there isnt as strong a barrier between roles for men and for women as being unique and rates of HRT and SRS could be observable and other factors have to be adjusted for but problem is I wouldnt know where to look due to how widespread Anglo influence is where it's hard to even find a country that doesnt have a good number of English as a second language speakers which is an issue because English has gendered pronouns and some gendered job titles though it lost some in time like a female baker used to be called a baxter way back.


I think he wanted to say something along the lines of "if it comes to it, yes" but his Oxbridge and PR rhetorical waffling training overrode everything else
Also the Conservatives are a pretty Unionist party, so he could be deposed if he said yes


feminism was always like that with regards to men though lol, TERFs are just more honest and picking on an 'easier' target


>but I suspect social dysphoria exacerbates any physical dysphoria
Have you ever experienced dysphoria anon? You really don't need to answer, I already know it's a no.


"Feminist" in general and "TERF" are largely empty signifiers, artifacts of discourse. TERFs may or may not align at all with other feminists, and "feminist" covers such a wide range of ideologies that it's hard to define either of them let alone to clearly delineate TERFs as not feminists. The discourse on sexism has mostly been captured by the spectacle at this point and fracturing into a million disagreeing sects.


File: 1674006849656.png (1.06 MB, 2324x1800, ClipboardImage.png)

The main difference is in whether they are treated like respectable people by liberal media and even some socialist groups. That's the main distinguishing factor I can figure. Pic related are different in that regard than run of the mill conservashills.


>TERFs aren't real feminists
>they don't want men in womans bathrooms

sounds pretty feminist to me


I unironically think in the UK situation, the transgender rights movement has reached an amount of importance unprecedented for what you'd think it to be (we simply want to be allowed to transition and not be discriminated against)

such importance has been placed on it by UK porky's fear of it generalizing. White people, black people, indian people, everyone can be transgender, it has particulars that it does not share with the black movement but there's is a cohesiveness that someone in favor of transgender people tends to be in favor of immigrants etc etc

Porky is afraid of the transgender movement being emulated by other groups due to the fact that transgender people exist in all groups and classes, particularly the lower class since transsexuals tend to be discriminated against in employment and tossed out their families houses etc

I unironically think that porky thinks, regardless of if it's true or not, that transgender people are a danger to them of becoming some sort of eunuch vanguard of the proles since it's very leftist and the logical endpoint of leftism is fuck rich people


real feminists want to desegregate bathrooms, not least of which because more foot traffic deters crimes


ah so this is the vibe that I was picking up on just recently. No wonder all the porkies in the UK are pearl clutching now.


If you knew anything about this you'd know that bathroom policing based on perceived femininity hurts cis women even more than trans women, since there are 100x as many cis women. It especially hurts butch women who get harassed and called trans. More cis women mistakenly identified as trans get harassed by other cis woman, than trans women harassing cis women. So there's nothing feminist about keeping trans women out if women's bathrooms. And trans women are not men.


why don't transhumanists just go to thailand. thai transhumanists look better and i know they aren't paying 150k for their work


i'm guessing those people are highly augmented by makeup and gotten rid of once they pass like 27


150k per person lmao. Most trams people are poor and disproportionately homeless. No, they aren't paying that. Even for SRS FFS BA and a lifetime of HRT


>Implying that having testicles and hoarding your money will pose a threat to porky


I think what the Anon meant to say is that transgenderism is too niche of an identity and too dependant on the stability of society to risk everything on a revolution


Yes I have.

Asians have less difference in bone structure between male and female supposedly. Also countries like South Korea and Japan have good skin care products.


Height dysphoria is one of the most common form of non-gender related dysphoria, and one strongly correlated with social pressures


Average height chads stay winning


>transgender people are a danger to them of becoming some sort of eunuch vanguard of the proles since it's very leftist
this would not be the case if capitalist society would just embrace trans people and defend them. It happened with gay people. this thinking is idiotic.


Shouldnt it be obvious that's because they have backing of people that arent so anticapitalist as well so it gives them larger numbers for anything to do with identity?


All those are trash tier tabloids and other sources with no journalistic integrity and only one that isnt isnt even talking about a trans student but just a male student that reportedly was wearing women's clothes at the time. Ive known guys that go into the girls restrooms because it's just closer or less crowded and they didnt need to cross dress to get in and never got spotted.


Don't bother responding, its one guy talking to himself


I figured it was but im bored so didnt think it would hurt.


TERF island is going to the shitter but its a higher priority to fuck trans people over than anything else.


it's a sign of how much of a threat they view us

have optimism comrade, we're a pressure point, we can win


it's an error of the british bourgie, they give us power, better to take advantage of such a strange intricacy of the situation


>if capitalist society would just embrace trans people and defend them.
not gonna happen
>It happened with gay people.
not really. all "embracing" that capitalists did of gay people was purely cynical. besides. any change in bourgeois attitudes does not extend to the proletariat. Just because Ellen Degeneres can be buddy-buddy with George Bush does not make life any better for the gays on the streets who get the shit kicked out of them by reactionaries and cops.


>some sort of eunuch vanguard of the proles
based that's me


>I unironically think in the UK situation, the transgender rights movement has reached an amount of importance unprecedented for what you'd think it to be (we simply want to be allowed to transition and not be discriminated against)
Seriously someone explain what the fuck is wrong with these british politicans? How pathological is their obsession that they are willing to override Scottish democracy just so that Scottish trans people can't have their preferred gender in their drivers licenses. It's fucking insane. What the FUCK did trans people ever do to these people?

And the fact that Labor decided not to go to parliment to vote against this shit? Spineless traitors to the working class. What a joke of a country.


porky doesn't wanna do that because giving healthcare to transhumanists, especially without gatekeeping and affordable, is expensive


well overriding scottish democracy is the point, they're prepping for a catalonia style crackdown on the SNP


So they want to bait them into declaring independence and then crack down on them?



"protecting the safety of women and children"

"protecting the german people from jewish influence"


No, the SNP are determined to have another independence referendum either way, it's their raison detre as a party, but Westminster wants to set the precedent that Scottish democracy is illegitimate and they only get to pretend to have devolved powers due to generosity of London. The government wants to block any independence referendum from happening through the courts but if they can't stop it they are setting the groundwork that even if it did happen they would have no obligation to adhere to it.


Ah, I see.
What is "Westminster"? Is it another name for the main parliament of UK or something?


It's the area where parliament is yes, it's like when people call the US govt 'Washington'.


yeah to me this seems like oppressing a "cringe" group of people (aka marginalized and nobody wants to defend them) as pretext to stomp on scottish democratic practices in favor of direct english rule. it's one of those things where nationalists arent likely to defend their own nationalism because it coincides with lgbt rights, but as a result the occupying government gains more power over their nation.
it's kind of exciting to me, though, to see trans rights coinciding with a national liberation movement.


god i fucking despise the english, how did such a cringe group of people (aka anglos) come to exist?


CPGB-ML is a nazbol five-eyes astroturf

Scotland shall be free


File: 1674174451521.png (41.75 KB, 680x346, karl marx trans.png)


what is "five-eyes"?


File: 1674217538198.png (602.37 KB, 800x445, ClipboardImage.png)

The Five Eyes (FVEY) is an intelligence alliance comprising Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States


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karl has healed


I like men :3
I wan a man :33


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we made it bros


boymodergods.. i kneel…


Does that mean you aren't one?


damn I was expecting him to justify the tactical N word as a dunk on the racist


i am a boymoder but i never feel confident boymoding since i have tits that poke thru my shirts and jackets


Saw that some trans people did a study on detransitioners. I am reluctant to post it here since fucking anything is fuel for the creeps obsessed with deligitmizing trans people.


lol faggot whenever i go out in boymode i feel like a real man and being a girl does not cross my mind



File: 1674238645767.png (17.76 KB, 517x701, niqabmoder.png)

>"lol faggot whenever i go out in boymode i feel like a real man and being a girl does not cross my mind"


i wear a hoodie, simple as. just stop being shit at boymoding and wear men's clothes


who cares, post it anyway


When i wear men's clothes I still get gendered female


try to appear more masculine ig? if you can figure out what is signaling "female" to people try to adjust that or to compensate for it.

worst case wear a fake mustache lol


File: 1674254307347.png (30.59 KB, 806x197, ClipboardImage.png)


Mtf to Mtftm non-detransitioner moment


Im an mtftmtf retransitioner and i take offence to that


Sorry anon


I was just kidding. I really am an mtftmtf retransitioner though which is completely bizarre if you think about it



you're just a femoid then


M to mtf to mtftm to mtftmtf multi-transitioner: the final boss for terfs


Thank you so much, as an mtf that means a lot to hear


Marriage is an inherently reactionary sexist and homophobic abrahamic construction

It should be abolished


Marriage has been invented by cultures all over the world in many forms and is a nice thing people can do if they want. LGBTQIA+ is valid but so is mutual cishettrad


Marriage in general should be abolished, be it LGBTQIA+ or cishet


File: 1674262234738.png (1.63 MB, 1299x1206, ClipboardImage.png)



the heterofag fears the homochad


State beaurocratic legal marriage sure, agreed. But you can't abolish private ceremonies and commitments, or marriage itself whose legal character is only incidental




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File: 1674284249032-1.jpg (101.02 KB, 1280x720, identitypolitics.jpg)

Despite being bisexual, I'm not very attuned with lgbt communities, so I was wondering if this observation is true: it seems like when it comes to trans people and gender roles, men being women is like 90% of what is fought over.

When I first learned about the bathroom situation in 2016, it was always: "Do you think it's fine for a MAN to being in the WOMENS bathroom??!?!?!?" – but never talking about the idea of a female using the males bathroom. And today when ever you hear about outrage of a trans person like them being in a sport, it's never a ftm, or if they're angry it's because they have to be consistent since of their famous hatred towards mtfs, (even though if ftms are so "bad" then you wouldn't need the knowledge of the "terribleness" of mtf).

Similarly on just gender: they talk about how disgusting it is for a man to be dress up and use make up and whatever, but tomboys are ignored.
(Side note: it's weird that people get angry over the term "femboy" but tomboy isn't contended when it is easily just as "problematic". I get annoyance with the term "trap" since it's not really applicable if you're into that, but I don't get what makes "femboy" bad unless you're terminally online).

I found this pattern annoyingly in terf communities like crystal.cafe and lolcow.farms. I just skimmed one of the threads on the sites, and found the second image as an example. It's so weird since even from a neutral perspective it makes no sense, even if you weren't black let's say, you would still support their liberation since you wouldn't want their oppression to be done towards you.
But instead of working together to fight against oppressive society, they just attack mtf trans people. I as a commie understand why the behavior – (middle class people who live in their bubbles) – but someone who's politically uneducated I struggle to see how they would agree with this – (unless they were raised on awful values of course).


It's pretty simple. They don't believe being transgender is real. And they sometimes do acknowledge FtMs but it's usually "oh no no no we lost one of ours!" or something to that effect. IMO the ignorance really is just an extension of believing in rigid gender roles in general, which is why TERF types are usually also socially conservative in general around the subject of gender and have opinions like "drag queens are doing blackface against women." It's like people who got half-woke, with some progressive ideas like women's rights but then using progressive-sounding logic to support the reactionary/conservative ideas they want to hold onto. You might also notice that which reactionary ideas they want to keep depends on which reactionary ideas benefit them personally (or at least what they think will).


It's just misogyny, same way 90% of homophobia is expressed against male homosexuality rather than lesbians. Women are inferior and therefore less threatening whether in homosexuality or being trans. Whereas the transwoman and gay man by 'rejecting' the superior masculinity are doing something intrinsically perverse and undermining to the patriarchal order.

To the regular transphobe or homophobe gay men and transwomen are perverse and weak and they are disgusted by their 'choice' to reject their beneficial position in the patriarchy, becoming women/eunuchs in their eyes, something below them to be held in contempt, getting extra violent if attraction to either is thrown into the mix because then the possibility of 'this transwoman/bottom could be me, i could be the one getting fucked' and being inferior to another man is raised in their minds against which they react aggressively .

To their mirror image, the TERF who also thinks of men as superior and women as inferior, but sees herself as locked in a gender war to overthrow that, transwomen are equally perverse because they 'choose' to become weak, which no one would do unless they were a fetishistic pervert getting off on it obviously, and as male infiltrators and therefore dangerous enemies in the gender war who blur the lines of their conflict. While transmen to them are at most benign naive lost sisters who were tricked into thinking women can't be strong while being women and need to be won over back to the female side of the war, or as collaborationist traitors taking the easy way out and sooner trying to join the male side to become superior to women than fighting for women's general liberation.


It's this. Haven't read it though.
I honestly don't really give much of a shit about the politics of transitioning/detransitioning besides the idea that it should be readily available and easily accessible, with specialized doctors. A fucking pipe dream in the god forsaken dystopia we live in. I also remind people that gay people are sometimes the worst homophobes just as trans people can hold transphobic ideas, and these trans researchers are very likely liberals who are imbued with liberal ideology, so their findings should be taken in this light.
On point.


multi-trans drifting with chemical supremacy characteristics


File: 1674443826271.jpg (248.53 KB, 1080x1230, 1674435381269393.jpg)

He's right, you know?


yeah thats how i became trans
both my parents noticed i hated sports so they immediately started dressing me up in girls' clothes, helping me put on makeup and even taking me to the doctor for hormones. it was awesome


Holy based. We should feminize all suburbanite gamer nerds


I still think it may have been result of class views and how what fashion that is considered masculine happens to be the practical one while feminine fashion impractical and just for looks. Aristocratic Frenchmen didnt have to do any physical labour so they dressed more feminine while working class women leaned toward more masculine attire than upper class women. Women only took on what's viewed as an inferior role in the West due to an incel in the middle ages named Kramer who tried to pin things like the black plague on them which people went with because witchcraft was the traditional folk medicine and the inability to treat the plague made them fall to blame despite both men and women were practitioners. During hard times everyone is looking for a scapegoat to take out their frustrations and this applies today.





watch your ass because i'm gonna inject estrogen into your cheeks when you're not looking


TERF island having a meltdown over some retarded bathroom shit.
Mixed toilets are so common in Europe, I have to think they're common in the UK too… Hell, even in my conservative home town where gendered toilets used to be the norm are now mixing them, not even for "woke" reasons, just practicality and cost.


they are not common i'm afraid


File: 1674489015312.jpg (62.3 KB, 1224x1303, 1662866034115.jpg)

Everything is a disorder to them. Who goes after asexuals in any case. They are literally as inoffensive as possible. Can't say I ever met one but then I wouldn't know unless they were weirdly vocal about it. Really the only asexual representation to me is the joke "Yeah, I'm asexual…predator"


meant to quote sth else but it's just as well


"LGBT are unnatural" in fact their highly advantageous adaptations in their evolutionary environment make it the height of God's dialectics of nature. Ignore the satanic religious death cultists who deny evolution and screech about "materialism is evil" because they know reality is not on their side.


What makes it more stupid if they ever been to say for example a restaurant where one of the restrooms is closed for cleaning they just say on the door go to the other one.


File: 1674634664948.png (641.36 KB, 1005x495, ClipboardImage.png)



>Who goes after asexuals in any case. They are literally as inoffensive as possible.
Hmm indeed. What kind of person wants to make people have sex against their will? I think there's a word for this…


It's more that they criminalize asexual males as funs.
They wanna guilt trip young men into making families to "preserve the ethnostate."


I realise this is old now, and this is only tangentially related, but masculinity is both easy and hard to define. Because it's a social construct, it is what people say it is - namely, strength (both physical and mental), hardness of body and mind, emotional control (which often manifests as emotional illiteracy, which is objectively bad - I believe this is what people mean when they talk about toxic masculinity), bravery, intelligence, technical ability at hard skills such as welding, plastering, soldering, etc., speed both of body and mind; all that sort of stuff.

In the video, the guy mentioned that women aren't concerned about having their femininity taken away; this is because femininity *is* the negation of masculinity. Physical and mental weakness, stupidity, lack of technical ability (think how women have only just been allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia and how they're always lambasted as poorer drivers in the west), cowardice, frivolity, lack of emotional control, etc. There is nothing to be taken away from women, because their femininity exists only as a lack of masulinity. This implies about the opression of women that they are defined by patriarchy as being incapable of achieving masculine traits, and if they ever did (and they do, regularly), they would no longer be classified as women.


The thread about anti-trans legislation on the main board really is something


do u think my performance was acceptable in that thread?


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Here's a fun fact that i cant believe nobody else has memorized. Pisses me off that im the only one who memorized it


I think you were appropriately glib to all the clearly bad faith posters


Honestly I don't get why transphobes aren't just banned, is the rest of their post history somehow high quality? Very doubtful


Main board gets transphobia general, but lgbt general gets sequestered to Siberia. I'm starting to think this site fucking sucks


> I'm starting to think this site fucking sucks
some people seem to think class consciousness means allowing discrimination or declaring any class-adjacent discussion to be "idpol." very sad stuff.



Please use the report function if you see a post you think is idpol.

Also, this board was started on /siberia/ in the first place. Maybe we should discuss whether there should be a LGBT general on leftypol though.


if there's a sekrit janny fbi.gov, it'd be nice if you asked if you could make it there or something. half of /usapol/ is lgbt general material


I literally created v0 of this thread in leftypol and the very first post, literally the first one, was a janny moving it to Siberia for quote "obvious" reasons that they didn't bother typing.


Fair enough, but do you have a suggestion for how to not have this thread on leftypol have a load of whiners and ban evaders trolling it like that trans legislation thread?


janny was right and the current transhumanist thread needs to be moved as well


Make transphobia against the rules and issue bans. That's hard since theres so much of it. But that seems like no excuse.


Is which board the post is in really going to effect the frequency of such things that much? Give longer range-bans to the problem users instead of folding belly up.



Look, they already ban people for derailing with this stuff. That's enough.
Homophobes have sometimes come in and tried to shit up the gay porn threads on here too. I'm fine with mods just banning them as they come for really aggressively trolling. I don't think we should totally doctrinally ban this stuff otherwise, there are contexts where having one or two people with stupid opinions is fine, but it seems like we very nearly have banned it altogether anyway so I don't think there's really room to crack down harder. Sometimes people are dicks, it happens, but if they just have wrong opinions on the one issue and can talk about it where it's appropriate without being cunts, I don't see so much of an issue there.

I'm absentee to this thread, tho, so who knows.


>but if they just have wrong opinions on the one issue and can talk about it where it's appropriate without being cunts,

And in case I come across ambiguously, there wouldn't be very many opportunities for this anyway. We're mostly focused on class politics… or at least we were, I spend more time in /siberia/ than the main board these days.


This is the reasoning that leads to every nazi bar becoming a nazi bar.



I've worked in multiple bars and I've never seen any of them become Nazi bars. I'm not sure if that's a thing that exists.


Its already against the rules and people are banned for it all the time. Try it and find out.


Damn, they even raid like fucking Karens.


Honestly there isn't much you can do. There are certain resident posters who are doing pic related, which is to say arguing in bad faith and refusing to listen to anything people say. You can't meaningfully address anything said by people like that and banning them or deleting their posts will just get them to act up about how they're being oppressed.

The only rebuttal to them is to call them dishonest bigots tbh. Bonus points if you can get them to expose themselves as such.


Far be it from me to suggest that trans people should have theoretical backing to form ready made infographs and easy gotcha arguments to make people fuck off when all theyre saying is the exact same shit as before for the thousandth time, i know nobody wants to read a goddamn bit of theory and have a fucking clue what to say in response to the myths that rightoids have built for themselves. What a joke


Forget it Jake, it's leftypol.



This. It's like 3 people who won't shut the fuck up, and there seems to always be at least an equal number of people arguing with them about it and they always get banned. Also I got banned for like an hour just for telling flirty jokes in that other punchy thread, I don't think we have a problem with mods not being on edge enough about this.

In fact, you know what? I think we're more than good enough. I see more transphobes on twitter, reddit, etc. This is kinda seeming more like concern trolling to me - I'm gay and I've been on leftypol since 2017, and I didn't need people to coddle me when straightfags said dumb mean shit. Transphobic, homophobic derailing gets banned whenever it shows up, asking for any more than that is ridiculous.


I scrolled through it and a lot of what I'm seeing isn't even saying shit. Maybe there's some context I'm missing, but I don't know - some of this feels like someone is really, really making an effort to stretch a lot of the meanings here to be more offensive than they actually are at face. Still, though, I might be missing context.

I might be missing something, but it's also true that for a lot of people this isn't the primary political issue. And if it was, if they were actually transphobic, they'd presumably be more antagonistic than just limply apathetic.
And to be totally honest? Leftists are not now and never have been the driver for anti-trans BS. A couple people not being enthusiastic enough in a thread on leftypol.org isn't the deciding force in trans politics in the US. Not even in the UK - most of the UK's anti-trans momentum is conservative in character, the conservatives just hide behind TERFs because they don't want to be (correctly) identified as a mostly right-wing social reactionary movement in a country where that's unfashionable.

If they're earnest leftists who just aren't interested in this specific thing, they're a minority and aren't likely to bother supporting conservatives just over this one specific issue… and even if they did, their numbers would not be significant compared to just regular reactionaries' numbers. If they're not earnest leftists, and they're actual transphobes who really hate ya then they'll reveal themselves. And maybe they have, I haven't skimmed through the entire thread, but some of the few redtextings I did see looked maybe a little bit presumptive.


Good lord, by the time it expired the posts I was replying to had vanished…


It was some retard raid from crystal cafe people. Normally leftypol is pretty alright about being chill, but raids are raids.


>I make accusation without evidence
>I don't need evidence
>I'm de facto right.


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Literally 114569 posts-tier.


lol, mods said so, so that is good enough for me.


^das me

Since the 2nd post I was replying to vanished, I'll clarify that the thread they were talking about wasn't the punchy thread but a thread on the main board about anti-trans legislation. The punch thread had like 3 very obviously obsessed transphobic anons, the legislation thread is the one where I see a lot of posts which seem more ambiguous.


I think the anon you're replying to is talking about the punchy thread, and they're correct.


How would the mods know that?


Knowing post IPs, duh.


>the mods know who which IPs are CC
>the mods tell the truth
Oh my sweet summer child.


Socialist line on LGBT rights
>LGBT people are to have the same legal rights as everyone else
>They should not have their right to engage in LGBT social behavior prevented or punished
>They should not be discriminated against in by any institutions from state to small businesses when it comes to employment, payment, purchasing goods and services, or otherwise
>LGBT people are not to be prevented from access to any social services or legal rights like marriage or other services or benefits gated behind a requirement of marriage
>Transgender people should not be put into inappropriately gendered prisons or put at risk of sexual assault, rape, etc.
>Transgender people should receive full healthcare support for gender affirming care like HRT
>All of these principles should be followed to the greatest material capability of the nation with no excuses made
>Anyone advocating against these principles should be ruthlessly criticized, even if they are advocating against them based on the purported fact that they are subsumed by economic rights

Anons anonettes and anonems, please criticize this post, edit it and repost, or write your own. I'd love it to be watertight




i like it


This is more like a program. I would prefer to have a good grounding from which we can decide the program. This means that people can adapt the grounding theory and apply it to their circumstances, and create their own program.

Queerphobia reproduces itself and manifests itself in a variety of ways. One of the ways queerphobia manifests itself is the exclusion of queer people to heteronormative institutions, such as marriage, sports, adoption, cis-straight-male-dominated workplaces, religious institutions, etc. Another being discrimination of housing, employment, and access to goods and services. Another is in the private sphere, family, friends, and community, which might include discrimination or social pressure.

I won't go into the ways queerphobia is reproduced because that's a more complicated question. Some of the ways queerphobia can be mitigated (temporarily suppressed, but not solved) is with protection by law of discrimination and exclusion from institutions. Unfortunately, that doesn't cover all of the ways queerphobia manifests itself. You can't make a law that makes it illegal for cis-hetero people to be nasty gossiping cunts against queer people.

On the other side, the inclusion of queer people, particularly gay males (because misogyny), is frequently mediated by queer people being subdued by heteronormativity, sometimes even promoted by queer people themselves. For example, the constant demand to make pride parades "safe for children [and progressive christian moms]". Or hailing men getting married and adopting children as the final frontier of gay emancipation, meaning that gay men in general become emancipated from oppression once it is legal for gay men to live (or acquire) a heteronormative life.

Obviously protection against discrimination in institutions is important, especial considering how it affects a large number of the proletariat (1/10 to 1/20), and further because the overlap between misogyny and queerphobia is so large this means protections and integration into historically cis-straight-male spaces goes hand in hand. This is also true to a degree with racial discrimination, particularly in the US.

So if we were to talk about the socialist approach to queerphobia, I would say we need to understand that the issue isn't just the lack of legal protections and integration into cis-heteronormative (and sometimes white male) institutions, but also the exclusion of queer people in private life, and crucially the structural problems that allow for the reproduction of queerphobia.


ok thank u what book did u learn it from


Comrade you are speaking in tongues


just look up every word you dont know in the dictionary and read it over and over until you understand it


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tbh, discussing it with comrades here and developing the theory alongside the board. The reason I got interested in leftism in the first place was because SJW shit was retarded and didn't offer a solution to LGBT and racial issues, which is what brought me to leftypol back in ~2016.

That plus listening to what more lib comrades and anarchists had to say about this topic, and tying it back to marxism. Unfortunately, I updated my Mac OS and of course all of my notes in the Notes app got deleted because Apple "Just Works!®". I did find this really old list I made, which is really outdated only slightly updated in 2020. I would remove stuff and add different things here instead. I also lost all of the critiques of idpol, liberal intersectionality, essentialism I had written long ago, which were nice to read from time to time to see how my views had changes. RIP.

Identity Politics

Racial politics (mostly Black Panther stuff)

It's A Class Struggle Goddammit! - Fred Hampton (Fred Hampton was a member of the Black Panther Party who was assasinated by the FBI)

Power Anywhere Where There's People - Fred Hampton

The Panthers and the Patriots By Michael McCanne Edit
An article about the black Panthers work with the Young Patriots a group of SDS guys who reached out to white working class people in Appalachia and the Deep South
+ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/black-panthers-young-patriots-fred-hampton

Footage of the Patriots and Panthers working together to build class consciousness
+ https://youtu.be/RPTwDO0sh-E

Fred Hampton's famous: "We're not going to fight capitalism with black capitalism we're going to fight it with socialism" speech
+ https://youtu.be/fJSqZrVjDds

Paul Robeson (Check out his Wikipage)
+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-xfqP6FOE
+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFjjaFNHKo

Identity politics as such

Exiting the vampire castle - Mark Fisher
+ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/

Essentialism and the problem of identity politics - Lawrence Jarach
+ https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lawrence-jarach-essentialism-and-the-problem-of-identity-politics

Against Identity Politics by Lupus Dragonowl
+ https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/lupus-dragonowl-against-identity-politics

White purity by Asad Heider Edit

Adolph Reed: Identity Politics Is Neoliberalism Edit
+ https://bennorton.com/adolph-reed-identity-politics-is-neoliberalism/

Identity Crisis by Salar Mohandesi Edit
+ https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/03/16/identity-crisis/

Michael Parenti
+ https://youtu.be/n79kRP5RB2M
+ https://youtu.be/ZkttzU86CFE


Intersectionality, in summary, is a left liberal theory about the system of oppressions and how they can overlap. For example, it's different being gay and black, than those things separately. It is sometimes misconstrued as meaning solidarity.

I am a woman and a human: a Marxist feminist critique of intersectionality theory - Eve Mitchell
+ https://libcom.org/library/i-am-woman-human-marxist-feminist-critique-intersectionality-theory-eve-mitchell

The Communist Case Against Intersectionality by sev_k
+ Intersectional “leftism” is not authentic leftism. It is a bourgeois ideology that must be rejected.


Class is More Intersectional than Intersectionality
+ https://imperiumadinfinitum.wordpress.com/2016/11/11/class-is-more-intersectional-than-intersectionality/

Marxism vs. Intersectionality by Jessica Cassell
+ https://www.marxist.com/marxism-vs-intersectionality.htm

Intersectionality: A Marxist Critique by Barbara Foley
+ https://multiracialunity.org/2018/09/26/intersectionality-a-marxist-critique/

Privilege Politics

Privilege politics is reformism
+ http://libcom.org/library/privilege-politics-reformism

The poverty of privilege politics
+ http://libcom.org/library/poverty-privilege-politics

Behind the epidemic police killings in America: Class, poverty and race
+ https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/12/20/kil1-d20.html

The Unique and It's Property - Max Stirner
If you do read this (it's a fun read), read "Saint Max" found in The German Ideology too.


What do you find confusing? I phone posted that so it's not particularly well edited. I'd be happy to explain if you tell me what you understand/don't understand.


>we're more than good enough.
I assume you're replying to me (a handful of people are responsible for all the reactionary screeching). That is like the exact opposite of what I would suggest. The fact there are only three of them means it should be cracked down harder. Not to go all utopian but if there wasn't the constant droning noise of them, things would be vastly improved.



Yeah, but also prisons generally shouldn't be overcrowded and run like rape factories. Ideally no one should be getting raped in prison.
Yeah, but this goes without saying. Any comprehensive public healthcare system which covers mental health would cover HRT. If medical consensus supports transitioning as treatment for dysphoria (which at present it unambiguously does), then the only reason to specifically exclude this is to appease obsessive prudes. I feel like it's a bridge we have to cross when we get to it - the most effective rollout would be to reform healthcare first to pay for everything but tit enlargements (so to speak) and then let people with new free healthcare complain that the same system that gets them anti-depressants also gets MtFs spiro. The hard work will have been done.
Not really. I mean that's more of a personal thing. If they're willing to do anything constructive and it doesn't seem like they're going to change their opinions, then personally I'd probably work with what I can work with and not work with what I can't. Society is very big.



I don't think that deleted post I was replying to was you, no.




The only reason there even are men's and women's prisons is an attempt to reduce pregnancies and because if women were in a normal prison the whole prison system would be criticized more but instead we get women calling for women's prisons to be replaced by house arrest and for men to rot behind bars.


Retarded straightoid


America's prison system is absolutely horrid. People die there all the fucking time, plus rape and violence are a common occurrence. If people weren't treated like animals, maybe they wouldn't act like animals…


>Anyone advocating against these principles should be ruthlessly criticized, even if they are advocating against them based on the purported fact that they are subsumed by economic rights
Expand this principle to cover any sort of "but muh economy" whining when it comes to materially improving the lives of workers under socialism. Otherwise I can't really find fault.


>The only reason there even are men's and women's prisons is an attempt to reduce pregnancies
Don't leave out the part where getting pregnant in prison used to be a strategy to get out of harsher punishments like the death penalty or to get a reduced sentence to take care of the kid.


From what ive heard Norway has the best prisons. But yes the problem is how they are treated and influence of being surrounded by psychopaths on both sides of the bars instead of socialized for normal life. The whole point of prison should just be to keep other people outside safe and help people who commited a wrong to make it better and show they wont do that sort of thing again. Instead we get a Christianity influenced system based on penance expecting people to just fix themselves by having alone time.


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that's cute. what was j.k. rowling doing again when roe v wade was overturned? i forgot


>When I first learned about the bathroom situation in 2016, it was always: "Do you think it's fine for a MAN to being in the WOMENS bathroom??!?!?!?" – but never talking about the idea of a female using the males bathroom.

There was actually an incident where an FTM was forced by a business owner to use the female restroom out of spite, went in, was mistaken by the women inside for being MTF, and then was beaten up by some cis men over it.


probably whining about trans people on twitter


LMAO we've crossed the rubicon haven't we. Boojie brits posting animu and American hip hop speak.


"same shit different day" is not hip hop speak. It's a common turn of phrase in American english, regardless of subculture. My white grandma says "same shit different day." all the time.


>this anime girl telling me to shut the fuck up is literally 1904
beyond parody


How could this even be a thing? Since in reality no one really cares about opposite sex going into the other sexes restroom we all know it happens all the time with parents and their kids or people just going to the other because long lines or it's far away or out of order. Seems it's solely based on unrealistic paranoia about child molestation from strangers and obsessive oppression and denial of teenage sexuality out of cope. This comes from same people who would gladly defend circumcision of infants against their will and use of physical punishment in their parenting and often their parents were like that. In fact men who have been circumcised show similar psychology to someone sexually abused. So all this obsession over sexual abuse and genital mutilation is cope for their own experiences and trying to externalize it to dissociate from it by blaming some outsider instead of their own parents and their current mindset being the same as their parents.


>by advocating against the rights of transgender people, I received the same oppression as those who advocated for the rights of women
>take for example this meme someone sent to me


all bigots and reactionaries suffer extremely cognitive dissonance, like the ones who in one sentence act like they are defending wholesome family values, then on the other hand threatening to hurt vast swaths of people politically for no real reason but owning the libs


rich british femoids are so hilariously cut off from any real, material issues and it shows


Your point would be stronger without the circumcision nonsense. Not even in favor of child circumcision, but that's some "obsessed and lost the plot" tier shit.


>but that's some "obsessed and lost the plot" tier shit.
That's what being circumcised will do to you. Still think it's funny?


Hahaha good point.


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here's where kathleen stock was


British reptilian TERFs (aka scalies) hate furries because they're jealous of how mammals have vaginas. and not the "cloaca" which lizards have, a multi-purpose orifice in their body which poop and pee and reproductive fluids are released from.


It's not the sole cause just saying it also has some odd tie in so Im implying one approach to try to prevent such behaviour. Every circumcision is $300, it's a big business. I just didnt phrase myself the best and obviously this would only explain some portion of cis men not women that act violently against trans people which was implying more to it.


>Yet the vast majority of zoomers let alone everybody else agree with her.


Virtually all moral panic for sexuality/gender is always about youth sexuality


Youth are just easier to control
Generally they want to control everyone's sexuality, but youth are the easier place to start under the current status quo


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i capped this but im not sure if it's legible since the formatting made the post seem very large and the text smaller


also wrt intersectional theory im too much of a theorylet to comment on whether i agree or disagree with it but i do know most marxists ridicule intersectional theory so i honestly want to hear what everyone else thinks since its hard to gauge whether it's good or bad until i start researching it… which means reading, which i dont usually do…


i don't know if they do lmao, it seems like only leftypol and a few select boomers have a hateboner against it. intersectionality can be marxist, it literally analyzes the way class, gender, sexuality, and race intersect with each other


Psychopaths should just be executed and petty criminals rehabilitated humanely


Even psychopaths can be rehabilitated sometimes but they should still be kept away from rest of society.


I lost all my notes. Somebody screencapped some of my posts and uploaded them to booru. They're old and I no longer agree with some parts, but I think they're still relevant.


Psychopathy isn't a real thing outside of the imagination of true crime podcast listeners, Mr. Bleeding Heart Fascist


Psychopath isn't a valid diagnostic term anymore, its called ASPD, and while it is hard to treat and requires cooperation, it CAN be treated. I have multiple ASPD friends who are great people. Learn more before issuing death sentences retard


"Personality disorders" aren't valid medical diagnoses either


>"Personality disorders" aren't valid medical diagnoses either
They are in the DSM and are useful for diagnostic purposes.


Noooo, I want my free kill!
seriously though, what is it with internet morons (particularly gringos) that want to kill anyone they think is deficient or defective? Fucking eugenicists….


The DSM is vague guidelines, and it really stretches the imagination to think that happening to be bored and lying and literally explicitly "failure to conform to social norms and laws" require any sort of allopathic treatment


Ive heard MDMA can treat learned sociopathy at least


>The DSM is vague guidelines, and it really stretches the imagination to think that happening to be bored and lying and literally explicitly "failure to conform to social norms and laws" require any sort of allopathic treatment
Anon, its talking about physical harassment, murder, stalking, not typical social norms. DSM is for professionals to use


Ironically those calling for the death of all ASPD people are acting a bit ASPD themselves….


my face when self-defined autists start advocating for eugenics against """neurotypicals"""


>They are in the DSM
you arent exactly helping your position here with this


so are they not real things? do you have a better guidebook? nobody is saying DSM is perfect but anyone sufficiently aware knows these are real things. if you aren't aware, consider yourself lucky in many cases.


>Not even in favor of child circumcision, but that's some "obsessed and lost the plot" tier shit.
Yes you are. If you smear the critics of something you are defending it.
And it's not even some irrelevant tangent here, it's directly relevant as an example of a real harm that these people could direct their energy toward instead of imaginary pedophiles.


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For most people, the mere existence of someone who isn't "default" in everything is political.

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