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>>2187643JD Vance Ridicules Protesters: ‘Don’t You All Have Jobs?’
<Vice President J.D. Vance took aim at protesters at a manufacturing event in Bay City, Michigan, where he touted President Donald Trump’s economic agenda. Vance, who was speaking at Vantage Plastics, had little sympathy for people outside the venue who were carrying signs with messages like “Protect Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.”
<In fact, he suggested their protest was due to a lack of better things to do. “It’s a cool afternoon, on a Friday, and don’t you all have jobs?”
protesting is assumed (without proof) to be a failure to "get a job" in a mode of production that necessitates unemployment and a huge reserve army of labor (a material reality that is deliberately ignored at all costs). This (unproven) assumption of joblessness on the part of each and every protester (despite the fact that they are protesting at the beginning of a weekend, possibly after getting out of work) is furthermore a personal moral failing, even while the economy is in a recession, and even while jobs are being deliberately cut if they are deemed "usless" (not profitable). This coming from, of all people, a government bureaucrat whose claim to fame was writing "Hillbilly Elegy."
>>2190773Everything about Hillbilly Elegy is fraudulent and the fact that liberals fell for it hook line and sinker says a lot. Same with them treating Elon like Real Life Iron Man for so many years.
Monsters of their own creation.
>>2190775ICE is just casually deporting any legal immigrants they find now and shipping them off to get tortured, and openly defying the courts telling them to stop.
Brutes in plainsclothes randomly kidnapping perfectly innocent people and permanently ruining their lives and their families' lives.
There's no reason to believe they'll stop with immigrants either.
If I had claimed during last year's election that Trump would do this I'd have been called insane. We're in the worst case scenario.
>>2190743Do you guys have decision points where if x happens. You leave America? Definitely leaving if war with china happens. And i try to keep an eye with developments on this.
We need a way to propagandize people in a way that can't be censored maybe meshnets?
>>2190790it might be too late to leave (legally) if war with china starts
anyone leaving will be suspected of harboring enemy sympathies, etc.
unless of course they're a capitalist or diplomat
>>2190786bruh it got rave reviews from liberals, it even got a film adaptation starring Glenn Close (apparently dogshit but still).
Everyone hates it now because of Vance's politics and him generally being a weirdo scumbag, but it was part of the mainstream at one point. In the same way that Elon was showing up in Iron Man 2, The Simpsons, Rick and Morty, etc. Then they took advantage of their fame to enter politics. Albeit Elon seems to have a much stronger cult following than Vance, even rightoids don't like Vance.
Obviously Vance/Elon had their critics even at the time but they were on the fringe.
>>2190799(from 2018 btw)
>>2190798>This is progressing to something even worse.agreed. it was always getting worse though. we can talk about rates of change but then we're just doing calculus
>>2190790Where am I going to go?
>>2190797I would like to say this is why I'm staying, but I don't know that I'm that strong.
>>2190790I don't really have the resources to leave. If there was genuinely a civil war and other countries started accepting refugees then maybe but my life would have to be at serious risk.
I would rather have balkanization personally.
>>2190790Got a friend with property innawoods up north who basically said if shit hits the fan its open to all of us, most of my buddies said that's their plan. As for me? I dunno. Can see myself doing something stupid and getting arrested or otherwise killed.
If we get full on fascism, or war with China, I don't really see myself as having good odds of surviving. But hey, who knows what happens? I'm sure there was probably some dumbass like me in revolutions throughout history who'd end up surprised at what they're capable of. It's all in fate's hands I guess.
If I do die though, I just hope I'll have done something to earn it. Helped someone who needed help. Protected something worth protecting. There's some old dudes in the CPUSA, and y'know some of them were some real hardcore believers in Communism, I think there was this one who passed a few years ago that got literally tortured by South American death squads. That's fucking courage. If I could show half of that commitment to my beliefs then I'd be happy.
>>2190783Liberals have been doing this forever, tbh.
Operation Wet Back deported a ton of legal citizens and they were known to give Mexicans kerosene baths at one time. Liberalism is just as brutal as any form of fascism and I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
>>2190853Colbert tried to warn us. Russia is putting Russian penis in America holes.
Also Trump put his penis in the statue of liberty and not she's pregnant with Trump's bastard.
>>2190891>Not Europe. they see us as disgusting mutts whose only purpose is to be their body guard against the third world.
incidentally they see ukrainians and israelis the same way.
>>2190804Drew Fatlou don't have bad genes he's just fat as fuck in a true med fashion. He skullmog that difformed british columbia goblin.
>>2190992They do. Big herbivores basically rape everything they're very dangerous and sadistic because they kill for pleasure not for survival like carnivores.
>>2191029>>2191024He looks a spitting image of a friend of mine who hung himself this winter.
IDK who this Richard is but i think he stole my friends body and is now wearing it a skinsuit. >:'(
>>2191037>a complete lack of anything even resembling a material analysis.I dont understand people that lack this. its so infantile, so childish, so retarded.
Like what the fuck is that kind of mindset. Why the fuck do they think things as if it was a good vs evil movie.
>>2191045this
politics doesnt affect them as much as it does to working class people so they see it as a football match or something, rooting for their team and hoping they score well
>>2191094Me big MAGA cave-person who love sharing meat with tribe! Big orange leader Trump good! Cave-people angry at two-face tribe leaders. When orange leader send strangers away from cave, other tribe scream "bad cage places!" But when smooth-talk leaders Obama and Biden send MANY MORE strangers away, other tribe stay quiet! No scream about cages then!
Other tribe only mad when orange leader do thing. When their leaders do SAME THING but BIGGER, they shut mouth! This show other tribe not honest! They use stranger-people for power grab, not care about stranger-people real problems!
Me want strong cave borders AND share mammoth meat fairly with ALL cave-people! Other tribe leaders afraid of our cave ideas! They fear when we protect cave AND make sure all cave-people get fair share of hunt! UGG!
>>2190993No. It can’t be. It’s impossible!
Ægsisters what do we do now?!
>>2191206And literally the only information the public or really any official has to discern anything about these individuals is… their pictures. And they *might* be hispanic?
So basically they're being deported for looking hispanic
>>2191245>having trauma from kindergartenI predict this guy will be hunted down within this decade. He's one of vilest social media presences I've seen in a while.
>>2191258They really want to prosecute Milley and Fauci LMAO
>>2191306I call Peter Thiel "AIDS john cena"
it's not because he's gay, but because he looks like John Cena dying of AIDS
>>2191324I wonder what % of RW are pvre grift vs. what % are in it 2 win it.
If the former is greater than the latter, we're truly in "paper tiger" territory and need only huff, puff, and blow the whole thing down
>>2190832>poverty in cubaNo such thing. Fake nees.
Cuba is richer than amrrikkka for workers. You are a fascist
>>2191630WE FLY HIGH
NO LIE
YOU KNOW THIIIS
>>2191710He also released a snippet of a new song today:
>THEY TELLING ME IM A BULLY>IM ANTISEMITIC FULLY>HOW CAN I BE LIKE HITLER>WHEN IM A FUCKING UYGHUR>ALL MY UYGHAS NAZIS>READING MEINKAMPF 2 CHAPTERS BEFORE I GO TO SLEEPHe needs to name his new album Meinkampf. That'd be hilarious.
>>2191741CIA Agent George HW
REDACTED took the shot from the grassy knoll on behalf of
REDACTED Oil after
REDACTED DeMohrenschildt, a White Army Russian Expat set up Lee Harvey Oswald with his job at the book depository. Mobster
REDACTED who had links to anti-Castro Cubans than
REDACTED Oswald before his trial.
>>2191746Tulsi is gonna take the fall for this. Trump tied the release to her.
Bondi got absolutely slammed for the pathetic Epstein files release
>>2191726Dark Knight Feelin'
Die and be a hero
or live long enough
to see yourself
become da villain
>>2191763> Cheeto Benito grab 'em by the pussolini
AKA playgolf twittler
>>2191714This sounds like dogshit
Legit thought my phone speaker broke for a second
>>2191785They claim it left, lol.
Not the first time though, they've been targeting them for a year. Remember when the houthi were supposed to find out why you don't have healthcare about 10 months ago?
>>2191792Based JDPON DON.
You WILL go down with the ship white navy pigs.
>>2191796>And by "new direction", we mean "off of a fucking cliff"I think we need to direct all progressive and democratic minded forces to Struggle Against Chuck Schumer.
>>2191795>Didn't they already hit an aircraft carrier anyway? In Arma.
>>2191813Houthi military press confierence said 18 missiles and drones were fired at the aircraft carrier Harry Truemen (idk, like a white knockoff Harriette Tubman?) which then left the area.
The US are seething and saying Iran will pay for any action of Sana'a.
>>2191833You saw how low energy and adlibbed the Tesla advertisement was? Literally was some Nelk boys YouTube tier skit
It’s over
>>2191787>>2191731It was the progressive era so you know there was some bow tied sales guy at a world of tomorrow's fair going
>see chap soon we we can create renewable source of women with modern technology!God I love this country.
>>2191829The Right's pretty much hungry for any kind of intellectual and so they celebrate conversions, while the Left is more or less built around shame and atonement so the only people who'd watch a "why I left the right" style thing are the people who'll demand increasingly obscene examples of self-flagellation just so they can say it's not good enough.
Like that's the thing, the Right likes to quickly embrace anything and everything that'll make them "look good" even shit that wouldn't. It's why you've got shit like Sam Bankman Fried who was thinking of making a "THE WOKE LEFT CANCELLED ME!!!!" turn after he got caught for his crypto scams. You say "I'm right wing now, the Left is crazy" and you're in. Meanwhile the Left despises people on the Left and tries to constantly find ways to get them banished. You join the Right and you get told you're awesome, you're great, they're happy to have you. You join the Left and you get told you're a piece of shit who has to say sorry all the time.
>>2191858Punk has been getting new sounds within the past decade, it just 4chins and MAGA fags only listen to three punk bands who were just poster boys for their record labels
>Ramones>Sex PistolsThose are the only punk bands they can think of and they still suck ass.
>>2191872Yep, like it's an easy enough transition to make. Meanwhile you join the Left and you, I dunno, like the fantasy genre?
>"THAT'S FASCIST PROPAGANDA!"You're gay?
>"THE PINK SWASTIKA!"Like vidya?
>"OPIATE OF THE MASSES!"And on and on it goes. It's like that bit about the voter apathy party in Futurama.
>>2191880>>2191324Honestly all you gotta do is keep the spirit of GamerGate alive. Do YouTube shorts. Do a script complaining about how the woke left ruined Dragon Age, repeat ad nauseum for any game that doesn't sell.
>>2191710Ye opens up mein kampf to finally read it
>During those months I felt for the first time that Fate was dealing adversely with me in keeping me on the fighting front and in a position where any chance bullet from some NYGHUR or other might finish me, whereas I could have done the Fatherland a real service in another sphere. For I was then presumptuous enough to believe that I would have been successful in managing the propaganda business.
>more than seven million neighbouring Germans are suffering under foreign domination and a vital artery of the German nation has become a playground for hordes of African NYGHURSyedolf retarded
>>2191846That's the problem of thin skinned retards with no convictions or values who get so triggered by any criticism. And I'm someone who gets called retarded all the fucking time and hate a lot of the cringe things on the left, and I despite right wingers more and with all my heart despite how easy it is to worm yourself into that side
Also once again I am obligated to point out that
there is just more money on the right wing, there is a whole media ecosystem and institutions to lift you up and parade you and spread more right wing propagandapeople forget that
>>2190778Hillbilly Elegy makes me feel vindicated for always fucking hating the "economic anxiety" cope when plenty of MAGA in 2016 were well off retirees in the Villages or just fucking racist and hated literally any fucking argument you gave them about worker's right, because they'll then fear monger about workers who "Dont" deserve it(black people and immigrants)
JD Vance was propped up as this MAGA whisperer who truly understood why "working class whites"(remember you're only working class if you're conservative) went towards MAGA. The book itself? Sucking himself off and fucking shitting on everyone else around him. No one fucking talks about how he's a living embodiment of affirmative action fucking helping someone make something for themselves. But of course people don't talk about that, because affirmative action is for those gross shitskins.
And then you find out that his whole career was fucking built and funded by PETER THIEL
>>2190786JD Vance showed up on all the lib blocks in 2016 to talk about the book. Establishment libs promoted it hard. And on that note
>>2190777>Seems like rightoids got the memo and libtards didn't.Libtards got the memo and fucking burnt it and then shuffled their feet and twiddled their thumbs about how they HAVE TO they JUST MUST suck the cocks and cunts of Sinema and Joe Manchin.
Libs NEVER wanted to fucking fight. They can't cancel student debts because muh whatever, but Trump can literally fucking deport people with no proven criminal background and send them to concentration camps. Shumer and all those cucks are complicit
You're right on the constitution, no other country worships this shit like it's some kind of sacred text. Probably because the US or their pawns barged in and wrote their constitutions for them
>>2192043Listening to any fucking right wing commentator made me realize that. No skills, knowledge, or charsima and you will still go places
And people still think you just need to debatelord better against fucking retards who will just have a stroke in front of you
>>2191583Those type of uyghas are some of the most annoying cucks on the left
Annoying semantic bullshit that essentially just tries to soften up what's fucking going on and then you get occupied arguing about that. Doesn't change that you're going to be fucking burnt to a crisp after this fire
Probably the same type of a duderinos who talk about how we need to reword and cater shit to normies, but not THIS time of course!
Also I didn't know ape posting was still a thing on leftypol
>>2192055>ape postingDo you mean
BABOON posting?
>>2192105Not to be a
zdoomer but nothing good is going to happen anytime soon. Be prepared.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/18/world/asia/china-trump-voice-of-america.htmlI mean this is too much. Trump accidentally does a good thing and dismantles our glowie propaganda arm – literally described by some correspondent as responsible for "spreading democracy" which we all know is a shibboleth for CIA glow nonsense – and liberals are shitting their pants
God how I
HATE liberals
>>2191746I was going to say, any time they release files on Kennedy, the important shit that might incriminate people is blacked out.
Another nothing burger
>>2191987I know we shit on leftist movements in the USA for being useless, for good reason, but American "anti-war libertarians" might be the most pathetic cucks on the planet. Or at least the ones that actually believe that shit. I'm not sure why Ron Paul would LARP about this given that he doesn't have a career anymore.
They sacrifice everything they claim to believe about foreign policy and social policy in favor of the almighty tax cut.
>>2191943>but Ian Curtis was a thatcheriteWTF i'm glad the cunt hung now.
why do you hurt me like this? :(
>>2192257jfk files status?
egg status?
honkoid status?
gaza status?
magacom grifter status?
ukraine status?
recession status?
revolution status?
demokkkrap controlled opposition status?
>>2192328Iraniauyghs
Fuck this worldfilter, this is like Ponychan all over again
>>2192328>le consequences!This stupid bitch wont do nothing.
Iran nukes 2stronk
>>2192376it was especially common in the 1600s and 1700s. Read this passage from Benjamin Franklin concerning settler-colonialism
>The being conquered; for the Conquerors will engross as many Offices, and exact as much Tribute or Profit on the Labour of the conquered, as will maintain them in their new Establishment, and this diminishing the Subsistence of the Natives discourages their Marriages, and so gradually diminishes them, while the Foreigners increase. >Conquerors>Offices>Tribute>Profit>Labour>Establishment>Subsistence>Natives>marriages>Foreignerssource:
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-04-02-0080all of these are capitalized despite not being at the beginning of a sentence.
>>2192380idk if it's trump's style or if he really is trying to echo the founders. will smith's son does the same thing on twitter
>>2190777>The US Constitution is genuinely dogshit and should have been replaced after the Civil War … We need a Second Reconstruction.My LARP / Hearts of Iron mod in my head is the New Reconstruction Front (NRF), a communist/socialist-led popular front of democratic, patriotic and progressive forces to achieve a radical extension of democracy in a new era. The libs need to reappropriate Thomas Jefferson. If the government isn't serving the people? Abolish it and create a new one. Governments need to be afraid of their people, not the other way around. But the liberals are afraid of Trump and the Republicans. But now they control the courts so, oh no, sigh… that's how they are. Because they exist to manage their base. If the Republicans understand anything it's that politics is a struggle for power, that the state is a repressive force and not neutral.
>>2190786>No one fell for Hillbilly Elegy. It was one of those Republican gift bag fillers they gave out at CPAC to game the best sellers list.>>2190795>bruh it got rave reviews from liberals, it even got a film adaptation starring Glenn Close (apparently dogshit but still).I thought the audience for it was originally NPR/NYT libs. He got his start as a public intellectual on FrumForum (David Frum's website). He appeared on MSNBC. It was part of that whole genre of "MAGA whisperers" to assuage liberal guilt by reifying the very thing that caused the guilt in the first place. So it'd occasionally hit on a real issue (teen pregnancy, opioid addiction) and then use a lot of rhetorical twists and turns to make those factors a matter of personal responsibility according to J.D. Vance, the reasonable, thinking-person's reactionary who didn't vote for Trump. It's not ultimately the fault of the capitalists and politicians who have screwed over Appalachia, it was the people who got screwed. It's not like liberals are going to know any different. After all, those people voted for Trump, so they must be complete morons irredeemable to any good policy to begin with.
Meanwhile the exceptional people who overcame structural disadvantages through talent or luck (like Vance) are exemplars to be used to shame the rest. "If I could get to Yale law school and work for Peter Thiel then anyone could if they just wanted it." It's an inspiring superhero origin story really, about how a poor white boy who is more self-disciplined and, consequently, morally better than everyone around him (particularly his mother), grew up to have a seat at the table with the wealthiest, most destructive assholes in the world! Ron Howard (director of bloodless, forgettable, middlebrow schlock) spent $45 million of Netflix's money to make a movie about this!
>>2192463him: they ruined our countries funding rightwing paramilitaries
you: wow this is so hecking CORNY 🤓🤓🤓🤓
>>2192272>half of everyone I know does that. Americans are very … let's just say they innovate grammar rules. For some reason everyone has started adding possessive apostrophes when pluralizing an acronym too. Like all the time I see people do CD's, ATM's instead of CDs, ATMs.I agree but also i want to try making a glow post out of this. Okay *ahhim*
<you stupid hazbin hotel! The real American proletariat has no need for bourgeois grammer rules. Bourgeois hazbin hotel grammar is inferior to proletariat scientific socialist grammar. Something something youre an anglo british loyalist.
>>2192187Reasons I think this might be becoming a growing trend:
>Israelis invoke the Holocaust whenever they stub their toe while trying to murder an infantSimple enough. It's like a person who constantly complains about various illnesses or disorders for, I dunno, not cleaning the house or going to work. After a while you think they're just lying to you.
>General deconstruction of historical narratives.If the growing narrative is that the U.S. is morally equivalent to Nazi Germany 'cause of its history, then why care about the Holocaust? After all, if every country is evil then who gives a fuck if the Nazis were doing evil shit in particular? Shit, Israel is doing its own holocaust right now, and they like to position themselves as the victims of the previous one, so it seems like a bit of genocide is just what countries do.
>The Right simply has a better network of speaking to young people, especially alienated young people.The Right's got plenty of podcasts, and it's pretty good at reaching out to subcultures and enmeshing themselves within them to preach its ideas: sports, video games, hobbies, etc. Maybe you got into Rogan because of UFC or what have you, but then he starts inviting all these right wing guests on and next thing you know you get powerful right wing vanguards festering within various subcultures and interests. Important to note is that this can feel organic or as coming from within the subculture itself. Whereas the Left always comes across as a kind of invasive species. People not "part of" the culture trying to dictate its terms. This was, unironically, a rhetorical trick that really got steam in GamerGate. You've got people still sneering at the term "Modern Audiences" as something alien and wholly unwelcome, you had this repeated claim that the feminists critiquing games didn't even enjoy playing them and simply wanted to dictate the terms of this thing they didn't engage with. Well now this applies to everything.
You see this pretty easily in stuff like OSR (Old School Renaissance) within the TTRPG community, where several prominent contributors are pretty distinctly right wing and decry liberals as essentially wanting to parasitize their hobby for their political ends. They never start from the position of "we're making right wing RPGs" (at least the successful ones don't) but more "we're defending OUR hobby from THOSE outsiders!"
>The Rise of Black AntisemitismThis was probably the more surprising thing for me, but you've got shit like Kanye and Candace Owens reviving literal medieval antisemitic tropes (Candace Owens in particular claimed Jews would abduct Christian children to drink their blood during Passover) and while White people are pretty sensitive to claims of racism, Black people pretty much get a pass on it 'cause of their history. A Black person can literally say "the holocaust was fake" and its probably not gonna blow up as much or be as crippling to their career as if a White person said it. So you've got certain forms of minority antisemitism which are allowed to fester and coagulate.
I'm sure it's not any one thing, it could be all of this shit working in tandem. Either way it's not too surprising. The more the Right dominates the culture (especially online) the more historical revision of the holocaust will become the norm.
>>2192611Reminds me of "Exiting the Vampire's castle" which has aged like fine milk by opening with radlib defenses of
Russel Brand and
Owen Jones of all people.
https://web.archive.org/web/20131129003704/https://thenorthstar.info/?p=11299 >>2192687Dunno too much about Russel Brand, but if one's interaction with "The Left" broadly construed is just constantly harassing you and trying to punish you for perceived slights, why would you want to stick with it?
Like I said earlier, if you're going from left to right they'll embrace you pretty quickly. The Left is constantly looking to self-filter. So to me it's less an indictment of Mr. Fisher and more proving that the Left has elements which will intentionally push people to the right by being dumbasses.
>>2192647>The Right's got plenty of podcasts, and it's pretty good at reaching out to subcultures and enmeshing themselves within them to preach its ideas: sports, video games, hobbies, etc. … Important to note is that this can feel organic or as coming from within the subculture itself. The Israelis and their minions have also framed their propaganda and targeted it towards a larger proportion of the American population. They were canny enough to tie it into (ostensibly) American values like freedom of religion (Muslims depicted as a threat to that), self-determination ("Israel has a right to exist") and so on. Also creating cultural links between Israelis and Americans. Pro-Palestinian messaging in the U.S. on the other hand, has attempted to appeal more to the worldview of a narrow intellectual and cultural elite – hence the focus on niche terms like "settler colonialism." The emphasis on symbols like the Palestinian flag and the keffiyeh in American protests was and is essentially self-othering.
Of course, America is a land founded on the systematic eradication of its Native population, and most Americans live on land forcibly requisitioned from its original owners, the "settler colonialism" they're talking about, and it's questionable that the majority of Americans – the people who have to be convinced – view this with regret. So emphasizing the Israelis seek to do this in Palestine might actually create another area of commonality and makes them heirs to an American tradition.
BTW, to illustrate this, look at the movie "Delta Force" with Chuck Norris. This is from the 1980s and was directed by an Israeli trash-cinema maestro named Menahem Golan, made a lot of money, and continues to enjoy life on Amazon Prime. The Palestinians are also portrayed as cartoonishly evil and rapidly anti-Jewish and anti-American villains, and Israel as the only true ally of America in the Middle East, which generated no outrage among the population, save for a few marginalized radicals and anti-imperialists. On the other end is "The Death of Klinghoffer," a 1991 opera by John Adams. Has anyone here heard of that? I didn't think so. But it's the closest American culture has come to an endorsement of the worldview of a Palestinian insurgent by portraying the real-life murder of Leon Klinghoffer by the PLO as a natural response to the Israeli genocide. And this left practically zero cultural footprint, and the only people who actually care about it whenever it's revived and performed somewhere are the cultural elite (people who actually care about modern opera are the very definition of this) and (of course) American Jews, who managed to force a revision of the libretto.
>>2192689>Dunno too much about Russel Brand, but if one's interaction with "The Left" broadly construed is just constantly harassing you and trying to punish you for perceived slights, why would you want to stick with it? I agree, but just to specify, Russell Brand was a clown when he was "on the left" and not much needs to be written about him, except that he was a rich celebrity who found that money doesn't buy everything and that "we need a revolution" (peaceful though) that would embrace some kind of pan-theistic mysticism. Also atheists are bad because they deny the existence of the supernatural. The whole thing was that he was basically famous but grappling with nihilism but a revolution is thrilling! Weeee!!!! As you can tell I really don't like him.
>>2192763Not surprising honestly.
We obviously need to focus on the remaining two-thirds.
>>2192620>I honestly don’t know but if you were to force me to give you an answer of the best chances then it would be for libs(the ones leaning toward an actual left) would forgo any pretense of liberal politics and realize that liberalism is no longer useful not just as an ideology but no longer valuable as something practical.Man I don’t even know, the delusion is deep; at least from what I’ve seen online. There was this clip that was making the rounds on reddit of a Chinese city modeled to look like Paris, top comment was “China can build anything except for a functional democracy” queue the updoots and awards. Then comes an edit sneering at people for saying “America bad”.
And like, America’s status as a “democracy” no matter how stupid and wrong that term is does a lot of work. Honestly I’ve said before our relationship to our government is like some abusive family dynamic, and us being a “democracy” is like the abusers huffing “but we’re a FAMILY!” When you call them out on their bad behavior or consider going to the cops. Did they steal your social security number so they could destroy your credit score to buy bullshit? “We’re a FAMILY! You wouldn’t call the cops on family, would you?” Did they beat you senseless? “But we’re a FAMILY, why would you cut off your family?!” America’s government has done more sketchy shit than any other state I can think of in the modern era; and when we look at the fact that China’s government at least seems to do
something for its people, what do we hear? “Well we’re a democracy and they’re a dictatorship!” As if when there’s towns in this country that are at third world levels of development, that magic word, “democracy”, is supposed to be a balm. Chinese police arrest protesters and its “the actions of some tyrannical regime”; American police beat and brutalize and sometimes even kill protesters? Well we’re a democracy, so that’s different.
I’ve talked with at least a few young Chinese Marxists through the party, and I’ve got to say they’re some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. Fuck, I like them even more than most communists I’ve met over here. But liberalism always de facto asserts that there’s something “nefarious” about them. I don’t know what the solution is right now, but I don’t think relying on China can rhetorically work out here.
>>2192708>Delta ForceI've mentioned it on here as the perfect encapsulation of how Boomers think of Israel. Also I might be going crazy but I swear to God, the guys they had to play Mossad in the movie seemed to have a British accent of all things, they didn't really "look" Israeli.
Now that said, about propaganda and all, I'm way more of an "ends justify means" kind of guy, so personally I think stretching a metaphor to appeal to some kind of "Americanism" is well worth it if it strangles support for Israel. You saw a lot of it in the Vietnam war, with Ho Chi Minh using phrases that most Americans would be familiar with (I think the Black Panthers also borrowed phrases from the Declaration of Independence) and in the Korean war you literally had Dalton Trumbo comparing Kim Il Sung to George Washington. Of course today you'll get people screeching "HOW DARE YOU COMPARE KIM IL SUNG TO WASHINGTON!" but something the North Koreans utilized really fucking well was just kind of throwing American ideals back in their face; asking captured grunts why Americans killed innocent civilians, a few even broke and started fighting for North Korea, leading to the myth that the inscrutable orientals developed some kind of brainwashing techniques to use on our poor boys.
Of course these are techniques I think the Left is mostly allergic to, which is a shame 'cause I think it works. Y'know there was this old ad a bunch of Libertarians paid for to try to rally opposition to interventionism, I saw it years ago, but the basic premise was "What if China started building bases in Texas and telling US who we could elect or what we could do?" Sure people on here would probably celebrate that, but it was a great way of reframing things, kind of a classic "do unto others what you'd have them do unto you." I remember also watching this History Channel documentary about the Iraq war that took a real cynical tone, they interviewed this grunt who was told while he's driving if he sees a kid in the road, just run over them, and the dude mentioned he was yelling in his CO's face "Well what would you do if some asshole ran over your kid and kept driving? You'd kill him? SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SOME IRAQI WOULD DO IF I RAN OVER HIS KID?!"
Cynical as it sounds, I think the Palestinian cause could maybe get further if it was more along the lines of: imagine some stranger walks into your home and says its his, if you try to push him out the army comes and throws you in a walled off ghetto in Detroit, then he shoots your daughter, laughs at you about it, and if you try to shoot back he screams that you're just a bully who really wanted his kid to get shot." Make it hit close to home. Make people fucking
angry. Shit, do you know how many dudes in the U.S. have had some kind of stupid Taken or John Wick fantasy? "Man if someone hurt my family I'd fucking destroy them!" Make that someone Israel. Turn the Israelis into the fucking purple-haired screeching bitches that they think college students are. You'll see success.
>Russel BrandNever watched his stuff. To be honest 90% of British whimsy gets on my nerves, and I can't help but chalk it up to Ancestral Blood Memory from all the Border Reivers in my family history.
>>2192860For lack of a better explanation, another way to put it is, member WW2? FDR ran for like 4 terms with some of the most extensive executive powers any US president has ever held, Churchill didn't have elections to keep him in power for the length of the 30s and 40s war effort. Guns, artillery, tanks, missiles and a ton of so called authoritarianism saved 20th century liberalism. These modern liberals are totally divorced from that time period when liberalism was in danger of disappearing(let me use liberal arguments) to communism and fascism. Liberalism because of those foundations and willing to drop liberalism to save itself is the reason you enjoy the liberties you have today. If liberalism is to save itself once again then it must stop it's pretenses and be willing to evoke war time executive powers not just to stop domestic fascism, but to revitalize liberalism through getting rid of the billionaires that have captured out government institutions, we won't win them back by voting for some Democrat, not even Sanders, it could only happen under the conditions of undemocratic powers in order to bring down the billionaires back down to earth and force them to comply just as we did in WW2 and the Great Depression.
>>2192888My goal is to eventually move beyond liberalism though, not to save it.
>>2192891>Dalton TrumboI thought this was an ironic misspelling of Donald Trump at first.
>>2192912>what I was driving at was that there is not some sizable portion of the American population that totally and utterly hates America.Among leftists? It seems most on this board are firmly contrarians about America. America is always bad, garbage, imposters, etc. etc.
>Obviously shit like patriotic socialism and MAGA communism is dumb as hell though.Why tho? I think the main problem is all the people that use that angle are goofy as hell. Part of patriotism is acting with decorum. Barrack Obama is really like the perfect patiotic figure, well most of the time, even that boy is too goofy and and not stoic enough, he kinda represents the fruition of that American dream long prophesied like this guy was talking about:
>>2192905 But America really is racist, so of course there was a huge chimpout when he did everything to bend over backwards and be as non-controversial as possible and now the leader of the "Birther Movement" is president.
But anyways back to the point, fucking RESPECTABLE patriotism sells like hotcakes. It's because it's clowns like Hinkle, Haz, Fuentes, Trump etc. doing it that makes it so clownish.
>>2192900Nah, not a PatSoc; I consider PatSoc or "magacom" to be artificially attempting to impose patriotism on people, which I don't think works either.
>>2192903I think you're right on the money. I also think vicious "Fuck America" shit just comes across as trying to burn your own house down to some normal people. Which of course angers the type of people to say that, the ones who vastly overestimate how much their rhetoric is enjoyed.
>>2192936>>2192939And like where I'm coming from, is the whole:
>America has never lived up to its promise/ideals>But the long arc of history and all thatI agree with you CPUSA anon. I think most of our general American shit is very non-offensive because it's a bunch of platitudes and it's fine to keep using them because they're truisms everyone agrees with. It's really just like Christianity:
>Thou shall not killYeah I think most societies had some rules about murder. Can't really have a society if its ok for anyone to murder anyone whenever they please.
Also luckily, in our religion, we're allowed to reform it, even if difficult.
>>2192876>the guys they had to play Mossad in the movie seemed to have a British accent of all things, they didn't really "look" Israeli.Well that might not be totally unrealistic if Eylon Levy (British-accented Israeli infowarrior) is something to go by (although I've actually never seen the movie).
>in the Korean war you literally had Dalton Trumbo comparing Kim Il Sung to George WashingtonMao was an actual fan of George Washington. One of the early books he's known to have read was some history (I can't remember the title) of various important people in history and he took a particular liking to Washington. Now this was before he was a communist (he wouldn't have read anything by Marxists until at least 1919 because the Communist Manifesto literally hadn't been translated into Chinese yet) and he was also reading works by Chinese reformers who advocated China become a Western-style capitalist country after the Boxer Rebellion. But he was a very well read person… and very well red too (that's a Seinfeld joke).
>Of course these are techniques I think the Left is mostly allergic to, which is a shame 'cause I think it worksMartin Luther King Jr. did this. Like his whole thing was owning the American mythic narrative but reframing what it was, or what it ought to be, which presented a challenge to white America that also split it (divide your enemy) and work within its own psychological terrain. Like "somewhere I read about the freedom of speech and the freedom of association." What was he referring to? He wasn't talking about deporting the white settlers, but demanding white people live up to their own story which they tell about themselves with this liberty and equality stuff, and which offered his enemy a chance to retreat in a way that felt like a redemption. I think that was highly effective in the circumstances.
I think when this stuff can go awry though is in cases of guys like Lyndon LaRouche. I don't actually know why he switched from Marxism to American nationalism (Hamiltonian producerist stuff), but I suspect he might have thought Marxism was just too alien and inorganic, and to make a revolution he needed to phrase it in a patriotic American language. Like he saw anti-colonial revolutions happening in the world, so to make a revolution in America, he constructed a conspiracist fantasy about America being essentially colonized by the British Illuminati, and he could present his own movement as the heirs to 1776. But that was really a fairly arbitrary and reactionary cult that was detached from reality and based on his personal whims.
>>2192920>I think the main problem is all the people that use that angle are goofy as hell. Part of patriotism is acting with decorum … It's because it's clowns like Hinkle, Haz, Fuentes, Trump etc. doing it that makes it so clownish.Yeah I agree with that. Also it's very clearly an overcorrection. I'm also reminded again of Haz talking to the head of the Moscow brand of the Eurasian Youth Union where he was saying the essence of the American spirit is basically Tsarist crown-and-altar Orthodoxy, which the Eurasian guy wasn't buying. You can create a small polemical movement but I think we can basically dismiss it out of hand, it's idealism. It's chaff.
However, Trump is different. He has been referencing McKinley a lot, and his combination of high tariffs and lust for territorial expansion directly recalls that era of the Republican Party. That was the peak moment of imperialism in that all the major Western powers were super-imperialist, and the U.S. at that time went into the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii. The Republicans wanted to turn away from Europe and expand in the Western Hemisphere (the Monroe Doctrine) and Asia as a way of acquiring new land and new markets. This continued into the 1930s with the America Firsters, who – it should be clarified – formed to advocate keeping America out of affairs *in Europe*. But in fact, there were prominent "isolationists" at the time who wanted the U.S. to stay out of Europe but take a stronger stance in the Pacific. A few names: California senator Hiram Johnson, Ohio senator Robert Taft, and also Douglas MacArthur, who the 1950s-era version of Trumpists hoped would run for president.
The John Birch Society after the war opposed the Marshall Plan and NATO, but named themselves after an American spy who was gunned down by Chinese communists (it was own fault tbh) which they were really salty about. It was thanks to Hitler declaring war on the U.S. after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor that a bipartisan consensus formed for American hegemony to expand in both directions. So this tradition is quite longstanding.
>>2192956>Yeah I agree with that. Also it's very clearly an overcorrection. I'm also reminded again of Haz talking to the head of the Moscow brand of the Eurasian Youth Union where he was saying Mmm you … my post so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. I didn't watch that because I don't watch Haz. The cringe overload is too much for me. Especially as he ventures out into the world claiming to represent our country. Isn't he like a 1st gen immigrant? Like I swear to god I can hear his accent, anons told me I was crazy. I forgot what new leaks came out from his cult.
>the essence of the American spirit is basically Tsarist crown-and-altar Orthodoxy, which the Eurasian guy wasn't buying. You can create a small polemical movement but I think we can basically dismiss it out of hand, it's idealism. It's chaff.I'm fucking sure because that makes zero sense. That motherfucking Eurasian guy probably understands America more than Haz. Tsarist? The country that is explicitly anti-monarchy? Like I posted:
>>2192904>>2192897We wrote a song dunking on Britain's cukold, worship the King/Queen(whichever supreme being is living in the flesh that they must devote their life to)song into, we worship the ideals of our country, which is at the root of it, all of us are entitled to a good life:
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.Like I said they're truisms, and intentionally so.
Ok I think this is long enough so I'm going to make another reply to the rest after a break lol.
>>2192989This image is inaccurate.
Turks are not Black.
Atatürk was not Black.
Turkey is not a "Black utopia."
There is no racial conspiracy against "Kangz."
Erdoğan did not "destroy white laïcité devils."
Calls for racial extermination are illegal and immoral.
>>2193005Anyways, I don't know why people say Walt Disney was racist. I met a Black Animator who worked directly under Walt, new him personally, and our small class, it even came up in the Q and A:
>Was Walt a racist?And he was nonplussed. He categorically denied it.
>>2192963who gives a shit lmao
i love it
>>2192949>I agree with you CPUSA anon. I think most of our general American shit is very non-offensive because it's a bunch of platitudes and it's fine to keep using them because they're truisms everyone agrees with.My critique of "Patriotic Socialism" or "magacommunism" has always been that it's fundamentally an overcorrection. If I don't like the constant sniping from Leftists that genuinely hate America and her people, I doubt that, for example, a Black man would like the ridiculous bleating of the "luv it 'er leave it!" crowd. The critique of the Black radical, it seems to me, is rooted in the fact that they were and in many cases still are fundamentally disregarded by their country. They're governed by people who don't give a damn about them, even less of a damn than they give about the poor White man. They've been treated as disposable, as lab rats, and systematically dehumanized for far too long. Asking them to "love America" or throwing a fit if they don't stand for the pledge can only come from a place of extreme ignorance or narcissism. The simple, unvarnished truth, is that Black Americans have repeatedly been failed by the American state. Trying to forcibly impose "patriotism" as a pre-requisite for socialism is an idiotic tyranny that I doubt Black Americans would ever accept.
However, with all that said, I'd say I do genuinely love my country. It's not a patriotism I'd try to "force" on people, that's absurd. Rather I think the goal should be to recognize that Black Americans have been failed, and any new America that emerges must inevitably try to rectify that. If there's one thing that I think can be taken from Trump's growth among minority groups, it's that all this superficial pandering you see in some corners, wearing kente cloth or reading white fragility or whatever, it's all wholly unnecessary. What Black America wants really isn't different from what working White America wants: a roof over their head, to not be squeezed by the banks, a means to live by their labor. It really, really, isn't much more than that. And being able to state honestly that you aren't going to exclude them from any prosperity, that in fact you
do want their lives to get better, as you do for White Americans and Hispanic Americans and Asian Americans, that'll be a hell of a lot more than spouting some horseshit "Death to Amerikkka".
At the end of the day, merely offering people a chance for a better life is more likely to create lasting change than trying to sound like the most radical person in the room.
>>2192927"Jesus according to modern mainstream media" wasn't intended to be what Jesus actually looked like.
It was a random reconstruction of the face of a random dude who lived in Palestine in the same time period. The point wasn't that this is what Jesus looked like, but that this is what the average person in this time and place would have looked like, and so Jesus would have looked somewhat similar to this guy in the same way that people of the same ethnic group and from the same area may look similar.
Imagine that people had no clue what George Washington looked like, and for some reason there was a widespread belief that he was Korean. A scientist might reconstruct the face of a random Virginian colonist and said "George Washington would have looked similar to this guy, he obviously wasn't Korean" to prove a point, though it should be understood that the random colonist chosen for this probably wasn't a dead ringer for Washington himself, just of a similar ethnic background.
>>2192936>Think how Blacks who were brought up under Jim Crow are 10x more nationalist than any of the younger gens who never experienced any of that.What do you mean by nationalist in this case? Because both statistically and anecdotal examples would tell us that the nationalism is different. I can give an example: ask a black person raised during Jim Crow if they had to choose what is more important to them being black or being American 9 out of ten will choose being black. This can flip if you ask the question to a white person raised around that same time.
>The media has built up a strong counter America narrative over many decades.Keep in mind that MLK, the man used as a patriotic symbol, was a hated man in his time and was seen as a anti-American force alongside the American hating Vietnam protesters. Now these same boomers would tell you these were all acts of patriotism but at the time they were seen as counter cultures put upon America.
>If it could even work, all it would lead to would be a nationwide CHAZ but the patriotic elements would always end up stomping those out.And these patriotic elements have different meanings of what it means to be a patriot. It always goes back on "what kind of American are you". NYC will have a different vision of patriotism compared to someone in East Washington.
>Really all it will do is help us sink further into the malaise.No, you just have to realize that the universal American story is different to different groups. Understand that Civil Rights activists quoting Jefferson was an attempt to appeal to the mainstream and not so much out of patriotic love of a slave owner.
>>2192939>The nation supercedes, race, religion, or creed.Disagree. Thats Pentagon propaganda especially to foreigners. The national constitution that in use today still have 3/5th person in bold writing. The nation never truly superseded its biases and overcame these issues through force and economic prosperity to shut down complaints. However, this prosperity is dying down and tensions are increasing. So blaming a counter culture(which was always there since the 17th century) and saying that most Americans are patriotic towards the same thing comes across as naive
>>2193016This post is a start and recognizes that some groups are going to see the history of this country and the present differently. But as said previously the key is offering economic prosperity and allowing people to have stability in their lives. All American groups desire this
>At the end of the day, merely offering people a chance for a better life is more likely to create lasting change than trying to sound like the most radical person in the room. Unique IPs: 168