So I think most of us can all agree that America's days are numbered, and the current government is only accelerating the collapse with their brazen stupidity and open contempt for anybody that's not a millionaire grifter pedophile. It's only being a couple of months and already tensions have risen to a fever pitch, conservatives out in the sticks are getting directly targeted by welfare cuts and are making their anger known, meanwhile every time Elon Musk says something it makes him hated more and more by average people. Liberals are ready to go full sicko mode, tearing apart the limbs of Chuck Schumer and anybody else who stands in their way, all so they can restore the Obama era status quo. Military forces are soon going to be recalled from oversees operations to protect Tesla dealerships, which will only fan the flames and weaken America's ability to function as a superpower. Whether the fire starts via a massacre of protestors, a terrorist attack, or an attempted invasion of Canada and/or Mexico is still pretty contested, but the fire will start nonetheless and likely soon.
With that in mind, leftists in America (by leftist I am including communists, anarchists, and other anti-capitalists who believe in revolutionary means to achieve their goals, in case anybody wants to split hairs) aren't nearly numerous enough to simply organize general strikes across the country like Sorel's wet dreams. Therefor it makes sense that leftists in America consolidate themselves into a few key areas when the initial collapse happens so that we can be strong enough to resist initial attempts by the government or military at taking us out, as well as providing a safe haven for international volunteers to arrive (and this is why I'm not posting this in the burgerreich thread, international volunteers means everyone).
The sixty four thousand dollar question of course is where? For me at least, the most obvious choice seems to be the Seattle and Portland metropolitan areas, the existing smashie culture will mean that government authority is already weak and it will be easier for us to establish ourselves, the high population and nearby industry gives us a decent industrial base, and access to the Pacific gives us the opportunity to get aid from China as they'll probably provide aid to any separatist or rebel group that they think might align with their interests. Of course, DC might also be a stronghold, most of the population of the DMV area fucking hates the government right now and I can very well envision a scenario where angry folks occupy the capital while POTUS is away on some trip, forcing the feds to relocate assuming they're unable to mobilize Quantico. Chicago seems like an obvious choice, but I'd argue it's too important for the American government or military to let it fall that easily, too much industrial potential. LA and San Francisco are also probably nonstarters, due to concentrations of military personnel in the state.
TL;DR we need a place in America where leftists can regroup when shit hits the fan, and for comrades overseas to gather to aid the struggle since America is basically the lynchpin holding the neoliberal world order together.
>>2196503Cringe pic, didn't read
something something dialectics bad? Liberal.
Skimming through.
>by leftist I am including communists<Implying communism has anything to do with the left of capitalLiberal. KYS.
>>2196503I agree, idk about portland. I don't think we will know where the leftist nexus of power is going to be. Not something that will be decided but happen naturally to the conditions at the time. Portland seems likely candidate but again idk.
>>2196525Exactly, the ruling class has lost the plot on this whole thing is running on rails. Its only a matter of time before everything derails.
>>2196503Good thread topic OP, too bad leftypol is a contrarian hellhole filled with complete retards. I mean really, how do you describe something like this
>>2196545 as anything but a wrecker sperging out that someone suggested that the left (yes, left, that IS the name for us coward
>>2196532) do anything but jerk off to the scripture of Marx and defend foreign capitalists at all costs (>>2196547) If you seriously find THIS thread the most pressing thing to criticize on leftypol then you genuinely need to kill yourself, for the sake of the Socialist movement you need to light yourself on fire.
>Therefore it makes sense that leftists in America consolidate themselves into a few key areasAren't leftists basically already organically doing this by concentrating into urban areas? I don't really think there needs to be a big push for leftists to populate portland and seattle anymore, I think if theres a campaign for comrades to group somewhere it should be more about the more rural areas around and connecting our already existing strongholds in cities than the cities themselves. We should try to avoid an isolated urban Portland Commune with an equivalent bloody week.
>The sixty four thousand dollar question of course is where?I think California actually has a lot of potential mostly because they have a prominent history of rural workers participating in the class struggle (UFW) through a widely influential union base.
>>2196726>Aren't leftists basically already organically doing this by concentrating into urban areas?Even then though, our numbers are spread somewhat thin, and some cities with a large radical leftist population will be considered high priority for either the regime or the military to take for one reason or another, which is why I ruled out DC and Chicago. This is not to say I think we should just all gather there preemptively, but rather that we should be ready to concentrate our forces when the collapse begins for those of us who are able to. Those who for whatever reason cant or dont want to are perfectly welcome to act as beacons of leftist resistance wherever they may be, and coordinating with them will be vital for the upcoming revolution, but I think having a "base of operations" at least initially might help rally people to our cause in an easy manner. Even considering the Pacific Northwest I dont think we should isolate ourselves to the cities, but it is true that Seattle and Portland have a large concentration of radicals and those locations could provide safe havens in the initial weeks.
>I think California actually has a lot of potential mostly because they have a prominent history of rural workers participating in the class struggle (UFW) through a widely influential union baseI thought about that, and it's certainly a good early target at least. The main problem though is that initially, assuming Trump loyalist parts of the military hold the Pentagon and Hampton Roads, the defectors will likely rally in California and Texas and other strongholds. Trying to consolidate control over California in the initial phases of the struggle I worry might be a fool's errand outside the bay area and SF, and that's assuming the Crips and Bloods dont form their own statelets. Anything's possible after all. The Northwest both has some strong urban areas and decent rural farmland, and would probably be considered an "acceptable loss" by the feds anyways in case of a collapse.
Granted, once power is consolidated and fighting becomes more widespread we'll have far more opportunities for expansion, and as living conditions deteriorate for the average person as the civil war goes on the amount of potential comrades only increases. This is where the whole "anarcho blanquism" aspect comes in, a decentralized vanguard with a set of principles militantly enforced but otherwise allowing local groups to kinda do their own thing. Of course conversely, there will also be an increased radical right presence as accelerationist terrorists and Nazi LARPers as things get worse, but I feel like a lot of them will probably be either fighting for Trump and/or Musk or more concerned with carving out fiefdoms so they probably wont be too big of an issue.
You know the thread is abysmal utopian dogshit when you have the anarchoid Proudhon anticommunist flagfag defending it
>>2196726i.e. "CLASS STRUGGLE" against (((THE BIG BUSINESSES))) with 卐 small business owners 卐
>>2196726RAISE THE BLACK FLAG
WRITE AN ARTICLE AGAINST (((THIS))) RACE
>>2196761Bruv thinks hes lenin
bruv thinks that the left of capital seeking to reform the present state of affairs has anything to do with the communist movement
>boy real shieet happens when we wreck stuff and do adventurismhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1902/sep/01.htm >>2196762I mean…what do you think the logical extension of this is? We're well aware that we're going to have to defend our territory with force
>>2196765When in this thread did I say that I seek to "reform" the system? I'm explicitly calling for revolution, you cant left wing of capital yourself to a revolution
>>2196766the logical extension:
https://clausewitzstudies.org/readings/OnWar1873/TOC.htmlenin himself said that leninism is a synthesis of marx, engels and clausewitz. the solution is not to "defend your territory" it's to organize an army and actively wage war on the bourgeoisie.
>>2196774Oh man I sure am epically owned, ecks dee. You gonna post the "anarchy lives" webm next? Or post photos of "degenerate" rainbow haired protestors?
>>2196769Never let it be said in the annals of history that folks on leftypol didn't try to organize. That's assuming leftypol is ever written in history, which it just might be if enough people from here take part in the coming revolution. Or maybe not, I dunno if I want historians musing over the intricacies of moderator drama or what the fuck "dixie bolshevism" is unless it leads to the worship of Shay Daniels which you know there are far worse things to worship.
>>2196777Defending our territory is part of waging the war on the bourgeoisie THOUGH. We defend our initial strongholds first, then push out.
>>2197047stop buying into liberal TDS
Trump isn't destroying their beloved security state he's filing it with loyalists who answer to him only.
>>2196503>So I think most of us can all agree that America's days are numbered, […] but the fire will start nonetheless and likely soon.A lot of fluff to say that the American political and economical system is heading towards a crisis. It's really not in the spirit of scientific socialism to make far reaching deductions from particular events, like for example saying that
<Military forces are soon going to be recalled from oversees operations to protect Tesla dealershipswhen there's no proof of that happening.
>Therefor it makes sense that leftists in America consolidate themselves into a few key areas when the initial collapse happens so that we can be strong enough to resist initial attempts by the government or military at taking us out, as well as providing a safe haven for international volunteers to arrive (and this is why I'm not posting this in the burgerreich thread, international volunteers means everyone).You're calling for united front (broad) politics and cell-like (tight) organizing. Good luck with that. And again with the unscientific claims like some int'l volunteers arriving. wtf
Just stop bro. This is literally such a stupid thread. Like why don't you read Lenin's Where to begin, Letter to a comrade and What is to be done and then think about reinventing tactics. You don't even know your history.
>>2197160let me just add, since I forgot, that the point of communism is that the
masses start actively participating in history. You cannot reinvent blanquism (and this time, a really gay kind of blanquism) and think you're smarter than the almost two centuries of socialist tradition. fucking kautsky tactics make more sense for america and other western euro countries than most of this pre-commune wheel reinvention
>>2197161but the masses in ameriKKKa are actively reactionary. the idea that there is some oppressed mass waiting for liberation is simply not true in america. the majority of all americans depend on this system of exploitation to provide them with their standard of living AND THEY KNOW IT.
if you want proof, ask them where their nikes and funko pops come from. they will tell you about the kids in sweatshops even as they order more.
there will never be a mass uprising in america. America MUST be destroyed first, before anything can be built.
>>2197163>>2197167READ KAUTSKY FAGGOT
>>2197168The bolsheviks were not a conspiratorial minority considering they got most of the votes among the soldires on the front and in the industrial centers in the first free elections in russia, considering that they led many improtant soviets they were anything but a minority or conspiratorial. and russia was sufficiently developed at the time to have a large and effective labor movement. this is like some basic history, have you even read the Short Course?? I can't fucking believe how many retards are here.
>>2197176i refuse to believe that anyone who has done so much reading doesn't realize that the material conditions of 21st century america are WILDLY different from those of 19th century Russia. there is no oppressed peasant mass here. there never has been. the majority of americans identify with the system because it objectively provides them with a high standard of living.
it does so at the EXPLICIT cost of everyone else living on earth, but that is a cost you are apparently willing to extract with your strategy of "wait and do nothing"
stop reading books and do something, you fucking coward.
>>2197186The Bolsheviks were a minority faction but calling them Blanquists is a big stretch. They were still a mass movement and overwhelmingly popular among industrial workers, and they did actively aim to recruit peasants and invited the SRs into their government after the October Revolution, a minority faction of which agreed. In other words they were aiming to be a majoritarian movement but didn't quite succeed.
>>2197192So true man, and homeless people would totally be middle class if they just stopped buying avocado toast.
>>2197193Are you guys serious? Have you even read the manifesto? It's like literally the intro book.
How are you guys this retarded and agrro about it at the same time. You've invented your own Marxism that has nothing to do with what Marx said.
>We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
>The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible.
>Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production. >>2197196Once again read the manifesto.
>These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
>Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
<1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.<2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.<3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.<4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.<5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.<6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.<7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.<8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.<9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.<10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c. He literally said vote your way to communism and we've already achieved some of these things through "reformism."
>>2197188the best selling vehicle in america costs more than a new home in most countries.
>>2197185there cannot and SHOULD NOT be a mass movement in america. a mass movement could only be reactionary owing to the class and material characteristics of the settler colonial state. the only way a mass movement could ever be revolutionary in nature would be if America was destroyed FIRST.
your strategy of "wait and do nothing" is not only genocidal in character, it is ineffective and i think deep down in your little strasserite heart, you know this.
>>2197194the example of the bolsheviks is entirely irrelevant to the material conditions of the united states. if you look at revolutionary movements of the modern era you will see an entirely different strategy. the IRA had fewer than 1000 fighters at any one time. spear of the nation literally started with fewer than 10. hezbollah only has 20% of the population behind them at most.
the idea that you need the majority, or near the majority, to destroy the government (and this should be your ONLY objective) is absolutely bunk and intentionally so. it's nothing more than cope so cowards like you can feel good about doing nothing.
>>2197196I know, but they are not saying it in good faith.
>>2197197>that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.Yes and then later on these ideas developed into the ideas of proletarian dicatorship. "winning the battle of democracy" means that the proletariat is the only class with political power, that there is no bourgeois state anymore
>>2197201those are not communist demands but what should be (should have already been) done by bourgeois states, he's saying "hey, in the transitional period, it would be good to do THIS because it makes sense".
>>2197203>reactionary owing to the class and material characteristics of the settler colonial statesee
>>2197176 + sakaists will get the rope in lieu of actual marxist theories of the state (pic related)
>>2197205>those are not communist demands but what should be (should have already been) done by bourgeois states, he's saying "hey, in the transitional period, it would be good to do THIS because it makes sense". That's literally not what he said. He advocated for universal suffrage because workers make up the majority of society, so they can dominate the bourgeois electorally through their universal suffrage. You people are making shit up out whole cloth.
>You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are countries – such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland – where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labor. >>2197205no one cares about your ancient tomes.
do something or shut the fuck up. you
>>2197163>the majority of all americans depend on this system of exploitation to provide them with their standard of living AND THEY KNOW ITAnon actual Marxist economists can't even agree on the mechanisms of imperialism and whether it provides any direct benefit to the first world working class (see the Roberts v Cockshott discourse on unequal exchange vs uneven development). People with extensive knowledge of these subjects who study it for a living. Meanwhile American workers often can't even recognize their most immediate interests wrt to wages and organizing and sometimes struggle to develop even trade union consciousness. The idea that they have any conscious knowledge on the esoteric workings of global imperialism is laughable. Were this not the case there would be no need for the history's most sophisticated propaganda apparatus to convince them that they're actually fighting for freedom and democracy rather than superprofits.
>>2197203>the best selling vehicle in america costs more than a new home in most countriesAnd yet many other countries (including much poorer ones) have much higher rates of home ownership.
>>2197203>the IRA had fewer than 1000 fighters at any one timeYeah and they also had massive (likely majority) support among Catholics and still lost anyways.
>spear of the nation literally started with fewer than 10Again, the ANC had massive support among the Black population and significant external assistance.
>hezbollah only has 20% of the population behind them at mostHezbollah has built effective dual power but is not in control of the Lebanese government.
>the idea that you need the majority, or near the majority, to destroy the government (and this should be your ONLY objective)Anon, destroying the government accomplishes nothing if you can't replace it with something better. If you can't successfully fill the power vacuum then there's nothing stopping the old order from reasserting itself, potentially in an even more horrifying form. Not only that, but even successfully destroying a government requires you to have large scale popular support, even if not the majority. Take Hezbollah as an example. If they wanted to they could probably completely wreck Lebanon and turn it into a failed state, but who would support them in doing this? If they told their Shia supporters in Southern Lebanon that this was their aim how many would continue to support them? Probably none.
>>2197220>shouldNope.
>>2197221>reading is larpWords mean things.
>>2197222No imagining how you are going to put people to the wall or throw them in jail when you get to power is pure unadulterated LARP and makes me think you're all underage.
>Words mean things.I agree, now you read:
>>2197223>Universal suffrage is the equivalent of political power for the working class of England, where the proletariat forms the large majority of the population, where, in a long though underground civil war, it has gained a clear consciousness of its position as a class and where even the rural districts know no longer any peasants, but only landlords, industrial capitalists (farmers) and hired labourers. The carrying of universal suffrage in England would, therefore be a far more socialistic measure than anything which has been honoured with that name on the continent. Its inevitable result, here is the political supremacy of the working class. (emphasis in original)
>We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.
>The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible.
>You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are countries – such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland – where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labor.>Words mean things. > What the breakdown of Russian Czarism would be for the great military monarchies of Europe – the snapping of their mainstay – that is for the bourgeois of the whole world the breaking out of class war in America. For America after all was the ideal of all bourgeois; a country rich, vast, expanding, with purely bourgeois institutions unleavened by feudal remnants or monarchical traditions and without a permanent and hereditary proletariat. Here everyone could become, if not a capitalist, at all events an independent man, producing or trading, with his own means, for his own account. And because there were not, as yet, classes with opposing interests, our – and your – bourgeois thought that America stood above class antagonisms and struggles. That delusion has now broken down, the last bourgeois paradise on earth is fast changing into a Purgatorio, and can only be prevented from becoming, like Europe, an Inferno by the go-ahead pace at which the development of the newly fledged proletariat of America will take place. The way in which they have made their appearance on the scene is quite extraordinary: six months ago nobody suspected anything, and now they appear all of a sudden in such organised masses as to strike terror into the whole capitalist class. I only wish Marx could have lived to see it!
I wish Marx lived to see it.
>>2197292>With regard to America, the parallel is indeed most striking. True, the external surroundings in which the working class is placed in America are very different, but the same economical laws are at work, and the results, if not identical in every respect, must still be of the same order. Hence we find in America the same struggles for a shorter working-day, for a legal limitation of the working time, especially of women and children in factories; we find the truck system in full blossom, and the cottage-system, in rural districts, made use of by the “bosses” as a means of domination over the workers. At this very moment I am receiving the American papers with accounts of the great strike of 12,000 Pennsylvanian coal-miners in the Connellsville district, and I seem but to read my own description of the North of England colliers’ strike of 1844. The same cheating of the work-people by false measure; the same truck system; the same attempt to break the miners’ resistance by the Capitalists’ last, but crushing, resource, the eviction of the men out of their dwellings, the cottages owned by the companies.
>There were two circumstances which for a long time prevented the unavoidable consequences of the Capitalist system from showing themselves in the full glare of day in America. These were the easy access to the ownership of cheap land, and the influx of immigration. They allowed, for many years, the great mass of the native American population to “retire” in early manhood from wage-labor and to become farmers, dealers, or employers of labor, while the hard work for wages, the position of a proletarian for life, mostly fell to the lot of immigrants. But America has outgrown this early stage. The boundless backwoods have disappeared, and the still more boundless prairies are fast and faster passing from the hands of the Nation and the States into those of private owners. The great safety-valve against the formation of a permanent proletarian class has practically ceased to act. A class of life-long and even hereditary proletarians exists at this hour in America. A nation of sixty millions striving hard to become — and with every chance of success, too — the leading manufacturing nation of the world — such a nation cannot permanently import its own wage-working class; not even if immigrants pour in at the rate of half a million a year. The tendency of the Capitalist system towards the ultimate splitting-up of society into two classes, a few millionaires on the one hand, and a great mass of mere wage-workers on the other, this tendency, though constantly crossed and counteracted by other social agencies, works nowhere with greater force than in America; and the result has been the production of a class of native American wage-workers, who form, indeed, the aristocracy of the wage-working class as compared with the immigrants, but who become conscious more and more every day of their solidarity with the latter and who feel all the more acutely their present condemnation to life-long wage-toil, because they still remember the bygone days, when it was comparatively easy to rise to a higher social level. Accordingly the working class movement, in America, has started with truly American vigor, and as on that side of the Atlantic things march with at least double the European speed, we may yet live to see America take the lead in this respect too.AMERICAN VIGOR!
>>2197212>Anon actual Marxist economists can't even agree on the mechanisms of imperialism and whether it provides any direct benefit to the first world working class (see the Roberts v Cockshott discourse on unequal exchange vs uneven development). People with extensive knowledge of these subjects who study it for a living. Meanwhile American workers often can't even recognize their most immediate interests wrt to wages and organizing and sometimes struggle to develop even trade union consciousness. The idea that they have any conscious knowledge on the esoteric workings of global imperialism is laughable. Were this not the case there would be no need for the history's most sophisticated propaganda apparatus to convince them that they're actually fighting for freedom and democracy rather than superprofits.americans know what they're fighting for, you just haven't talked to any. if you asked the average soldier why they fought in iraq, they'd tell you it was for oil. if you ask the average american if their government represents them, they will say no. they fully understand, on an intuitive level, what is going on. they support it. they believe that it is the best possible system and will die to preserve it.
>And yet many other countries (including much poorer ones) have much higher rates of home ownership.cool none (except NATO) of those countries are involved in violent, genocidal imperialism all throughout the world, either.
>Yeah and they also had massive (likely majority) support among Catholics and still lost anyways.First, the IRA didn't lose. They actually defeated the state and brought them to the table after a successful campaign of economic sabotage, they just didn't score a complete victory. Secondly, they did not have majority support, ever. They had small pockets of support in certain areas, but if they had majority support they would have had a lot more than 1000 fighters.
>Again, the ANC had massive support among the Black population and significant external assistance.So would you, if you were willing to do literally anything.
>Hezbollah has built effective dual power but is not in control of the Lebanese government. Thus proving my point that you don't need majority support to start fighting, you gain majority support only after you start doing things.
>Anon, destroying the government accomplishes nothing if you can't replace it with something better. If you can't successfully fill the power vacuum then there's nothing stopping the old order from reasserting itself, potentially in an even more horrifying form. Not only that, but even successfully destroying a government requires you to have large scale popular support, even if not the majority. Take Hezbollah as an example. If they wanted to they could probably completely wreck Lebanon and turn it into a failed state, but who would support them in doing this? If they told their Shia supporters in Southern Lebanon that this was their aim how many would continue to support them? Probably none.No, America is actively killing overseas every second of every day. The longer it exists, the more it kills. It will NEVER stop. It can't. The only way to prevent the genocide of everyone else on earth is to destroy the American government.
Hezbollah would be absolutely justified in destroying the Lebanese government if it was doing the same, but it is not. The Lebanese government is not murdering innocent people overseas to generate superprofits so you can have more Nikes and Funko Pops, it is NATO doing that.
The material conditions are radically different in Lebanon than they are in America, but none of you retards are capable of understanding that.
America is the head of the snake, and it MUST be destroyed.
>>2197215Did you actually read those passages or are you just posting random bullshit now? No one cares about your inane non-sequiturs.
>>2197323>mericans know what they're fighting for, you just haven't talked to any. if you asked the average soldier why they fought in iraq, they'd tell you it was for oilNo wonder why the military is having a chronic recruitment problem then even with all the economic coercion.
>if you ask the average american if their government represents them, they will say no. they fully understand, on an intuitive level, what is going on. they support it. they believe that it is the best possible system and will die to preserve itThis is a bunch of incoherent nonsense. So they know their government doesn't represent them, but they believe this is the best possible system? They will die to preserve it, but most of them won't even vote and barely any will join the military? Sorry m8, but once again reality shoots down third worldist delusions.
>cool none (except NATO) of those countries are involved in violent, genocidal imperialism all throughout the worldYeah and for all that imperialism they can't even get a house or free healthcare out of it lmao.
>So would you, if you were willing to do literally anythingThese are the attitudes that always betray people as armchairs. Communists and others in the US are doing things. They participate and support strikes, agitate against wars, organize mutual aid drives, do direct action against the security state (see Cop City encampments, etc.) But it turns out that they're fighting against the most powerful state apparatus in the world, and this is an uphill battle that statistically speaking is likely to fail, even in far better conditions than this. What you fail to realize is that no revolution can ever succeed, regardless of how correct it's line and well organized it is, unless the grip of the state on the country has *already* been severely weakened, often by external factors. Tsarist Russia was losing a world war, China was a failed state run by warlords, Yugoslavia's government was in exile, Vietnam and Korea had a power vacuum after the Japanese withdrawal, etc. The vast majority of successful revolutions are only possible thanks to conditions that had very little to do with the revolutionaries themselves. In other words, this destruction (or at least partial destruction) of the state that you're talking about is more often than not a prerequisite for a successful revolution, and is most often not brought about by revolutionary activity.
>Hezbollah would be absolutely justified in destroying the Lebanese government if it was doing the same, but it is not.That's beside the point. You can't destroy a state and the social forces it represents unless you fill the resulting power vacuum, because if you don't the social forces you just defeated will regroup and reclaim power, which they will easily succeed in because you have no social base or hegemony over the population. Once again even such destruction itself requires large scale support, and nobody will support you unless you actually promise to create something rather than just destroying.
>America is the head of the snake, and it MUST be destroyed.It must, and it will be, but not by the retarded nonsense you're peddling.
>>2197393>No wonder why the military is having a chronic recruitment problem then even with all the economic coercion.Yet, none of this has stopped them from slaughtering millions of people overseas. Their "recruitment crisis" has been a blessing to the arms dealers and war profiteers, as it's allowed them to replace the non-combat arms of the military with private enterprise, thereby creating an even higher return on their investments in imperialism.
>This is a bunch of incoherent nonsense. So they know their government doesn't represent them, but they believe this is the best possible system? They will die to preserve it, but most of them won't even vote and barely any will join the military? Sorry m8, but once again reality shoots down third worldist delusions.Where are you getting this idea that the no one will join the US military when their combat power still far outstrips anyone save perhaps China? It's not a real thing, the military does not have a recruitment crisis so much as it's been intentionally hollowed out by the neo-liberals.
Americans understand that the bourgeoisie dominate their democracy. If you asked Americans "Do the wealthy/big business have too much influence on our politics?" the answer would be a nearly universal yes. Despite this, Americans still believe this is the best system ever created and will kill (and die) for it, as they have been doing constantly and are still doing today.
>Yeah and for all that imperialism they can't even get a house or free healthcare out of it lmao.Yes, and? If you think the loot from imperialism should simply be better distributed then you are objectively part of the problem.
>These are the attitudes that always betray people as armchairs. Communists and others in the US are doing things. They participate and support strikes, agitate against wars, organize mutual aid drives, do direct action against the security state (see Cop City encampments, etc.) But it turns out that they're fighting against the most powerful state apparatus in the world, and this is an uphill battle that statistically speaking is likely to fail, even in far better conditions than this. What you fail to realize is that no revolution can ever succeed, regardless of how correct it's line and well organized it is, unless the grip of the state on the country has *already* been severely weakened, often by external factors. Tsarist Russia was losing a world war, China was a failed state run by warlords, Yugoslavia's government was in exile, Vietnam and Korea had a power vacuum after the Japanese withdrawal, etc. The vast majority of successful revolutions are only possible thanks to conditions that had very little to do with the revolutionaries themselves. In other words, this destruction (or at least partial destruction) of the state that you're talking about is more often than not a prerequisite for a successful revolution, and is most often not brought about by revolutionary activity.Yes, thank you for proving my point. Unlike you, I fully understand America MUST be destroyed. The central government must be weakened or utterly destroyed FIRST for there to be any chance whatsoever to build a mass movement that can replace it. Unlike you, however, I do not hold to the delusion that some foreign savior will come to help us. WE must destroy the government ourselves, no one can or will do it for us. Socialism has only ever been built in crisis, our task is to create this crisis and force the United States to turn inwards and send it's military home so it can no longer turn the blood of the world into gold for the arms dealers and bankers.
The idea that Communists are doing anything useful is utterly laughable, though. None of these actions, weak and sporadic as they are, will do anything to physically destroy the United States government, which should be the first and only goal. There is exactly one way this will occur, and you know what it is as well as I do.
>That's beside the point. You can't destroy a state and the social forces it represents unless you fill the resulting power vacuum, because if you don't the social forces you just defeated will regroup and reclaim power, which they will easily succeed in because you have no social base or hegemony over the population. Once again even such destruction itself requires large scale support, and nobody will support you unless you actually promise to create something rather than just destroying. But as you've already said, you can't build anything to replace the state until it is already weakened or partially destroyed. Therefore, you must wage war against the state as your primary goal and worry about creation of this hypothetical mass movement later.
>It must, and it will be, but not by the retarded nonsense you're peddling.It will be when you decide to do something instead of just posting and reading books.
>>2200127holy shit can you people just PLEASE read the state and revolution for once
"abolishing settler states" jfc
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