/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Interesting question OP. Bumping for interest. I don't have an answer but I was reading articles written by Burger media from around the time Allende was couped by Pinochet with the help of the CIA on 9/11/73. I noticed a trend. Burger media tends to spend a paragraph or two shedding crocodile tears about CIA coups, but then turn around and blame the leader who was couped for their own downfall. Take for example this NYT article from the day after it happened:

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/12/archives/tragedy-in-chile.html

Crocodile tears:
>Any military coup is a tragedy, representing a breakdown of civilian authority and usually the collapse of government by consent. It is especially tragic for Chile, where sturdy democratic machinery had functioned, for many years and the armed forces had a strong tradition of keeping to their barracks.

Apologetics:
<No Chilean party or faction can escape some responsibility for the disaster, but a heavy share must be assigned to the unfortunate Dr. Allende himself. Even when the dangers of polarization had become unmistakably evi dent, he persisted in pushing a program of pervasive socialism for which he had no popular mandate. His governing coalition—especially his own Socialist party—pursued this goal by dubious means, including attempts to bypass both Congress and the courts.

No mention of the CIA's role in the coup obviously. That kind of stuff only becomes declassified after decades. If you call something a CIA coup the day it happens, you're a "conspiracy theorist." If you're proven right decades later, nobody cares anymore. You and your detractors might not even be alive anymore to comment on it.

We saw the same sorts of apologetics with Yanukovych. He was couped for refusing to take an IMF loan like you said, but this was spun to the public as "being a russian puppet." Because when the EU and Russia both present you with an aid package, and you pick the Russian one because it has lower interest rates, this doesn't count as common sense to washington. To washington refusing a loan from the imperial core countries is the same as being an enemy.

Euromaidan was a popular movement, and while neo nazis weren't necessarily the majority of the people taking part in the demonstrations, they were much more organized and effective, and had the support of the NED, which has served as a trojan horse for CIA operations since the 80s. Yehvan Karas of C14, a banderite, admitted in an interview that neo nazis were able to infiltrate the popular movements and the military and exert an outsized influence on the country precisely because of their organized tactics and vanguardism. He of course neglected to mention the foreign backing. But even the foreign backing is the result of forming a loud and persistent lobby. The Ukrainian lobby and the Israeli lobby in the US are very similar in that regard. Both get a lot of money from Uncle Sam through lobbyist patronage even if it isn't always in the long term interests of the Burger empire itself. Because they form tight relations with individual legislators, sometimes utilizing blackmail and extortion to get what they want.

The IMF can be pushed left.

>>2186947
>a heavy share must be assigned to the unfortunate Dr. Allende himself.
boil every journalist and CIA agent in a vat of molten shit
>>2186961
lmfao

>>2186947
Maidan happened not because of Yanukovich's IMF loans, it happened because 1) Yanukovich has promised to join EU, at least in trade aspect 2) backing down after hearing the terms of that agreement, because such an agreement would be devastating for Ukraine

He was fostering euro dreams, claimed that he will manage to keep friendly ties with Russia, and also was from the South-East, a group at odds with Euro-oriented Center-West

>>2186961
the IMF can be pushed off a bridge

>>2186975
>Maidan happened not because of Yanukovich's IMF loans

here is my source:
https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/walking-west-side-world-bank-and-imf-ukraine-conflict

>A major factor in the crisis that led to deadly protests and eventually President Yanukovych’s removal from office was his rejection of an EU Association agreement that would have further opened trade and integrated Ukraine with the EU. The agreement was tied to a $17 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Instead of the EU and IMF deal, Yanukovych choose a Russian aid package worth $15 billion plus a 33% discount on Russian natural gas. This deal has since gone off the table with the pro-EU interim government accepting the new multimillion dollar IMF package in May 2014.

I think particularly telling is that Poroshenko's government went through with taking the loan after the coup. We saw the same thing with Evo Morales. After Morales was kicked out, Jeanine Anez took an IMF loan, and then when Anez was kicked out and MAS reassumed power, albeit under a different guy, they cancelled the IMF loan but had to pay back the interest it had already accrued in just 1 year.

>>2186982
Sorry, this somehow slipped my memory entirely. Now I remember about the loan and Ukraine choosing worse option out of the two

Several leaders have rejected International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans, often due to concerns about sovereignty, economic conditions, or IMF-imposed austerity measures. Here are some notable examples:

1. Thomas Sankara (Burkina Faso)

As president (1983-1987), Sankara refused to take IMF and World Bank loans, arguing that they would trap Burkina Faso in debt and neocolonial control.

He promoted self-sufficiency, land reform, and development projects without relying on foreign creditors.


2. Hugo Chávez (Venezuela)

Chávez rejected IMF policies and repaid Venezuela’s debt early to cut ties with the institution.

He expelled IMF and World Bank representatives and instead pursued regional financial initiatives like the Bank of the South.


3. Mahathir Mohamad (Malaysia)

During the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, Mahathir refused IMF assistance, rejecting its austerity measures.

Instead, Malaysia imposed capital controls and currency pegging, which helped stabilize the economy without IMF intervention.


4. Fidel Castro (Cuba)

Castro consistently opposed the IMF, viewing it as a tool of U.S. economic imperialism.

Cuba never joined the IMF, choosing to develop its economy independently through state planning and alliances with socialist countries.


5. Rafael Correa (Ecuador)

Correa refused IMF loans and expelled the IMF’s resident representative.

He renegotiated Ecuador’s debt and focused on social spending, infrastructure, and education.


6. Joseph Kabila (Democratic Republic of Congo)

In 2012, Kabila’s government rejected IMF conditions, choosing to pursue financial support from China instead.


7. Andrés Manuel López Obrador (Mexico)

AMLO rejected new IMF loans and austerity programs during the COVID-19 pandemic, opting for self-funded economic relief instead.


8. Narendra Modi (India)

Under Modi, India avoided seeking IMF help despite financial challenges, opting for domestic solutions and strategic international partnerships.


These leaders took different approaches, but they all shared skepticism about IMF loans and their conditions, favoring self-reliance or alternative financial strategies.

>>2186947
Tbh there's never really a scandal when huge amounts of funding are discovered or declassified (outside of people just being pissed off about paying taxes in general) because that makes it feel less like the resulting "regime change" occured because the CIA directly murdered a leader and directly installed a replacement, but rather there was a group of people that are representative of the masses who all recognise the superior values and virtues of US capitalism and naturally want to model their country in America's image. The money therefore, narratively, plays the very small role of just assisting an organic and just movement in informing others that there is hope for change that of course immediately results in the popular movement that topples the leadership.

That people can be motivated by personal wealth, that money can purchase a lot of corruption, that none of the movements that do not receive this funding cannot compete for "air time" are just lost on this narrative despite those all being extremely visible issues with money being pumped into politics at home.

>>2186947
>Yehvan Karas of C14, a banderite, admitted in an interview that neo nazis were able to infiltrate the popular movements and the military and exert an outsized influence on the country precisely because of their organized tactics and vanguardism. He of course neglected to mention the foreign backing.
I listened to an interview with a liberal Russian artist who had participated in Navalny's movement, and an interesting thing is that the question of "nationalists" in Euromaidan came up, he responded like, well, I don't like nationalists but they have a function. They are more organized, militant and willing to take risks. Liberals don't know how to pull security the perimeter and put people in different positions to keep eyes out for the riot police, and organize people in a tactical sense, but nationalists do. He later attended a BLM protest in America and was blown away by the ability of Americans to chant at protests and fire up a crowd, while Russians are bad at that (their slogans are boring and dull and it sounds weird to chant them), but the nationalists do how to chant shit and create energy in a crowd because a lot of them are football fans.

Lmao finally turning to the ai slop just like you crawled back to twitter and tiktok

>>2187113
I have asked the chatGPT a similar question but I do not trust chatGPT, or even deepseek, because neither provide direct sources or quote them correctly. they produce vibes based answers by sourcing massive training sets and rarely do they narrow down to the most reliable answers. instead they mix the countless hegemonic sources of information with the handful of counter-hegemonic sources and arrive at a centrist conclusion which will be inherently asymmetrical. This is the effect of the overton window on AI training. It's even worse when you're restricted to English language sources.

>>2186961
greatest shitpost today

>>2186961
this the shit you hear 5 seconds after telling someone ur not voting lmao

I think your premise is is flawed OP. The type of government that refuses IMF loans tend to also be generally act against western interests. There isn't enough evidence for their refusal to take loans being the main reason they got couped.

Hitler refused money from (((international finance))) and look what they did to him.

>>2187800
so trve!

>>2187795
A careful reading of the OP reveals no premise. They listed 3 governments that got couped after refusing IMF loans, and simply asked if there were more. Maybe they were hypothesizing a causal relationship in their heads, but we have no evidence of that because they didn't explicitly say so. Furthermore, they also admitted there are other reasons to coup governments: "nationalization, Marxism, refusing austerity, refusing union busting, refusing deregulation, refusing foreign direct investment, etc."

OP is "looking specifically for the ones who refused IMF loans" not offering a hypothesis that this is the chief reason governments are couped, or that there is a direct 1:1 causal relationship

>>2187985
wagey in a cagey memes are reactionary since those caged vehicles for Amazon workers were safety equipment

>>2188073
>safety equipment that won't open from inside and will phone home regularly to detect if you're inside wageslaving or not
ok

>>2188073
>>2188427
warehousecorp actually walked back on the project due to negative pr. the media complex is chronically forgetful enough, so of course they bought this and the times we have heard about warehouse conditions since were all during protests. the wage cage is a good meme nonetheless.