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Are crypto millionaires that own only crypto and no actual means of production bourgeois

>>578720
If you can survive the rest of your life on the capital you have (reasonably invested) then you are bourgeois IMO

Are they unproductive leeches? Yes.
Are they bourgeois? No.

>does winning the lottery make you bourgeois if you don't own MoP

No.

>>578720
>>578725
Crypto is not capital. It does not actually produce anything. Everything that crypto investors "make" comes from other crypto investors. At no point is there a production process creating new commodities, nor consumers paying for products to reimburse the "investors". They are not bourgeois.

>>578742
Crypto funds the production of drugs though, and some shitty crypto/NFT games. Also graphics cards. It does have some role in production.

>>578742
How about gold though what if you hoard gold is it different

>>578747
>Crypto funds the production of drugs though
It doesn’t, lol.

>and some shitty crypto/NFT games.

Crypto doesn‘t fund that either. You have game devs who make a game and create their own crypto currency to keep the accumulation and trade of their crypto churning. Making money with that doesn‘t make you bourgeois just like making money from selling rare TF2 hats doesn‘t make you bourgeois.

>Also graphics cards.

Your point being? Are you just listing random things? OP spoke of crypto investors. They make their money buying, holding and selling unreal money from and to other buyers and sellers.

>It does have some role in production.

“Some” is doing some heavy lifting here.

>>578720
They're hemits since that's negative wealth.
>>578725
You can't tho, it's crypto

>>578754
Crypto investors use their crypto to pay for things is my point, so it does drive production

>>578765
That is completely trivial.

>>578765
Production drives consumption, not the other way around.

>Are people with massive reserves, ergo having a stake in maintaining capitalism, benefitting from bourgeois society?
What do you think idiot

>>578772
isn't that supply side economics

>>578773
>reserves
internet money isn't real

They are class enemies and that's all that matters.

>>578720
speculative financial assets are means of production however crypto is a form of fictitious capital. it's tied not to real surplus value producing labor, but rather "proof of work" in solving an arbitrary math problem as a security checkpoint on the way to making a ledger entry so idk what you want to do with that info.

yanis varoufakis has this concept of "cloud capital" and "technofeudalism" which he wrote a book about. i read it, but I think he's overstating his case.

>>578775
money is a socially constructed abstraction of the money commodity, and the money commodity was traditionally a good, like precious metals, which were portable, slow to decay, and took a lot of socially necessary labor time to produce (i.e. mine and refine in the case of metals). this abstraction became useful because it allowed for a "universal third good" to mediate exchange between any two arbitrary parties. Once banks became larger and more centralized, paper money developed which was a further abstraction. They started off as guarantees of repayment (IOUs) in the form of money commodities, but once they became decoupled from the standard of any precious metal, you had fiat. Digital currency is simply another layer of abstraction on top of fiat.

TL;DR all money is just a socially constructed abstraction of the socially necessary labor time required to produce a commodity, and socially necessary labor time is itself an abstraction of labor itself.

Abstraction is necessary for society to exist, and comes in many forms. But it always isolates the things humans want to focus on and removes the things which are more circumstantial.

>>578775
If there's plenty of PB leeches online who can live cushy NEET lives just from owning cryptocurrency then it clearly is "real" money.

>>578778
>however crypto is a form of fictitious capital. it's tied not to real surplus value producing labor
This is irrelevant to people who became millionaires off cryptocurrency not having their 'life and death' dependent on competition anymore owing to their massive reserves.

>>578775
It's real as long as people are willing to trade Fiat currency for it.

>>578787
Well given it's crypto, it's not real by that criterion


>>578825
>pepe is impersonating a black man
oh nononono oldfrogcacas what is this?

>>578782
is runescape gold real
It requires labor input

>>578829
Contextually yes/no. in-game currency for in-game currency is just a mutual exchange of mud-pie's; a traded satisfaction of unproductive peculiar preferences that cannot be accounted for in socially necessary labor time. However when in-game currency is exchanged for actual currency then in that specific instance it is plausibly real exchange of labor time for transferrable money that can buy other goods.

>>578856
his definition of bourgeois is shit but they ARE bourgeois (petit bourgeois literally means the less wealthy portion of bourgeois society)

according to marx youre only bourgeois if you exploit labour, so no

>>578830
>actual currency
all currency is currency if it is valued by holders of said currency
a dollar is worth a dollar in america but worthless in germany
a videogame is likewise a platform with its own exchange-rate

>>578893
smartest leftypol user

>>578893
You haven't read a single page of Marx. The petit-bourgeois is the stratum of society that lives on a small stock of reserves/property/assets and supplements it with its own labour.

>>578923
crypto isn't reserves tho, it's debt. A bagholder can only cash out if you can find a willing bagholder.

>>578930
>>578775
ive never considered getting into crypto but stop being willfully retarded just to own le epic cryptobros dipshit

>>578893
the absolute state

They live off labor of others and produce no value. They are bourgeoisie


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