the onus is always on the most advanced ranks of the proletariat. if you look outside and you see movements but no revolution, it's on you.
ppw only works in a country in which repressive forces cant reach the whole extent of its territory dum dum
dont try to do that in a developed capitalist country
Meds.
imagine wasting your life like that lole
>>1857911Imagine thinking a close to 100 year old military strategy is somekind of secret maoist holy path to winning everwhere when it has a 0% success rate outside 1930s China…
>3rd largest country on Earth
>48 partitioned mainland states
>huge areas of nothing
>armed general population
>large agricultural community
>giant wealth disparity
OP would be right if the people weren't completely brainwashed liberal consumers.
Appalachia is perfect for it.
>>1857924if the mass of commodities stops flowing..
>>1857935>Appalachia is perfect for it.Well then, you probably should have started building sets of combat and supply tunnel networks there three decades ago.
>>1857892You ought to read "Why is it That Red Power Can Exist in China?" and then ask yourself if the same conditions exist in the USA.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-1/mswv1_3.htm My answer is, PPW isn't applicable where imperialist power is strongest. There's a reason why Sison said the US communists should use the insurrectionist model of the bolsheviks.
>>1858042Insurrection won't work either, the only way out of the monoparty is through a military coup like the Carnation revolution
Voting is easier than insurrection and if you can't attract an electorate, arms are a pipe dream
I don’t see anyone out here doing PPW; often it seems like the people advocating it the loudest just want others to do it for them.
>>1857924Get real.
>technology advanced enough to detect guerrillas inside of its own territory, preventing armed groups from being able to regroup and establish base of operations>government is still relatively stable, no military coups and decent legitimacy>most powerful military in the entire world>barely any isolated rural towns, every single city is tightly interconnected and any disturbances can be traced and dealt with by local police forces immediately
>>1857892I HATE MAOISTS SO MUCH BRO WHY DO THEY HAVE TO BE SO STUPID
(petty sectarianism)
>>1857935>>1857924>>1857897but also, one really has to stop and think about what counts a "developed capitalist country." Amerika is not one because they deindustrialized and we have remote destitute areas that are mostly migrant workers. Read docrel.
>>1858042Yeah. I am honestly not of the opinion that PPW is universal. The concept of urban guerilla warfare and insurrection definitely makes more sense.
>>1858137If you don't see it, then you should probably be the one to do it. The onus is on you, as a communist.
>>1858139based
>>1858150???
>>1858155change it to a Mustafa Brigades headband and that's me!
>>1858150and btw, literally all of the most politically advanced comrades I have met were in fact some variation of MLM, or at least MLs sympathetic to MZT.
>>1858157well of course you will think that as a known retard
Any kind of serious violent revolutionary confrontation with the government requires the disintegration of much of the military's hold over the population as a precondition, or the widespread intervention of another government's military.
>>1858156>If you don't see it, then you should probably be the one to do it. The onus is on you, as a communist.But I'm not the one advocating people do PPW. In fact, I think that's a pretty good way to get shot.
My point is if you're gonna advocate something, lead by example. Don't just say "we should do PPW" followed up by "who wants to go first?"
>>1858167lmao, I'm just joking mang. I thought the implication was that I was gonna take it upon myself. I've got a bone to pick with the state in a big way, and they fuggin fear me.
>>1858164in ameriKKKa, the hold over the population is really the police, but they know that is changing or else they wouldn't be making cop city. they know what is to come.
>>1858162you're a known retard
Won't work in most first-world nations. It's still a pretty good tactic in third-world nations where the military is already overstretched like in the subcon or SEA.
>>1858212It actively failed in most of SEA
though
>>1858156Not American but Soledad Brother was a good book too.
>>1858258It's still going in Philippines and India. It failed in Sri Lanka but mostly because the LTTE didn't play its cards right.
>>1858258Tbh THO, I don't know much about SEA, but the conditions there seem right for PPW in the near future.
>>1858265Failed resoundingly in Thailand too.
>>1858195The military doesn't have to be in direct control.
I conclude that Joeseph Biden's impending renewal of term will spontaneously create the foundational conditions of People's War in America, if not set it off outrightly with extra force from the most forward and conscious of the vanguard of America's lower classes. I have the most profound and material class analysis backing this hypothesis, which can be found in the burger thread, to be expounded upon and proven further as contradiction develops.
<Where a government has come into power through some form of popular vote, fraudulent or not, and maintains at least an appearance of constitutional legality, the guerrilla outbreak cannot be promoted, since the possibilities of peaceful struggle have not yet been exhausted. Mr. Guevara explains exactly why January 6th insurrection failed: The rigged 2020 election was still constitutional in the eyes of the masses, thanks to the overwhelming strength of bourgeois ideology and the utter lack of proletarian consciousness. The eyes of the masses are much more open now for many reasons, chiefly because workers' conditions are worse and in great decline. 2024 will be too big to rig, but the profit motive will force the bourgeoisie to try, as it worked before.
People's War in America is only possible—and will be guaranteed—in the foreseeable future IF the masses can be made to understand the contradiction between them and the ruling Uniparty—bidenomics, imperialism, that the elections are rigged, etc.https://worldcrunch.com/opinion-analysis/chairman-trump-revisiting-what-the-donald-shares-with-maoI seek criticisms of my theory, and better theories or strategies of revolution in the imperial core.
>>1858224You may as well substitute "maoism" for revolution and stop pretending you aren't a glowie.
>>1858273>communism failedReported
>>1858148Idk man thus far guerilla warefare tactics have always have been effective against the US military. If there was an opportunity to organize in a moment of government weakness then…
>>1858334Nah, the only way burgerland is ever achieving socialism is a split within the military caused PTSD ridden vets and an insurrection. It's already becoming very obvious given how much people openly shit on le troooops. Try doing that in India, Pakistan, Thailand or any other thirdie shithole and you'll be thrown in jail.
>>1858334<Reportednew leftypol rules; this fags feelings.
>>1858286okay, and?? You do realize the american west has some very remote areas.
>>1858261real. also I figured, I'm just talking about america cause that is what I know
>>1858340exactly
>>1858343why would amerikkkan war vets ever do a socialist revolution? or how I guess. it's a volunteer military; they are literal mercenaries.
>>1857892bro there are literal actual maoist guerillas in the third world who straight up tell western maoists that a ppw in the first world will not work or help anyone and these western maoists will just fucking ignore them and talk about how the rural peasantry of nebraska is just waiting for 17-year old jason from a suburb in wisconsin to lead them in a guerilla war against the us government
>>1857892>ya'll motherfuckers say "it's too early for PPW, think about the optics!"No im saying protracted peoples war isnt a viable strategy in a non-peasant, highly urbanised situation.
>>1858638>okay, and?? You do realize the american west has some very remote areas.Protracted peoples war is based on the following circumstances that make it work:
>The economy is mostly decentralised, local communities of mostly peasants produce mostly for local needs.>The central authority is unable to effectively maintain a monopoly of violence and economic control in remote regions, which leads to a situation of local control by local landlords with their own private militias being the defacto stateThese two lead to protracted peoples war being possible. Mao set about to build a base area for the revolution, by going to remote areas far away from effective state control, and set about organizing the peasantry to aid the red army in establishing themselves as a socialist local government. Because the KMT was unable to effectively get there and maintain control from their own centres of power in the large cities, mao was able to become the defacto state of this region. In this region, the local character of production meant that this smallish region was able to provide most of the basic necessities to maintain the army at a base level. Arms and munitions were gained through smuggling from non-PPW party cells in the big cities, as well as raids on KMT forces.
If your situation does not have a situation of a defacto lack of central state power, and does not have a situation of primary local production, then a base area is impossible, and waging a protracted peoples war and surrounding the cities is impossible.
This means that in a modern urban are it is by definition already impossible, because it does not have local production. This also means it is not possible in the USA, because the USA has and actively uses its capacity to muster a large army to its most remote areas to keep it under control. The same goes for all of europe.
China had a situation of a defacto lack of a state. The entire country was ruled by warlord cliques and local landlord forces. Places like northeastern India and the Philippines have similar situations of a state being unable to effectively exercise state power in its remote regions, which is where PPW is being employed.
If you're serious about learning from Mao, i suggest you educate yourself into the actual situation Mao was operating under, and the choices they made. The biggest lie any communist is ever told by idiots is that Marxist strategies and tactics are universal. Analyses of reality are universal, strategies and tactics need to fit the circumstance.
Here is a good podcast to get into Maoism from a historic perspective rather than pop marxists on youtube who want to shill their specific shade of red.
https://peopleshistoryofideas.com/
>>1857924>Agricultural communitiesWhat an absurd surface level analysis.
Agriculture in the USA and europe is large monoculture fields for sale and export. No rural states in the USA have localised self sufficient production, and thus cannot support a rebel insurgency on its own. Conquering the cornbelt is not going to allow you to feed your army, recruit new people, maintain and produce new clothes, vehicles, etc.
Peasant conditions are vastly different from industrialised agricultural conditions. The fact that rural towns are dying out because all of the local production capacity is outcompeted and replaced by imported mass products from all over the globe by megacorps tells you enough.
Make a real analysis of reality. Perhaps PPW was possible 50 years ago in the USA, when local farm towns made and maintained their own machinery, weaved and sower clothes, grew food to feed their own people, but such conditions exist no more.
The rural areas are just as much fully dependent on the large scale capitalist production lines as the cities, and a tactic different from PPW is needed.
>>1857896>the onus is always on the most advanced ranks of the proletariat. if you look outside and you see movements but no revolution, it's on you.Bro leave me alone, I just got on this rock.
>>1858042Do you have any additional resources on the different strategies and tactics used in the bolshevik revolution vs the chinese revolution? Just interested, I'm not knowledgeable on the subject.
Most maoists are incredibly cringe and not fit for leading anything but their larp group.
That said, party rockin' soon. Things are happening outside of the fed parties like PSL, big networks forming. connections and contacts growing all in plain site. We just need a proper vanguard, a real leader of the people.
>>1858750>a real leader of the peoplederp
>>1857935The everglades too
>>1858757Worst place for that. It's a perfectly flat swamp
>>1858662yeah bro I done know, I already stated that I do not think it is universal.
>>1858676that was an informative post, thanks. I am mostly shitposting here but it's always good to encounter a sincere post.
>>1858750it's a genuinely exciting time o7
>>1858757what ever happened to them mannnn?
>>1858757https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seminole_Warsreal ones know
>>1858755Our Lenin, our Mao, might just be you, might be me. Could be any of us. A first among equals.
>>1858699Not off the top of my head. I'll track down where I've seen the two strategies articulated.
work in legal grey areas and try to achieve as much as possible both through parties with legitimacy or at least desire to run and get more people interested in their beliefs while also working with people to create self defense groups, there is strength in numbers above anything else and as long as we're there and able to both defend ourselves and work to bring in more support from the population.
>>1858844and when i say "legitimate parties" i mean whatever commie group is in the area even if they're bland or don't follow your beliefs by every metric
>>1858846Eh some feel like a sect that are more interested in you joining them to buy their books and give away your money.
>>1858750Did you get more members or something
>>1858848every group has fuckers like that, you literally just have to dodge them and put down their retarded grift, if they're above you challenge it by taking a more active role in the parties than these fuckers which is pretty fuckin easy if you've ever been in a communist party in the west since they literally don't do anything.
and as JDPON enjoyer, I honestly think that opposing the genocide and war in general comes before PPW because this country is owned by the MIC. It is the single most effective thing we can do as communists both for ourselves domestically and for the entire world.
>>1858156States do not develop evenly. Ancient Greece overperformed in art and theater, and the charming past ideas have weighed upon us like a nightmare. The West has overdeveloped in law (for itself) and technology, the combination of the two being especially difficult.
>>1858676>educate yourself into the actual situation Mao was operating underGreat analysis, and good advice. Thanks.
>biggest lie any communist is ever toldWhere does this come from in your opinion?
>>1858638>why would amerikkkan war vets ever do a socialist revolutionThey wouldn't. They would destabilize the gooberment just enough that an insurrection takes place.
Okay
>>1858157So you might describe me as an ML "sympathetic to MZT" in that imperialism is the primary contradiction, but Deng was not a traitor (he was a hero, as a matter of fact).
I live in a small upstate NY town. Hypothetically (of course): What do I do? How do I make PPW happen?
>>1859127why would the insurrectionary veterans sit back and let communists take power
PPW could have made made sense in 1920's europe top, and even then only in the south or the east
>>1859131Alternatively, during a war.
With the invasion of italy by the anglos in the 1940's, the fascist goverment having bailed completely and italy being de-facto occupied by the nazis, it became possible for a sizable amount of people to flee to the mountains and become partisans. Both the nazis and the RSI were too busy fighting the allies to be able to deal with thousands of them
>>1858224Somalian PPW when?
>>1859128Dengists are liberals with Chinese characteristics, that's all.
>>1857892Maoism is the only type of Marxism still actively experimented with and put into practice every day. It's the ultimate own against all 'Marxists' who aren't MLM, except revisionists in favour of the imperial Chinese state, who would say that China is socialist.
>>1859131PPW works in urban contexts too. People seem to think it is only a rural thing, but Maoism, being a living movement, has evolved a lot since Mao himself, and Urban PPW is being proved.
>>1859164>still actively experimented with and put into practice every dayYawn.
>It's the ultimate ownReenacting "civilization" all over again with your goofy identity colors sprayed on it does not take us past civilization. If you idiots fucked up and put us on another 2000 years of Christianity formation then you can all drink polonium.
>>1859164>PPW works in urban contexts tooName literally one example
>>1859170Tell us what you are doing better. Sitting on your backside waiting for a spontaneous uprising of the workers is nothing more than Christian millinerianism.
>>1859176>Sitting on your backside waiting for a spontaneous uprising of the workers is nothing more than Christian millinerianism.I take that back. You might actually be one of the smart ones here, shame about the whole identity politics and historical drama shit.
>>1859189I dont want to shit on popular soup kitchens, but the idea its the way to revolution is just wrong. It worked a building support when socialists where the only ones doing it, porkies and government have long coopted those efforts, mainly through welfare and ngos
>>1859225>It worked a building supportYou're not the fucking Party Chairman, drop the 50k bourgeois vibe dispensationalism shit and don't even open your fucking mouth without
* a material condition
* an identification of its preconditions
* a plan to disrupt the preconditions in the proletariat's favor
NO INVESTIGATION - NO RIGHT TO SPEAK
>>1859164>PPW works in urban contexts tooppw doesnt work at all
>>1859189>you've got a better chance of a PPW type situation arising from orgs like Food Not Bombsyou are retarded and dont understand what ppw is
>>1859270>revolutions are run for the "ratings"In what idealistic world does incremental public sentiment have fuck all to do with constructing revolutionary operations? You're going to have to draw an actual, material nexus between the two in *absolute, material* terms, not the relative, idealistic solipsism of the Western progressivoid managerialist.
>>1859164> PPW works in urban contexts too. How?
> Urban PPW is being proved.Where?
>>1858866>Where does this come from in your opinion?Mostly the cold war rivalry where every communist clique was falling over each other to claim to be the one true marxism and that all others were ineffective degenrative spawns of satan, so you should definitely support them and do exactly as they did, because they did it, didnt they?
>>1859189Please please please read this with your cell
https://kites-journal.org/2020/12/22/malcolm-x-didnt-dish-out-free-bean-pies/You have an absurd, ineffective, self-destructive view of this entire tactic. The only thing you're going to achieve doing what you propose is burn up your clique doing charity and being very simplistically undermined by the state.
>>1859225>>1859227>>1859270>>1859321you too
>>186015199.99% of "dual power" and soup kitchens and the like being done by the current movement in the first world is ineffective and actively hampers the movement.
>>1860154So called "terrorist" groups, as the imperialists like to call them, are what we should imitate. They show how to organize resistance and control territory in extremely adverse material and military situations. A modern communist party that has yet to seize power will look identical to Hamas or Hezbollah. One that has seized power over a state will look like Yemen.
>>1860161actual glowie holy crap
>>1860164You may not like the conclusion but this is the truth. You are welcome to argue against my thesis.
>>1860168theres no point in even learning terrorist bullshit if you havent even swayed the working class to communism in the first place. you are nowhere near a civil war even
>>1860170I don't mean that we should learn from the military activities of these groups, at the same time, those are worth studying and using when and if the time is appropriate. But how to do violence is not the important part.
The more important thing to lean is how they are organized, how to maintain leadership over a group that is constantly being targeted by your adversaries, how to recruit and train new members, how to obtain money and materials. These groups give important lessons on all of the boring logistical operations that determines if your organization lives or dies. And they give lessons learned form operating in the harshest environments, often at the cost of human lives. It would be foolish to ignore their experience.
>>1860164>actual glowie holy crapNor really retard, Hamas and Hez exactly built dual power. Again, Legit retard.
It's wild to call charity bullshit then praise Hamas, Hamas literally started as a charity organization
>>1860168>>1860161Hamas is a power that was able to form a defacto government in a small territory not much more than a concentrationcamp. It was brought to power party by the very zionists that now seek to destroy them, because the provide a casus beli for any and all attacks against palestinians, and provide no way to victory due to its tactics.
Hezbollah is a militia on religious grounds supported directly as a foreign agent by Iran, Yemen similarly.
They did not and do not implement forms of socialism. At best, they are nationalistic liberation fronts.
The model of insurrection on the edges of the periphery is by definition not applicable to 90% of the world. A communist insurrection is extremely unlikely to be supported by a foreign power that exists right now, and the one time it did sort of happen (Rojava) half of the communists lost their shit because they worked together with a great power in the moment.
It is not a real viable strategy for general use, and I advice you to read the article, because it also goes into why places that are defacto governments have different duties with regards to "serving the people" than non ruling groups.
Perhaps there will one day in the next two decades be a place where communist rebels on the edges of the pherifery can rise up and gain support from a great or regional power as a pawn against another great power, but that is unlikely. China has shown itself fully unwilling to support any insurrectionist or combative governments, even though there are several groups active in its neighbourhood that could serve such a function. Iran, Turkey, Russia and the US are unlikely to support a communist insurrectionary government in anything more than the very very short term, as they are not alligned ideologically and form a long term threat to their own stability in the region.
All the groups you listed are ideological extentions to a large degree of Iran, they are regional partners with similar ideals, goals and interests as Iran. The PFLP is not supported for that same reason, their goal is not the imposition of Iranian economic/Shia muslim coalition dominance over the region.
But aside from how idiotic it is to apply the tactics that work in the margins of world power control to the rest of the world, it misrepresents how Hamas, Hesbollah and the Houthis came to power. They did not come to power by starting with soup kitchens, they started as an armed group, wrengled control from the chaos, and then used the existing power vacuum to adopt the traditional role of the state, namely charity/taking care of the people.
Read the article I posted, it goes into great depth. Charity itself is not a road to power, it is something a group in power has to do. Starting with charity is like buying and burning fuel before you have a car.
>>1857892US state is way too powerful for PPW to work, wtf anon lol. There's a simple reason you have both more narco terrorists, crime, and guerillas in south america.
It's because they have weaker states. The US has an independent judiciary, an EXTREMELY well funded network of law enforcement and intelligence agencies, and a draconian legal system which routinely sentences people (especially racial minorities) to decades in prison. 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prison population. There are five times as many people incarcerated today than there were in 1970.
Even organizations like the US-sicilian/italian mafia which in the mid 20th century were untouchable in recent years have been infiltrated and its members imprisoned. Whether its gangsters, communists, or civil rights/protest leaders, the fact is the US state and its agencies have had a literal century of practice in infiltrating these groups and breaking them up or arresting their leaders/members and even if they aren't doing anything illegal they try to pull some agent provocateur shit.
The fact is that the US State is and has been extremely powerful, but now that its losing its external power and influence on the world stage its starting to turn those techniques inwards (even more than it did before). I don't think the US will go socialist until it suffers a loss of its empire, internal collapse, and accordingly the US petit bourgeoisie and labor aristocracy loses its wealth and the superprofits of imperialism are no longer enough to fund as strong of a security state, exactly like what happened to the fall of the british empire.
To defeat the US state you have to defund the US state and that can only happen when US imperialism is defeated.
>>1859321that is exactly what communist parties in the West draw upon though.
Maoists are mentally ill. Maoism is a form of brain damage.
Revolution, like any other kind of warfare, is 90% logistics, what the fuck do you think actual mutual aid networks are building? Logistics.
>>1859225>t worked a building support when socialists where the only ones doing it, porkies and government have long coopted those efforts, mainly through welfare and ngosIf you think our country's shitty welfare programs do anything for anyone but a very small minority of people struggling, then I can only assume you've never had to struggle at the level where you need to get help from one of these orgs. Bro fell for the capitalist PR hook line and sinker.
>Perhaps there will one day in the next two decades be a place where communist rebels on the edges of the pherifery can rise up and gain support from a great or regional power as a pawn against another great power, but that is unlikely. China has shown itself fully unwilling to support any insurrectionist or combative governments, even though there are several groups active in its neighbourhood that could serve such a function. Iran, Turkey, Russia and the US are unlikely to support a communist insurrectionary government in anything more than the very very short term, as they are not alligned ideologically and form a long term threat to their own stability in the region.
<In the fight for complete liberation the oppressed people rely first of all on their own struggle and then, and only then, on international assistance. The people who have triumphed in their own revolution should help those still struggling for liberation. This is our internationalist duty.Stop waiting for China or some other country to save you and do some work yourself.
>me listening to communists argue that mutual aid is counter-revolutionary because improving people's material conditions makes them less likely to be revolutionary
I have a friend
they don't know shit about Marx, communism, theory, nothing
they are what I call a "vibes leftist", an anarchist without knowing what that is, if anything
what do they do? coat drives, food drives, community lunches, event organization, community art projects, all types of shit like this
A revolution, like any other kind of warfare, is 90% logicistics
This person knows their community, knows who's in need, knows the most disenfranchised people, and is building their community further
This person, despite having zero theory, is more revolutionary than a large amount of supposed "real" communists
people like this are why I much prefer the company of anarchists
Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is the Highest stage of Marxism, with Maoist PPW being the only viable praxis to actually achieve Socialism (their are currently ongoing Maoist PPWs in India, the Philippines, Turkey, and Peru), with the caveat that
Maoist PPW is not viable under the current Material conditions of the Imperial Core, meaning that Left-Liberals/Social Democrats (ie. Leftist Democrats) should be critically supported as a “Lesser Evil” to Fascists/Reactionaries/Theocrats (ie. Christian Zionist Nationalist MAGAtard Republicans), just like the Sino-Russian Imperialist Bloc (ie. China, Russia, Iran, the Socialist States of Cuba and the DPRK, etc.) should be Critically supported as a Lesser Evil to U$ Imperialism Worldwide, though if/when Bourgeois Liberal Democracy is abolished in the U$ and a Fascist Theocracy (probably under a Trump dynasty) is established, which will implement Project 2025 and seek to throw all Leftists, LGBTQIA+, Feminists, Union Workers, Muslims, Homeless people, and Undocumented Immigrants in Concentration Camps, along with Invading Iran/Mexico, Authorizing/completing the Final Genocide/Annexation of Palestine (in order to rebuild “Solomons Temple” with the goofy ass Holy Red Cow sacrifices), and waging World War III with China (they will be forced to Invade Taiwan after the U$ decouples all trade with them), then the only viable Praxis Worldwide (including in the Imperial Core) will be Maoist PPW, with the inevitable Global Nuclear War destroying the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System (including the U$, EU, China, Russia, the Zionist State, etc), thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to World Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇵🇸🇮🇷🇸🇾🇱🇧🇾🇪🇮🇶🇨🇺🇻🇪🇷🇺🇧🇾🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
>>1860595>>1860610I don't think they're building logistics, but I think you're right that mutual aid is what we need more of in order to have strong logistics. Most mutual aid is re-branded charity and not actually mutual. Mutual aid within active communist social structures, though, would address logistics
Second, I agree that community building is a necessary component of building revolution, but I think it's backwards when community-building is made primary (either as something we have to do before we can move on to higher forms of organization, e.g. education, agitation, collective action, etc., or as the main tactic to employ). Ultimately building up networks in an apolitical and class-agnostic way is not going to help our ability to have our own politically charged, surveillance-resistant, strictly proletarian networks. So anyways I propose a decentral version of party-building as the alternative to class and class-war agnostic community building. We should be building up networks, with mutual aid, but in a way that defends our future success, which means organizing in a way that can withstand fascist violence and eventually overthrow the state. That requires some attention to clandestinity and compartmentalization, as well as an internal culture that is fully mobilized towards liberation, which requires a pro-political, pro-intellectual, pro-community defense (aka revolution and violence), pro-class, etc. 'common sense'. Building up networks of people who take care of each other is good because it helps us here and now, but it's like building sand castles for houses, they'll just be swept away in the next wave of bourgeois offensives. Like the model is more or less right, the instinct is right, but there's not enough theory and knowledge of the state and history in there (and often because this kind of practice is related to an anti-political outlook) to make this at all revolutionary. It's just darning the intentionally ripped social fabric, not realizing why it was ripped up or how to stop the person who did it from doing it again, but knowing that what is good is for the social fabric to be dense and strong. It's a correct instinct but it's at the same level of "let's vote for the less bad person".
>>1859189can confirm
t. knows
>>1860330Yeah yeah. I think the anti-imperialist movement and ending the genocide is the single most effective thing first world communists can do. Hell, it's also just the single best thing you can do per person overall worldwide because everyone suffers immensely from war and imperialist military dominance, and the only ones who gain from first world military dominance are…… like 10 people
>>1862208>t. knowsdisagree
>>1857915>when it has a 0% success rate outside [country of historically particular conditions]You're thinking of the October revolution of 1910s imperial Russia mate.
PPW has been successful Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, Nicaragua and Nepal and Afghanistan since China, just to the few I'm aware of (I know there's additional ones, in Africa among other places).
>>1860610>>me listening to communists argue that mutual aid is counter-revolutionary because improving people's material conditions makes them less likely to be revolutionaryTell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didnt read the article.
This is why anarchists never achieve shit, they refuse to even read good faith critique by other communists who do similar things to themselves and then say they would rather talk to socdems at infinitum than work with serious people.
what is PPW?
>>1860595>If you think our country's shitty welfare programs do anything for anyone but a very small minority of people struggling, then I can only assume you've never had to struggle at the level where you need to get help from one of these orgs. Bro fell for the capitalist PR hook line and sinker.Read the article, you lazy cunt, it addresses your delusions in great depth.
<In the fight for complete liberation the oppressed people rely first of all on their own struggle and then, and only then, on international assistance. The people who have triumphed in their own revolution should help those still struggling for liberation. This is our internationalist duty.
>Stop waiting for China or some other country to save you and do some work yourself.China was helped by the USSR, Vietnam was helped, Laos was helped, Nacaragua was helped, Nepal was helped. Cuba was the only communist PPW-like scenario that was not actively assisted. Afghanistan is not communist (and also they were armed by the very people they then beat out over decades). Hamas and the Houthis are being assisted, if you want to rope them into this.
History has shown that PPW does not succeed without assistance. You eternal china cocksucker reply of "china did it, why cant you, you cant demand anything from china, you lazy foreigner" is inane and historically inaccurate.
If you want to win, make strides, rather than just burn out your comrades or worse, get yourselves killed with no hope of winning, then make an actual analysis of history and your current tactics based on that history and the powers at play. The easiest way is to read the things people have already written and see if it makes sense. Such as:
>The article written by someone who has been involved in "mutual aid" for a long time and seeing how it was undermined historically and currently>Actual third world maoists screaming at first worlders that PPW doesnt work in states with strong central states and high urbanization and highly developed production and long supply chains.
>>1862442Protracted people's war, the most successful tactic for national liberation in under the imperialist stage of capitalism.
>>1862450>Protracted people's war, the most successful tactic for national liberation in under the imperialist stage of capitalism.The issue is that most of the world doesn't need a national liberation but a liberation from capitalism.
>>1862454Good luck defeating capitalism with it having its neocolonies strengthening its core via superexploitation all over the world.
The point behind PPW is that it is the easiest way to weaken capitalist imperialism, by hitting its "tendrils" and thus also gradually equalizing the domestic balance of power between the classes within the NATO countries, making a successful "first world" proletarian revolution more likely.
>>1862460>Good luck defeating capitalism with it having its neocolonies strengthening its core via superexploitation all over the world. My brother in christ how is 90% of the world going to wage a national liberation war in the few places outside of their own country and nation? Nevermind that most pheriphery don't have oppression based on nationality so they cant even wage a national liberation war since they're not occupied.
>>1862444>USSR was so glorious it willed Nepalese overthrow of monarchy into existence after its collapse!This is what dialectical materialism looks like!!
>>1862461Make India a DotP, threaten capitalism terminally.
>>1862466This but unironically.
>>1862467>Make India a DotP, threaten capitalism terminally.India can't have a national liberation was since its being ruled by its own national bourgoiesie with Modi as its head. The Naxalites aren't making substantial progress and aren't spreading nationally.
>>1862469Nobody is saying the working class or the communist movement is winning currently anywhere except the delusional. Though what needs to be done and capitalism imperialism's weak spots should be fairly obvious.
Or let me put it this way: your beloved labor aristocracy won't join in and risk losing loved ones while fighting to the death their bourgeois until they start feeling some of the hurt that make the global south industrial proletariat and poor peasants join jungle militias, launch colossal strike waves and industrial sabotages on a daily basis - that is done by starving off the imperialist bourgeoisie of its globally situated circuits of capital that is facilitated via superexploitation under this present stage of development (imperialism).
>>1862472>Nobody is saying the working class or the communist movement is winning currently anywhere except the delusional. Though what needs to be done and capitalism imperialism's weak spots should be fairly obvious. Thats not whats being discussed, you illiterate third worldist retard.
PPW can only happen in specific places, it isnt universalist. 90% of the world can't do shit with PPW, you cant wage PPW in most of the world, even most of the pheriphery.
PPW is a tactic to be used in the global struggle against capitalism, it isnt the end all be all. And your retarded turd worldist hate of anyone who happens to be born in the imperial core, which is a large part of the global proletariat, is only sabotaging the efforts to find, discuss, figure out and apply tactics that work in the imperialist core.
Neck yourself.
Does someone have a BRICS pacifier?
Baby cryin:
>>1862476
Reminder that both India and Philippines are English-proficient and that a western communist reverse brain-draining with their overeducation would be very beneficial.
>>1862477Explain to us how PPW is going to be a tactic than can be applied by anyone not living in Yemen or Palestine ATM. Lets go with some variety of examples: Argentina, Germany, South Africa, India.
Hard mode: Don't repeat the line "lazy westoids wants xyz group to do all the work", that is actually what you seem to be advocating, a lazy fucks position of cheering on third world revolutions on the edges, talking themselves into inaction because "nothing can be done where I live", hoping the third world proletariat saves you. Wake up. China, Vietnam, Laos, aren't going to save you, or any of us. So explain how your beloved PPW is going to save people living in those countries I listed if you claim its a universal strategy.
>>1862480Beneficial to who?
The fascist modi government who wages war against maoists?
Or the fascist filipnes government who wages war against maoists?
>>1862481Your frustration seem to hinge on the unfounded misinterpretation that I ever advocated for the universality of PPW, which is especially confusing considering I only ever spoke of India or Philippines, neither of which have overcome semi-feudal neo-colonial status.
We are speaking in English on a largely English-speaking communist imageboard and so your example countries are not relevant.
>Wake up. China, Vietnam, Laos, aren't going to save youNever said this and never believed this.
Also look at the OP again. They never claimed that PPW was universal either, and
> I don't see any other groups out there engaging in confrontation with the forces of my county.is open to interpretation - it just says MLMs are on the forefront in their country.
>>1862482To the communist movements there obviously. Is no anon able to argue without attacking strawmans here anymore?
>>1862485>We are speaking in English on a largely English-speaking communist imageboard and so your example countries are not relevant. What the fuck are you talking about, you dumb yank? Do you think anyone who speaks english only live in the english sphere or something? Answer the fucking question and stop backtracking. The entire thread is about how PPW isnt being waged in countries like the USA despite it being supporsedly the god given tactict that has a bazillion percent succesrate.
>>1862486Maybe make more substantiated statements than "move to <non communist poorish country>". Explain how a high education is going to benefit the maoists in India and the Philipines or how its going to benefit the MLs in india. Because it just sounds like BRICS developmentalist nationalism otherwise.
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