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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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The petite-bourgeoisie are said to be the class of small merchants which aspire to become big, that grow and follow the insensitive to profit, that flock to fascism when threatened by big capital. However, does that apply to those who aspire or see themselves as aligned with the communist movement? I have spoken to such people, who run pizzerias with no employed labor, the only labor they use is their own, those who grow crops and sell them engaging in individual entrepreneurship, not with hopes to grow but to sustain themselves and live a decent life in regions of poverty. Are they too the enemies of the working class? Are they enemies if they claim to align themselves? Are they to be trusted with giving up their wealth? What we saw with figures like Engels who received great sums of money through his father's business, or Lenin who came from the better off Blank family who's members had owned serfs, or Kropotkin who stepped down from his title as a knyaz, as did Tolstoy in spite of their shortcomings are we to accept them as special abnormalities to be overlooked?
If a petite-bourgeoisie entrepreneur does not employ labor besides his own and only makes enough profit to sustain his middle class lifestyle are they absolutely to be considered enemies of the working class? Should they be given a chance to give up their position as entrepreneurs if it is necessary and is it so necessary in the condition that they work to make a living for themselves? It seems as though a lot of the self-employed would fit into this category, which now compose more and more of the labor market in service of others for personal income in which what differentiates them from the proletariat? It seems like an oddity to me and some would write that this is all illiterate, but if they work to produce commodities to make a living are they not selling their own labor power just like the proletariat, with the only difference being benign as the employer is replaced by varying actors from the market? What differentiates a wage worker in a fast food chain who also works to produce commodities from an individual entrepreneur who does it by himself with no aspiring to growth - for the same sum of money in the contrast between salary and profit. It seems that the only thing that would push them towards fascism is being unable to compete at risk of going bankrupt - being forced to employ labor and grow. And what if they do not wish to do that at all? Has their attitude always remained the same since they were called by name? Or have times changed to consider most modern "workers" as petite-bourgeoisie in the likes of programmers, artists, bakers, street performers, mechanics and such? What differentiates a prostitute which was considered lumpen from these other fields? They all self-employ, they all run on individual entrepreneurship, produce commodities, profit and remain lower to middle class. A food street vendor in India, where he profits no more than the average salary, is he an enemy of the proletariat?
I am curious about this. I don't have the patience to sift through Capital to figure this out at the moment, so I am making this thread to ask, though I will definitely continue reading Capital another time.

With all this written, in addition here is an anecdote:
I argued with this one anarchist, who claimed that anarchists, communists, socialists and such should work with the bourgeoisie against the capitalist class. I asked him why he thinks the capitalist class is different from the bourgeoisie and where he read that from. He told me that he didn't read it, but came to that conclusion naturally. The story being that he started a business to make enough money to support his wife who had an illness which he would not have been able to on a normal wage. When his wife had passed, he had closed down the business. But with the money he earned he had afforded a house to live in, while others in his region could only afford to live in apartments. He had afforded a car as well. So he was better off than most people in his place. I was wondering if I should call him a leech until he told me that he worked all on his own and never employed anyone for a wage. Yet I still wondered if I should call him a fascist over promoting class collaboration between workers and the bourgeoisie. Even so, it seemed wrong.

>>2183638
>insensitive
Incentive*
There might be more errors like that. Ignore.

Recall that in the Manifesto Marx said they could go either way.

>>2183646
If they give up their wealth and aid the movement, yes. But what do we make of them right now? Especially the ones like in the example.
If they claim to favor the movement, but do not understand its principles, what are we to make of them?

Petite-bourgesie are ambivalent but don't confuse them with the bourgeoise proletariate (cops, members of churches, criminal organizations gangs and other fascist cults bribed with super-profits to terrorize the workers).

The national bourgeoisie are similar and should not be confused with compradors who facilitate access to super-exploited markets.

TLDR is that the petite bourgeoisie aren't the same as class traitors.

IMO the main problem with the national bourgeoisie and the petite bourgeoisie is that they are slugglish and indecisive. They tend to slide into academic theory crafting, reformism and utopianism more often.

I mean that is how fascism became popular. We'll put big business under control, but also "protect" you as a small-scale producer. Anarchists frequently sound like little ᴉuᴉlossnWs.

It's by definition reactionary, something they frequently don't even hide with their disturbing admiration for the unabomber. The short summary in the Manifesto is good enough for analysis. They recognize the faults of Capitalism but more often than not their goal is to preserve themselves. Anarchists think that making the virtue signal of not having wage workers under employee just under good faith is good enough, but it doesn't acknowledge the structural conditions that brought modern capitalism's problems, nor is it even realistic with the scale of industry (the local, small business steel refinery). Very utopian, very ideological.

The specific thing Marx found with the proletariat is that they were uniquely alienated from the products of their labor, due to the wage. A small-business isn't alienated from their labor, frequently exploit labor and they are just anxious about being destroyed by bigger business. This is why the classical humanist, "my fellow brother-man" shit doesn't actually work.

>>2184595
The biggest ᴉuᴉlossnWan experiment right now it's China. Even in the aesthetics, they have a star for the small capitalists!

if they aren't exploiting anyone else who gives a fuck? sounds like you're describing an artisan more than a petite bourgeois

>>2183649
Well if it's a matter of them not understanding, perhaps dialouges should be made with them to point them in the right direction.

>>2184860
Artisans are petite-bourgeoisie

>>2184914
Truke, in fact every class other than the bougoise itself is petit bougoise

>>2183638
The petite bourgoise are only useful in so far that they are traitors to their class.
You are right, many petite-bourgoise folks become self employed as a means of survival. And in regards to our economy- I believe this has something to do with their being little MOP to properly seize- most of our workers are some degree or other providing a service, be it in construction, maintenance, shipping, hospitality, sex work or others- we don't produce shit outside of say some for of agriculture- which in it of itself is controlled by corporate farmers and are to some degree family owned

The only exception i can think of to this rule is Australia which still exports steel.

I would say this- so long as petite bourgoise elements seek to maintain the economic model of capitalism, they ain't worth your time. If they're willing to actually contribute their wealth to the revolution or aiding comrades, spread propaganda, or have the money they make go to supporting people in need (such as say, humanitarian orgs providing aid in Palestine) this should be encouraged.

That isn't to say they should have free reign however, lest it turn into class collaborationism. If they are part of a revolutionary org, they are answerable to the party, and their wealth must be used to further the revolutionary program- such as their business being turned into a co-op, nationalised, or communalised- ensuring that amount of surplus goes back into org to aid in other activities.

In short, find the petite bourgoise who are sympathetic towards anti-capitalist sentiments- artists, sex workers, musicians and even a few family restraunts consisting of immigrant diaspora could certainly be sympathetic.

>>2184945
youre a middle class democrat. artisans are literally capitalist merchants

>>2183638
This doesn't really understand the petite bourgeoisie in the context of the more developed monopoly phase of capitalism.

Today, the petite bourgeoisie is more like a startup founder who hopes to be bought out by a large corporation. So a techbro fascist. The man who runs a pizzeria doesn't have dreams of being bought out by McDonalds.

I guess I need to think more about imperialism and monopolies. IMO the main difference with software is that the techbro (who often is not a programmer) seeks to find a new niche in the marketplace and create a monopoly/brand which he then sells to the big companies.

I need to think about parasitism.

>>2185959
>The man who runs a pizzeria doesn't have dreams of being bought out by McDonalds.
Depends. A lot of people are serial entrepreneurs with restaurants. They start restaurants then sell them.

>>2185989
Huh. I wasn't aware. In that case, then the label of petite bourgeoisie applies.

I need to think about compradors and the national bourgeoisie in the context of domestic imperialism. Whiteness is a cartel, and racists are hired guns of the state. Racists are class traitors. Similar analysis applies to other identity groups. It's confusing to analyze whether any particular individual is a cop or not a cop. A lot of the ways people are bribed to terrorize their fellow workers is very mystified. For example, churches provide essential social services and in return the church goers hate-crime gays. Similar analysis applies to many other institutions such as organized crime and fascist cults. For example, the Nation of Islam is fed controlled and part of the paramilitary wing of the deep state IMO.


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