>>530465Like from memory, he was comparing Marx to every Deutsch Aryan gentile intellectual ever and going on about the analytical nature of the Volksdeutsche mind. The ironing.
>>530466Chicken or the egg
That's just the entire existence of western thought, OP. It's people saying "uhhhh what iffff people are bad but society makes them goooood?" and a bunch of people going "whoa" and then someone else standing up and going "uhhhh what ifffff people are goood but society makes them baaaaaad?" and a bunch of people going "whoa" and it just goes on like that for millennia.
>>530465Their clandestine German patriotism really was their blind spot. All of their analysis and predictions were more or less spot on until it came to something about fucking Germany.
>>530470Does the material conditions of Germany create German autism or does German autism originate in the psychological constitution of Germans?
It was one and a half centuries ago, get over it
>>530492I'm so over it I lalf every time I see a Marks and Angles quote from one and a half centuries ago.
>>530493Well, then I am not talking to you
If someone doesn't reply to a post, it's generally a reply to OP
I find it funny that if Marx and Engels from the 1840s-1850s would somehow be resurrected, they would very probably be NAFOids.
https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1849/01/13.htm>The Germans, Magyars, Czechs, Poles, Moravians, Slovaks, Croats, Ruthenians, Rumanians, Illyrians and Serbs came into conflict with one another, while within each of these nationalities a struggle went on also between the different classes. But soon order came out of this chaos. The combatants divided into two large camps: the Germans, Poles and Magyars took the side of revolution; the remainder, all the Slavs, except for the Poles, the Rumanians and Transylvanian Saxons, took the side of counter-revolution.>In its basic tendency, pan-Slavism is aimed against the revolutionary elements of Austria and is therefore reactionary from the outset.>The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.
>he's going on slobbering about "how this discovery could only be made by a REAL GERMAN"
wtf? no way either marx or engels would say anything remotely like this
>>530759Woulda been funnier if he said:
>with such thoroughness and acuity such as was only possible for a Jew.
>>530760Except Marx hated his Jewishness, and considered the Jew to be the embodiment of the capitalist mindset, huckstering and worshipping money. This is why later Marxists like Werner Sombart gave their support to the Nazis, they claimed that it was justified for the German spirit, which Marx demonstrated in his works, to struggle against its supposed antithesis, the Jewish spirit, or the capitalistic spirit.
>>530766That's not accurate.
>>530759I mean, he's kinda right. Obviously it sounds very racist but if you think about it, Germany was pretty developed, had a strong modernist philosophy brewing, a lively philosophical culture, organized workers, etc. It could've come from other well developed countries though, like England or France.
That's obviously not even mentioning the Hegelian theory popular in Germany at the time, and the way German culture just prints fucking autists like its nobody's business lmao, no offence.
Regardless of this. These motherfuckers were alive nearly 200 years ago. Like most of you motherfuckers grew up believing extremely racist, misogynist, queerphobic, colonial shit and had to unlearn it through lots of effort. If you're not STILL undoing these anachronistic beliefs inside you today, then you're probably harboring retarded ideas that you'll hold on for long.
They were living in a society that was insanely racist, misogynist, homophobic, and colonial, and they STILL managed to discover a bunch of fucking really nice fucking shit, on top of which basically trailblazing the practice of deworming your brain of class ideology, and be very much anti-racist, anti-colonial, and advocated for women emancipation the likes of which not even contemporary people manage to be so radically progressive and emancipatory.
If you're still a fucking moron and wish to quote mine to find questionable shit in Marx and Engels, perhaps you should start with your own conversation logs, and those of your family and friends.
Anyways, this is a glow OP so who cares.
>>530779Lol at this level of defensiveness.
>>530502>The Germans, Magyars, Czechs, Poles, Moravians, Slovaks, Croats, Ruthenians, Rumanians, Illyrians and Serbs came into conflict with one another, while within each of these nationalities a struggle went on also between the different classes. But soon order came out of this chaos. The combatants divided into two large camps: the Germans, Poles and Magyars took the side of revolution; the remainder, all the Slavs, except for the Poles, the Rumanians and Transylvanian Saxons, took the side of counter-revolution.>In its basic tendency, pan-Slavism is aimed against the revolutionary elements of Austria and is therefore reactionary from the outset.>The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.<I find it funny that if Marx and Engels from the 1840s-1850s would somehow be resurrected, they would very probably be NAFOids.Maybe they'd realize that the cracker races are the reactionary ones to be disappeared and embrace jungle theory.
>>530782
Maybe if you completely ignore the basis of his analysis and only focus on the (flawed) conclusion. This is pretty familiar wording to what third-worldists say, that first world nations are too dependent on a capitalist society and they therefore will fight to maintain it and oppose revolution. Marx is saying that the slavs were generally too reliant upon Russia for their national liberation and thus would position themselves in favor of such feudal absolutism shown in Russia as opposed to capitalist development.
>>530760wouldve been gemmy
maybe we need to revise marx and engels just a little bit
just change 1 word
>>530783Wild, lol. Again, just because Marx or Engels said a bad thing here or there does not discount their ideas. Take the good, drop the rest. This quote mining is insane.
>>530780yeah it's funny how some people can never be like "sucks that he thought that way, but that's not why I read his works" and instead twist themselves into pretzels
(another GERMAN INVENTION!!!!) trying to make it sound less bad
>>530796Because Marxist authors are constantly being deligitimized. Marx has been called an antisemite for ages. He was also called a racist against black people for the Jewish nword letter,. The defamation campaign wishes to quote mine Marx throughout his entire life of writing to find problematic comments, extract it from any semblance of context, and asset that the belief was held with conviction for his entire life.
It's dishonest.
>>530465They are wh*te, what else did you expect?
>>530800They're being delegitimized by the giant porky media apparatus saying stupid shit like vuvuzela no iphone 100 holodomillion dead. Some college student who already agrees with Marxists on 99% of shit saying "wow Marx was cringe for saying jewish nigger" does not actually have the power to delegitimize marx's economic analysis. And defending him/engels saying whatever dumb 19th century germanophile shit doesn't actually defend the economic analysis either. It's like this guy said
>>530794>Take the good, drop the rest.Meanwhile…
>>530779This guy is not rescuing Das Kapital from a fire by saying "ackshually even though it sounds racist, it's not" on a Papua New Guinean Beekeeping forum.
>>530806Unironically all me.
Yeah, I guess I got trigger happy. I don't disagree.
>>530802>Karl "der mauri" Marx
>WhitePick one
>>530759>>530806you have no idea what racism even means
>>530796ok lib keep screeching about the wrong use of language
>>530825What does it mean?
>It is now quite plain to me — as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify — that he is descended from the negroes who accompanied Moses’ flight from Egypt (unless his mother or paternal grandmother interbred with a uyghur). Now, this blend of Jewishness and Germanness, on the one hand, and basic negroid stock, on the other, must inevitably give rise to a peculiar product. The fellow’s importunity is also uyghur-like.If you notice the OP said chauvinist and not racist anyways.
>>530465I've never seen a good argument for any 'Eurocentrism' in Marx beyond the very real and obvious fact that he dealt with capitalist society mainly that existed in its mature form only in Europe and North America then.
>>530779Pretty good post also addressing what I mentioned above. Marxism is beyond Marx, we don't regurgitate mindless dogma. The idea that Marx's potential failings have an effect on the general correctness of communist doctrine is ridiculous. That said I stick by my point that most racism allegations against Marx are products of a misreading.
>>530827That letter is still funny. Marx sure had a way with words even when writing private letters to friends.
>>530828>I've never seen a good argument for any 'Eurocentrism' in Marx beyond the very real and obvious fact that he dealt with capitalist society mainly that existed in its mature form only in Europe and North America then.Why don't you read the thread
>>530828>That said I stick by my point that most racism allegations against Marx are products of a misreading.How is talking about skull measurements and the importunity that uyghur genetics causes not racism?
>>530502>Marx and Engels would've supported a bourgeois nation-state over another decades after everyone has reached a capitalist mode of productionDo you faggots even understand the shit you read or is quote-mining all you can do?
>>530835>The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward.Reactionary peoples(whites) will be eliminated in the coming global revolutionary war. Whites have proven to always stand on the side of counter revolution for over 100 years now.
>>530830You mean talking about his general skull shape? I don't think Marx grabbed a ruler and measured Lasalle's skull, despite being close friends before their major disagreements, but you really needed to force that so people make the inevitable link to phrenology.
Despite their use of racially-charged words that were normal back then Marx and Engels stressed the importance of class over any other thing, congratulated the Americans for abolishing slavery, that any racial or ethnic characteristics aren't eternal and unchanging values, and thus whatever shared racial profiles people living under the same social relations of production would change over history and geography.
This place can't go a single fucking day without being ahistorical and moralist.
>>530837
>You mean talking about his general skull shape? I don't think Marx grabbed a ruler and measured Lasalle's skull, despite being close friends before their major disagreements, but you really needed to force that so people make the inevitable link to phrenology.
His statement is obviously phrenological in nature. Your gaslighting is so weak dude you're only hurting your point.
>Despite being outraged at the use of racially-charged words that were normal back then Marx and Engels stressed the importance of class over any other thing, congratulated the Americans for abolishing slavery, that any racial or ethnic characteristics aren't eternal and unchanging values, and thus whatever shared racial profiles people living under the same social relations of production would change over history and geography.
You can be anti-slavery and a racist. Lincoln was also anti-slavery and also a racist. Care to give one quote to that effect. Obviously Marx believed in racial science and genetic dispositions. Once again your gaslighting is so weak.
>This place can't go a single fucking day without being ahistorical and moralist.
You're the one being ahistorical. The people above saying "give him a break, everyone was a flaming racist back then" made a much better argument.
>>530839>You can be anti-slavery and a racist. Lincoln was also anti-slavery and also a racist. Care to give one quote to that effect. Obviously Marx believed in racial science and genetic dispositions. Once again your gaslighting is so weak.I mean just like you can be the biggest animal rights activist in the world and not believe in equality of man and animal. It's such a weak cope to say "guy said slavery is wrong, that means he doesn't think certain races are inferior!"
Who the fuck cares about what Marx exactly thought and, even more speculatively and subjective to your biases, what he would have exactly thought today? Marxism is a way to analyse systems and inform praxis based on that analysis, rather than purely about some guy's opinions.
>>530830By the 19th-century Aryans were thought to be a unique human race and were cited as scientific evidence of racial superiority. de Gobineau uses terms like "white species" in Inequality of Human Races which was a mainstream textbook at the time. Engels and Marx writing about the "Aryans", "Semites", and "Turanians" all coupled together was genuinely progressive for the time.
>>530841>>530841why name marxism then? talk about great men theory ……
>>530465Racism was normal back then and anti-racism was a rare oddity. You need to understand the context of their time and culture.
>>531006Because I want séx from hot girls in local Marxist orgs.
Being a German nationalist in the 20th century was the progressive position at that time.
>>53102719th* holy fuck I am dumb.
>>530826>screechingjust because you say someone is doing something doesn't make it true
>>530838>normal back thenthere it is
>>540001As dumb as phrenology is and as discredited as it is today, a lot of people believed in it at the time because it was pretty much the mainstream view.
>>540083To be clear I'm not justifying or excusing it - Marx of all people should have been skepitcal of things like this. Just pointing out that this is not really surprising that he would believe this nonsense. His view of colonialism as progressive is way worse and more worth criticizing, particularly since it was a fairly contentious topic.
>>530465Nazism and Communism arent so differet after all.
Even Marx succumbed to race realism.
And he looked down on black people
>>530834white hands typed this post
>>540001Sounds sketch of a recounting.
There's some racist shit Marx said. I can maybe pull up a PDF. Not sure if there's interest. It's not about OTJQ or using gamerwords. Marx apparently had some race realism going on talking about Europeans being more advanced racially. I would have to search for the article and I'm not even sure how trustworthy it is.
>>540001Lol I thought the mids anchored this thread. Wow, I could tell Narx was a phrenology enthusiast from the lasalle letter and the uyghurish shape of his skull quote. But this is some next level shit. Should we reintroduce phrenological inspection to our parties comrades?
>Marx endeavoured to make sure of his men and to secure them for himself. He was not such a zealous devotee of phrenology as Gustav Struve, but he believed in it to some extent, and when I first met him – I have already mentioned it – he not only examined me with questions, but also with his fingers, making them dance over my skull in a connoisseur’s style. Later on he arranged for a regular investigation by the phrenologist of the party, the good old painter, Karl Pfaender, one of the “oldest,” who helped to found the Communist Alliance, and was present in that memorable council to which the Communist Manifesto was submitted, and by whom it was discussed and accepted in due form. On this occasion a comic incident happened. One of the “old ones” of the Communist Labourers’ Educational Club was very enthusiastic over the manifesto that was read by Marx with passionate emotion – perhaps similarly as the “Robbers” once upon a time by Schiller – was quite beyond himself, like all others, applauded and shouted “Bravo” as loud as he could; but his pensive mien gave evidence that some dark point occupied his mind. On leaving he finally called Pfaender aside: “That was magnificent, but one word I did not understand – what does Marx mean by achtblaettler (plant with eight leaves)?” “Achtblaettler, achtblaettler – I have heard of plants, of clover, with four leaves, but Achtblaettler?” Pfaender was puzzled. At last the riddle was solved. Marx had a little lisp in his youth and at that time still spoke the unadulterated Rhenish dialect; the mysterious achtblaettler, behind which the old Cabetist had scented a magic formula, were simple and honest arbeiter (workingmen). We laughed many a time over this misunderstanding which, however, was beneficial to Marx in that henceforth he strove to clip the wings of his Rhenish dialect.
>Well, my skull was officially inspected by Karl Pfaender and nothing was found that would have prevented my admission into the holiest of holies of the Communist Alliance. But the examinations did not cease. Mohr, who in possession of his start of five or six years was conscious of the full superiority of ripe manhood over us “young fellows,” used every opportunity to test us, and especially me. And with his colossal scope of reading and his fabulous memory he could make it rather unpleasant for us. How he rejoiced when he had tempted a “little student” to go on the ice and demonstrated on the person of the unfortunate the inadequateness of our universities and of academic culture. Unique IPs: 33