[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/tech/ - Technology

"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature" - Karl Marx
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon


File: 1639994812722.png (1.01 MB, 970x546, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.12577

VERY GUD NEWS!!!
>China to ditch all Windows PCs by 2022 – could this be Linux’s time to shine?
All government services will stop using Windows in the next three years.
https://www.techradar.com/news/china-to-ditch-all-windows-pcs-by-2022-could-this-be-linuxs-time-to-shine

If more and more made-in-China PCs are being produced and they also follow suit, could that mean Linux taking over the world by 2030? Ultra based.

 No.12578

CW: From 2020, may be slightly outdated.

 No.12579

Does the Chinese government, either directly or by way of SoEs, contribute much at all to Linux as it stands? According to Wikipedia, the government sector already runs on (Neo)Kylin for about 90%. Unfortunately, that additional 10 doesn't seem likely to revolutionize the way China interacts with FOSS.

 No.12580

the linux kernel is developed by a single guy though, not reliable
they should use one of the BSDs, or develop their own

 No.12581

>>12579
Neo kylin is Linux?

 No.12582

>>12579
>Does the Chinese government, either directly or by way of SoEs, contribute much at all to Linux as it stands?
I have no idea if they do that officially, but all the technicians using this system might make contributions as individuals.
> doesn't seem likely to revolutionize the way China interacts with FOSS.
they started using it recently, it will take time for FOSS sensibilities to permeate. They might need a Chinese version of Richard Stallman.

>>12580
>the linux kernel is developed by a single guy though, not reliable
lol look at this guy talking nonsense, thousands of people work on the linux kernel.

 No.12583

>>12580
>the linux kernel is developed by a single guy though, not reliable
yeah its my grandma, she's single-handedly spearheading development
Linus is still crying over his "inappropriate" behaviour

Still jokes and trolling aside, why should the chinese gov use one of the BSDs?
one reason I can think of is the less restrictive license, but we all know the chinese essentially don't give a shit about copyright, so it kinda makes my point null

 No.12584

>>12582

>They might need a Chinese version of Richard Stallman.

lel someone please do a shoop of Stallman and Mao's face like they did with John Cena

 No.12585

>>12582
>They might need a Chinese version of Richard Stallman.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Chinese version of RMS would be allowed (or at least be given the platform) to do what the American Stallman does/did.

Propietary software has been very, very profitable for China, especially considering it's historically been a lot less shy to ban western software in favor of homegrown alternatives than the other way around. Politics aside for a moment, what incentive does China have to open-source apps like, say, TikTok or WeChat? What incentive does it have to allow/provide a platform for software activists opposing the propietary monopolies?

 No.12590

>>12584
>lel someone please do a shoop of Stallman and Mao's face like they did with John Cena
>>12585
>Unfortunately, I don't think the Chinese version of RMS would be allowed (or at least be given the platform) to do what the American Stallman does/did.
Oh you two think like a carbon copy of Stallman, except with Chinese ethnic features. Yeah that probably won't work, but the FOSS principles are pretty universal and can be adapted to the conditions in China.

The believe that there are fewer freedoms in China than in the west has more to do with propaganda than actual truth. Their discourse is very different, they don't talk about "freedoms" the way Americans or Europeans do, but if you actually compare how much people are constrained from exercising their will, i doubt your insinuations would prove correct. (to be fair this would need something like a serious academic effort where you follow a large population sample size through their daily lives and count how often they get their personal will blocked or nudged)

Look at the actuality of Foss software, it's more neutral, politically and philosophically than proprietary corporate wares.
Proprietary corporations have taken on aspects of a church, they combine technology with secular religion of one type or another, that's what makes it so irritating to use corporate tech, you have to buy into their visions. FOSS tech isn't entirely free from this, but it's easier to ignore all of that and just get utility from technology without getting harassed. The freedom in free software is used to make software based on technical considerations, to use what method works the best. In reality it's not used to challenge power, even if the rhetoric sounds like it. In free software all the code is published, that makes it less suitable for conspiratorial stuff.

Stallman often frames things in moralistic terms like "ethical software that respects the user". The material reality of this is the abusive elements (malicious features) in proprietary software are superfluous elements that aren't needed to make software function, they often make the functionality worse. Look at the Windows operating system, it has all sorts of malicious features, and you can complain about how immoral that is, but another way of looking at this is to say, an operating system does not need these features to work, it's unnecessary bits that can be removed, that make it cost less mental labor to build and maintain. There are many different ways you can come to the conclusion that FOSS is the better way of doing things. Maybe a Chinese Stallman would adapt the arguments for FOSS so that it makes sense for Chinese conditions.

>>12585
>Propietary software has been very, very profitable for China,
You're totally ignorant about this, even western capitalists ignore IP-laws alot, and treat it like a legal battlefield to harm competitors with copyright trolling. Chinese capitalists care even less about it then western capitalists. Proprietary technology means that rival capitalists use industrial espionage and reverse engineering to make copies. The only real effect is that nobody releases technical details about their technology to the general public, which means it takes a lot longer for technical know how to become part of the general intellect that makes it available for driving technological advances.

>especially considering it's historically been a lot less shy to ban western software in favor of homegrown alternatives than the other way around.

That has nothing to do with software licenses.

>Politics aside for a moment, what incentive does China have to open-source apps like, say, TikTok or WeChat?

The incentive to use open-source is because it has advantages for software development. There are less hurdles to get stuff done, to get security fixes patched, to attract talented software engineers that are familiar with the code base . You have to prove that there is an incentive to do all the extra work to keep software code secret.

>What incentive does it have to allow/provide a platform for software activists opposing the propietary monopolies?

The benefits of opensource outweigh the downsides a lot, propriety software is just extra work for obscurantism. Open source software doesn't really prevent monopolies, because those are based on network effects, and concentration of capital like server farms, not software exclusivity.

I think offering opensource code is also a form of softpower. And proprietary software might be doomed anyway, eventually somebody will find a way to turn binary files back into easily readable source code. It might even be the next logical step in software development to have the ability to edit binary files on the fly in high level programing languages, even while you run the program, to speed up software devellopment.

 No.12591

>>12590
>It might even be the next logical step in software development to have the ability to edit binary files on the fly in high level programing languages, even while you run the program, to speed up software devellopment.
Lisp has been doing that for well over half a century

Foss builds productive forces is a good line mebbe?

 No.12592

>>12590
>You're totally ignorant about this
I'm really not, you're just misinterpreting my point. I know about the technological benefits of FOSS. I know that industrial espionnage is in no way exclusive to China. I know that IP law is widely circumvented worldwide. My point stands.

>That has nothing to do with software licenses.

It provides Chinese software companies with an automatic domestic market of about a billion people. Such a guarantee is great for Chinese stocks. Ergo, an incentive *not* to go FOSS as this would inevitably produce forks without analytics and info to sell to advertisers.

You are absolutely right when you say that
>The incentive to use open-source is because it has advantages for software development. There are less hurdles to get stuff done, to get security fixes patched, to attract talented software engineers that are familiar with the code base . You have to prove that there is an incentive to do all the extra work to keep software code secret.
Unfortunately, as in the West, getting government, business and end consumers to work in tandem to create a virtuous cycle of adoption and innovation in a lot harder than it should be in practice. This is, once again, because of as-is Chinese economic interests, as with economies around the world.

Most of your statements are based on assumptions of goodwill and general optimism. It's not that I disagree with you, I'm typing this comment on an X230 running Fedora as we speak. It's that (outside of servers and software development where it has been historically dominant), the meteoric rise of FOSS has been a year away from being a year away forever now.

 No.12593

>>12591
>Lisp has been doing that for well over half a century
i didn't know that, thx for bringing that to my attention
>Foss builds productive forces is a good line mebbe?
yeah
>>12592
>I know that industrial espionnage is in no way exclusive to China. I know that IP law is widely circumvented worldwide. My point stands.
How does your point still stand ?
>It provides Chinese software companies with an automatic domestic market of about a billion people.
Proprietary software licenses "provides a market" ? I don't know what that means , it sounds like one of these empty phrase, ""economists"" say.
>Such a guarantee is great for Chinese stocks.
Proprietary software is a guarantee for stocks ? what does that even mean ? And I doubt the CPC cares about fictional capital, unless it's used to fund development for productive forces.

>Ergo, an incentive *not* to go FOSS as this would inevitably produce forks without analytics and info to sell to advertisers.

Analytics means creating customer profiles, right ? What purpose does that have ? You don't need to know who exactly wants yellow socks, you just need to know how many people want yellow socks. I can't fathom why this is being done in the first place. But if you have to have that for some reason, why don't you give people a program where they can create their own customer profile and then the program parses all the products that are being offered to find a match, that would be simpler, more accurate and more efficient and there's no reason for it to not be FOSS.

>Unfortunately, as in the West, getting government, business and end consumers to work in tandem to create a virtuous cycle of adoption and innovation in a lot harder than it should be in practice.

what does that have to do with software licenses ? It's hard to get people to collaborate in general, proprietary software doesn't make it easier, it makes it harder.
>This is, once again, because of as-is Chinese economic interests, as with economies around the world.
You have not made a clear argument why Chinese economic interests align with proprietary software over foss ?

>Most of your statements are based on assumptions of goodwill and general optimism.

How ?

>It's not that I disagree with you, I'm typing this comment on an X230 running Fedora as we speak.

that's a sweet setup, Nice

>It's that (outside of servers and software development where it has been historically dominant), the meteoric rise of FOSS has been a year away from being a year away forever now.

No the consumer market is just stuck with proprietary software licenses because of legacy stuff and because of inertia, where people just kept doing what they've always done. On the consumer side the downsides of proprietary stuff weren't as harsh as on servers admittedly, but all that says is that pressure for change is less pronounced, but there still is pressure for change.

 No.12605

>>12593
>No the consumer market is just stuck with proprietary software licenses because of legacy stuff and because of inertia, where people just kept doing what they've always done. On the consumer side the downsides of proprietary stuff weren't as harsh as on servers admittedly, but all that says is that pressure for change is less pronounced, but there still is pressure for change.
I guess where we disagree is how software companies make their money these days. Sure, delivery companies like Amazon which use advanced analytics for recommendations and the like still derive their primary income from their logistics and production, albeit other companies'. Proprietary software, however, gains its income from:
1. Licenses (as in "activate your license" - cf. Adobe, Jetbrains, MS Office, many many instances of more niche software)
2. Selling personal information to advertisers
3. Advertising itself

The way I see it, and correct me if I'm wrong, these are all income streams that practically disappear when an application goes open source. I agree with you that the software side of things regarding security, stability, performance and customization nigh-unavoidably improves. But bourgeois do not care about this. They care about money.

China, regardless of the ultimate goal of the past 40 years of their capitalist development of productive forces, is still a bourgeois economy. It cares about the money provided by the aforementioned income streams more than it cares about the positives of FOSS. Don't take my word for it, just look at all domestically and internationally popular Chinese software in history so far. I think your point that
>No the consumer market is just stuck with proprietary software licenses because of legacy stuff and because of inertia, where people just kept doing what they've always done. On the consumer side the downsides of proprietary stuff weren't as harsh as on servers admittedly, but all that says is that pressure for change is less pronounced, but there still is pressure for change.
… is unfortunately quite naive. It ignores corporate greed and how that greed has negatively influenced the adoption of FOSS throughout history. Without copyleft licenses like the GPL, "embrace, extend and extinguish" is as ubiquitous as ever, as shown by the recent (admittedly illegal) use of OBS code by the new TikTok streaming feature.
https://wikiless.org/wiki/Embrace-extend-extinguish?lang=en

Sorry for being so scatterbrained, btw, I hope I'm making a lick of sense because I really do think this is an important conversation to be had. I'm just on adderall and inbetween tinkering on a handful of projects for school, lol.

 No.12606

>>12585
>TikTok or WeChat
Do you expect they are gonna open source their killer app under a capitalist society, only thing they would open source is what they use for building these services like Microsoft Google Facebook etc. did

 No.12607

I wish they went full Red Star OS

 No.12608

>>12583
>the chinese essentially don't give a shit about copyright
they do though

 No.12609

REACTOS WILL FINALLY MAKE IT WOO WOOOOO oh no it wont
but yeah awesome if true

 No.12616

>>12608
>they do though
whaddya mean? aren't they known for making bootleg stuff?

 No.12619

>>12616
the government has been cracking down on it. a big problem is that western companies don't bother filing copyright suits in their jurisdiction cuz scary PRC, so nothing can even happen about it in the first place


Unique IPs: 13

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]