the careers of millions of artists. Do you care?
>>725345If it destroys their career they're worse than AI and deserve it
>>725364>2 more weeks and AI bubble will pop and everything will go back to normalSounds like cope to me.
>>725377You're saying shit that can be ai'd away
>>725377The artists that would have made the basic stuff are simply making more novel works now. No artist has proven any drop in demand since this shit started.
>>725367>Sounds like cope to me.That's what I sputter out through bellyaching laughter at ai bros when they deny that there's a bubble.
>>725345Didn't they say the same about the camera?
im an artist and anti ai hate feels like a form of virtue signaling to me due to how exploitative normal art has become over the years too
>>725353truth nuke especially when art became a commodity over time in the west and most artists have it as a part time job and being able to afford water, escape abusive households, etc unlike artists that are from a poor environment or background or from a different country or culture
>>725600That’s not comparable, cameras filled in what people couldn’t do, ai is replacing what people already can do
>>725618In fact, AI is trying to replace what people can do but it itself can't do.
>>725618>That’s not comparable, cameras filled in what people couldn’t do, ai is replacing what people already can doIt really is comparable. It has long been with art you're not just paying for the artwork, but the artist. An AI can't ever be a person or an artist, so it really can't possibly compete. It's like the same issue with "reps" or "reproductions" with clothing. Yeah you can save some money and pretend you have the real thing, but there will always be people that want to have the real thing, so they're willing to pay for it. Ultimately I doubt the reproduction market actually hurts the sales of the genuine items, because the people that would buy one or the other are two completely different kind of customers. Or like artificial diamonds and real ones. The artificial diamonds can look as perfect as can be, but if someone can discern the difference, then the real item will always be in demand even if more expensive. So the same way with art.
>>725622I mean art has been a very niche profession long before AI. I mean it's a popular phrase "starving artist." The few who study art that end up making a full time kind of salary off it have always been the outliers.
>>725622It's more like the dot com bubble, it will pop and it'll be nasty when it does. That won't mean AI is leaving or done, but there will be a lot of techbro suicides. It's why they're denying there's a bubble, it popping will slow down ai development, if it does anything to it. But it'll ruin a lot of the people/smaller businesses invented heavily in it.
Or at least it's preposterously likely that it will.
>>725616>truth nuke especially when art became a commodity over time in the west and most artists have it as a part time job and being able to afford water, escape abusive households, etc Tentamount to begging when the "artists" are worse than AI, like herr merchant houdini
>>725622>>725345And look at the OP too. Talking about furry artists. The furry commission market didn't even exist 20 years ago.
>>725645I never understood why people hate artists so much lol. Jealousy?
Art has never been a great career. The ones who make it into the industry were already getting squeezed hard for years with outsourcing and all that and these people are so few in number anyways. I don't get why there is so much obsession around what has to be like 10s of thousands of jobs at most.
>>725649>I don't get why there is so much obsession around what has to be like 10s of thousands of jobs at most.https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15432972>Despite the booming industry, there are only around 6,000 animators in Japan, according to estimates by the Japan Research Institute Ltd., with many leaving due to the poor working conditions.Lol. Only 6000 artists in the whole anime industry?
https://asia.nikkei.com/business/media-entertainment/wanted-30-000-animators.-japan-s-anime-future-at-risk >>725651And they still get paid peanuts because there is always more people that want to be professional artists than there are spots for, so if you take garbage wages so you can do what you love for a living. That's how it's been long long before AI.
>>725645yep and especially how predatory they can easily be too from what i’ve observed so far. saw an artist got upset that a twitter user used the money they made by making tweets to buy an another switch 2 so they decided to be predatory under said twitter user’s post about their commissions. as a result of this multiple people started praising ai art over real art because of how predatory the artist was. they also tend to be moralists too by using discriminatory “do not interacts” and adding in shit like “dni if pedo, zoo, pro ship” or whatever. because of the term “morality is a spook” i sometimes wonder if they’re also feds as well 🤔 but this is just based on my experience being within the art community and interacting with it back on twitter and instagram before deciding to delete my twitter account and use instagram for personal reasons. thank god im only sticking to art as a hobby otherwise the community is now filled with normies or wealthy people with unpleasant art styles who only knows how to use a pen
>>725720>they also tend to be moralists too by using discriminatory “do not interacts” and adding in shit like “dni if pedo, zoo, pro ship” or whatever. because of the term “morality is a spook” I love how you guys pick the niche tumblr erotic community as a representation of artists in general. I think the shit you're describing has little to nothing to do with them being artists and everything to do with them being weeb degenerate tumblrites, because they're all like that whether they have any drawing ability or not.
> but this is just based on my experience being within the art community <the art communityDude that's the fucking fetish community you're into.
>>725649>I never understood why people hate artists so much lol. Jealousy? From rightwingers it is just general antagonism towards anything intellectual or artistic + their natural sadism towards everyone.
From non-right wing people, pretty much yeah, jealousy. Either jealousy for being able to create art itself, or jealousy that artists can make money doing something meaningful and creative, while they are stuck in some soul crushing job.
>>725725I think these guys are just mad that people have the audacity to charge money for their work:
>>725722>or jealousy that artists can make money doing something meaningful and creative, while they are stuck in some soul crushing job.Artists don't make a lot of money at all lmao. Like in the game industry programmers make like 2-3 times the salary of artists. Yet these tech bros are still raging about the tyranny of the evil artists lol.
>>725649>I never understood why people hate artists so much lol. Jealousy? Most people don't hate artists, but a lot of them are elitist narcissists to the point they'll paint themselves as victims of hate motivated by jealously, which makes them quite hateable.
>>725744>Most people don't hate artists, but a lot of them are elitist narcissists to the point they'll paint themselves as victims of hate motivated by jealously, which makes them quite hateable.Lol. I was replying to posts specifically talking about how they hate artists. And then you chose to feel so personally attacked you're seething. You guys definitely got something weird going on.
I just get it too, nobody is doing this shit with music or writing.
>hehh look at this robot song I generated
>Stupid guitarists are going to be out of a job soon, hehehe
It's so weird.
>>725722its funny to see people mad at someone’s experience on an image board. and then water it down like it’s nothing like comparing the art community to the “fetish community” (whatever the hell that is apparently). this stuff happens outside of tumblr too by the way. just get off tumblr and you will understand what im talking about otherwise im supporting ai out of spite
>>725622The desire to have the 'real' thing is just commodity fetishism tho and will not exist in socialism / communism. Every factory will receive all the new clothing patterns so if there is demand for Jojo fashion clothing in the area it can be produced.
>>725598Of course you can't prove it, because it's a niche market of small producers, people just quit making art if they can't find work
>>725868In socialism we will make 100,000 perfect copies of the Mona Lisa and mix them up so nobody knows what the real one is
>>725871Wouldn't there be cases of people quitting if that were the case? No one has quit over this, especially not people that were making money.
>>725754Music can get most of its money through real life ticket sales and the only part of writing that is under threat is low quality smut, which are either slashfics done for free and mainly for the author's enjoyment, or low quality meme-tier porn books where the writers have already been proletarianised by big publishers.
>>725873The only problem I see with that is that the Mona Lisa is a historical artefact. For that reason the original should be preserved seperate because we might need to study the layers of paint or something. Apart from that I see no problem with making 100,000,000,000,000 perfect copies of the Mona Lisa. I don't see why an artist would be unhappy that their work is being spread to many people, and it would just make their name more famous, the only ones who want it to be exclusive are reactionaries.
>>725868That's not what they're saying tho, they mean supporting the specific person that came up with something. But under socialism they wouldn't need support in the first place, everyone would be nominally supported by default already.
So really it'd make art
just a form of language again, and AI would be an annoyance because you want to hear what someone in specific said.
Imagine if libs wanted to make reading marxist works harder by flooding the web with AI generated versions of Das Capital? It wouldn't work, since there's dedicated websites you can just go to if you wanna read Marx, and any artist could just make a personal website to be just as safe against that, but that's the premise here.
>>725877
>don't see why an artist would be unhappy that their work is being spread to many people, and it would just make their name more famous, the only ones who want it to be exclusive are reactionaries.yeah same. obviously stealing art and slapping it onto gen ai is bad but that’s the only thing i’m worried about. otherwise i don’t care about ai much cause i wanna focus on making paintings for entertainment and to share my story through art
>>725824>just get off tumblr and you will understand what im talking about otherwise im supporting ai out of spiteGood for you faggot. Go ahead and support the AI out of spite. You seem to have some kind of deep-seated emotional trauma related to artists and I'm wondering why. Were you molested by one as a kid or something?
>>725973holy anger issues
imagine getting mad at an anonymous person on leftypol 🤞
>>725973
>You seem to have some kind of deep-seated emotional trauma related to artists and I'm wondering whyi’m an artist myself and my friends are artists too lolwut
>>725979Professionals? Or you mean like you doodle in your free time?
>>725978>holy anger issues>imagine getting mad at an anonymous person on leftypol 🤞He's the one talking about "supporting AI out of spite" towards the artists that hurt him lol. There's only one side that's angry in this discussion and I'm sincerely curious as to how that even happens. It's weird as shit.
>>725981someone in the thread said if ai destroys their carrier then they deserve and yet nobody even noticed it. nobody here hates artists, we just find it to be a virtue signaling thing, or we just don’t like its community. two different things. there’s even an ai hentai thread here too. i even replied earlier that im an artist myself with artist friends as well. i don’t care about ai discourse im just here to input my opinions and go play video games. im not even angry either due to the aforementioned. you add “lol” at the end of your sentence so im assuming your the one mad at anons on a screen because people are criticizing you and you’re just projecting your trauma you fetishize involving you getting molested onto others or because you unironically think a bot is gonna steal your job over you drawing furry gay scat porn as part time
>>725868>The desire to have the 'real' thing is just commodity fetishism tho that's not what commodity fetishism means.
>>725997>i even replied earlier that im an artist myselfMeaning like you've doodled before. lol.
>or because you unironically think a bot is gonna steal your job over you drawing furry gay scat porn as part timeI don't think this AI trash will take anyone's job. It's like saying drum machines can take drummer's jobs. They are fundamentally different products.
I get it now tho. You can't make a living from art so you feel mad about people that do.
communism is strictly about the proletariat not about saving artisans from proletarianization lmfao
>yet another fucking AI thread
nobody IRL even cares about this shit
>>726006
>Meaning like you've doodled before. lol.i don’t only do doodles. i do sketches, cartoon drawings, and practice semi realism whenever i can. also still adding the “lol” in your message for some reason. definitely mad. please get off of leftypol and go back to wherever you came from. i’m here to discuss not to argue with a xitter user who hates anime
>I get it now tho. You can't make a living from art so you feel mad about people that do.first you projecting yourself onto others and now the manipulation over opinions on a screen. jesus christ. why is it so easy to make people like you worked up over others through a screen? i feel like you’re just annoyed because i like to do it as a hobby and not because i wanna start a mini art business. and also because i pointed out the “erotic” tumblrites in fandoms you mentioned also made an impact on the art community within other social medias as well (mostly xitter, and tik tok in this case, but im starting to see it happening to instagram and bluesky as well. and before you say anything, i deleted my xitter account, i barely use tumblr and bluesky, and i now only use instagram to talk to friends)
>>726014>communism is strictly about the proletariat not about saving artisans from proletarianization lmfaotruth nuke plus i just wanna do art as a hobby
>>726029>picNobody has tits that big
>>726008That's just distilled ideology
>>725728I don't have so much of a problem with artists as is, rather I'm much more pissed that everyone immediately became a luddite the moment the drawfags started to have competition from automation.
I've never seen anyone express remotely the same concern with LLM coding or when no-code tools became available, or in general any other industry got automated.
It's how capitalism works and how everyone has to deal with it. Add to it that artists that aren't employed or do it as a hobby are basically petit-bourg.
And top of that there are legitimate use cases for AI art (or whatever you wanna call it) , mostly as backgrounds, decorative pictures for blogs etc. Minor or hobby things that would either require a license or paying too much money what the function of the resulting picture is.
It's 1 AM and I'm really tired.
>>726040>That's just distilled ideologyNope. That's just facts. You can create cheaper alternatives to products, but that doesn't mean that people no longer want to buy the product that the alternative is imitating.
>>726032>the proletariat is an "abstract concept"you might just be retarded lmfao
<inb4 le masses rhetoricpeak PB shit
>>726064No one said anything remotely like that faggot. You guys are weird. I don't know why it's about visual artists in particular. Everything you could say about the visual artists about applies to professional musicians, but none of it would engender the same visceral hatred as for visual artists for some reason.
>>726064>pretend freelancers who get to sell their own self made products for full price to paypigs online And it's always related to this. Just like that other guy who probably sells smut himself. I don't think any normal person would think of the smut commission market when someone says "artists." I'm sure most normal people don't even know such a thing exists.
>>725997>nobody here hates artists, anime image board posters are neoliberal subjects, so logically they are indoctrinated into the same ideology as all these disgusting AI tech vermin who sneer at reading Shakespeare
>>726064>freelancers who get to sell their own self made products for full price to paypigs online (which there are plenty around) typical leftist ideology, you sound like one of Obama's Zionists with how much contempt you have for people who dare to publically admit they crushed under the neoliberal entrepreneurial grindset ideology of post-fascism
>>726084learn to code, but wokely
>>726084>>726113its so funny when sheltered autists believe everyone a) cares about their hobby as much as them and b) has enough free time as they do
artists are either extreme corporate bootlickers or apolotical libs so maybe this'll shock them into thinking(spoiler: it has done nothing of the sort)
LLMs and image generators have taken over the word ai such that dumbasses really think game pathing AI and their "ai" slop is the exact same thing and think its a gotcha.
>>725345Communism seeks to abolish wage labor in case you didn't get the memo.
why are most people into furry for the money and not as a hobby
>>726389>(spoiler: it has done nothing of the sort)the downwardly mobile petit bourgeois are historically always the blackest reaction, best example being nazi germany
Once again, I imagine if you were having your fantasy narrative about how professional guitarists who made a living off of playing guitar were being outmoded by suno.ai or whatever kek.
>>727036I mean because you still won't get it:
>It's not that many people>they don't make that much moneyI mean the final point, like I don't really get it, so you found a formulaic way to make a cheap imitation? For what porpoise?
>>727023Twitter culture is hustle culture. Furries outside of twitter are legit just hobbyists / browsers of the fruits of said hobbyists.
Twitter added an SEO aspect to social interaction, such that even those that don't do commissions or anything were still competing in an attention market. Furries were just the most aware and vocally critical of this, but anyone on twitter is very much like that.
>>727040>not REAL furries, le REAL furries have enough money and free time to do it for freelol middle classers are so sad
idk why these threads always focus on twitter shit and never professional artists who work for a wage either
>>727041>idk why these threads always focus on twitter shit and never professional artists who work for a wage eitherGenerally their employer pays for their AI art generation subscription and they recognize slop as a tool. They're not in a race to the bottom competing with stable diffusion on who can draw dog dicks cheapest.
>>727041I see Misato has been hard at work bringing twitter tourists with no clue what middle class means here.
I'm going to simply say that if you live outside of China you're middle class or bourgoise.
Especially if you're homeless.
>>726011It's dead obvious by the way
If you didn't notice that, you're ngmi
>>727047
>I'm going to simply say that if you live outside of China you're middle class or bourgoise. Especially if you're homelessthe chinese glazers have gone schizo and is now spurting out nonsense
please take your meds man
>>727047<bring up money and free time<still get mad about the correct use of middle classeslearn to read dipshit
>twitter tourists with no clue what middle class means herewe have been filled with amerilards who think the only middle classes are the stupidly small section of small business owners and absolutely nobody else, everyone else magically has revolutionary class interests despite owing property and reserves since day 1 :)
>I'm going to simply say that if you live outside of China you're middle class or bourgoise. Especially if you're homeless.only an incredibly disingenuous retard who lives in a bubble and has never interacted with a minimum wage single mom could pretend artists
who dont even need to get paid to pursue their hobbies are anything remotely proletarian and exactly explains why they can only reach milquetoast "anti-capitalist" positions at best like getting mad at artists who take commissions and pretending the furry fandom is a monolith and the typical noble savage view of autists that these shitholes usually take
>>727156leftypol is 99% liberals who can only take one of two positions: 99% of workers are proletarians or some third worldist nonsense about class position depending on nationality lol, no nuance or critical analysis at all, only contrarianism from two equally retarded sides of liberal discourse
>>727163>they can only reach milquetoast "anti-capitalist" positions at bestYuup, lol. Funnily enough despite Marx and Engels being petit-bourgeois themselves, scam artists, idiots doing podcasts and people employed by their own parents, all writing complete gibberish have more in common with Proudhon than them.
>>727040People who say shit like this are just mirroring typical bourgeois ideological views rather than turning it on its head.
>>727040I feel like if you're gonna recognize Twitter as the great satan of the web that it is, you should actually stop using twitter. Furries outside of twitter are broke and often do try to make some money from it. That's not some moral failing and doesn't automataically make them le petbooj–despite what infrareds that Misato brought from twitter would have you believe–that's just what having a hobby looks like under capitalism.
I convince myself that getting 5 hours of sleep and some drawing practice in rather than 7 hours of sleep a couple days per week by saying it'll have a payout later, and that might be the boost I need to finally get to China. It'd be nice if it could be for it's own sake, but that's unreasonable to impose as an ideal.
quoted wrong post >>727203i’ve also seen this happen outside of twitter too tbh thanks to also tumblr and tik tok making an impact on the internet during the pandemic. i feel like as a result of this. the art community lost empathy and will just refuse to “work” with anyone a little weird despite the art community having worse people
slop replaced by slop
>>727530trvke. like am i supposed to believe the swarm of ychs and "o"cs and funneh relatable low effort comics arent just human produced slop
>>727604congratulations, you have replaced the biological slop machines that produces genuinely valuable art like 1-5% of the time with a mechanical slop machine that produces genuinely valuable art 0% of the time.
>>727625Absolutely nothing prevents this biomass from competing with AI on "genuinely valuable art".
>>727625They are quite good at more abstract styles
>>727625lol at this hysterical loser. how is ai slop preventing people from making "genuinely valuable art" exactly?
>>727625Even if Real(tm) Art(tm) stopped being made (never gonna happen, btw) we still have centuries of past art to enjoy.
>>727604Slop isn't a quality judgement, it's the non-communicativeness of it and the SEO aspect of it that makes it slop. Even low effort art is still communicative, even if in a small-talk sense.
>>727721even by your stupidly narrow definition that you totally pulled out of your ass the garbage i brought up is still slop
>>727722You just don't like small talk. Art is just language, developmentally and in practice.
>>727724>implying ychs and "o"cs and funneh relatable low effort comics arent SEO-powered bullshitare you genuinely mentally challenged bruh
even the prompt of AI slop has to be typed by a real person
>>727721>>727724It's soo obvious when phil undergrads join a discussion. Literally nobody even uses these definitions.
>>727725But they're still communicative, even if on the level of "how's the weather today."
Also I don't get why you're putting the concept of OCs there. Literally just the concept of non-fanart.
>>727726I've never even been to philidelphia, meds.
Also this is what I'm drawing from, not anything from college:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Lowenfeld >>725364the feverish desperation with which people yearn for the AI bubble bursting is as irrational as the bubble itself. the bubble could burst tomorrow and everything will be the same or worse. google and maybe microsoft would finally claw a monopoly over this shit in the US (which they already kind of do have, they're just letting competitors exist), and image models run on consumer hardware already. nothing would change for you.
>>727845AI image generation existed long before this hype and it meant fuck all for artists other than a cool avenue for pseudo-procgen. Again, the only reason any artists complained is because they fell for the same marketing you did.
It would just take the ankle weights off artists using this shit as an excuse not to lock in and hone their craft.
>>727847i'll reply to your barely relevant post, artists complained because it closed a very profitable avenue, and it absolutely did. i absolutely guarantee 90% of adult commissions are being fulfilled by AI today. whether there was a primitive form of procedural generation is completely irrelevant, why even bring it up? are you stupid and wanted to drop some stupid factoid to look like you know what you're talking about?
>>727859>it closed a very profitable avenueYeah, corpo jobs. I already mentioned those were off the table:
>>725364 Vast majority of artists uneffected, especially uneffected commission artists.
>i absolutely guarantee 90% of adult commissions are being fulfilled by AI today.Source: vibes
Before this people could simply browse boorus. Despite artists attention seeking by claiming they've lost work, none have proven loss of demand, and in fact by complaining they gained more, benefiting from AI as a marketing phenomenon.
>whether there was a primitive form of procedural generation is completely irrelevant, why even bring it upThen you admit nothing really changed, just more marketing was poured into something that already existed.
>are you stupid and wanted to drop some stupid factoid to look like you know what you're talking about?You need to learn to not panic type, adding that really defanged your post.
>>727861>uneffectedspeaking of defanging posts lol
>Before this people could simply browse boorus. >Source: vibesBoorus are currently filled with AI art, like most of it is AI. It's hard to get a good picture of who it displaced because, again, most of it is entirely informal, but if the place where most of this shit ends up is now made up of mostly AI stuff, then it's hard to argue that it isn't the dominant way people are producing this shit
>Then you admit nothing really changedSeriously, are you dumb? They went from making unintelligible crap that barely resembled anything real to really good anime titty generator. Why even bring it up? It's 100% irrelevant. It makes you look stupid each time you mention it.
This whole “muh AI is ruining artists careers” is getting old.
Most of those artists who you complain about are freelance commissions artists who do plain computerized manual drawings of iconic cartoon franchises.
>>725618Wdym?
People made realistic drawings of people before the camera.
The people who are getting upset about “AI” in art are people whom are scarred to more blue-collar fields of work
>>727872>minor spelling errorCope firstie
>>727872>Boorus are currently filled with AI art, like most of it is AI.Gelbooru and e621 seem pretty consistent about zapping it, and there's dedicated AI boorus so people don't bother.
>Seriously, are you dumb? They went from making unintelligible crap that barely resembled anything real to really good anime titty generator.From abstract (fun) to not really passable. I saw one latina pregnant goblin that seemed like it could've passed as a 3D model but it's it, you'd have to have long covid to think this is displacing anything.
>Why even bring it up? It's 100% irrelevant. It makes you look stupid each time you mention it.Bring up what in specific? That this has been around for a while and hasn't improved substantially?
>>727874this or they do adoptables or hybrid anthro ocs for money. kind of like nfts. they also tend to set their commissions prices way too high
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