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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Hello, /leftypol/!
Welcome to the Reading General Sticky! This thread will be dedicated to the sharing, discussing, and general banter about various leftist thinkers, theories, and political outlooks.

Don't forget to check out >>>/edu/ for more reading and discussion!

———————
Common Right Wing Talking Points Debunks
——————–

Check out the /edu/ thread at
https://leftypol.org/edu/res/5576.html

Also see the relevant leftybooru tag
https://lefty.pictures/post/list/debunk/1
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21 posts omitted.

>>2547155
As far as the Plekhanov piece goes, per Tony Cliff:
>Exposed the main fallacies of the Populists and counterposed to their ideas the principles of Marxism. The importance of its new ideas prompted Lenin to compare this pamphet with the Communist Manifesto for its effect on the Russian working class movement".
https://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1957/01/plekhanov.htm

Also, fun fact, a miss-attributed popular Lenin quote originates from Plekhanov's text
>For without revolutionary theory there is no revolutionary movement in the true sense of the word.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1883/struggle/chap3.htm



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After way too much time, the https://leftypol.org/search.php is finally back!
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A thread focused on discussing the parasocial relationships cultivated by the Almighty Algorithm to generate profit off of our atomization and society's commodification of petty internet drama.
Brace through the hyper-real lacanian void together!

Reminder That None of This Is Real!
ɢʀᴀʙ ᴀ ᴘᴀɪʀ ᴏꜰ sᴘᴇᴄᴛᴀᴄʟᴇs

—————————————————–

CORE THEORY
>The Society of the Spectacle (1967) by Guy Debord
📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/debord/society.htm
📺 • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blWjssVoUQ

<The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction (1936) by Walter Benjamin

📖 • https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm
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>>2546973
Briana wu is a transoid?!?!?!?!

Wouldn’t a true tradwife be prohibited from browsing the web at all?

>>2547207
tradwives aren't what you think
chances are you are 80% of a tradwife yourself

>>2547209
Since I’m on the grind, how do I get to 100%?

>>2547212
become a trccn



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As a Venezuelan,i want to say that you don't understand who devil Maduro is and if he will continue ruling this country i will live in a shithole like Cuba. Our,people of Venezuela's desire is freedom and president Donald Trump will give it to us. We will live in a democracy no matter how much Maduro fights with us. Venezuela will be a part of free and white world.

>free and white
Sure buddy, now get in the van



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What's the best way to convince anarchists that power and hierarchy aren't inherently bad?

Anarkids act like they understand theory and sociology better than Marxists do. They love getting on their moral high horse by calling everything "oppression". Yet when you actually pick apart their arguments you'll see that they're full of hot air 95% of the time. They talk a good deal about intersectionality and anti-oppression, but when pressed on how to abolish those oppressive structures in society they have no clue.

Marxism, OTOH, is scientific. We understand that political power is necessary to reshape society. We also understand that hierarchies need to exist until we reach the stage of communism, and even then you will still see things like hierarchies of intelligence, talent, beauty, strength, and so on that can't simply be abolished through idealist methods.

But how do you explain this without looking like you're making apologia for oppression? I've tried the Hegelian way of simply saying "the real is rational" but that doesn't get through anarkids' heads very well.
303 posts and 39 image replies omitted.

>>2547181
I'm not defending ML in particular (democratic centralism is especially flawed principle) but the use of state power to organize workers.
Hierarchical states have been the dominate organizational form of humanity since agricultural revolution. So why do you seem to believe the state form of organization will suddenly stop working past the 20th century? It certainly has stopped for the first quarter.

>>2547203
I'm not an anarchist, I just thought you were an ML

>>2547165
True dat comrade

>>2547169
Big talk about failure and sucking from someone who's line has done less than nothing to advance the cause of the working class.

>>2547171
I wholeheartedly reject your notions of failure, considering you have no alternative of success to present.

>>2547176
>Marxism-Leninism has objectively done better than any other leftist tendency at organizing the working class
It has literally only ever succeeded in obtaining power in countries with a microscopic proletarian population and majority (vast majority) peasant population; it has been an utter failure in every society where the majority are actual proletarians

Probably because its only historical accomplishments amount to national revolutions and industrial modernization in countries passed over in the first two waves of bourgeois revolutions
>Doesn't mean it's 100% correct but it's historical success is a clear sign that there were many aspects the helped the most obvious is having a state to actually organize workers.
All states organize workers to begin with, I think you mean “regiment and direct” workers, like uhhh yea any other state
Maybe that lack of worker power and the non-existence of transition out of the relations of capital are why not a single worker (all of whom were systematically kept out of power as a class in each ML national state; after all their mission was the non-communist objective of producing said proletariat) lifted so much as a finger to save so-called socialism when the stalinist bureaucracies saw more to gain by ending the protectionist fiction that they were not already integrated into global capitalist relations

How much they “succeeded” is irrelevant when MLs learnt nothing, cannot comprehend that they failed, and are sentimentalists hoping to reproduce those exact failures, believing, as they do, that remedial opportunist actions amount to the “revolutionary line” in themselves; at which point the ML usually turns into a typical liberal and effectively claims that socialism is impossible therefore social democracy is the trve socialism
>Anarchism is complete dead end on the other hand
Have you noticed that all MLs are capable of is pointing to other failures? What makes you different from an anarchist other than that you are cynical and they are not, my man? Maybe your problem is that you are exactly the sort of living farce Marx mocked, needing to look to the past to try justifying (to liberals and also yourself as a liberal) the existence and emergence of a hitherto never-before exPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2547208
>Less than nothing to advance the cause of the working class
Except socialist and labor politics were effectively destroyed on a global scale following the actions of the Soviet bloc and its allies?

Do MLs actively abuse drugs to inhabit the fantasy world where the pre-1989 20th Century never ended and Fukuyamist schizophrenia didn’t reign supreme for over thirty years?



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I don't like the mainstream leftist agenda, but the MAGA unters have conquered the internet with their amorality and malice, and now it's a shithole where everyone talks only about trans and migrants. And they truly believe that they are fighting against the jooz (name Trump nationality) and for the white christian race (oldest goyslop from the nazicucks). There's no counterforce against them, there was only the poljak, and he ultimately led them to victory. What should we do?
13 posts and 2 image replies omitted.

>>2543949
<more female drone operators
>WTF is this?
A drone operator who is a woman. So instead of children in Yemen getting bombed by a male drone operator they get bombed by one piloted by a woman. How progressive!

>>2546654
Aren't drones all AI now so they can kill indescriminately and just blame the training data? I'm surprised drone operator is still a job

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>>2545483
What do you propose? Raid Something Awful forums?

>>2546745
that domino meme where smaller dominoes tip over increasingly larger ones and the first one is lowtax deciding to charge ten bucks for registering on SA

>>2547190
I remember a meme like that but the starting point was "Something Awful banning hentai."



 

🗽 UNITED STATES POLITICS 🦅

<SNAP into a Porky Edition


Thread for hellish discussion of the Dying Burger Reich: Things are going to continue to happen in the stupidest ways possible that no one really takes seriously, where every single person compulsively reacts with either cynical grifting or useless panic and appealing to a political system of liberal democracy that is entirely dead and irrelevant. things will continue to get gradually worse, more people will lose their jobs and homes, the most destitute and marginalized will be oppressed by state-backed domestic terrorism, but the decay will simply continue and everyone who isn't actively being imprisoned and forced into slavery or outright exterminated will simply ignore it and maintain a cognitive dissonance of believing a civil war is happening while living their lives in a mostly normal fashion. The death of the United States will be slow, painful, and insufferably annoying and stupid. 🏈 💵
Death to the scourge of the earth, the destroyer of nations, the father of fascism, the enabler of ethnostates, the treatlerite tyrant, the protector of pedophiles, the exporter of ecocide, the captain of capitalism, the king of coups, the sultan of sanctions, the emir of the embargo, the autocrat of austerity, the doge of deregulation, the baron of busting unions, the prince of privatization, the lord of loan sharks, the patron-saint of proxy wars, the sponsor of settlers, the guarantor of genocides, the invader of islands, the Divided $nakkkes of Amerikkka™ 🌭 🍔

🛠️ Strike Tracker ⚒️
https://striketracker.ilr.cornell.edu/

🇺🇸 Deeds of the Burger Reich 🇺🇸
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

📺 Glowie News 📺
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>>2546987
MLoids don't read marxism as 20th century authoritarian developmentalism challenge (impossible)

>>2547200
yeah marxism is a hippie orgy in Goa

>>2547202
>Le other random retarded non-Marxist outlook because I can’t defend my own retarded non-Marxist outlook
The purpose of Marxism isn’t to establish industry for agrarian shitholes, sorry not sorry

Nta

>>2546987
POV: Out of context Lenin quote to justify my fascination with thirdoid capitalism

>>2547206
You don't know a damn thing about Lenin



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What are the implications of research regularly showing that right-wingers are generally
a) less educated
b) disinclined to reading
c) low in traits like agreeableness and openness
d) lower in cultural capital and status. (though harder to show in a neat chart, it links to b. most readers will know what i mean if i just say they're uncool.)

and the frankly obvious-and-growing divide of political behavior by intelligence throughout the west, with better educated people voting for left/liberal parties and less educated people voting for nationalists and reactionaries.
in this sense, and only this sense, are the right correct to identify the left with liberals. both leftists and liberals are generally educated, enjoy reading, and high agreeableness/openness, the opposite of rightists.

what are the implications as relate to the idea that right-wing fake news and rage-bait are demand lead, with low-openness, low-agreeableness, poorly educated non-readers prefering to watch nonsense not because they're manipulated into it by outside forces, but because this is just what they like

what are the implications for left-wing organizing strategy, which tends to resist trying to appeal directly to the interests of educated knowledge workers (or, indeed, young proletarianized female service workers with degrees) because of the aesthetic pull of historical industrial mass-movements?

what are the implications in the longer run, given that higher education enrolment levels have generally been rising over time, such that more than 50% of British young people now go into further education by age 30? what are the implications of this trend reversing, as is apparently happening in the US?

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>>2546584
I mean the disagreement is more often than not between the high openeness leftists and low openess /pol/ converts.

>>2546215
>what are the implications for left-wing organizing strategy, which tends to resist trying to appeal directly to the interests of educated knowledge workers (or, indeed, young proletarianized female service workers with degrees) because of the aesthetic pull of historical industrial mass-movements?
I dunno. I think leftists can get in a bad habit of putting theory over people, so when people don't match the theory, it's the people who are wrong. People can get things wrong or make bad decisions, but don't talk down to people or treat people like they're stupid. Don't lie to them either, and don't pander to the prejudices that people have. Don't exploit people.

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>>2547152
youre making a mistake by trying to rationalise the irrational. leftists generally consider bad words (blasphemy) worse than bad actions. this is because of coding and status, not physical or mental safety.
>>2547157
yes, marx defines communists as the elite members of proletarian parties (internationalists) and lenin understands the vanguard as an intellectual elite.
>>2546215
right-wingers which have come to the same conclusion are curtis yarvin, richard spencer, BAP, nick fuentes, richard hanania and neema parvini, who have all made gambits to the left, since they find the human capital of the right an unworthy investment. as yarvin says, "everyone is reactionary in their own field of expertise" and so he basically puts his faith in competency and markets, which (as per his previous comments) "swim left", despite many climbers seeking entryism into institutions, facilitating incompetent managerial structures (e.g. "cthulhu"). as it stands, there is "elite overproduction" (university graduates) which endangers competence in this way, since a population becomes over-qualified while simultaneously being inexperienced. high I.Q. individuals are typically specialists, and so a society of nerds is a dysfunctional society. potential "proletarianisation" marx even discusses in the manifesto, where he sees that competition causes the educated bourgeois to descend in the ranks, thus bringing illumination to the working class in the process. so, elite education is different from having elite skill. the more educated i become, the more useless i become.

richard spencer has made more interesting comments, that elitism itself can be dulling for a society, since it just makes everyone "asian" (e.g. nick land on "the I.Q. shredder"), and so you need bio-diversity to make things interesting, rather than simply gentile and efficient. he has said for example that affirmative action is good, not because it levels the playing field out of pity, but because "diversity is our strength" in analogical terms. you'll notice for example that societies with clustered I.Q.s like in scandanavia, there is the poverty of mediocrity, while in wider I.Q. fiPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>2547173
What a nonsensical babble.

>>2547184
>t. low-status



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Previous thread: >>2298757

Links:

Previous Thread Archives
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Thread 3 https://archive.ph/GZj20

Youtube Playlists
Anwar Shaikh - Historical Foundations of Political Economy
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTMFx0t8kDzc72vtNWeTP05x6WYiDgEx7
Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict and Crises
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Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism
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>>2546400
>youre literally describing a class structure
no they are both workers. differences in compensation dont change relations to production

>>2546400
>so the equilibrium is still a price, right?
specifically it is a price that best reflects cost of production, i.e. labor inputs, whether that labor is indirect labor (i.e. the labor used to procure raw materials, make means of production, etc.) or direct labor (i.e. labor used to directly produced the commodity)
>why? there are different rates of supply.
If supply and demand are in equilibrium they no longer explain anything. Supply and demand only explain deviation of a price from the cost of production, i.e. labor inputs, whether that labor is indirect labor (i.e. the labor used to procure raw materials, make means of production, etc.) or direct labor (i.e. labor used to directly produced the commodity)

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chat is this tru?

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>>2546764
>no they are both workers
and a king just occupies a different position within the division of labour of the workforce… he's paid more because he has to take on more "responsibility".
>differences in compensation
why would a pencil-pusher be paid more than a typical prole unless they are rigging the system in their favour? plato had the perfect solution, which is to lower the salary of officials to the minimum wage permitted. only this can secure justice, since it separates power from income.
>>2546946
>it is a price that best reflects cost of production
right, so what you call "value" is still just a price.
>If supply and demand are in equilibrium they no longer explain anything
they explain demand equating with supply.
>Supply and demand only explain deviation of a price from the cost of production
the "cost of production" is still a price reflected by a balance in supply and demand, as you have admitted.
>>2547150
yes. without welfare, the market would "correct" itself to only appeal to effective consumers, which would be a lower sample, thus raising prices by diminished production. you would necessarily increase crime while increasing prices, which is a bad combination. it can seem like ransom, but these are what make the public complacent to the current order (e.g. bread and circus). you can read unemployment and benefits statistics in the UK here: >>2545190

marxeuhhhh made-uhhh a critique-euhhhh of political euhhh economy euhhhhh and you're engaging in politikeuuuuhlll economy-uhhhhh



 

What the fuck did they do to this guy ? Remember when his books used to be interesting ? When he was saying something instead of nothing? How the fuck do you lose that many autism score points so fast?? His books just read like pulp fiction sci fi with racism and fascism mixed in.
1 post omitted.

>>2547136
>What the fuck did they do to this guy ?
meth? thats the popular answer. the real reason is that hes an idiot who thinks heat death means life is meaningless so we should build an ai to end the universe because entropy doesn't care about your feelings

He stopped doing drugs

He started doing harder drugs, sadly.

When will the Deleuzians come back to take what is theirs?

he's referring to the ethnic category of "asian" in the UK, which indeed is not an ethnicity, but is a continent.



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