>>1857147Tiktok is only radical because its where young people are. Any short form video platform would have done the same. If tiktok is any different from western apps it would just be that it lacks the algorithimic censorship (at least in the non china version). Pro palestine is just the actual opinion of zoomers.
>>1857154I think that’s correct, but part of it is that TikTok, at least the non-Chinese version, just isn’t as easily glowed as Wikipedia, Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, etc.
I wonder if it is something unique to tiktok or this is just how young proles use social media now. I suppose having being based outside a five eyes country might be why but iirc there alr some ex-NATO ppl employed by tiktok so who knows. I think porkie really does resent how the internet has made mass media communication nearly impossible to control.
>>1857158That’s the thing, TikTok, or Byte Dance, have actually tried giving the glowies what they want, they gave them backdoor access, put their servers in Texas, actually do try their best to censor leftists, anti-imperialists, and pro-Palestine users; I think it’s own inherent design just makes it ridiculously easy for leftists to connect with other leftists and spread their message to like-minded people while at the same time censors have to continually chase after them.
>>1857147The lumpen revolution in two more weeks
>>1857154This. The new generation is getting more radicalized and left leaning. If Tik-Tok dies they just move to another app.
Western BigTech = BAD
Chinese BigTech = GOOD
I am very smart.
>>1857156It's both less censored but crucially it's more "democratic", so to speak, than other apps. You get shown small creators way more than in other apps. If you do a video on YouTube or you make an Instagram page, nobody is going to see your content.
Meanwhile on tiktok everyone can have their few seconds of fame way more easily.
Proprietary garbage
True revolutionaries use IRC
>>1857174ant tiktok is just popular because they found a local maximum in terms of optimizing engagement. if they disappear they will just be replaced with some other shortform video app, which is what youtube shorts and instagram reels are trying to do.
>>1857196Except Glowtube Shorts and Glowgram Reels will ban any pro-Palestine content and feed you AI made slop (all that’s on that shithole YT Shorts is AI diarrhea) telling you uphold Israel, vote Biden/Trump to stop all the Muslims, and Socialism is the Devil
If tiktok got rid of the autoplay bullshit I would use it, but frankly its just pure overstim bullshit, you cant find anything you're actually looking for, and it feeds you the dumbest fucking who cares shit ever. Like how the fuck do I make it give me shit I actually give a fuck about and not retarded attention whores badly twerking and lipsynching to the most brainrot "music" ever?
>make something that recommends easy to make content/books/text/videos relevant to your interests from your peers to you
>It becomes massively popular with the proles
>It immediately begins to spread communist ideals
>The app gets changed to only show regime safe videos
>This inevitably leads to it pumping interesting corporate slop
>People stop enjoying and using the thing
>make something that recommends easy to make content/books/text/videos relevant to your interests from your peers to you
I guess this was the secret formula all along.
>>1857208You must not have used it in a while. There is longer form content now and the recommendations pretty quickly give you what you like
>>1857208>TikTok<Autoplay<<Doesn’t show you things you want to seeTell me you get all your facts from reddit without telling me you get all your facts from reddit
>>1857224>>1857217I literally just made an account a couple months ago and tried to figure out how to use it because I was going to go on a warpath against the retarded homesteader influencers, I tried favoriting and following a bunch of shit I liked but I was still getting fed absolute earrape slop. Also I FUCKING HATE autoplay and if I cant disable it on a site I literally dont use that site.
>>1857226But TikTok doesn’t have autoplay?
You literally need to scroll to see another video
I wish it had autoplay
i find something philosophically offputting about having an algorithm show me content it thinks i will like, rather than digging for that content myself on a whim.
(nothing good can come of expressing this here, and yet i do.)
>>1857227But when you scroll the videos start playing automatically, thats autoplay. Its insufferable beyond belief.
>>1857226Also my experience of it was that I started getting communist content the day I made an account and just watched like 5 vids about socialism
>>1857171it's less the fact that it's a chinese app and more the fact that it's
not subject to western censorship. So it's a sort of inverted truth.
>>1857183Depends on the context. If you're a political dissident in the West, you use eastern tech to avoid censorship. If you're a political dissident in the East, you use western tech to avoid censorship. You need resources from outside the house.
>>1857229That's not autoplay you mouth breather. It'd be autoplay if it played the next video on queue automatically. Were you looking for an app where all you do is scroll video thumbnails?
>>1857241Yeah, having videos automatically start playing is fucking insufferable. Why would you want to scroll down and have some retard start immediately shrieking at you?
>>1857242shorts are even more useless with ads, cookies and JS blocked - its just the same few ones on repeat.
>>1857203a lot of the content on my YT shorts feed is pro-palestine stuff, but I'm subscribed to channels like MEE that cover it
>>1857158Yes. Video format is incredibly difficult to sift through and analyze. Unlike text which is trivial
>>1857154Reels has young people and it’s kind of conservative. Has a sort of Ned Flanders meets Smithers vibe.
>>1857251Why the fuck would a scroll app show you still thumbnails? That’s literally what youtube is for?
>>1857147>America trying to ban TT because Zoomers would rather side with Palestine and socialism and tell celebs to kick rocks over the military’s attempts to shill propaganda They were trying to steal it before, this was just a good excuse. Stop being naive.
>>1857265I actually did know that, though I do think one of the major reasons they wanted to steal it is to glow it to hell and back
I think there’s many different reasons and an intersection of factions that either want to own it or ban it coming together to make an uber bill for it to be sold off or banned
>>1857227Something triggered autoplay in the app for me once and it was amazing but incredibly overstimulating. It would instantly blow out your dopamine receptors.
>>1857264Yeah I pretty much just want it to be youtube because baseline youtube is basically the ultimate format for hosting video.
>It seems like tech porkies in Singapore accidentally made an app
Singapore didn't make it. It was made in China and they changed their HQ to Singapore, I guess to try to prevent American screeching about it being Chinese
>>1857236>If you're a political dissident in the East, you use western tech to avoid censorship.Doesn't happen, because all oppressive regimes in the world are Western-aligned.
>>1857235>not subject to western censorshipThat's why they want to ban it. They want to control it.
>>1857229Yea, and the fucking sound is off. Though facebook does the same thing.
>>1857325Sort of, but they care a lot less about what news we see than about our ability to organize material actions and their ability to see and stop them before they become too contagious.
>>1857334And this is why they want TikTok to go away, it’s somehow just very easy to promote mass organized actions there, and there’s a tendency for protests to go extremely viral
>>1857336I would disagree. Having committed to total visibility as a national project (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Information_Awareness), they would rather have the visibility than the silence.
>It seems like tech porkies in Singapore accidentally made an app that allows for proles to rapidly communicate and popularize radical ideas, campaign for mass movements, coordinate boycotts and protests, it really is something, like yet another mOdErN pRiNtinG pReSs
For what it's worth, that was the vision of the worldwide web, at least in an information-freedom sense. Tech hippies had higher hopes than reality, utopian fantasies and all, but ultimately it has been revolutionary as much as it has been subverted by capitalists.
>>1857187>It's both less censored but crucially it's more "democratic", so to speak, than other apps. You get shown small creators way more than in other apps. If you do a video on YouTube or you make an Instagram page, nobody is going to see your content. which is exactly what zoomers seethe about too which is their moment of viral doesn't capapult them to social media stardom like previous generations of youtubers/viners etc. Its just their 15 minutes of fame and thats it.
>>1857174>>1857196>>1857203Despite the partial success of Mastodon and Lemmy, I have little faith in young people caring enough to find censorship-resistant platforms. People, even in quieter rings of the internet like this site, rarely stray out of what they know and what is convenient.
$10 says they just go straight to insta/youtube/etc. and get chill'd with censorship instead of straying into the quieter anti-capitalist alternatives
>>1857598"Decentralized" platforms come with almost all the flaws of mainstream platforms but without the large number of users so it's no wonder most people who even bothered trying them out end up leaving anyway.
>>1857242>that's all your feed is showing you. Personally when I'm on VPN and I go on youtube shorts, all I see is softcore fetish stuff and INFLOOENCERINOS clout chasing by pretending to be doing stuff organicallyI use invidious and the homepage is all tech e-celebs doing soyfaces, including the crypto douches who fill their thumbnails with soyjacks.
Maybe it will change with a different instance, but I also suspect it's YouTube thinking 'this IP looks at tech a lot, these are popular tech vids!'
>vidi dont want to live on this planet anymore
>>1857605>"Decentralized" platforms come with almost all the flaws of mainstream platformsThis is inherently false.
They tend to have underdevelopment problems, and decentralization causes some problems in exchange for those it avoids, but to say they have almost all the same flaws is just surprising coming from an anti-capitalist. Explain yourself.
>>1857598as a fundamental matter of signal and noise, it is often better to work around censorship on (say) youtube than it is to re-host elsewhere. more people will find your content on youtube - even if it is taken down every 6 months - than will find it in 10 years on one of the youtube alternatives nobody uses.
>>1857613Allow me to be pedantic: I'm a communist but I only push for the use of these because I'm a schizo scared of datamining and not because I believe what website people use has anything to do with the proletarian movement.
But anyway, most people on decentralized platforms carry over the same culture they learned from spending time on centralized ones. I guess I was being hyperbolic, but they do also come with its own major issues (main ones to me are: having to deal with an instance's jannies and their power-trips, the whole platform being so small that if you're into niche stuff you'll barely find anyone as opposed to the big platforms) that I completely disagree that one is inherently better than the other.
>>1857615Yes, at the end of the day you need to get eyes on the content, although it's also great when you get the critical mass to be able to pull people across into a new community whenever YouTube press down harder.
>>1857625>because I'm a schizo scared of dataminingAh, a Glowonymous of culture, I see.
>But anyway, most people on decentralized platforms carry over the same culture they learned from spending time on centralized ones. I guess I was being hyperbolic, but they do also come with its own major issues (main ones to me are: having to deal with an instance's jannies and their power-trips, the whole platform being so small that if you're into niche stuff you'll barely find anyone as opposed to the big platforms) that I completely disagree that one is inherently better than the other.Thanks for clarifying, and I agree with those points, although with a caveat for the small platform point - federation is theoretically able to mitigate that, allowing a small niche instance of a dozen to integrate into a wider cloud of literally millions. I've drifted away from the Fediverse platforms due to other stuff being more important to me so I can't say if it's succeeded in that goal. Shitty instance leadership (as you mentioned) does complicate that goal.
most socialist organizing in my third world country happens on fucking facebook and instagram, who cares
>>1857647Odd request. My client wishes to relay they they have declined this instruction.
>>1857158I see plenty of antizionist content in ig though the app does have integrated censorship of political content you have to manually disable
once you start interacting with content the algorythm cant be stopped and its own efficiency is turned against its creators
>>1857158>>1857663yeah lol the idea that this is exclusive to tiktok is nuts to me. maybe
>>1857183 is right
it’s because the algorithm actually helps people find other people of similar beliefs and it’s a bit harder to bot opinion farm.
>>1857147>Even Prolekult (god tier marxist filmmaker) uses TikTok Can someone explain why everyone loves that guy? I watched a few videos ages ago and they were all about how Britain was going to enter a hot war with Russia (which never happened).
>>1857762I don't like him either, seems to just drone on over stock footage, but more left voices is always good
>>1857174>The new generation is getting more radicalizedPeople say the same thing every fucking decade. Then these "young radicals" inherit their parents' reserves and suddenly stop any "revolutionary" activity to the surprise of nobody who's marxist.
>>1857762It's like steampunkians but redder
>>1857765>Then these "young radicals" inherit their parents' reserves>parents' reserves<Well, son, it's time we had a little talk about something called "material conditions"… the good news is you'll never have to worry about me disinheriting you.
>>1857765the millennials haven't gotten more right wing as they get older. stfu.
>>1857776Because the economy is in the gutter. Can we please stop treating political consciousness as something that happens when you're good enough of a person and not subjected to your class position?
>>1857777yes obviously material conditions but propaganda/false consciousness also matters, people under 40ish have experienced a much different ideological life experience than boomers which does actually affect their political views
>>1857776i know we arent only communists here but the concept of left and right is so meaningless to me. ignoring that polls dont represent anything tangible in the first place, does "having leftist views" or even "being leftist" even translate into actual proletarian cohesion and organizing? i would say no
>>1857786thats their point i think. as people get older they CAN accumulate or inherit more resources and move up the social ladder. obv affected by the social mobility (ability to become petit-bourgeois) of the country but thats the reason many people who called themselves "leftists" end up becoming "right-wing" or "conservative" or whatever the fuck as the years go on
haz-tier take
tiktok is just another brain cancer app like snapchat. Its not a "revolutionary" form at all. And tiktok should be banned anyway for being a contributor to attention deficits.
>>1857793>Its not a "revolutionary" form at all.Reaching the correct conclusion with the dumbest line of reasoning possible.
>>1857793May as well ban imageboards for contributing to attention deficits with constant shitposts
>>1857777> not subjected to your class position?t. The uber faggot promoting generational theory and claiming younger proles will not or cannot develop class consciousness because having a home is your class now
>>1857813>generational theoryWhat?
>younger proles will not or cannot develop class consciousness because having a home is your class nowIf someone is still living with their parents I'm having a hard time thinking they fit the definition of the reserveless proletariat whose existence hinges solely on wage labor as they have their parents to fall back on if they ever got fired, assuming they're even working in the first place. If they aren't working, how are they even going to join the proletarian movement?
Also the petit-bourgeois can obviously join the communist movement, but it's an exception, not the norm, and many times they're wreckers without even realizing it as they push for interclassist reforms thinking that's what communism is about. And once again,
defining class position is not a moral judgement.
>>1857815>If someone is still living with their parents I'm having a hard time thinking they fit the definition of the reserveless proletariat whose existence hinges solely on wage labor as they have their parents to fall back on if they ever got fired, assuming they're even working in the first place. If they aren't working, how are they even going to join the proletarian movement?Guess every culture where people live with extended family is impossible to form class consciousness then i.e. everywhere outside the west and even in the west only from the early 20th century until 2007 or so.
>>1857813>having a home is your class nowif anything that anon has it backward sinces its home ownership i.e. ownership of an appreciating asset which actually instills small property owner and petit bourgeois analogous consciousness in proles which is exactly what happened to white unionized blue collar workers in mid 20th century north america.
>>1857819An owned home isn't a reserve to fall back on?
>>1857821>>forgets alot of older people live with relatives.Isn't this done out of desperation with all parts sharing expenses?
>>1857823But that's exactly the point I'm making. Maybe I expressed myself incorrectly.
>>1857824>But that's exactly the point I'm making.well not really because you're acting like the parents asset is the adult childs asset which isn't true. Its just a private/familial form of charity. An adult child living at home with parents doesn't make them any more a homeowner than if they were living in a privately funded homeless shelter.
>>1857147>India banning because idk muh ChinaDoesn't India hold the record for fucking with the Internet and social media in case of public unrest? Or is that just Kashmir?
>>1857828You don’t understand, le true proletariat is necessarily steps from being homeless, but it can’t be homelessness because their parents kicked them out when they did something they disapproved of, or are simply homeless cuz homeless r stinky lumpens!
>t. Workerist aesthetics fag
>>1857828The proletariat is that class which completely sells its labor power to capital to survive, without owning any reserves which it could use to stay afloat in bad times. Without the immediate demand for their labor they are chucked out onto the streets.
I don't mean to argue with "but Marx said so!". It's just that the marxist definition of a proletarian makes complete sense to me in explaining the current state of the world.
>>1857831I don't know why you're getting so emotional over this.
>>1857831a lot and i mean a LOT of things have to go wrong in your life to end up homeless, and once you do you kinda just give up on life. homeless people are lumpen cuz theyre unable to be part of the worker movement, not as a judgement on their way of life but their inability to attack capital as one movement
>>1857840Working class parents who rent and happen to have spare room for their kid when they fail to launch.
>>1857844Are you trying to make a joke?
>>1857832>The proletariat is that class which completely sells its labor power to capital to survive, without owning any reserves which it could use to stay afloat in bad times. Without the immediate demand for their labor they are chucked out onto the streets.The idea that to be proletarian one has to experience some sort of absolute impoverishment is frankly more a Lassallean idea than Marxist one. The idea that wages are just the price of directly and immediately reproducing labor is again, a Lassallean notion which Marx already rejected in volume 1 in favor of merely a tendency for wages to fall that level, there are counter-veiling tendencies which even Ricardo wasn't daft enough to ignore, that was entirely Lassalle.
again, I don't think you understand. You are confusing literal homelessness with not being a homeowner which are not the same thing. The reason an adult child living at home is not a homeowner is because they don't actually own the home. What makes someone a proletarian is lack of non labor income derived of surplus value (in the case of the landlord, indirectly appropriated through exchange).
Imagine a hypothetical altruistic landlord that charged only $0.25 a month on rent for a room in a house. And a wage worker lived in a room rented by that landlord. That's essentially the same situation. The reason that doesn't happen with a normal landlord is because they don't care about their tenants, while a parent does. You wouldn't say a prole who had that deal wasn't "really proletarian".
What defines a prole isn't getting a good or bad deal on rent. It's deriving income from (underpaid) labor, as opposed to deriving income from appropriating surplus value.
>>1857847No, I'm showing the absurdity of "assets". Someone just judged someone proletarian or not based on whether the place their parents put them up during hard times is paid for through mortgage or rent. Flag waving bullshit, people need to either commit to abolishing the bourgeois order and transcending civilization, or just go drink cum and keep their stank outta the movement.
>>1857147I think text ai detection of dissidents is way more developed than people realize, glowies probably wordclouding us right now.
Tiktok has a large scale and data intensive content to analyze and break down into speech to text and them wordcloud for gommunism and [
*****]
>>1857295Slow down your orientalism there buddy.
>>1857998>>1857650>most socialist organizing in my third world country happens on fucking facebook and instagram, who careseat shit
>if you own your home you're actually bourgeois
Not this shit again
TikTok is technology which has arrived from the future, and N*ck might've been correct potentially quite in the end.
>can't censor people so easy on TT because we're visual creatures - banning a face hits different to banning wordswordswords
>can't monitor TT so easy because audio is harder to monitor than wordswordswords, or was harder
>can't control TT accounts as easy because it's not monetized so people don't care so much about their accounts or follower count
How difficult would it be to create a peer to peer uncensorable TT?
>>1858585the definition of proletarian is reserveless, is owning your house not a reserve now?
>>1860988What about family?
<My cousin has a sofa bed so now I'm bourgeois
>>1860988>the definition of proletarian is reserveless, is owning your house not a reserve now?I don't know if it's (present-day) useful to define the proletariat as reserveless, if full ownership of a house is considered a reserve - how does owning a house relate to the means of production. It's hardly capital which implies a petit-bourgeois relation. It's blurrier if that property is sufficient for industrial purposes, like farmland, but what meaningful effect does owning a house provide, beyond a one-off sale? (just like owning a car)
>>1861037The US public-private mortgage agency is dipping their toe into second mortgages now
>>1861050idk but I'm putting 10 on "conflating present-day asia with cyberpunk future technology because you can't yet digest that the West is not the cutting-edge any more", like with hong kong and neo-tokyo, and now with china
Where will Tikkers go to once their access is banned?
>>1861169china isn't making burgers dumber with tiktok but they should be
>>1857147>It seems like tech porkies in Singapore accidentally made an appmusically was initially china based
Russia stronk, gonna gas all the hohols and rape all the women and babies and farm animals, ha ha ha, you weak Western faggots can't stop us
Gayyy(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>1861169All of the above
>>1857215I think the winning formula is basically that algorithms place you in a totally unique 'community', which overlaps with other people's unique communities (like real life), and this makes it so that information can travel very quickly all around. It's anti-silo.
The downside is that there's too much content and you end up doing lots of sifting to find good stuff (or some days its a jackpot every time! engagement-maximizing algos are the worst), and that means creators need to implement strategies to get engagement quickly in the first second or so so that people don't scroll away. This biases for attractive people showing their face and telling you something you probably already agree with. This isn't good for anonymously (aka safely) propagandizing and educating people in depth. They're not there for brain-hurty, they're there for brain-relaxing.
>>1860927video hosting is best when centralized, since you ideally want the videos to be available all the time, and also they take up lots of space that would either bloat clients a huge amount or make there a de facto situation of centralization via power users who host large amounts of videos, just not absolute centralization. At that point, why not just a web 'community' of socialist video hosting servers (and I only say community because the idea of decentralization is good for resilience and diversity of opinion when it comes to niche/ideological hosting) and a shared client. Like just cut out the middle man and obfuscating attempts and accept that most people have 0 interest in putting any resources into hosting video, so it's only going to be up to, A) datamining companies, B) datamining governments, C) grifters and wealthy/techy rejects banned from other social media, D) hosting for illegal video, E) committed political interests that don't have access to mainstream channels of communication or believe they need their own independent infrastructure - i.e. mostly socialists. There's no reason at all to work with these other groups, so federation might as well be just by and for revolutionary projects. Like I guess if you made a client and defined a protocol for servers to interface, it would be open to anyone, but no reason to cater to all of those relatively reactionary or just odious groups.
I think tiktok is what it is though because it's so mainstream (and fast, and equipped with capital-intensive AI, and with many filters, AI tools, etc. which are both very capital-invested and also apparently easy for tech savvy people to create for themselves, making for a fun multi-class playground - all for free to the end user, who is the product)
>9eyes: wtf tiktok is murdering our narratives
>Australian PM: We may ban under 16s from using social media
Unique IPs: 43