/siberia/ - Off-topic

>the geopolitical events of the past two decades are a result of americans not believing in democracy hard enough

bold thesis

>>463053
"we'll do whatever we want, deal with it!"
>deals with it
"no not like that!"

>>471715
i remember being a fizzlebro at the start of the conflict and then watching the announcement live

>>471715
>>471752
>>471779
>>471780
Russia should have joined NATO

>>471787
It tried to.

>>471788
Multipolarbros…

>>471788
why did the us do it? the soviet union got dismantled, no more scary gommunizm, and they would have a means of containing china. there is literally no geopolitical benefit to doing this

>>471792
THey were high on neoliberal idealism back then, even more than now. They unironically thought le free market would fix Russia.

>>471780
Unfortunately, the us military turned out to have the better gepolitical analysts than millenial communists on the internet

>>471798
how? it was a retard move on monke's part. he got isolated from the west and pulled himself into a conflict that while not unmanagable, has lasted for over a year and a half without a victory in sight. what's his endgame?

>>471798
and then accuse communist theorists of actually being feds because feds are smart enough to read them

>>471801
The us military looked at the satellite photos, and statements made by putin, and concluded he is going to invade. They did material analysis.

Everyone else was too invested in their pet model/theory of geopolitics to see it coming. Ironically, this is idealist analysis.

Really strange moment in history.

>>471801
>what's his endgame?
https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/what-if-putin-true-goals-are-different?utm_campaign=post
This is over a year old but still worth considering.

>>471787
>Russia should have joined NATO
>>471788
>It tried to.
Both in 1954 when it was still the USSR and in the early 2000s when Putin first came to power. That's what gets me heated about this conflict. If you view it was starting in 2022 (invasion) or even 2014 (annexation of Crimea according to US, Crimea joining Russia by referendum according to Russia, I think both narratives contain elements of truth) you might take the superficial view and see Russia as aggressing totally unprovoked on Ukraine, without seeing the larger obvious strategy of the US trying to further balkanize Russia. The breakup of the USSR was a big goal for the USA, but it wasn't done. IT wanted to balkanize Russia because Russia is still so big, and US ideology views Russia as still being an empire/prisonhouse of various nations (never mind that the USA is that). But on top of that, there is obvious benefit to breaking up Russia, which is weakening a geopolitical enemy, surrounding Russia with more US-backed comprador states, and eventually making Russia too small and economically backward to maintain its own nuclear arsenal, which is the only one that rivals the US (for now). Then there is the gas problem. Russia was getting geopolitically very close to the EU, providing them with very cheap energy through the nordstream pipelines. The USA has a glut of Liquid Natural Gas it wants to sell. Get Ukraine and Russia into a war with each other, bomb nordstream, blame Russia saying false flag, then a few months later walk it back and blame ukrainian extremists (really all along it was the USA and Norway probably, since they benefit the most). So America wants to sell this LNG to the EU, but they're still buying cheaper Russian gas, albeit through the middleman of India instead of through Russia directly, due to sanctions. Then there's this whole hubris of sanctions, which traditionally have been very effective against small weak nations, but isn't very effective against Russia at all, since it has the land mass and variety of natural resources to be self sufficient even when economically isolated, and also it borders 16 other nations by land, which makes it easy to wage proxy wars against, but also makes it hard to really sanction, since any one of those 16 nations bordering it might just ignore the sanctions and take up the role of middleman with whoever would nominally obey the sanctions.

>>471801
>he got isolated from the west
the west was isolating Russia for decades despite Russia trying to warm up to the west after the collapse of the USSR. NATO/EU will always view Russia as an enemy due to its size, regional power, and geopolitical history (its Communist, Capitalist, and pre-capitalist history all put it at odds with western Europe, so economic ideology doesn't really come into it too much for the neoliberals Russia is this Eurasian menace to them. Too weird to live. Neither European nor Asian. It's viewed the same way the Ottoman empire used to be viewed, and until it is broken up into a bunch of neat little countries who are obedient to the global geopolitical order, and don't pose too much of a threat, it will continue to be viewed as a threat.)

>>471811
>the west was isolating Russia for decades despite Russia trying to warm up to the west after the collapse of the USSR
What are you talking about it was best friends with the West after 9/11 and Putin had a bromance with Bush >>471801 because they were both big fans of curtailing civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism. It isolated Russia after it attacked Georgia because he reckoned that NATO was taking the piss on him by admitting Eastern European statelets before Russia.

>>471809
>Get Ukraine and Russia into a war
This is where it all breaks down. You have to imagine the US to be so powerful that they can effectively mind control Russia into making a huge geopolitical blunder, for your version to make any sense.

I think the simplest explanation is that russia has a flawed model of geopolitical strategy (that some communists adopted at face value).
Along with the fact that their foreign policy is just an extension of their domestic policy. As, in their foreign policy is "how would this reflect on us domestically".
And this is why russia's actions look nonsensical in hindsight. It was more for the purposes of internal spectacle, than sensible geopolitical strategy.

>>471804
im a commie and i knew it was gonna happen
it was pretty obvious
this is more a problem of "midwit" types that just spiral themselves into having an over-thought-out pseud worldview that goes against all common sense