No.1842262
Just seems like authors getting bored with what they've made so far and expanding upon it so there's more to work with.
Though, I do find authors leaning toward making the priorly flat bad guys revolutionaries more often than they make the priorly flat good guys revolutionaries. Usually I think they're trying to humanize them, but perhaps there's liberalism there.
No.1842283
A murderous antagonist with agreeable opinions is more compelling to the average normie than a villain who just does it for da evulz. Whatever. Pop culture thread.
No.1842292
The fact that so many people notice the trend of taking antagonists with reasonable seeming revolutionary ideas but then making them act comically evil for no reason kind of indicates this isn't a very effective propaganda tool.
No.1842297
>>1842292propaganda will never be stronger than material reality
No.1842372
>>1842292maybe 1/10 'culture critics' on twitter notice but 9/10 probably will just accept the framing unthinkingly
No.1842380
Liberal ideology surfacing in media really
No.1842410
On the reverse what about portraying business men as the hero.
A funny one is how batman is a capitalist swine going out and beating up lower class criminals. But iron man is even worse, i think stan lee said he wanted to create a hero who left wingers would hate and make them like him. Iron man is not only a capitalist but he makes money off war.
No.1842785
>>1842410>Ummm akshually batman spent all his money to improve gotham and uhh he only invests in good things and uhhh gotham is also cursed to be forever a shithole uhhBatman is fascist/billioner who loves beating up poor people, makes comic fans absolutely seethe with anger. It’s such a popular criticism of the character that the comic books come up with bullshit reasons why he is good actually and why his programs to improve gotham don’t work. In the end it’s all because batman can never end, his story can never come to a finish and gotham can never truly imrpove or there won’t be anymore batman comics to produce.
>>1842245They want to make the setting deeper and keep on mass producing the toys and comic books. So they added superficial “depth” to the characters and the story.
No.1842786
>What are your thoughts on portraying inherently evil, simple, fictional characters as revolutionarieBased
Making Megatron his people's Spartacus Gigabased
For
>>1842785 No.1842787
>>1842737Is this another means to program society into docility?
>Yes, you are correct in pointing out this issue and demanding change>BUT NOT THIS WAY!>Ah yes, complain within the impotent confines of our system. Just voot for the right candidate next time No.1842791
>>1842787It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just liberals being liberal. They think character with a point but who get too “violent” is good character writing. They genuinely believe that you should do activism within the confines of the so called “democratic” system. Look at the comments under post about israe and palestine on reddit or tiktok, there will be libs bitching and moaning about violence while at the same time masturbating to it when it’s done by the “good” and “democratic” guys.
No.1842797
>>1842791I don't care why they think they do it as long as they do it
No.1842851
Anyways decepticons have always been cooler then the autobots. Soundwave for the WIN!
No.1842894
>>1842880Worst movie in the trilogy by a mile. The whole trilogy is an ultimately liberal work, but the first two still had interesting things to say. The third one is just a half-assed mess that you can tell Nolan didn't really wanna make
No.1842904
>>1842894It has aged horribly in both its themes and effects. It's the least talked about of any superhero series, and the only people who even think about it are bane plane scene shitposters
No.1842911
>>1842880>>1842894It was literally made in reaction to the OWS movement.
No.1842921
>>1842857Are you really going to ignore all the edgy/"""deconstructed""" bullshit that's plaguing the medium for well over a decade?
No.1842924
>>1842920
I mean Oppenheimer still has its mandatory anticommunist jabs. It's kinda like the Oingo Boingo guy going from anticommmunist conservative to screeching libtard that dedicated a whole album against Trump.
No.1842926
>>1842904>It's the least talked about of any superhero seriesI mean, yeah, because it ended, while others keep going. The second movie (the one with the joker) has basically secured its place in the broader cultural memory, but I'd agree the other two have largely faded
>>1842911Nolan's evolution from "making an anti-OWS" movie with TDKR to basically making a movie about the depravity of the American state with Oppenheimer has been truly weird to behold. The fuck happened to that guy in the space of a decade
>>1842921I always roll my eyes at this take. The peak of "edgy" genre deconstruction was the 90s/00s, it faded in the 10s in favor of the more squeecore-style shit. The stuff that's still doing it gets put on blast and overexposed precisely because it's kind of a novelty for reviving/continuing it
No.1842931
>>1842926 (me)
Also, I do wish fans of genre fiction would understand that "playing a genre serious/straight" and "deconstruction" are not necessarily always the same thing. Just as a popular example MCU Civil War is a cape movie that tonally takes itself fairly seriously and it's far, far, *far* from a deconstruction
No.1842933
>>1842931I don't even think deconstruction is even a thing beyond TV Tropes users being complete fucking pseuds who haven't even read Derrida. It's a meaningless term that can be applied to almost anything.
No.1842943
>>1842933Yeah, basically this.
People think "deconstruction" is a catch-all for "any work of fiction that's in some sort of active meta dialogue with its own genre." Like for example you see weebs go "Evangelion is a mecha deconstruction" - well, okay, sure, it is certainly in dialogue with its own genre and does things that weren't common at the time in mainstream animation, such as the bizarre experimental interludes or the increasingly fourth-wall-breaking narrative that feels like a postmodern conspiracy novel. But the specific plot elements that people claim are "deconstructive" were already done long before it came out - hell,
Mobile Suit Gundam already did the "your YA protag would actually be a traumatized child soldier and kind of a little shit" thing all the way back in 1979
Point is fandom folks need to read more nonfiction
No.1843374
>>1842245Narrative fiction should be banned
No.1843520
>>1842245>good robots who would turn into fire trucks, ambulances, and taxis versus evil robots who turned into fighter jets and tanksoriginally they weren't war-based bots, they were basically a repair so the idea is all their weapons and transformations were tool based. according to the Sunbow G1 toyline the autobots were the civilian class and the Decepticons were military
No.1843562
>>1842894Honestly with the appeal to Caesarism in the second movie I'd say it was more of a Fascist work.
That said, to address the point that
>>1842245 is making, I think a lot of writers want to make
interesting or compelling villains, but the problem is they might not feel capable of writing a character with personal charisma. So instead they go for charismatic motivations and portray them as "taking things too far" which ends up ticking off a lot of people.
There's a difference between someone with a compelling motive and someone who's personally compelling. I think Zenos from FFXIV might be personally the best example of this because his motivation is almost comically evil/insane: he's bored and he wants to have a fun fight at the end of the world. However his lines are written well enough and his voice actor provides enough gravitas that by the end of the expansion this outright sociopath quickly becomes one of your favorite characters.
But like I said, a lot of writers may feel unable to actually write someone who's personally compelling, so they give him a compelling cause while have him killing babies.
That aside, I'd also say that the worst thing Bioshock Infinite did is make Daisy Fitzroy try to kill a kid, then walked it back when people whined loud enough. It should have committed and in fact doubled down on it imo.
No.1843619
>>1842245What about taking a real-life person who was not really revolutionary and making him a being of pure evil? Oda Nobunaga seems to be the best example
Many stories and portrayals depict Oda Nobunaga as a villain or demon bent on the conquest of Japan too
He appears frequently within fiction and continues to be portrayed in many other anime, manga, video games, and cinematic films. Many depictions show him as villainous or even demonic in nature, though some portray him in a more positive light.
the novel and anime series Yōtōden portrays Nobunaga as a literal demon in addition to a power-mad warlord
Nobunaga is portrayed as evil, villainous, bloodthirsty, and/or demonic in many video games such as Ninja Master's, Sengoku, Maplestory, Inindo: Way of the Ninja and Atlantica Online, and the video game series Onimusha, Samurai Warriors, Sengoku Basara (and its anime adaptation) and Soulcalibur.
prepare for cringe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29gpogX3yy8and make it double
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixWP_B7wZpE No.1843764
>>1842921The problem isn't "edgy deconstruction" itself which can gave a genre story an interesting twist. The problem is edgy deconstruction for it's own sake that doesn't work with the larger story.
Also, beyond rain's star wars I can't think of any other mainstream movie where that happens.
>>1843562>the worst thing Bioshock Infinite did is make Daisy Fitzroy try to kill a kid, then walked it back when people whined loud enough. What's also bullshit is when main characters never make hard choices because the audience's self-insert, waifu or husbando might look bad.
No.1843882
>>1842926>making a movie about the depravity of the American state with Oppenheimer has been truly weird to behold. The fuck happened to that guy in the space of a decadeNothing? He's a libshit.
>erased Oppenheimer being a commie>shows him dunking on those stupid Western commies>wow, JFK! *soypog* Unique IPs: 23