[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)


File: 1741100310458.jpg (67.07 KB, 255x386, sycophant-1 (1).jpg)

 

Please argue against this point from a Marxist-Leninist lens:
Let me preface by saying, I am not an anarchist or a social democrat. While many of the perceived "failures" of the USSR were simply an honest attempt to grapple with real problems, the single party system and its control over the state was a failure. The party system creates a culture of sycophancy and yes-manism instead of a competition of ideals. It insulated the people making decisions from those for whom decisions were made. In effect, this could be perceived as a new class system based on the hierarchy of the party where the state then resembles a modern corporate structure with a total monopoly of every aspect of the people's lives. This is actually superior Capitalism as it had to be responsible for its own citizens welfare but retained may of the problems that exist in any purely top-down hierarchical structure. In a new Communist state, they should grapple with ways to efficiently make the party officials responsible to the people or at least make their competencies objectively accountable.

Cut 95% of government and party officials and replace them with artificial intelligence, leaving only code engineers responsible for maintaining the AI, who must be rotated every 3 to 5 years.

The code executed by AI must go through public voting and transparency. Voters must undergo comprehensive political education to understand how to maximize human societal progress and interests, rather than treating politics as a meaningless outlet for nationalist emotions.

砍掉95%的政府和党派官员,用人工智能代替他们,只留维护人工智能的、每3到5年必须轮换的代码工程师
人工智能执行的代码经过公投与公开,投票的人民必须经过完整的政治学习懂得如何使人类社会进步利益最大化而不是把政治当成无意义的民族主义情感宣泄

I am not an ML either because of the same reasons, but also not an anarchist because I would like to keep bureaucracy and courts. I would suggest the following improvements for a more stable state socialism:
1) The head of state must have term limits. A socialist government needs to function regardless of who is in charge and it can't risk becoming reliant on one leader and his clique. No matter hoiw competent they might be, once they are gone only the yes-men remain.
2) Allow differeent factions. Democratic Centralism makes a huge error by assuming that dissenting opinions go away when you forbid them, however this only motivates non conforming elements to hide their positions. The collapse of the eastern bloc pretty much proves that internal party discipline does a poor job at keeping libs out of power. It would be better to let them openly display their views and then either manufacture consent against them or turn them into controlled opposition.
3) Implement sortition. A full on direct democracy may not be desirable or even possible, but policies can not be passed without an assembly selected by sortition voting on it, or at least being able to veto it. The setting of the Agenda and other parts of the government should remain in the hands of representatives and technocrats.

>>2176221
I agree with both your points. I love the idea of sortition but I also think that direct democracy isn't all that difficult in our modern technological age.

I'd point towards Cockshot's system of developing state budgets through direct democratic vote. If something that complicated could happen then I have no issue believing that anything else could be handled the same way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqkdBn6pznw

>>2176163
> The code executed by AI must go through public voting and transparency
If you're talking about neural networks, that's not really possible

>>2176221
As an anarchist I think this is a pretty good list, the only thing I'd add to it is the ability for constituents to directly recall their representatives should they fail in their duties

>>2176255
His argument about legitimacy is definitely a good reason for direct democratic measures. However most people would probably prefer most minor decisions to be in the hands of technocrats. I don't have any opinion on how to regulate washing machine gaskets and neither do you. Of course these technocrats should be kept in check by small commitees which could be selected via sortition and perform random audits of their work. IIRC Varoufakis suggested something similar in one of his books.
>>2176280
You are right. I should have added this as a fourth point.

File: 1741115023415.jpg (173.29 KB, 498x498, 1734373276338-1.jpg)

>>2176221
>because I would like to keep bureaucracy and courts.
Hahahahaha
>communism is when you make a world building fantasy!!
Fuck off liberal. You were never an ML and never will be for no other reason besides you being a fucking liberal.

>>2176388
I've always pictured a federation style government made up of a worker owned mega corporations. Set a constitution for all corporations to follow and all democracy happens in the work place. The guys that want to set the standard for washing machine gaskets will be workers elected to those positions within their corporation. The corporations will elect delegates to the federal government to do geopolitics, manage national infustructure and services. At this late development in capitalism I think the goal should he to seize Amazon instead of the state. That's where the power lies, in the board of directors not in the halls of congress.

>>2176151
>Please argue against this point from a Marxist-Leninist lens:

was this intended for chat GPT?

I hate the state

File: 1741127377008-0.png (323.68 KB, 1667x1675, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1741127377008-1.png (497.36 KB, 1667x1661, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2176163
>Cut 95% of government and party officials and replace them with artificial intelligence,
specific, measurable, acheivable, relevant, timely plan to achieve this? can you REACT to resistance from party officials who don't want their job automated?
REACT
Revise as needed
Expect resistance
Avoid pitfalls
Create defenses for each success
Take control of narrative

>>2176394
frfr 90% of visitors REFUSE to read the manifesto

>>2176394
>You were never an ML and never will be
Yes? ML is flawed for the reasons pointed out by OP.

Deepseek says:
"
From a Marxist-Leninist perspective, the critique of the single-party system in the USSR as a failure due to its alleged creation of a "new class system" and a culture of sycophancy can be addressed by examining the historical and material conditions that necessitated such a system, as well as the theoretical foundations of democratic centralism and the vanguard party.

### 1. Historical and Material Context:
The Bolshevik Revolution occurred in a largely feudal, agrarian society with a weak proletariat and a hostile international environment. The single-party system was not an arbitrary choice but a necessity to defend the revolution from internal and external counter-revolutionary forces. The consolidation of power within the Communist Party was a response to the immediate threats of civil war, foreign intervention, and the need to rapidly industrialize a backward economy. In this context, the party acted as the vanguard of the proletariat, guiding the transition to socialism.

### 2. Democratic Centralism:
The Marxist-Leninist model of the party is based on democratic centralism, which combines internal democracy with centralized discipline. While decisions are made collectively and democratically within the party, once a decision is reached, all members are expected to uphold and implement it. This structure is designed to prevent factionalism and ensure unity in action, which is crucial in a revolutionary context. The critique of "yes-manism" overlooks the fact that democratic centralism allows for vigorous debate and discussion before decisions are made, while ensuring disciplined execution afterward.

### 3. Vanguard Party and Class Consciousness:
The vanguard party is not meant to be a separate class but rather the most advanced and conscious section of the working class. Its role is to elevate the class consciousness of the masses and lead them in the struggle for socialism. The party's hierarchical structure is not akin to a capitalist corporation but is intended to be a tool for organizing and mobilizing the working class. The party's leadership is accountable to the masses through mechanisms like soviets (workers' councils), which were designed to ensure that the state remained a dictatorship of the proletariat rather than a dictatorship over the proletariat.

### 4. Critique of the "New Class" Theory:
The idea that the party created a "new class system" is a misinterpretation of the Marxist-Leninist framework. In socialism, the party and state officials are not a separate class with distinct economic interests but are part of the broader working class. Their role is to serve the people and advance the socialist project. While there were instances of bureaucracy and corruption in the USSR, these were deviations from socialist principles rather than inherent features of the system. The solution to these problems lies in strengthening democratic mechanisms and mass participation, not in abandoning the vanguard party.

### 5. Accountability and Competence:
The critique that party officials were insulated from the people and lacked accountability is valid to some extent, but it is a problem of practice rather than principle. Marxist-Leninists argue for continuous efforts to improve the accountability of party officials through mechanisms like recallable delegates, regular elections, and mass participation in decision-making. The goal is to ensure that the party remains closely connected to the masses and responsive to their needs.

### 6. Superior Capitalism?
The claim that the USSR resembled "superior capitalism" is a mischaracterization. While the USSR faced challenges in fully realizing socialist democracy, it fundamentally transformed the economic base by abolishing private ownership of the means of production and planning the economy to meet social needs. The problems of hierarchy and bureaucracy were not a result of socialism but of the incomplete transition to communism and the persistence of capitalist remnants in ideology and practice.

### Conclusion:
From a Marxist-Leninist perspective, the single-party system in the USSR was a necessary tool for defending and advancing the socialist project under historically specific conditions. While there were shortcomings and deviations, these do not negate the system's revolutionary potential. The task for future socialist states is to learn from these experiences, strengthen democratic mechanisms, and ensure that the party remains a true vanguard of the working class, accountable to the people and committed to the realization of communism.
"

>>2176976
>The critique of "yes-manism" overlooks the fact that democratic centralism allows for vigorous debate and discussion before decisions are made, while ensuring disciplined execution afterward.

Based Deepseek understands more than anarkiddies do

The Intellectuals on the Road to Class Power is a good one to start with. Then read The Prince, with the understanding that the party form was an extension of these principles, and finally Agamben's essay In Playland to understand hot/cold societies.

>>2176388
>I don't have any opinion on how to regulate washing machine gaskets and neither do you.
Neither would a technocrat. The people regulating those things should be experts in the field i.e. the workers who create such things.

>>2176986

>The critique of "yes-manism" overlooks the fact that democratic centralism allows for vigorous debate and discussion before decisions are made, while ensuring disciplined execution afterward.

The problem is that this is idealistic. Rational actors will seek to agree with powerful individuals. Rational actors will seek to build consensus using their authority within the party. It's like saying that the workers in a factory can just debate their boss. In an ideal system where everyone plays morally it can work but when the mechanisms of control and hierarchical rank and command are in play, these systems will inevitably lead to the centralization of authority and the quashing of all dissent.

>>2176221
>Democratic Centralism makes a huge error by assuming that dissenting opinions go away when you forbid them
thats the thing about One Party States is that often become One Party in name only when you account for tendencies and cliques within said party.

>>2176976
Wth based deepseek!!

>heckin deepseek
No AI. You WILL build socialism with your bare hands and you WILL like it. Fuck you.

>>2176394
>You were never an ML and never will be
Good. Why would I want to be a ML and be more concerned with zealously defending a failed and authoritarian ideaology which was never even marxist rather than learning from failures of the past?

>>2177364
Under traditional democratic centralism these cliques are still better off concealing their views, if they don't conform to the current party line.


Unique IPs: 18

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]