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/tech/ - Technology

"Technology reveals the active relation of man to nature" - Karl Marx
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Currently, the best you can hope for when looking for a secure XMPP client is Pidgin and Gajim, which is not ideal. Aside from rampant security issues and lackluster development/maintenance, there is no integrated OTR and OMEMO support.
Historically, the reason for this disappointing selection has been due to the sabotage of porkies like at AOL or Microsoft who purposefully killed the project so their own software could hold a monopoly.

So, in the spirit of communism, I'd like to propose an autonomous community project for developing and maintaining a client:
- Multiplatform (Linux, Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android)
- Modern, default features for stuff like end-to-end encryption and media sharing, etc.
- Proper delegation of dev duties according to principle of mutual aid. Individuals contribute what they can and the group determines how it fits into the project and how the individual could be supported in their contribution
- Up to date with https://xmpp.org/extensions/
- In-built default OTR, and for groupchats, OMEMO. The client shouldn't generate keys for the user though

Pointless, confusing modularity on the user's end can instead be done for them by a smart, mutualistic development team that are themselves users that want a proper chat client.

Let the ruling classes tremble at a communistic secure chat client!


Oh, also forgot to mention support for language translations and accessibility stuff


Matrix has superseded XMPP, why not direct any effort there?


Easier to develop for


Matrix also introduced a hell of a mess of metadata. The code is also a hodgepodge and it's by no means stable (there are recurring security breaches to this day).


What about tox then? The project maintains an API to low-level functionality (toxcore, toxav, toxencryptsave). Its architecture is sufficiently decentralized and allows for the highest possible grade of pseudonymity. It has clients on all major platforms except IOS and you could get the cli (toxic) to compile on many more.
XML was never meant to be a messaging protocol.


I'd say a solid XMPP client would be a better bet for the short-term, Tox is some meme project from 4chan who, IIRC, rolled their own encryption. They also have had terrible history with funding blunders etc.
In the long-term a serverless solution would be ideal, though P2P IM hasn't really been perfected yet from what I can tell


Everyone myself included is too fucking tired of their jobs to develop anything
I really studied quite a bit about xmpp and I have ideas. But I'm way too tired and demotivated and depressed oh shit why do I have to bear this miserable wageslave existence


Seems easier but also uses soy tech
The client is basically the browser (and browser = proprietary google platform)


Although tbh xml itself is maximum soy and overengineering. Why do you think xmpp is so buggy, it's because its overengineered the hell out of, just look at the XEPs, how it has multiple implementations same features, how it "achieves" QoS not by one but by several poorly composable extensions etc
Not that it isn't fixable while remaining xmpp
But xml isn't fixable unfortunately


XML is miles better than JSON, and like i said in the OP, the client will have everything integrated neatly
P2P is pointless when you have forward secrecy and deniability of authentication


>XML is miles better than JSON,
json, bencode, everything is better than xml
because e.g. json has dicts lists etc that map into your language structures
while xml doesn't even have a standard way of representing a list, you have to either use specialized libs like xpath or waste lines of codes for converting data from it into language structures
>P2P is pointless when you have forward secrecy and deniability of authentication
It's because a centralized server can go down. With xmpp if your interlocutor is on a different server the probability is twice as big


but with p2p someone always needs to be online…. or you only recieve shit when both parties are online. im sure there are ways around that but overall it would still be fragile.

i dont get whats wrong with servers or gajim though… i use it, theres an omemo plugin, it works fine, and i upkeep my server and never have problems there. a server is super useful for this type of stuff. (and if u dont use servers,u have to use something similar to bootstrap your network unless you save ips… which is fucked and destroys anonymity and also only works for static ip. whole thing seems like a headache.)


There are loads of desktop clients, most of them are still rough around the edges but Matrix doesn't depend on the browser



I'll make the logo


here's how to XMPP, OP:
* Snikket on mobile ( https://snikket.org/ )
* Gajim on desktop ( https://gajim.org/ )
* prosody on the server ( https://prosody.im/ )
>there is no integrated OMEMO support
yes there is

hide json threads
ignore json posts
do not reply to json posters


You can't really do something like this unless you already have something to show, either an org that will back you, hours you can pour into this, etc.
I feel you comrade.


you need an extension for OMEMO on Gajim
also i just don't like GTK lol
along with Snikket, they're still pretty barebones


It's a bad idea to brand (for lack of a better word) software by an ideology. It will attract malicious actors against it.

Matrix lacks p2p communication.


>you need an extension for OMEMO on Gajim
I think it's installed by default these days. but I could be wrong. might depend on the distro
>along with Snikket, they're still pretty barebones
both support OMEMO, text, images, audio calls, video calls, group chats.. what more do you want?


they probably want google chrome inside their messenger, anything else is too bare bones for kids these days


>what more do you want?
something that isn't just a checklist tbqhwy


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yes, and integration with facegooglecord
so you don't know what you want? fuck
it's like a friend of mine says: users are like clients, except they don't pay


you should be a patronizing techlord elsewhere


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>the user thinks they have anything important to say


Simple PGP could be better than OTR


conversations.im is great for android (for free on fossdroid) - managed to convince my tech-normie friends to switch thanks to this one.
As for desktop, it becomes a bit more difficult. All of the clients suck, but as of now I'm on Gajim (even done a full translation for my native language), but I got to admit it's a python clusterfuck. I even started reporting bugs on their gitlab (which I never did prior to this) but it's fucked nonetheless. Anyway it works (mostly), for encryption you will have to install plugins - they're either included, or in repos, or if you're (god forbid) on windows you'll have to install them from within the client. Best of luck.


>* Snikket on mobile ( https://snikket.org/ )
Is this just Conversations with a slightly modified version of XMPP? Confusing website

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