/edu/ - Education

re-reading the iliad, i have come upon some passages which may be of interest for marxists (citations are dependent on the format of fitzgerald's own work):
<"Never have I had plunder like your own from any Trojan stronghold battered down by the Akhaians. I have seen more action hand to hand in those assaults than you have, but when the time for sharing comes, the greater share is always yours. Worn out with battle I carry off some trifle to my ships. Well, this time I make sail for home. Better to take now to my ships. Why linger, cheated of winnings, to make wealth for you?" [the iliad, fitzgerald translation, book 1, lines 128-190]
here, achilles complains that agamemnon exploits the labour of those who serve him.
there is this passage also:
<"your spirit's like an ax-edge whetted sharp that goes through timber, when a good shipwright hews out a beam: the tool triples his power" [the iliad, fitzgerald translation, book 3, lines 13-70]
alexandros directly communicates the notion of labour "power" to hector, milennia before marx adopts his own view from thomas hobbes, as he communicates:
<"One of the oldest economists and most original philosophers of England—Thomas Hobbes—has already, in his Leviathan, instinctively hit upon this point overlooked by all his successors. He says: “The value or worth of a man is, as in all other things, his price: that is, so much as would be given for the Use of his Power.’’ [value, price and profit, chapter 7]
its interesting in one respect, since hobbes later produced a translation of the iliad, and more relevantly, marx directly mentions homer as a figure of universality in the grundrisse:
<"is Achilles possible with powder and lead? Or the Iliad with the printing press, not to mention the printing machine? Do not the song and the saga and the muse necessarily come to an end with the printer’s bar, hence do not the necessary conditions of epic poetry vanish? But the difficulty lies not in understanding that the Greek arts and epic are bound up with certain forms of social development. The difficulty is that they still afford us artistic pleasure and that in a certain respect they count as a norm and as an unattainable model. A man cannot become a child again, or he becomes childish. But does he not find joy in the child’s naïvité, and must he himself notPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

someone in /QTDDTOT/ posted these and I didn't see them here

>>24427
I use the overboard too but we are the exception, clearly, based on how much traffic the alt boards get.

>>24425
>Every time you post, it will be at the top of the overboard. Just fucking post in the thread regularly without saging and people will see it.
Why don't you do it then?

>>24429
Huh? I already am bumping this thread when I could be saging it. It's not my thread either, I have no care if it lives or dies, but I am helping you keep it alive at this very moment.

>>24430
Ok bro keep bumping and educating all 0 IPs per 10 years

>All you've done so far is link to youtube videos anyone could find by searching: "Learn Chinese" on youtube.
guy posting baby sensory videos: "its over, I've given up all hope, you can continue if you want, I don't see the point if no one takes my contributions seriously as a geopolitical project that actively avoids touching any school or library"

>>23775
>Also I think work is just shitty for the normal reasons… it hurts your body, you have to deal with smug bosses and social games, psychopath coworkers who entertain themselves with some harassing mini-game rather than just doing the work, the traffic and commute, weird scheduling, low pay, etc. I actually don't care about exploitation. Workers are paid more or less an average value that corresponds to the market value of their labor. Surplus value is used to expand or renovate means of production. This is whatever. I'm not even salty at other people making more money for less work, I accept it as the way of things for now. I'm mostly upset with people's individualistic and petite-bourg attitudes, from co-workers and bosses. Anyways I'm doing fine now, thanks for the critique

Schooling is the same way but people rationalize it

>>23145
I studied music at uni, and it was fine. The people were nice, and I ended up meeting a friend group for the first time since secondary school that I still meet up with regularly. The lectures themselves were mixed. A lot of good info, but most of it available for free online. Reading books and getting a good instrument teacher would take your skills just as far.

I now work in education. Barely enough money to cover my bills, but I still enjoy parts of it. Some of my course mates are session musicians and the like, but it seems like such a grind for not much more benefit. I don't want to be a businessman, I want to make music, which I now do at home by myself. I do some guitar teaching on the side now and then, so we'll see what happens.

Higher education provides the following:
>A shared place to study and gather
This could easily be an online forum, and it was during covid. If it's a coffee shop, library, or park, it's nearly free.
>Professors, teachers and tutors
This could be a professional who helps you at no cost. I had no trouble finding people skilled in math and computer science to help me when I was pursuing my CS degree.
I recently started learning to draw, and I know a tattoo artist through a friend who is willing to help. There are many forums related to drawing where very experienced people will critique your work at all hours of the day.
>A curriculum
You can find these online, and pirate every book, article or piece of software required, for free.
>Last, but most important, a degree
Can't get this without going to higher education, and it often gatekeeps the entire profession or at least the good jobs. So it's still worth going to college or university in some cases. In addition higher education gatekeeps educational funding. You need the loans to focus on your education. If you try to self teach computer science for instance it probably won't go well, because you're trying to work as you study, probably can't get things done without deadlines, might not be using a coherent curriculum, and probably won't seek out your own mentor. But none of these require higher education except the degree. Even networking can be done outside of higher education. In fact, you're more likely to encounter employed professionals outside of a college campus than in one, but your relationships won't be as deep as you all go start your careers.

Imo none of the above besides the degree itself is worth 40k a year for the average American. Maybe if you're going to an Ivy or very well ranking school. Keep in mind some certifications require a degree as well such as a CPA, PE, so on. If you don't know what to do, you should figure out if the degree has reasonable financial returns. If it does, then go get the degree if you're unsure. If the degree doesn't have good financial returns, I wouldn't do it if you're the average American.

>>23760
You were the prototypical young adult who ends up with 60k+ in debt and doesn't have any employable skills or meaningful network to show for it. This is your own admission. The grass isn't always greener.

>no-skill work destroys the body and you'll have to work so much to pay all your bills that you won't have a life (unless you are very lucky)
A lot of industries that require a college degree can ruin your health and life. It's much more rare I'll admit.
>>if you don't have any cert or unique hard skills to gatekeep your labor position some, you're competing with any immigrants, you're competing with people on meth and coke, you're competing with suicidal 40 year old no-lifers who have perfected their 'craft', you're competing with nepo babies who treat a job like a fun little pastime, etc.
Yeah and as a software developer I'm competing with the entirety of the world because of outsourcing + guys with fake job histories & dubious degrees imported from India under H1B.
>all degrees are the same, where you get it doesn't matter, all that changes is how many connections you gain (e.g. online schooling won't get you any), so never even think about private schools or honestly anything that seems too large or fun. Stay with your parents if you can or the lowest cost of living area.
not true in computer science. some degrees really are toilet paper. I agree that good state schools are sufficient, but some of the bad state schools are terrible and don't get you to an employable level, somehow.
>>don't fall for the jobs for women. This basically just means any care work. You will be paid minimum wage to be an on demand private chef, maid, masseuse, grocery shopper, ass wiper, therapist, friend, and dick holder. It's not worth it. Prefer jobs that are more neutrally coded, they pay more for the work
Yeah this is true
>job hop, attempt to get a union job, gov job, infrastructure job, etc. because you will have relative security
Sort of true but ultimately you want to have the capability to get different jobs rather than hedging your entire life on not getting let go from one job. In general I agree.
>>your body is your ability to work. IPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>23775
>often you don't really make money until you start your own business. It's pushing petite-bourg stuff to disaffected young men.
start an HVAC cooperative, fat

I just go to audiobookbay. BTW OP, Hobsbawm's "Age of " tetralogy is great nonfiction history.

>Age of Revolution
>Age of Capital
>Age of Empire
>Age of Extremes

Great books.

Full Audiobooks of Das Kapital and Theories of Surplus Value excellently read aloud in high quality and uploaded for free on Youtube by Andrew S Rightenburg
https://www.youtube.com/@AndrewSRightenburg/videos
Many other free Marxist audiobooks:
https://www.youtube.com/@SocialismForAll
https://www.youtube.com/@dessalines6388/videos

>>23418
>first is the assertion that marx was not a theorist of barter,
he wasn't, at least not in the sense that adam smith was. marx pointed out (and this was verified by anthropologists in the 20th century) that under "primitive communism" (what we now call hunter gatherer societies), barter took place between communities rather than individuals. So the level of barter was not a constant search for double coincidences of wants between individuals living in the same society. At the community level things were shared (to a considerable extent but not a total extent) while between communities barters were arranged. Basically bater occurs between groups that tolerate but do not entirely trust each other, in hunter gatherer society. Furthermore (and here I'm going with Caroline Humphrey and David Graeber) to the extent that people did barter inside primitive societies, it wasn't pure barter, but rather long term arrangements that didn't rely on a continual coincidence of wants. I.e. I give you fish today, since they will go bad, and you give me the stone axe a week from now after you have made it. I accept this time lag because i trust you and we will make similar arrangements in the future and have had similar arrangements in the past.


Here is Marx in chapter 2 of capital volume 1 where he mentions barter for the first time in that book:

>The direct barter of products attains the elementary form of the relative expression of value in one respect, but not in another. That form is x Commodity A = y Commodity B. The form of direct barter is x use-value A = y use-value B.[5] The articles A and B in this case are not as yet commodities, but become so only by the act of barter. The first step made by an object of utility towards acquiring exchange-value is when it forms a non-use-value for its owner, and that happens when it forms a superfluous portion of some article required for his immediate wants. Objects in themselves are external to man, and consequently alienable by him. In order that this alienation may be reciprocal, it is only necessary for men, by a tacit understanding, to treat each other as private owners of those alienable objects, and by implication as independent individuals. But such a state of reciprocal independence has no existence in a primitive society based on property in common, whether such a society takes the foPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>23424
read Humphrey on barter
https://voidnetwork.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Barter-and-economic-disintegration-by-Caroline-Humphrey.pdf

Found To Kill A Nation by Michael Parenti on youtube. Very good and very short book.

Video of the History of European Languages from 4000 BC to 2021 AD, ✊😜!

This is the most normal post in the past 24 hours.

>>24374
What do think of my new thread Comrade, and particularly what do you think of the Video of the changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years that I posted at >>24368 , 🤔?

These three maps depict the distribution of paternal lineages (Y-DNA Haplogroups) in Europe, associated with Germanic, Slavic, and Italo-Celtic populations, respectively. Paternal lineages associated with the diffusion of Germanic peoples from the Iron Age onwards, include Y-DNA Haplogroups I1, I2a2a-L801, R1a-L664, R1a-Z284, R1b-U106, and R1b-L238. Paternal lineages associated with the diffusion of Slavic peoples from the Iron Age onwards, include Y-DNA Haplogroups I2a1b-CTS10228, R1a-CTS1211, R1a-Z92 and some branches of R1a-M458. Paternal lineages associated with the spread of Proto-Italo-Celtic people (ancestral to both the Italic peoples, including the Romans, and the Celtic peoples, including the Gaels, Britons, Gauls, and Celtiberians) from Central to Western Europe in the Bronze Age, starting circa 4,500 years ago during the Bell Beaker Culture, belong exclusively to Haplogroup R1b-S116 (aka P312), in other words most of the European R1b minus the Greco-Etruscan R1b-L23, and the Germanic R1b-U106 and R1b-L238. Notice that the distribution of these Germanic, Slavic, and Italo-Celtic Paternal lineages matches very closely to the modern distribution of Germanic, Slavic, Romance, and Celtic Ethnolinguistic groups (the last two are both descended from the Proto-Italo-Celtic people of the Bell Beaker Culture 4,500 years ago) shown in the Video of the changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years that I posted at >>24368 (OP) , ✊😜🧬!

Here is an extremely detailed Ethnic Map of Europe, this is probably the most accurate one I have found yet, though I still have a soft spot for the Video of the changing Ethnic Map of Europe over the past 2000 years that I posted at >>24368 (OP) , ✊😜! As I noted in my previous post, the similarity with the distribution of Germanic, Slavic, and Italo-Celtic Paternal lineages can be seen pretty clearly with the modern distribution of Germanic, Slavic, Romance, and Celtic Ethnolinguistic groups shown in this map, and it would be really striking if someone could merge the three maps of Germanic, Slavic, and Italo-Celtic Paternal lineages together in order to further demonstrate this similarity, ✊😜🧬!

most of marx's work wasnt even published in his lifetime, and works like capital vol. 2 and 3 were edited by engels. marx was not an island.

I think Plekhanov's formulation is the best.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1898/xx/individual.html
>Without a Marx noticing everything and spreading his ideas, we wouldn't be here.
Why was Marx able to come up with his theory of history? You might say because he had access to the ideas of others before him, but even those ideas were able to develop because of the development of scientific technology and social organization. Historical materialism would be impossible without a mountain of resources to make such a historical theory from. Dialectical materialism would be impossible without sufficient scientific development which requires experimentation with developed technology. His critique of philosophy required the theories of Proudhon, Fichte, etc to develop, which required capitalist relations in order to be able to criticize property or praise nationalism.

>>24348
>Why was Marx able to come up with his theory of history?
hegel.

>>24348
>why was marx able to come up with his theory of history?
Because he was smart and worked hard

>>24364
>horse champagne glass.jpeg
Pooner anon, is that you?

>>24367
Much appreciated.

>I need to read irrelevant philosopher to understand other IP to understand another IP to understand the guy who correctly rubbished and critiqued them all
Come on.

if we look at etymology, we can see that the word originally comes from the greek "dialektikē" (διαλεκτική), which refers to the art of discussion. this meaning is similar to dialog (διάλογος); dia-log(os). if we take sources from plato, we can see that he employs "dialectic" in this way:
<"And what would you call someone who knows how to ask and answer questions? Wouldn’t you call him a dialectician?" [cratylus, 390c]
yet, dialectic to plato is not merely a mode of communication, but the process of gaining knowledge by its mode of inquiry,
<"What mechanism could possibly turn any agreement into knowledge when it begins with something unknown and puts together the conclusion and the steps in between from what is unknown? None. Therefore, dialectic is the only inquiry that travels this road, doing away with hypotheses and proceeding to the first principle itself, so as to be secure." [republic 533c-d]
to plato, then, knowledge itself becomes a condition of dialectic:
<"he reaches the end of the intelligible, just as the other reached the end of the visible. [.] And what about this journey? Don’t you call it dialectic?" [republic, 532b]
<"Then, do you call someone who is able to give an account of the being of each thing dialectical?" [republic, 534b]
in plainer terms, this is the socratic method:
<"Now my art of midwifery is just like theirs in most respects. The difference is that I attend men and not women, and that I watch over the labor of their souls, not of their bodies. And the most important thing about my art is the ability to apply all possible tests to the offspring, to determine whether the young mind is being delivered of a phantom, that is, an error, or a fertile truth [.] The common reproach against me is that I am always asking questions of other people but never express my own views about anything, because there is no wisdom in me; and that is true enough." [theaetetus, 150c-d]
or alternatively,
<"The dialectician chooses a proper soul and plants and sows within it discourse accompanied by knowledge—discourse capable of helping itself as well as the man who planted it, which is not barren but produces a seed from which more discourse grows in the character of others. Such discourse makes the seedPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>24360
Wow that painting is pretty fuckin' beautiful

>>24362
The funny part about that Jacobin trash is that all the quotetweets are absolutely clueless too. Of course what Chibber says isn't materialism he's just peddling naive realism under the label. But he's not entirely wrong: communists do understand class actions as driven by material (i.e., economic) interests.

The key is that communists don't just assume people act out of class interest, they expose those interests, make them conscious, which is what actually reform of consciousness. It's not that everyone always knows or follows their class interest, class society hides those interests behind moral justifications, even morality talks against those interests. Also, I'm not sold on Chibber's democratic idealism. There's no mention of the middle class and how their democratic demands actually obstruct the class interests of the proletariat.