Why are neurodivergent and trans folks in America not mass protesting?
The Trump regime has made it clear they want to eradicate the disabled, ESPECIALLY autistic and other neurodivergent folks. RFK has hinted at bringing back Aktion T4 and wants to find a “cure” for autism AKA autistic genocide. With something that serious, why is there NO mass-movement of neurodiverse folks taking action at the moment?
The same goes for trans folks. The attacks on trans people in MULTIPLE American states now fit the definition of genocide. It is nearly illegal to be trans in many places. Again, this is Nazi-like extermination. Why no protests? Why are comrades attacking Tesla dealerships but not mass protesting for trans and neurodiverse rights?
>>2187230Benzo's work pretty well at this. So do opiates.
You'll probably end up a addict though. I've not seen someone self-medicate and not end up an addict yet.
>>2187260nothing worse than when middle class people start appropriating language and fashion, all after they spent a decade demeaning us for the exact things they now like.
We really can't have anything in capitalism.
>>2187270What OP is proposing is just activism, which by definition lies completely outside class struggle.
As a proletarian trans person I don't want to become a proper citizen, I want capitalism out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>2187172>why no protestsThe fuck you mean?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protests-supreme-court-capture-growing-fears-transgender-americans/story?id=116492000https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/2025/02/25/protesters-rally-ohio-statehouse-opposing-transgender-bathroom-law/80301756007/
>why aren't they showing thisIt's for the same reason they won't report Palestenian activists disrupting weapon shipments to Israel- Capitalist media/news platforms will cover the news in such a way where they will talk about "threats" to the system, but never point to its underlying issue or when the people who are targets of that threat fight back violently or disruptively.
It's for this reason why you won't see a lot of mainstream news coverage on the various trans self defence groups or increase in arms purchases by LGBTQ people covered on live tv.
"The system is fine, we just need to get rid of these bad-eggs and everything will go back to normal" etc.
>>2187270>I’m sure trans and autistic people would be terrified of facing street violence from Nazis and cops, so much so that they wouldn’t protest at all.Doubt it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq0noqR49Dg>>2187346Trans liberation is a call to end the systems- that being capitalism, patriarchy and statist persecution- that either systematically marginalise us, leave us for dead or persecute us.
https://neweconomics.org/2021/08/why-trans-liberation-is-a-class-issue
<To give a few stark examples, half of transgender people in the UK are unemployed, with one in three employers saying that they wouldn’t hire a transgender person according to one report. One in four trans people have experienced direct discrimination in healthcare. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Trans + (LGBT+) young people make up at least 24% of the youth homeless population. 16% of trans women experienced domestic violence in 2018 compared to 7.5% of women more broadly.
<Some of this is explained by the unique oppression that trans people face (and, of course, trans people’s experience of these issues can vary wildly based on gender, race, work, disability and other things). But clearly trans people are impacted by the same structures that oppress the working class. We should be arguing for solidarity within the working class across our differences, and that includes trans people.)…
<One is concerned with trans rights, and the other with trans liberation. Trans rights identifies the cause of trans people’s subjugation as a lack of civil and legal rights which prevents us from gaining power and representation in the existing system. Trans liberation identifies the cause of trans people’s subjugation as inherent to the very system itself: we are not experiencing transphobia because the system is broken, we are experiencing transphobia because the system is working as it was designed.
<If we understand that capitalism enforces gender, race, sexuality and disability onto our bodies then representation in that system cannot free us. The idea that we can challenge transphobia by gaining more power and representation within the system is a fallacy because the system is the very thing that maintains oppression.Trans Liberation is the ability to express and identify ourselves without fear of ostracisation or discrimination- to be able to take matters into our own hands without some "elected official" to make decisions on our behalf. It is to end gendered labour, break free from "traditional" gender roles, and to establish a culture which ensures our right to be human.
In other words, the only way to save trans people is through a socialist revolution.
TL;DR trans liberation means resistance and destruction of capitalism and patriarchy owing to how it oppresses us.
>inb4 Western Governments support us >>2187378“Dismantling of capitalism and patriarchy” is every movement.
How does trans activism destroy capitalism? I’m not against trans rights by any means; I actually think the right-wing attacks on trans people are abhorrent. But I don’t see what trans activism accomplishes that every other leftist faction claims to want to accomplish.
>>2187356All you have to say is “focus on class issues and overthrowing the system”
That’s it.
>>2187414Yeah that sorta thing.
>>2187416Good luck if you become homeless then.
>>2187462im not arguing XX and XY/XXY
im just saying that biological sex as a brute fact doesnt say much about what the sexes actually do, and what is expressed in secondary sexual characteristics, the same way an embryo and a man are both the same creature, but are still qualitatively different.
>>2187172>neurodivergent why are the mentally disabled suddenly a crux of leftism? the "neurodivergent" arent going to be fighting the revolution. they got rights that should be respected and all, but come on. if you cant leave the house without being overstimulated tf are you gonna do at a protest, let alone a war?
not totally related but i think its really fucked how autism awareness/outreach has been totally monopolized by the top 1% of autistics. a somewhat socially awkward college girl now speaks of neurodiversity on behalf of the nonverbal kid drooling on himself who needs a handler 24/7.
>>2187487IDK, Lenin always sounded somewhat autistic to me, anon.
I think one has to be somewhat autistic to be the embodiment of theory.
>>2187475secondary sexual characteristics are the pubescent attributes which the sexes develop, and how we nominally define gender
by what the sexes do, i mean in the sense that you cant speak of the biological fact of sex without its social fact also
>>2187509For example, women's liberation directly led to lowering male workers' wages by increasing workplace competition. Men were also not as able to subsidize their existence on the backs of housewives caring for them. It is a good thing that today men are less bought off by the capitalist class to lick the boots of their oppressors. Men that want to return to the old system are reactionaries who want to divide the working class and return to a system of bribery via super-exploitation.
The situation with these identities is messier than national exploitation but it ultimately functions in a similar way.
>>2187172Autism is only a “gift” if you’re high-functioning, high-masking, have high intelligence, and can work without being burnt out and hold long-term relationships with normal people.
Seriously, try working with high needs/low-functioning autistic children and let me know if you still believe autism is a “superpower”.
>>2187385>how does it destroy capitalismThat'd be like asking how the formation of a communist party "destroys capitalism", or how the formation of a Pan-Africanist group "destroys racism". All of these orgs have the destruction of capitalism in mind, but they, like a Trans-Liberation org engage in placing pressure on institutions to ensure the rights of workers and other discriminated groups. The formation of these groups doesn't mean that capitalism dies over night, lol. In terms of tactics, trans-liberation groups can take a survivalist strategy- forming self-defence groups, study groups, spreading propaganda- sometimes with Marxist/ Anarchist or Communalist groups.
Another aspect of it would be the attack of class enemies- one particular strategy has been removing cops from pride events- though this has had varying success. Other tactics would be union action to ensure that there are rights of trans workers to be protected, such as what they've done in Argentina.
https://www.argentina.gob.ar/generos/cupo-laboral-travesti-trans Other aspects would ensure placing pressure on companies via boycotts, strikes, union action and the introduction of laws to aid trans people.
https://socialistaction.org/2020/01/01/trans-liberation-a-socialist-action-resolution/
<The National Transgender Discrimination Survey (“NTDS”, 2011) demonstrated that the experience of workplace abuse is nearly universal among transgender and gender non-conforming respondents:
<Ninety percent (90%) of respondents said they had directly experienced harassment or mistreatment at work or felt forced to take protective actions that negatively impacted their careers or their well-being, such as hiding who they were, in order to avoid workplace repercussions. Mistreatment ranged from verbal harassment and breaches of confidentiality to physical and sexual assault, while bias-avoidant behaviors included hiding one’s gender, delaying transition, or staying in a job one would have preferred to leave. Given the broad spectrum of workplace abuse experienced by our study participants, their persistent engagement in the workforce speaks to a determination and resilience that goes largely unheralded in statistics and discourse about transgender and gender nonconforming people in the workplace. (NTDS, p.56)
<In a majority of states, there are virtually no legal protections against discrimination except in workplaces covered by union contracts. Trans people are also one of the sectors of the working class most affected by austerity measures. In cut-backs, they are among the first to lose jobs and housing, and to see health, welfare, and other social services disappear.Other tactics would include legislation of certain worker fields, such as that of sex-work (which, owing to work discriminatory policies- some trans people often take up as a result) to ensure economic security.
https://doi.org/10.1017/9781108346610.007In other words- Trans Liberation would be direct attack, pressure and/or defence from the institutions of capital with the long term goal of revolution.
>>2187411Again, displaying illiteracy. Seriously, read the articles I link.
>>2187520You sound like you’re making the accelerationist argument here: “take away the lifeline and they’ll become radical leftists”. The problem is, most groups that had privilege and lost it are much more likely to become fascists.
You might as well say banning gay marriage is progressive since it will lead to queer people rejecting the idea of marriage as a whole.
>>2187552Oversimplified. Marx and Engels said proles were the revolutionary class because they were the ones on whose labour society depended, and because the nature of their work was collective they were already conditioned into working collectively.
“They’re poor and miserable, therefore they’ll revolt” is a perfect example of economic reductionism. Even more so if you think revolting against the status quo automatically assumes they’ll revolt in the name of communism.
>>2187528I’ve read these dumb arguments everywhere. It’s all a liberal psyop.
By the way, the flag you’re displaying supports an organization which primarily focuses on class liberation. Notice how much progress they have done regarding the issues you describe? It’s almost like “the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”
>>2187570"Trans liberation groups" - to pick out one part of the stream-of-consciousness babbling - will not raise the quality of life of trans people as a whole. Concessions won from liberals to be threatened with and to fight over are not a victory, but a mild reform, if you can even achieve anything more than symbolic representation or advocacy.
Reform organizing for firstoids in general is now a dead end due to the contraction of the labor aristocracy & petit boug in the core down to a small percentage of the population. It's more than just losing the pressure of the USSR. The USSR didn't continuously unbalance US imperialism in the way that the total development of the global south has. NO MORE CONCESSIONS WILL BE MADE TO YOU WITHOUT A FIGHT. CHANTING FIGHT BACK IS NOT FIGHTING. SMASHING WINDOWS IS NOT FIGHTING.
20% isn't a small percentage of the population actually I meant smaller. Also that number is debatable but the shrinking is undeniable
>>2187580It does read like bait but I'm too autistic not to jump at an autism thread.
>>2187221>>2187346The "autistic acceptance" movement is an absolute joke.
The biggest problem with the movement is, because autism affects us in entirely different ways it's impossible to come up with a unified political program that would incorporate all of us. Hell, the autistic acceptance movement can't even decide if autism is a disability or a benign "difference" like having curly hair or something. And God forbid you ever bring up higher needs autistics who need constant care.
>>2187212>>2187221I've always wondered how autistic people would actually fare in a highly collectivist system like socialism/communism and wonder if they'd actually be worse off in certain aspects than they are now. The one superpower neurotypicals have which autists often lack is the ability to work together in groups. As we know, civilizations are built collectively by millions of people working together with one another over time, not by one guy with a magic wand. Given that autism can highly impair one's ability to work collectively, I wonder how they'd work out in a system where "the collective" is always prioritized. "Do it for the team" is not something an autist responds to positively, because in their minds "the team" doesn't matter and anything done for "the team" is purely symbolic and not worth doing. Yet in socialism "the team" matters a lot. One has to constantly make sacrifices to the collective building of socialism.
Even worse would be sticking an autist on a commune where they'd get zero privacy.
>>2187172Goodness no you got it all wrong.
"Disability" is when you have needs to be provided.But when you want to sell stuff, you gotta make it an essentialized identity. It is, and it is unquestionable because it is intrinsic to the person, empowering, self assuredly true. If you want people to be invested and jump on the bandwagon you need to give them certainty and social incentives. Standpoint epistemology, made up woo woo science… whatever, if you can avoid arguing over it even better. Just assume that you have the backing of the liberal establishment, because you generally will if you are selling something.
Make sure to know he difference. You gotta use the right qualifiers for the occasion.
>>2187672>"Do it for the team" is not something an autist responds to positivelyYou're refering to a lack of social incentive? Civilization has far more methods at hand to make people cooperate, currently through wealth, prestige or making enough money not to die in the fucking streets. Even then autists usually aren't completely asocial, they might just form attachements to a few people, who are still a part of society. If you look back at historical labor, there were almost always professions dominated by autists.
>Even worse would be sticking an autist on a commune where they'd get zero privacy.I don't think most allists would be thrilled with such living arrangements either. It sems to be more of a matter of upbringing and adadaption, or else there would be mass reports of autists disrupting kibbutz life. Although my dad sometimes makes unnerving comments, like that the doors were always open in his bachelor pad, i really don't think many unmarried normoids live in some kind of 24/7 swinger party.
>>2187172>Why are neurodivergent and trans folks in America not mass protesting?Protip: any mass protests would simply be co-opted by Democrats and used as a vehicle to get people to vote Democrat next election.
Those of us who participated in Occupy know that story well. All too well.
>>2187707Autism is, by definition, a social-pragmatic language DISORDER. Why shouldn't disorders be fixed, especially if they make life hell for those who suffer from them?
Either way, if an autism cure did exist (most likely brain surgery because I doubt a single pill would be enough to rewire the brain) it wouldn't be used on low-needs Aspies but on non-verbal higher needs autistic people.
gonna throw this out there without much commitment, but would it be useful at all to undo the merging of asperger's syndrome with "classical autism" and PDD-NOS into a broad ASD diagnosis?
a lot of the more recent problems with how autism should be understood by society, whether it's a "gift" or whatever all come from keeping people with social impairment but average to above average cognitive ability under the same label as people with mild to severe intellectual disability who cannot live without constant support. a lot of autism's public representatives, especially those associated with "neurodiversity" are almost always people who would've been diagnosed with aspergers 10 years ago. granted this wouldn't solve the problem of autism being a spectrum disorder that varies on a person-to-person basis, but it could at least help mitigate the issue of high functioning autists speaking on behalf of low functioning autists, and maybe help high functioning autists integrate into society better than they already have. personally i'm not that invested in this idea, but i've been thinking about it since it popped up in another autism thread a while back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunya_Sukharevaalso if anyone cares about hans asperger being a nazi you could always name aspergers after this woman. she's a soviet psychiatrist who described autism around 20 years before hans asperger did, and she also gets some bonus woke points for technically being ukrainian :)
>>2187712I honestly don't get why other leftists don't see this. So many leftist causes have become completely taken over by libs.
The queer rights movement, for instance, was unquestionably a very radical movement in the beginning. Now, queer idpol is a huge part of the Democratic Party platform. Trans and non-binary celebrities are commonplace now. Chappell Roan is queer, she's the new "It Girl" in pop music.
Autism and neurodivergence are going to be the next idpol taken over by Democrats and largely already are. 15 years ago all the Aspies said: "I am not my diagnosis, don't label me". Now, everyone wants to be defined by their diagnosis, even going so far as to say being autistic informs every aspect of who they are. Why would anyone want to define themselves by their disorder, as if that's all they are?
>>2187714>gonna throw this out there without much commitment, but would it be useful at all to undo the merging of asperger's syndrome with "classical autism" and PDD-NOS into a broad ASD diagnosis? Absolutely, and I wonder how much "autism" would be a super-kewl radlib identity if Asperger's and PDD-NOS were still valid diagnoses. Idpolers love the idea of "autism" being a broad label because they think the vaguer it is the more they can get away with being idle.
>>2187729>>2187735It's not a wordgame or saying that we should accept it or fix it or reject its existence, it's just an obvious point when you realize that "disorder" inherently implies that there is someone evaluating whether or not something is performing to a valuated set of standards.
I didn't say it was bad to fix it, or that it wouldn't be useful to them and others going by most people's preferences.
>>2187172>The Trump regime has made it clear they want to eradicate the disabled, ESPECIALLY autistic and other neurodivergent folks. They haven't.
>The attacks on trans people in MULTIPLE American states now fit the definition of genocide. It is nearly illegal to be trans in many places. This is true, but trans comrades have staged protests against these laws.
You're asking why there aren't mass protests in the heart of DC, I take it?
>>2187688>But when you want to sell stuff, you gotta make it an essentialized identity. It is, and it is unquestionable because it is intrinsic to the person, empowering, self assuredly true. If you want people to be invested and jump on the bandwagon you need to give them certainty and social incentives. Standpoint epistemology, made up woo woo science… whatever, if you can avoid arguing over it even better. Just assume that you have the backing of the liberal establishment, because you generally will if you are selling something. Being queer is no longer subversive enough now that queer people (including trans people) have won a good number of victories in the past 10 years.
Now everyone who feels like they don’t fit in has to be “autistic” or “bipolar” for radical clout.
>>2187172You never see proletarian queers saying this crap and demanding the state to "do something".
It’s very funny to me that people consider feminism, or gay rights, or trans rights, or even neurodivergent rights (??), to be somehow inimical to bourgeois states/capital. There are many states which have granted extensive rights to these groups, and corporations enthusiastically embrace them at every opportunity.
These people are nothing more than moralists trying to give their subjective opinions an objective validity by compelling the state to recognise them. Moralism finds its home in the petty bourgeoisie, because this is the most impotent class, the class which pines most longingly for a ‘fairness’ that will allow it to maintain its position in the face of capital and the proletariat, which makes it even funnier that they identify these schemes with communism, consisting as it does in the rejection of arbitrary moral criticisms.
>>2187743To put this in a somewhat more obvious form: the concept of a
disorder comes from the implication of some abstract human ideal to which all people are to be maintained. The assertion that there is the "disorder" compels action to "solve" a person to make them fit this ideal, or be removed. While I don't think that leftists are going to recommend eugenics programs, it is an answer that only makes sense from the framing of the issue in idealism.
>>2188659>The assertion that there is the "disorder" compels action to "solve" a person to make them fit this ideal, or be removed.So something like bipolar disorder isn’t really a disorder or issue, even when it can cause brain damage of left untreated?
You sound like a New Ager.
>>2188709I believe the point they're making is that it's a "disorder" by which standard, and that standard is set by the capitalist social system.
Take as another example whatever the psychological term used to be for the "disorder" certain slaves had which compelled them to disobey their master, reject their rightful place as his thrall, and run away, which can also cause damage if left untreated. I believe today it's called Oppositional Defiant Disorder and strangely also seems to effect mostly black children.
>>2188736You do realize under socialism there will also be ideals and value systems that everyone will be expected to adhere to, right?
Hell, we can take a look at leftist spaces today and see how they usually demand a very rigid code of conduct. For instance, you can’t say certain words that would otherwise be considered mundane outside of said spaces.
>>2188729There’s a pretty big difference between refusing to submit to an exploiter vs. having a brain that’s so haywire you can barely do day-to-day tasks. I have to take medication for my ADHD or else I become so scatterbrained I can’t concentrate at all.
>>2188749Yes, and I promote some ideas and value systems myself. I'm doing such right now. Have I even once said "i don't want to help people"? I have said several times it would be preferable to help these people. I instead simply embrace this under a framework of rejecting ideal "human" and instead taking on the engineering, scientific framework of asking how to empower people to do more, be more powerful, be less vulnerable. There is no particular decree that we
should. The world simply is as it is and does, and we are just parts of that as it evolves.
>>2188750Correct, but it does not say that the world
should be one way or another. The claim that there "should" be something one way or another is the framework that is used by people for reaction, "cleansing" and such.
If you actually believe that the human species-being is one of progress then you have no need for "shoulds".
>>2188758>If you actually believe that the human species-being is one of progress then you have no need for "shoulds".Incredibly stupid take. Human beings are collectivist by nature and every society demands standards in order to keep the bond together.
Also, you didn't say anything when I brought up my ADHD and how treating it as the DISORDER it is has been the only way to manage it.
>>2188802Where did i say it was good? Tell me.
>>2188801Where did I say that you shouldn't medicate for it? You are trying to read something in my posts that isn't there.
>>2187645>>2187714>>2188340The "neurodivergent" movement is largely a failure for those reasons, yes, but also because it's so narrowly focused on individual grievances that it ignores the larger picture at hand.
For one thing, it promotes the narrative that autistic people and people with other "neurodivergent" issues are only marginalized because their behaviours don't fit the mold of what capitalism needs them to be (allegedly). If they only played by the rules (as they say) they wouldn't be failures. Yet, there are plenty of "neurotypical" workers who have played by the rules their entire lives who still aren't successful under capitalism. Not to mention the notable number of Silicon Valley tech billionaires like Musk, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and others who are all diagnosed autistic. Kanye West, who has a history of serious mental health issues, was a billionaire until he decided to unmask and revealed his fascination with Nazism. Reducing the innate contradictions of capitalism to MY BRAIN ISN'T WIRED THE WAY CAPITALISM NEEDS IT TO BE WIRED is incredibly pathetic. If you were neurotypical, you would also be struggling, but because you don't have a diagnosis you can use to explain away your struggle you won't get any sympathy.
Second, what does this movement actually want? There are autistic activists who will say they want social programs to help autistic people become more self-sufficient, such as getting them jobs. Then there are others who will insist that "masking" is psychological torture and they shouldn't have to work in a system that wasn't designed for their brains; they would rather have a UBI for autistic people only so none of them ever have to work again. Yet, plenty of neurotypical workers wish that they could quit their soulless, low-wage jobs and live off of free money from the government too. Why does being autistic mean that you get permission to live out your fantasy with the system's blessing?
All in all, it's an incredibly useless movement and there's a reason 99% of it is confined to the internet. Angry autistics may rant a lot on Twitter or TikTok but their political efforts have gotten nowhere, and for good reason.
>>2188801>Human beings are collectivist by nature and every society demands standards in order to keep the bond together.Yes, sciences take on ethics rules as part of their historical development, but the sciences don't try to base them on platoinc ideals of what should and should not be.
Please try to keep up.
>>2187172Trump is currently deadlocked.
Any momentum would cause compound consequences for Donald.
>>2189368Hi there. The idea that you are not killing autists by maintaining societies in which we cannot participate meaningfully is asinine. I can’t comfortably enter most buildings due to the quality of light. Most public places are full of random and violent outbursts of noise from low quality speakers moving about randomly. Life itself is sustained by an increasing number of apps with myriad login credentials, on hypnocubes that exacerbate my trouble with organizing my focus against an industrialized backdrop, and any hope I have to live in a stable way is being solely provided for by a nebulous entity promoting calm tech.
Respectfully, I will wait until the trucks roll before I give up on affecting an “neu left” from the emergent global radical right, which promises to its adherents Gramsci levels of global and institutional diversity the likes of which ML komrades have yet to affect.
>>2189368They're not the only ones talking about therapies for autism. It might seem crazy on an imageboard where autism = writing several paragraphs + having deep knowledge on a particular subject, but there are people living with it who want to understand it and make life better for other people who have it.
Also these are the people doing studies differentiating between autism that comes with a particular genetic disorder 100% of the time and general autism. You know the nonverbal people who get used as a weapon against the rest of the autists by saying "well you haven't got it that bad" and of course you think it's some kind of genius energy
>>2189408It depends on the autistic person. Different autistic people have different issues. It's a spectrum of issues, that's why it's called the "autistic spectrum". And they are mostly issues caused by the modern world, specifically technology. For example, some autistic people have problems with:
>Fluorescent lightingThis is a lighting technology that works by "flicking" the light on and off rapidly, most people cannot see this rapid pulse but some autistic people can see it and it severely distracts them and causes them anxiety, whereas other people don't notice it. It's because their brain works faster at processing light or something probably. These autistic people can be accommodated by replacing incandescent lighting with fluorescent lighting instead, which is a constant light source rather than a "strobing" source
>Loud noisesSome autistic people have problems with loud noises, like buzzers that go off, loud intercom systems, or people yelling. These autistic people can be accomodated by making sure they have a calm and quiet work environment and that they are allowed to use their earmuffs during work
>Social problemsSome autistic people find social interactions difficult, it depends on the type of interaction. Gossip and chit chat can be difficult to deal with for example. These autistic people can be acommodated by giving them the basic human respect of not bothering them socially if they don't want to be bothered. And by not bullying them
Employers should be forced to accomodate autistic people in these ways to have a safe workplace environment for autistic people. And these acommodations should extend to everyone too, autistic people aren't special snowflakes here. It's just that they sometimes require more acommodation that is different from what other people require
>>2189440The "age" of trans is "dead"?
I'm trans am I dead? What the fuck are you talking about? I don't think you know what trans means. It's not an "age"
>>2187250This. It's copium
>>2187173Persecution complex.
>>2187221You cannot cure society without curing the person first.
>>2188105Wrong. That's an urban myth used to pathologise both groups as defective.
>>2189440Idk. I think the age of trans as a counterculture is dead.
Trans will be one the norm.
>>2189454>Wrong. That's an urban myth used to pathologise both groups as defective.Little more nuanced than that. Often autistic people have their agency taken away by parents or doctors and are told that if they think they are trans, they just can't be sure because they're autistic, so they're probably just confused
In reality being trans and being autistic are slightly correlated. Trans people are much more likely than the general population to be autistic. And vice-versa.
t. trans autistic person
>>2189435Methinks that artists should require vocational schooling.
We made a mistake putting the same cultural determinants into autistic kids.
We make them think they can have their first love in their teenage years, make them think they can have a chance to party and go out and have summer time adventures or have a cushy desk job just by merely doing the "right" paperwork.
>>2189455I think the golden age of trans is over. I see a lot of formerly trans people de-transitioning, not out of fear of oppression but simply they realized they weren’t trans after all.
Interestingly enough, most detransitioners only decide to detransition after being diagnosed with autism. It’s as if they realized their issue isn’t being the “wrong” gender but being autistic.
>>2189461Or maybe because they're not young and hip anymore, their lives have gone nowhere.
Again, trans people will still exist and stay so permanently. It's just that it's no longer a cute counterculture thing.
Also, a lot of trans people didn't get the physiognomy levels they were looking for.
>>2189463Not true, how about you put forward these supposed points of the retractors being proven right by my statements then
Reality always overcomes narratives. If they hate autistic and trans people, you can bet they hate autistic trans people more.
>>2189462it was rly fun being punk rock when it wasnt yet a democrats front and actually sitting around driking beer with people.
I dont wanna - be all gloom and le wrong generation, but - i think whats coming back soon, and we all smell it kinda, is a return of offline. Not totally offline, but chilling with people, not scrolling
Damn I hope so.
>>2189467You claim that autism and trans go hand in hand.
That makes no sense unless you're using it as a patronizing remark.
>>2189468This mentality is why punk failed.
You're too obsessed with having an antagonist image
Rap suffers from the same fate
>>2189333>>2187212>>2187523>>2187645>>2187704>>2188078Autism is real and is a serious problem.
However most people who whine about genocide of autism are often people who aren't autistic or are high functioning.
>>2189485I never understood why people think that autism is some kind of "quirky" personality or some form of "superpower", 95% of the autistic people I've met in real life are low functioning and need daily help to negative life, this idea of autism being some kind of "quirky" thing I've see in the "anti-psychiatric" movement or those "mad pride" people that think that having mental illness makes them special or something, the danger of that type of think is they start to normalize dysfunctional behavior or even alright justify people doing very dangerous things like violence or self harm behavior in the guise of "he he he you don't understand! mental illness is not bad!"
Fuck mad pride and fuck anti psychiatric people, they are delusional at best or downright dangerous to other people at worst, they should be lock up in a mental asylum.
>>2189516This is, as is often the case, a problem of language. Autism is not one monolithic condition, it's a spectrum. Even the official diagnosis according to the DSM is "Autism Spectrum Disorder" and baked into this is the word "spectrum" which means it can apply to a wide variety of people. Specifically, it includes both high and low functioning people, and everyone in between.
While this is inclusive of all the varieties of how autism can manifest, it results in confusion. People who advocate for cures for "low functioning" autism, where those afflicted have serious life difficulties, look at those advocating for the legitimacy of "high functioning" autism as an expression of neuro-diversity deserving equal rights and consideration to everyone else, and even in some cases providing unique cost-benefit analysis regarding their interactions with society, with disdain.
The problem is that the same word is used for both cases
On the contrary, calling someone "low functioning" is itself also a spectrum. Is someone with severe light sensitivity or sensitivity to loud noises "low functioning"? Well, that's environment dependent. They will be low functioning in an industrial manufacturing plant where loud noises are the norm. But in a quiet classroom or work environment they may not be low functioning at all. That's why it's a spectrum
This hostility you put forward towards "high functioning" autistic people and those that advocate on their behalf misses the point entirely and I think you should have a more nuanced view.
>>2189524No, I don't have problem with high functioning people actually defending the rights and making point of humanize low functioning people with problems. I should have been more clear when I said above, my main beef is with some segment of people that deals with mental health activism trying to normalize dysfunctional behavior, not only about autism, but other mental issues too, a dysfunction is named as dysfunction for a reason, is not a "different normal behavior" or "some other form to experience the world" is genuine problematic away to interact with the world around, many of those people don't actually have to interact with for example: borderline man that would kill you if you try to leave them, psychopathic woman that would accuse of you rape just to fuck your life, extreme schizoprenic man that set house on fire because of voices in his head. You can't fuck normalize this kind of behavior because those behavior is just dangerous all around, it's stupid.
>>2189516They internalised the pseudo intellectual sympathetic portrayals of artists and scientists who had mental illness or were just antisocial in general.
Alot of these people aren't neurodivergent at all.
They just have a lot of petulance against others.
A mad case of main character syndrome.
If these people were to deal with actual nutcases directly, they'd kill them out of annoyance.
They'd write up scathing pathologising posts about them.
>>2189535This.
It's the same logical fallacy of the left rationalising female sexual hypocrisy or awkwardness in youth.
Or how everyone, regardless of orientation, glorifies war and poverty as character building
>>2189535>its not a "different normal behavior" or "some other form to experience the world" is genuine problematic away to interact with the worldi dont disagree i just think that when people say autism is "different normal behavior" they are referring to high functioning and asking for reasonable accommodations analogous to wheelchair ramps to make life manageable. i think the reason they might get mad at the things you say is because if im reading this correctly you when you talk about stuff that is not "different normal behavior" you are talking about low functioning and bracketing these two categories as different types of people when more accurately low function is a sort of learned behavior trauma response and enacting the types of reasonable accommodations high functioning autists ask for and promoting awareness and education will reduce the amount of people who experience certain traumatic triggers in early childhood and as a result become non-verbal or violent because it gets them their pudding and quiet time. ultimately the answer has to be anti-capitalist though because fighting this is like fighting crime which is mostly a product of environmental factors brought about by capitalist privation like poverty. maybe there are certain people that a predisposed to becoming permanently disabled by autism no matter what but i think there is evidence that it would be significantly less then there are under the current system. two kids with the same genetic markers - one with two available parents in a good school - and one with a poor single mother who smacks them around - are going to turn out different.
>>2189553>"anti psychiatric" Thats really a whole different topic. Szasz is based and even somewhat Marxist in correctly identifying certain "mental disorders" as legal justifications for seizing property. Psychiatry isn't really a science its a bourgeois disciplinary system for workers. SSRIs supposedly balance chemicals but this is completely not true. They work but we have no idea how, and the chemical imbalance hypothesis puts the emphasis on the individual, rather then correctly identifying capitalist alienation, that is your environment, as the primary driver of depression. Psychiatry is just new age drapetomania or hysteria.
>>2187250>>le ancient wisdomits genetic data. been with us for >3 billion years. there could be some factor that selects for autism as a benefit. maybe they will be spice navigators. we just dont know. what if culling the autists forecloses interstellar travel? why risk it
>>2188115>Why do people make such a big fuzz about it Because the term is invented in academia and spread first and foremost through the managerial class and their aspirants, it is curious that you conveniently skipped this background.
Of course, i do not want to be too harsh on the radlibs. The Right is also driven primarily by bourgeois and managerial aspirations, and nothing illustrate this more than DOGE and their luminaries like Elon Musk and their obsession with government efficiency, not to mention all the other Deep Right obsessions with esoteric race science and raw meat asshole-sunbathing masculinity that confuses and disturbs every GOP voter that is not part of the managerial stratum and their terminally online twitter followers (sounds familiar? This is the exact same dynamic you see with radlibbism).
My point is not that we should reject everything coming out of the managerial class, i'm not going to be a Klansman just to own le libs, but that we should keep in mind the class divergence between the professional class and the broader working class when we meddle into culture wars territory
>>2193055It's extremely relevant to criticism of psychology + psychiatry + therapy as a field and the ideas percolating through the discussion surrounding it. Which by the way includes the subjects of its study and treatment. People presenting these ideas in a way you find cringey doesn't give you license to mischaracterize them even further.
There are many "issues" perceived by people on this site that could be solved by doing literally anything other than cataloging "major social media trends" (getting mad at posts) rather than relating everything back to those trends you nooticed and getting mad when people point out you drove yourself up the wall for no good reason.
If you paid any attention to the genetics research around autism you might have an inkling as to why different autistic people have different needs and advocating for themselves isn't a threat to treatment for people with high needs.
Speaking as someone with low needs whose cousin died stuck at the age of 12 mentally of a genetic disorder that also gave her autism, you can go fuck yourself. You WILL respect the antisemitic autism plushies. You WILL submit to the authority of the woke stimtok mob
>>2192814>Realistically, what can autists actually do?Complain on TikTok and Twitter all day.
That's it. What political solutions do they really demand for their problems? Nothing.
>>2196377Correct. It’s all about “masking”, complaints about why individuals weren’t diagnosed sooner, attacking people for not letting autists be their “authentic selves” (notice the extreme individualism), that kind of thing.
There is never a political solution. Just “treat autistic people like theyre a bunch of injured children”.
>>2196384>There is never a political solution. Just “treat autistic people like theyre a bunch of injured children”.I think everyone realizes eugenics is inevitable at this point given CRISPR and science finally being able to identify the genes that cause autism. You can’t stop this. Like others have says, autists aren’t politically organized enough to be effective and even if they were there’s no way they could stop science from advancing.
Designer babies are inevitable. Zapping out autism genes is inevitable. The best we can do is simply give autistic people who exist now proper services. There’s no use in making “autistic” a political subculture.
>>2196484>>2196506My 17-year old brother has Down's. My parents are Evangelicals and refused to abort when they had the chance, so now we're stuck with him. He has the mental age of a kindergarten-aged kid, frequently shits himself, is huge and is prone to rage fits, bursts into anger at the most random times, and spends at least two days out of the entire month at the doctor's due to his poor health. The sad thing is, once my parents get too old I'll be the one to care for him. I'm 24 and lived my entire life essentially taking care of my brother. I still grieve the childhood I never had. Meanwhile, my parents are both in denial about their decision to keep and raise my brother. They blow off all the hardships we've faced dealing with him because "every child is a blessing."
I know anti-eugenics is in fashion now and many leftists would say you should never, ever abort for Down's because it amounts to ableism, but these people have no idea what goes into raising a kid with that disability. Down's isn't like Asperger's or ADHD. It's far more severe and comes with way too many comorbidities. Plus, life expectancy for someone with Down's is pretty low, even 5% of babies with it die within their first year of life.
A lot of people will argue that you shouldn't abort for Down's because "if you can't raise a disabled child you shouldn't be raising any child" or "any child has the potential to become disabled" but these statements are fallacious. If a used car salesman was trying to sell you a car that was visibly in bad condition and almost guaranteed to get into an accident, and you rejected his offer, and he said: "well, any car has the potential to get into an accident" you'd see through his bullshit immediately. It's the difference between a 100% guaranteed hardship vs. a 1% chance of hardship. People who choose to terminate for Down's would be described as risk-averse and the ones that didn't like my parents chose to welcome the uncertainty that comes with it.
So my advice: don't believe the "eugenics" argument if faced with a prenatal diagnosis. Down's isn't a good thing and those of us who were forced to deal with it will confirm that.
>>2196851Not him, but if I was forced to take care of a disabled sibling I would flip my shit. I never signed up for that job, my parents forced it on me. Part of anarchism is the right to withhold consent when you do not believe the situation you're in is just.
>Your capitalist indoctrination makes you see your sibling as a burden I don't think you understand how difficult taking care of the disabled can be. You know how hard it is to take care of a baby? Imagine that but the "baby" is a grown adult.
Also, what if I don't care about being compared to a "mere animal"?
>>2187172>Why are neurodivergent and trans folks in America not mass protesting?Ask yourself why they aren't and what that says about the.
If they truly believe they're on the brink of outright eradication, wouldn't they be taking to the streets and mass rioting like you're seeing now in Serbia and Turkiye?
Obviously, they don't feel the situation is urgent enough for them to actually fight.
Also ask yourself why the American left has put so much stake in trans people and autists to lead the revolution. You barely hear about autistic issues anywhere else in the world but in America and the other Anglo countries.
>>2196948Siblings aren’t entitled to my labour just because they’re siblings.
Besides, a grown adult is allowed to say no. His parents can try to force him, but in the end it’s his decision as a consenting adult.
>>2196942Being compelled to do a job you don’t want to do that’s going to ruin your life and alienate you from others is a perfectly unjust situation. He didn’t choose to have a disabled sibling, his fundamentalist Christian parents did. Why should he have to clean up after their mess?
The disabled aren’t entitled to my labour just because they’re disabled. Being AuDHD doesn’t mean I’m entitled to treat my boyfriend like a slave.
>>2197148Families are a spook. Why do for a blood relative that you wouldn’t do for any random person?
And again, if I’m being compelled into a LABOUR situation that is unjust to me, I’m allowed to withhold my labour. There is nothing “communal” about being forced to take care of someone you don’t want to care for. Free association is a huge part of anarchism.
>>2197166>Why do for a blood relative that you wouldn’t do for any random person?A better question is how can you be expected to do anything for your community when you won't even do anything for your blood relatives? The actual reason is that blood relations typically compel people into closer association via proximity, which is why in most healthy families and communities these are the closest social bonds apart from maybe romantic ones. Obviously that's not a hard rule, you're not obligated to sacrifice everything to a person who is an asshole to you just because you're related. Conversely you can have a chosen family which I would say you owe the same obligations to. However most people don't have that sort of beef with most of their relatives.
>if I’m being compelled into a LABOUR situation that is unjust to me<How dare you suggest I HAVE to work to feed my children and sustain my community, you fascist!Anarchists not beating the lazy NEET allegations.
>There is nothing “communal” about being forced to take care of someone you don’t want to care for.Anon caring for others is literally the entire basis of anarcho-communist thinking. The entire concept falls apart if people don't contribute to the wellbeing of those around them. Again, if you won't even help your family then how are you going to help sustain an entire community? How can any of this work without the core tenet of mutual aid and each according to ability?
>>2197148>>2197182If I understand it correctly, the underlying concept of doing anarchy 'right' is to support every persons right to be self-determining. This would include a right for you to fully and freely consent, or withhold consent, to gifts and support given to others. Yes, mutual aid is important, but the foundational idea is self-determination without coercion or control. It sounds like this anon with a mentally disabled brothermay be under some kind of (internal or external or both) coercion in feeling that he 'must' support his brother regardless of how he personally feels about it. This dynamic actually goes against the concept of anarchy.
Saying 'yes' and 'no' from a place of authenticity makes you a 'good' anarchist. You are free to do the things that are right for you to do. Sometimes that might look like sharing your time and resources, and sometimes that might look like not sharing. Either one is fine.
>>2197202No but you're be a giant piece of shit not to give it yourself absent some legitimate and serious grievance against him.
>>2197198>Yes, mutual aid is important, but the foundational idea is self-determination without coercion or control.That's frankly impossible Anon. If your community shuns you for a particular type of behaviour, is it not coercion? Are people justified in total selfishness and disregarding the needs of their community? Communities function not only on the basis of rights, but also obligations. As far as I'm concerned anarchism has never been the right of the individual to leech off of society without consequences. Historically speaking stateless societies didn't function this way, and there would be serious social consequences for a person who did not make the necessary contributions for the good of the whole.
>>2196743>a person is like a used carwow
>"if you can't raise a disabled child you shouldn't be raising any child"i wonder if there is a anti-capitalist solution to that
>>2196851Actually, the main reason so many profoundly disabled people are left abused and neglected is because they’re the sole responsibility of family members (siblings and parents) who have no means of caring for them.
You’d be horrified at how many retarded people are neglected, because their family members are too burnt out to provide them with proper care.
Prenatal testing is a blessing.
>>2196851Animals take care of their disabled
>>2197675This is why mandatory health screening should be implemented for expecting parents
>>2196828>Another random mindless complain against TikTokIt was imageboards who popularized autism into a minstrel show. Who else whines about "muh normies"?
>>2197594This. Unfortunately, LeftyPol has fallen for the "Be fruitful and multiply" meme, just like the right
>>2196851>Your capitalist indoctrination makes you see your sibling as a burden and your parents despite being religious are better than you for avoiding that perspective.The opposite. Capitalism largely preserves itself through the UNCOMPENSATED care work provided by WOMEN. Taking care of the disabled (whether children or siblings) is exactly one way capitalism forces women to stay in the home. Those old school asylums that intellectually disabled people were sent to once upon a time were shut down under Reagan right as neoliberalism began to take off. The same right-wing politicians who want to ban abortion (and prenatal testing as well) also want to cut benefits and services for disabled people BECAUSE they want the families to be 100% responsible.
"Take care of your Down Syndrome sibling and stop complaining" is the essence of patriarchal capitalist ideology.
A lot of early feminists were pro-eugenics for a reason: they didn't want women being forced to take care of weak and mentally retarded children for the rest of their lives.
>>2197738Eugenics isn't this magical solution. A lot of people become disabled either from old age, accidents or disease. Stalin heavily opposed eugenics and would have you shot.
Amazing how many eugenicists we have among "communists" and "anarchists". Shows how serious this site is.
>>2198265>Eugenics isn't this magical solution. A lot of people become disabled either from old age, accidents or disease.You could have just left it at this. But you just had to add:
>Stalin heavily opposed eugenics and would have you shotStalin rejected the concept of genetics as a whole. He is a terrible example to use here.
>>2198275Yes he should have collaborated with the germans on eugenics research instead. People who were into genetics at the time were weird omega racists. It's silly to compare modern understanding of genetics with that of the time period, the soviets weren't flat earthers for denouncing racist science.
My main point is that supporting eugenics has never been a leftist position, very much the opposite. Leftists don't strive for a genetically superior society free of "undesirables". You can't base your ideology around solidarity and absolve yourself of responsibility even for close family.
>>2196851Siblings aren’t professional caregivers and should never be forced into that role.
I’m not obligated to give my brother money so he can go to Disneyland. I’m not obligated to pay for my sister’s hairdresser appointment.
>>2198265>>2197946>>2198334Why are you guys against eugenics but not abortion?
Adults who fucked up their lives through recklessness are allowed to be kept alive and cannot even move or wipe their own asses.
But unborn babies are ridiculous of because they're inconvenient?
>>2197946This
I find it funny that leftists are against eugenics but not abortion
And abortions are pushed by the right to justify genocide of nonwhite people.
(Although I'm not anti-abortion)
>>2198609This. Parents who treat any of their kids as convenient babysitters for the siblings should be revoked of their parenting rights.
This is why we need mandatory background screening for adults who wanna parent.
>>2198609It isn't about disneyland or a hairdresser though, now is it? If you had a sister or mother who couldn't feed or clean themselves you should probably not want them to starve in their own filth. Your lack of empathy towards even your own family is why the poster called you fascists.
>>2198619You're just assuming people's opinions on abortion, trying for some gotcha. I do think abortions should have limitations like China forbidding aborting daughters.
>Adults who fucked up their lives through recklessness are allowed to be kept alive and cannot even move or wipe their own asses.What an insane take. Most people do not become disabled because they are "reckless". They can get dementia, or get hit by a car or literally infinite causes beyond their control. Even in the case they would be at fault, say they're suffering after a lifetime of smoking, you should still provide them comfort, because we live in a society you misanthropic freak. Do you tell your mother she shouldn't be allowed to be kept alive when she can't care for herself anymore?
>>2198623Number one priority for communists: deciding who should be allowed to procreate. Very different from the nazis or fascists in general. No contradictions!
>>2198738>Lmfaooooo too much philosophy buddy.NTA but what do you think you're adding here to the conversation, exactly?
>>2196928>Idk, I know people who are psychologists that are critical of the way psychiatry operates. IME that's most of them.
>>2196851>Your capitalist indoctrination makes you see your sibling as a burdenEveryone says this until they're the one doing the work to care for the disabled.
I'm sure that reading loads and loads of critical disability studies will make taking care of a baby in a 20-year old's body much easier, right?
>Taking care of disabled people is one way humans show they're better than mere animalsWho cares?
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