/AKM/ - Guns, weapons and the art of war.

So in the context of ukraine receiving some F16, I was thinking about how air defence has progressed enough that modern jets have kinda become overkill (and even worse, overpriced) for the task they can actually accomplish without being shot down, namely, being launch platform for long range missiles and doing anti recon/suicide drone patrol duty (like seen in the iran demonstration attack against israel).
For these task, using a full blown, state of the art, 5th gen stealth jet airplane is completely unnecessary and a waste of resources. A ww2 style fighter would do the job just as well for a fraction of the price.

And indeed, ukrainian seem to have apparently used an old yak 52 training plane for shooting down drones with great success. So much that russia apparently shot an iskander at it.
Given that you can buy a yak for around 50.000€ and an iskander is estimated at around 3.000.000$, I think theres a lot of potential in going back to cheap non jet aircrafts for many tasks.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/07/18/deploying-drones-and-missiles-russia-is-trying-to-blow-up-ukraines-world-war-i-style-yak-52-dogfighter/

>>5262
>ukrainian seem to have apparently used an old yak 52 training plane for shooting down drones with great success.
>forbes
LMAO no. Russia shot down those several times. Jet fighters are needed, as are slower low-tech aircraft, as are SAMs. This is what combined warfare is. The USSR leaned heavily on air-defenses and made the best in the world, but it still had a significant aircraft fleet, because air defenses alone are not getting the job done. Drones have vulnerabilities, and low-tech strike aircraft are niche.
>For these task, using a full blown, state of the art, 5th gen stealth jet airplane is completely unnecessary and a waste of resources.
True, which is why the Su-57 has been used against priority high-threat targets rather than doing what the Su-34 and Su-25 do. the Su-57 can absolutely mount the same weapons as those two, but it's a waste of time.

Additionally only low tech aircraft is a good way of high losses in a high-tech peer-conflict, or even a near-peer conflict. In the Gulf-war the A-10 had some of the highest loss rates of ANY aircraft in that war and many of its missions were accomplished by F-16s and F-15Ds at standoff ranges, in part because the US coalition lacked proper SAM defenses and relied only on air-superiority rather than a combined arms approach, they were lucky the Iraqis were weaker and more disorganized.

>>5264
>LMAO no.
no what ? do you deny you can shoot down a recon drone with a simple motor airplane ?

>Russia shot down those several times
even if they did, the idea was more using it into your own safe airspace. And using any missile to shoot it down, you're still paying too much.

>Jet fighters are needed, as are slower low-tech aircraft, as are SAMs. This is what combined warfare is
no shit, way to miss the point.

>rather than doing what the Su-34 and Su-25 do.
any jet fighter will be a magnitude more expensive than a regular motor plane

>only low tech aircraft
I didnt advocate for having ONLY them. But do you really need a jet for lobbing FAB-500s ?
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>>5270
Your spacing is ass, please don't do this.
>no what ?
You realize that people can scroll up and see exactly what I'm saying "no" to right? The fact is that Ukraine has failed to shoot down drones with its trainers, since it's literally pulling WW-1 shit, with people firing handguns out of open cockpits. There's literally a Russian drone video where they try and fail to shoot it down.
>even if they did, the idea was more using it into your own safe airspace.
*laughs in long range SAM*
You realize that Ukraine has been using very long range stand-off weapons like cruise missiles and are STILL getting shot down, right? Only a few days ago an Su-35 shot down a MiG-29 - which was using a HARM missile in a long-range ground-strike - from over 200km away, with an R-37. Earlier in the war the S-300V4 set a similar record kill from a similar distance of over 200km. An S-400 shot down an Su-27 over Kiev earlier in the war from 150km away. Pantsir, Osa and Tor SPAAG/SAMs have shot down numerous low-flying missiles, drones and other aircraft.
>using any missile to shoot it down, you're still paying too much.
If you're an idiot using patriot anti-ballistic long-range missiles against drones. A single Tor missile costs maybe a couple thousand dollars. A single yak-52 costs 50-100 thousand dollars, so you're dead wrong.
>way to miss the point.
I didn't miss your point. I don't disagree in the necessity of low-tech aircraft, but not like Ukraine is doing, and frankly an attack chopper would do just as well, if not better.
>any jet fighter will be a magnitude more expensive than a regular motor plane
Any jet fighter would also be magnitudes more effective.
>do you really need a jet for lobbing FAB-500s
In an SAM-heavy air-space like Ukraine? YES.
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>>2642
>The idea of it going to 2025
There is a lesson there. Stop being emotional, stop eating the propaganda slop, study everything and look closely at the serious people involved in war and political theory. Honestly I didn't need to do half of that to be sure that this stupid war would last a while so if you were wrong you really need to revamp your way of thinking

>>4682
as cool as crossbows are, his "instant legolas" bow is even neater I think. And easier to make DIY and less regulated too !

Tbh there's better options in the form of airgun, airbow, or using black powder/antique.

>>5712
I disagree as crossbows tend to be deadlier than any kind of airgun at the same price.

I feel like for the risk involved trying to defend yourself from an intruder in the best case scenario with a crossbow and how houses are built in countries with such gun laws, investing in a 3D printer and learning chemistry might be your best shot…

at least that's what i thought but my father saw a mile away what i wanted a 3D printed for and prohibited me from printing guns… he didn't say anything about AP mines tho

The government can track the signals of an antenna drone. If you were to do this in your minecraft server you'd want a fiber optic drone like seen in Ukraine. Though if they find the drone itself they can track the manufacturer and buyer. Your absolute best bet is 3d printing as many components as possible and buying the wiring and hardware with cash.

dying by a gun seems preferable to dying of the plague tbh

>>5706
Saucy

>>5706
Icons of anti-imperialist struggle

Warm and fuzzy.

>>5481
For ISR probably satellites, drone swarms and space planes, the reaper has proven outdated with how easily it can be targeted and destroyed.

drones will I think be incredibly important for rebellious partisan activity within a civil warring state. Anti-regime forces can deal quick blows to critical infrastructure, especially substations, with drones, and then allow conventional fighting forces to come in and clean up. Yes artillery can do the same thing, but drones are less expensive and can do it more precisely. also I've been thinking about how kids in rural areas will sometimes throw rocks with copper wire attached over power lines to create a blowout. Imagine drones spaced out holding a really long copper wire and then just releasing it across the the buses of an entire substation.

China is building flying drone motherships. Pandora box is open.

>>5460
This. Nothing beats a drone with shrapnel explosives.

probably long enough because you're more likely to get unmanned infantry robots first

flying drones would probably just replace urban aircraft and for some reason while this sounds like useful for ambushes or low priority perimeters…

it ultimately sounds too fucking stupid when you consider carpet bombing an entire town is still more effective.

the only thing stopping anyone from doing this is not having enough support from the NATO or EU allies to be able to get away with flattening away like Shitsrael does

it's useful for smaller operations that are mostly clandestine or if you want to pretend your army is somewhat "hip" and "keeping up with the times"

otherwise it's not replacing actual infantry anytime soon

space shuttle was probs the most expensive instrument of war minus the satellite grids/cost to launch them

dont forget why the shuttle was made, the not so cold war…

>>5771 oh no casualties in war?!?!?!

bloody murica balance yourself out a bit eh

i love the blowing shit up but wtf is trump doing i used to like that guy, wtf is americuh doin lol
only here coz i want 420chan leftypol is gay but not 4chan

>F-35 isn't bloated enough
<now we're making an F-55
KEK

>>5687
/k/ope more

test

>>5764
Bayonets are stupid and gay

Die to my grenade launcher

>>5768
grenadre launcher with a bayonet

>>5768
>Die to my grenade launcher
Die to my bayonet launcher

Okay

1. that shit is not embroidered
2. paraphernalia disconnected from membership to actual organizations is antithetical to socialism

I think the reason why the patch game is so bad on the left is that no one wants to sell shit except for anarchists and succdems. You go on etsy and its all hammer and sickles, the A, pride flags and cringe fight the power shit.
And all of them are shit quality, except for the pride flags. Most of those are merrowed and nice quality which is cool, but thats it.

>>5750
whats the /k/ patch

>>5765
Its usually some variation of this