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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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Everytime you visit /edu/, post in this thread. Tell us about what you're thinking about, what you're reading, an interesting thing you have learned today, anything! Just be sure to pop in and say hi.

Previous thread >>>/leftypol_archive/580500
Archive of previous thread
https://archive.is/saN3S

Excuse me coming through
A quick note on the video @ >>>/leftypol/1538283
Also [vid related] for archival purposes

Around the 29 minute mark Peterson criticizes Marx and Engel's for assuming that workers would magically become more productive once they took over.

This actually happened historically, most of the actually effective productivity tricks work places use now were developed by Stakhanovites.

https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1936-2/year-of-the-stakhanovite/year-of-the-stakhanovite-texts/stalin-at-the-conference-of-stakhanovites/
Post too long. Click here to view the full text.
373 posts and 103 image replies omitted.

Finished Economic Science Fictions by various authors (ed. William Davies, 2018), a bunch of essays looking at science fiction through the lens of economics and the other way around.

Ha-Joon Chang's essay is OK, the rest is meh to godawful. You can expect the average contributor here to be that kind of guy who doesn't know what "penultimate" means but likes to say it anyway. A better bit early in was criticism of the cyberpunk trope of the revolutionary lone individual or tiny group (and likewise there was criticism of the twin trope of the big bad boss or tiny cabal of exceptionally evil people). Later, I was treated with a short story with exactly that and it also got an evil mega-corporation with a big ventilation shaft. Oh evil mega-corporations, will they ever learn. (Or maybe they did and that's why they want to make us all fat.)

An actual passage from one of the essays:
<Land is valued due to the continuous demand for mineral and water resources, meaning that even today mining is the physical action analogous to extraction, as mining punctuates the differing logics of accumulation throughout historical time. Therefore, in terms of the global struggle around labour, mining remains fundamental as a site of exploitation and class consciousness; but it also symbolises a meeting point between the natural and the technological. The film Moon (2009) by Duncan Jones explores the future of mining, now taking place on the Moon.
Isn't it interesting how mining is analogous to extraction. Bet you thought it was extraction, you stupid pleb. Or maybe you said to yourself: "Hmm mining being analogous, hmmmmmm hmm it used to be that way, but… even today??" Mining is also symbolizing something. Imagine what it feels like to have your esteemed logics of accumulation punctuated by mining, I hate that! Very profound that bit, ahem, think about that. Now try reciting above passage into a camera with a straight face.



 

drop them PDFs, we will rebuild edition
164 posts and 381 image replies omitted.




File: 1718668376650.jpg (336.06 KB, 1600x1200, 1711516360762917.jpg)

 

So /edu/ this site is full of threads debunking standard chicken headed talking points but what are some legit criticisms of leftist thought?

I found this book Black Marxism by Cedric Robinson and his thesis runs as following. Marxism and European socialism, instead of being an ideology of the proletariat, was a petty bourgeois ideology born out of a ressentiment for the bourgeoisie and the belief that the proletariat could be better managed. Leftists falsely understood capitalism as a rationalizing force which would create a homogenous proletariat, while in truth capitalism exacerbates racial differences to manage pops more efficiently. Leftists mistake nationalism and racism as essentially reactionary, while in truth it has always played a huge and sometimes preponderant part in history.

Second Kolakowski's book Main Currents of Marxism makes two important claims. Terms like "materialism" and "dialectics" are not well defined leading to ambiguity and confusion. This is why Lenin and the Russian Marxists misinterpreted Marx's materialism as an ontology of matter. Second leftist materialism is determinstic and offers a telological history in which outcomes are predetermined. This undermines human creativity and autonomy and is why the Soviets and "actually existing socialism" became totalitarian in practice. The party led by masters of Marxist theory and technocrats can guide society through more and more bureaucratization cancelling out the need for democratic participation and subordinating individual agency to the needs of the bureaucracy itself. I believe the Maoists saw this and tried to break from it but China ended up producing the same results because even the red guards embraced the same interpretation of historical/dialectical materialism.

I want bring out Carl Schmitt here for all the leftcoms and anarchists. If you have a radically open society you can easily get invaded by an influx of new people. /pol/ stormfaggot colonization of online spaces proves that anarchic environments are highly vulnerable to this type of invasion or the emergence of extremism within. Anarchist societies would not have the means to resist these invaders. Probably why the Zapatistas are scrapping their communal autonomy model because of cartels moving into Chiapas and causing trouble. The anarchist army could resist an external military force. Its been done before. But an anarchist society is prone to collapse and reversal through inabiliPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
23 posts omitted.

>>22317
Can't coexist. Well, the only example of something like this that I know of is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Labor_Commune
and the soviet state eventually collectivized them.

>>22340
>There aren’t enough resources on earth to sustain universal communism.
there actually are
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452292924000493
>Provisioning decent living standards (DLS) for 8.5 billion people would require only 30% of current global resource and energy use, leaving a substantial surplus for additional consumption, public luxury, scientific advancement, and other social investments. Such a future requires planning to provision public services, to deploy efficient technology, and to build sovereign industrial capacity in the global South.

>>24038
Thats because the KKK was founded by former Confederate soldiers.

>>22312
>Leftists mistake nationalism […] as essentially reactionary
Marxists definitely don't so this doesn't really make sense.

>This is why Lenin and the Russian Marxists misinterpreted Marx's materialism as an ontology of matter. Second leftist materialism is determinstic and offers a telological history in which outcomes are predetermined.

also fundamentally mistaken, first in thinking that its a misinterpretation, and second that its deterministic and teleological

>>22343
>Zoomers just want free birches and free shit. That’s what socialism is about to them. Free stuff.

genpol.
millennials were accused of the same thing



File: 1721685972574.png (Spoiler Image,9.87 MB, 2572x2572, ClipboardImage.png)

 

I think whether you're religious or not Christianity has plenty of universal values that could be applied to your life. God had plenty of reasonable things to say about how to be a good person. Be kind, be honest, don't kill, don't steal, be friendly, that kind of stuff. I think whether you choose to be a Christian or not, you should try to at least embody the more universal virtues that Christians hold as true. There's not quite agreement on the more controversial aspects of it, which I know are why some people leave the church. I personally am not a fundamentalist or biblical literalist. Though I know that most Christians have good intentions in mind, regardless of how strictly they adhere to the text. I see the Bible as more of a guide rather than an absolute truth, and I think you should too if you don't.

In serving Christ, there's ups and downs to it. Sometimes you'll fail, because we humans are sinful in our nature. I know I have done that a lot, I regret it, and I will try to repent. But, if you trust in the Lord, and demonstrate your faith, you can have salvation. Just remember that its all about Jesus, and that everything in life should be secondary to that.

Being a Christian is a calming experience in some way. It is knowing that no matter what, there's always a god watching over you. He is many things, including love, but above all else, He is holy. Its reassuring to know whatever direction the world is going in, whatever geopolitical issues or issues in your personal life are happening, that Jesus will always be with you. That when your life comes to an end, if you have faith, you will be able to spend eternity with Him. But do not focus on yourself, focus on Jesus, because he and his heavenly kingdom is in who we trust.

Christianity is compatible with a leftwing worldview, it just needs to be tempered to remember what is most important as a Christian, Jesus, and serving him. In Latin America, I think that there's this thing called Liberation Theology which is a combination of a worldview of Christianity and Leftism. That's what I wanted to mention.
38 posts and 1 image reply omitted.

>>22610
Every religion implicitly declares that it is mutually exclusive with other religions, and that believers of other religions are not redeemed until they align with it. That's basic to religion - you don't have "diversity of faith" in any real sense. You either follow the religious truth, or you don't. For polytheism, they didn't grand to "God" this cargo cult power in the same way - basically, everyone believed in basically the same thing about the nature of the gods, whichever one they kept. For the common people, the gods of the rulers were irrelevant, but none of them seriously doubted the cosmology at work. That wasn't controversial to anyone, and the rules were simple - the gods were cruel, and so was humanity, and it wasn't going to be any other way.

Religion was never premised on ideology in the way you're implying, where they believed religion described every iota of space and had to. The Christian dogmas about this were more about the Church's right to control education and how everything was taught, rather than a necessary claim about "fundamental nature" that was unchanging. That is a Germanic corruption.

>>22614

What is it about westoids and making sweeping generalizations about religion. The default form of religious is to believe whatever you want from any random mixture of religious traditions like hippy white women do. You people hand waive this away as "syncreticism" but that's literally how most people approach religion if they're not stuck in some weird abrahamic cult. Most people in China or Japan don't identify as Buddhist any more than they identify as a Mendelian or Newtonist. The default is to simply not give enough shit about religion to try to have dogmatic consistency. Someone visiting both a buddhist temple and a daoist temple in the same week doesn't give a shit that one tradition believes in both reincarnation and an afterlife while the other believes in either.

>>22527
>trying to appeal to people's pre-existing moral values by showing that Christianity agrees, in order to convert them to Christianity
what does your religion offer in terms of ideas then? xD I'm already perfectly Christian I guess, no need to learn anything new or do anything about it

Of course in identifying as a christian you identify with other real people, and you come together to reinforce your shared ideas, and this gives a sense of social validation, which is the real desire catered to by religion. Validation. That's kind of pathetic if you really think about it. Billions of people seeking reassurance that their irrational, repressive beliefs are right. And look, the all-knowing man agrees with us and supports our irrational beliefs! How could anyone disagree with us?

>Being a Christian is a calming experience in some way.

Of course. Because you have can perfect certainty in your beliefs, values, and actions because the all-good all-knowing entity is backing you. Don't mind that you can't verify its existence, believing in things with no proof is also a virtue! Y'all are living under the cultivated hallucination of an all-powerful, all-good, all-knowing replacement for daddy and mommy. It's a psychopathology. Straight to jail.

>Christianity is compatible with a leftwing worldview

I invite anyone who falls for this shit to read Henryk Grossmans essay on Christian and Religious Socialism. It can be found in the second volume of his collected works. It goes through a history of attempts to merge Socialism with christianity throughout europe. It paints a bleak picture. It's basically a form of tailism. It's probably good to go to the masses wherever they congregate, with no special discrimination against religious congregations, but we have no use for calling our morals (that we already know are right!) christian morals, or making up immaterial forces that we can imagine cheerleading our every word and deed. It only waters down the potency of our message and we will be fought against by clergy every step of the way, since religious institutions are not democratic. Along with that religion fosters cross-class community and preaches to a cross-class audience, and thus preaches bourgeois values and a class unity message [and for pePost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>22527
>I think whether you're religious or not Christianity has plenty of universal values
Not really no. It doesn't say anything that prior societies didn't already come up with. Christians really love appropriating concepts that are either obvious or much older than Christianity.
And, obviously, God isn't real. Jesus, assuming he was actually a real person, was not divine. The basis of the religion is false, the values it provides are either redundant or harmful. It should be cast off. It's an ancient religion from another land, it has no value to us.

Christianity has been the global religion since the fifteenth century. All the universal values of Christianity are found in older beliefs



 

Something I have never seen seriously discussed is reprimand when a laborer breaks some rule. Let’s take the example of absenteeism or repeated failure to follow safety rules (either those that protect the worker or those protect the consumer).

On the anti-communist side, I see the standard criticism of forced labor, which doesn’t really answer my question. On the pro-communist side I just hear anecdotes that amount to “we won’t need that because personally I will never break safety rules!” which also doesn’t answer my question, but I love that for you.

So where can I find examples of these policies written out? Has no one thought about workplace misbehavior at all? It’s really difficult to find anything that discusses this.
6 posts omitted.

>>12574
The laziness I think of is the capitalist laziness: the business owner who comes in once a week for an hour to nitpick overworked workers, the manager who doesn't advise and take an active role in the workplace, or the owner's child who has a position on the board but spends their days at the beach. I’m not sure that form of laziness can really be applied here. I don't mean coming into work late or missing a few days without telling anyone. What I mean by absenteeism is excessive missed days. Missing 30% of your workdays (excluding days off) is starting to get excessive.

My other concern, safety, doesn't seem to be addressed in this thread. There are other issues as well like harassment and bullying. What I mean by safety is, take for example, the way one fells a tree. If felled improperly, it can hurt a coworker. If the reason for doing it can be addressed socially, then great, but if they're doing it too much then it starts to beg the question of if it's intentional and what to do about that.

I agree that technology does more of the work in increasing productivity and that this can be used to the advantage of society. Less work for all, but these are all goals to attain, not really concrete ways of dealing with workplace misbehavior. It is often a solution to a number of problems though: “we would have no need for x rule if this process were handled by technology”.

>>12576
>Do I seriously
Unfortunately, I have to annoy you further. This basic instinct to care for our comrades is to be expected in an ideal scenario where problems just amount to some resolvable personal issue. But it's just that – the ideal and not the reality of the transition from the beginning of post-capitalism to the success of communism.

This ideal assumes we have gotten past the cultural transition stages where conditions like Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are no longer prevalent (the incidence in the US appears to be anywhere from 4%-8% of the population). Misbehavior takes several generations to eradicate and it requires active education of existing and future generations on the importance of collectivism. Even then, the studies show that East Germany had some incidence of NPD; we don't really know if that will evPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

It shouldn't be a struggle to answer this question, gang.

>>12569
Just use the same disciplinary rules we have now. Get told off by your manager and co-workers, or get fired. Abolishing class society, private property and money doesn't mean we're abolishing all forms of social discipline.


Amazing how people will readily question the need for labor discipline but will get offended over questioning school discipline



 

ITT post information about the history and anthropology of the New World. A lot of new anthropological work has been done in this field in recent decades that has not yet entered public consciousness.
123 posts and 158 image replies omitted.

>>23933
This is the first draft cause I couldn't put all that I wanted in it.

File: 1742146651443.gif (394.43 KB, 220x220, vince-mcmahon.gif)

>>23933
>4096x4096
>24.9 MB
I just wish it had citations or at least the names of the artifacts so I could look them up.

>>23935
I know the feeling, anon. Spent a lot of time last month on a Mesoamerican art deep dive and it was frustrating when I couldn't find more info on the objects I found (doubly so when it was on some foreign museum (Like seriously, monkey? You stole this and you can't even be bothered to investigate what it represents or where it comes from?)).

But you can ask me about any objects you are curious about in the pic, I know the name of most of them and where they are located or if you want the full res pic of the object.

Breaking

>New Teotihuacan-style altar and burials found at Tikal


The nature and extent of interactions between the distant regions and cultures of Mesoamerica remain open to much debate. Close economic and political ties developed between Teotihuacan and the lowland Maya during the Early Classic period (AD 250–550), yet the relationship between these cultures continues to perplex scholars. This article presents an elaborately painted altar from an elite residential group at the lowland Maya centre of Tikal, Guatemala. Dating to the fifth century AD, the altar is unique in its display of Teotihuacan architectural and artistic forms, adding to evidence not only for cultural influence during this period, but also for an active Teotihuacan presence at Tikal.


https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/teotihuacan-altar-at-tikal-guatemala-central-mexican-ritual-and-elite-interaction-in-the-maya-lowlands/78F1EE665FD51C6B41457872CDA20A80

File: 1744138369320.png (6.89 MB, 3000x2132, ClipboardImage.png)

>>24123
>includes map showing location of Tikal but not Teotihuacan



 

How do we educate and radicalize the downwardly trending PMC, the educated, the Wine-Moms, the Rural Lumpen-Proles, the population of the country. We are clearly heading towards revolutionary conditions. We can't miss the chance like the French did in May 68, or fail like the counter-culture did. How does it happen? Is there hope?

Is this the group that are most prone to radicalization (to the left)? There are already a lot of proles who hate the system and just need organization and guidance plus a little help here and there. Dispossessed petit bourgeois and labor aristocrats are more prone to hitlerite tendencies if anything, no?

>le marketplace of ideas
the only way the petit-bourgeois are going to want to join the proletarian movement is if it is strong, which it decidedly is not today, its been crippled since the end of wwii

>>24099
Have you seen the tendencies of the rural working class? Or like, everyone in America. My point which I did a shit job of getting across is that as America declines, we face the breakdown of the middle class and of the labor aristocracy itself. I feel like a return to more feudal conditions (or whatever comes next) will mean that these people will become more precarious and more proletarian, right? plus, these are the people in our country. Unless there's no hope at all (hello J. Sakai), what choice do we have but to try?

>>24098
The PMC and the wine-moms are fundamentally reactionary parasites who embody the ills of the world, and I have no concern with saving or reforming them. I'd love nothing more than to see them all off themselves.
The other categories you've mentioned are definitely salvageable, however, even despite their reactionary tendencies, they can still be sublated.

>>24107
Wine moms, depending on how you define/identify them, are perhaps some of the best suited (some of them) to turning left. A lot of them just buy into whatever NPR or MSNBC tell them sure, but so many feel disappointed and dejected every time the Democrats fail. I know because I literally see it. The American voter, buy being so uneducated, have such insane politics it would drive you mad. I've met Hillary Clinton Stans who also love Luigi Mangione, or Pussy hat wearing protesters who want to see tribunals for ICE. It's crazy. You can't pick and choose your population in the country, you just have to work with who you have.



File: 1743183519249.png (8.96 KB, 500x250, Oekaki.png)

 

Serious question:
Why do adults always say that newer generations are less literate when kids nowadays read and type more text than any other era?

Also, most adults are incapable of remembering let alone appreciating any academic material and they're not held in contempt for it. Yet kids are morally burdened with the task of academic fulfillment.

We are living in an age where young people spend more time in school than every before. Compulsory laws and extensive additions to curriculum make every youngster a student.

Yet schoolteachers are unappreciative of this.
Meanwhile, we are seeing less industrial and social skills present in the prime age population.
9 posts omitted.

>>24113
no you shut up, All you people here do is tell each other to kill themselves or accuse them of being racists or pedos.

And your hyperbole over TikTok is exactly what Im talking about. People just love to blame any external object instead of the internal

>>24114
Ok ? Theres at least one hundred more that say the opposoite.

>Why do adults always say that newer generations are less literate when kids nowadays read and type more text than any other era?
Don’t read primary sources, books, they read in other ways

>Also, most adults are incapable of remembering let alone appreciating any academic material and they're not held in contempt for it. Yet kids are morally burdened with the task of academic fulfillment.

i wish I studied more as a kid. Fuck its hard now, what I’d learn in school in a day now would take me a week of study
>Meanwhile, we are seeing less industrial and social skills present in the prime age population
I’m desperately seeking a blue collar job. Construction will be in massive demand

>>24064
Yes. They aren’t reading the BOOKS.
If they were raised to read the BOOKS we did, real history (get it before it all gets covered up), and not raised by an iphone then they would have a balanced view. There are many bazed gen A like this I hope and pray.


t. Born at the dawn of the beautiful millennium ahead of us. The next 5-10 years will be scary for the teens these days

>>24073
It’s not all about you, and your generation. The one after yours is more important than you. You will raise them.

>>24117
>Yes. They aren’t reading the BOOKS.
If they were raised to read the BOOKS we did, real history (get it before it all gets covered up), and not raised by an iphone then they would have a balanced view. There are many bazed gen A like this I hope and pray.


You know that books were considered blasphemous in the first century AD?
And they still use books in schools or use virtual school courses with extensive passages.

It's not really the media that's the problem.
Because we have hundreds of web articles showing history events that even official history books won't tell you.
If the media format was really the problem, then why was it that even before iPhones, people were complaining about academic performance tanking?



File: 1744042513806.jpg (84.33 KB, 1024x814, 1743873999117173m.jpg)

 

Okay but seriously are there any actual writings by communists in the periphery critiquing communism in the imperial core? Full stop, just a periphery explanation of what is to be done in the imperial core



 

What is the value of either of their works of thought under capitalism? What is their intellectual value to studious communists today?

http://classics.mit.edu/Browse/browse-Plato.html
http://classics.mit.edu/Browse/browse-Aristotle.html
50 posts and 10 image replies omitted.

>>24089
>most technological innovation comes from war in the same way; the military-industrial complex brought us personal computers, the internet and mobile phones.

Actually not really true
The Internet was a military project, but telephony existed as a civilian project

>>24092
This meme that the military is "productive" is so annoying. The organization that blows through billions of dollars and can't keep their toilets functional is totally the reason why technology can advance. Jesus H. Christ, my sides.

There are two great barriers to technological advance, and a third that always should be remembered. The first is that no one has any incentive to create technology for its own sake, and so, technology only arises when someone sees the necessity of proliferating it. The second is that the political incentives of human society are all arranged against technological advance. The human dream is for nothing to change so that their internecine conflict can be carried out at the lowest level of technique possible, so that ritual sacrifice may continue. The third is that humans really aren't terribly bright, and are further hobbled by a ruinous pedagogy. There are very few who make new discoveries their primary occupation, and most of those few want technology for nefarious and spurious purposes. The last thing any of these people want is technology to enter the hands of ordinary people, who would use that technology to never be ritually sacrificed again and forbid the practice of ritual sacrifice, preferably by exterminating the cults guilty of perpetuating it. Nothing in nature mandated this ritual sacrifice. It has always been a human undertaking, and exemplifies the agency of their race. If the ritual sacrifice ever stopped or became too difficult, you can see their Satanic race shrieking, including the people who would fight for their liberation out of necessity.

If humans were not singularly focused on ritual blood sacrifice, then this habit would be negated, but the result wouldn't be "infinite technological advance". The faith in intellectualism is the core cause of ritual blood sacrifice and the thrill of torture. In a world where ritual sacrifice is abated, intellectuals and technologists would be at the very bottom of the social ladder, where they belong, and viewed with correct suspicion. Technological advance would continue, but it would continue primarily to perfect things that should have been worked out before, if not for the proclivities of a deficient and retarded race.

If you're talking about some new paradigm or approach to knowledge itself, that isn't really an "intellectual" undertaking, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

Since the "military industrial complex" began, technological advance has essentially frozen. The last novel technology was the laser, and nothing much came of it. Biology is hopelessly ideological, and physics was actively sabotaged because general physics knowledge would have made clear the method and practice of this ritual blood sacrifice. It would be too obvious to not see what happens. By placing all technological advance under the national security state, the lockouts against any technological advance that would impede ritual sacrifice were permanent and irreversible. As the natsec state was locked in by the 1960s, technological progress has completely frozen, and in key areas it has actively regressed. The longer this goes on, the greater the terminal decline, with its end result, predicted in advance, being terminal insanity of the race and all of its members.

Unless, someone really has a mind to change it and asks why we came to this sorry impasse. Everyone who does that is violently attacked and ridiculed. Anything against ritual blood sacrifice is "retarded" automatically, even though the dogmatic "science" of aristocracy is so pants-on-head retarded that it is insulting to even humanity's limited intelligence.

Before you say "but muh computers", the computer itself does not contain any novel technology. They don't operate on magic. Integrated circuits are an advance in industrial technique, but they are really very small versions of the ponderous vacuum-tube computing machines, which themselves were poor replacements of human clerical labor. I don't discount what the computer would have been, if humanity weren't a Satanic race given over to ritual sacrifice. But, if we were going to use the computer for good, most of what happened since 1970 would not have happened. Computerization should have entailed the end of the price system and most of the lockouts, but the ruling elite of humanity decided to use the computer for the exact opposite, and succeeded at "Germanizing" the thought process so that the computer was granted mystical properties it does not possess.

What really made the computer a remarkable piece of technology is that it suggested that a general theory of technology rooted in rationality and scientific inquiry was possible for the first time. Past "general theories of technology" were found in political economy and were one part moral philosophy and mired in the political intrigues of the human race; or they were makeshift economic plans that sometimes were imposed by the command of states, and sometimes were worked out locally by whomever had to manage something. Computerization would have entailed the end of managerialism, and thus of many of the lockouts maintained so that ritual blood sacrifice and vice can be protected.



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