[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)


File: 1742783109888.gif (1.05 MB, 540x540, 1708782105087.gif)

 

Stalin was such an utter retard and so incapable of convincingly arguing on behalf of his distortions that it makes the obsequious Soviet yesmen who surrounded him look a hundred times more pathetic.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1934/07/19.htm(Rule 14f - low-quality sectarian bait)

Well the end goal was tsarist larp, the better you argue for something the more genuine you have to be or you accrue technical debt.

>>2197850
OK? and?

georgian man bad

You would've made worse decisions under a quarter of the pressure that man was under, humble yourself

>>2197850
>le Stalin was a tsar
Funny how westoid lefties parroting literal russian glowing shitlib, butthurt belt nazoids and populist nationalists talking points about Stalin one to one.

Can you point what exactly wrong with Stalins takes?

>>2197891
he brought back several tsarist policies

File: 1742790346320-0.mp4 (1.48 MB, 852x480, yummy_war_credits.mp4)

File: 1742790346320-1.png (58.28 KB, 1200x708, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2197876
Und doch?

>>2197883
If I was under a quarter of the pressure Stalin was under, I would purge the original bolsheviks.

>>2197928
Such as?

>>2197939
KOBA WHY DID I HAVE TO DIE

>>2197944
>1922— Lenin leaves out ban of homosexuality from constitutional rewrite, thus legalizing it
>1933—Stalin reinstates ban
That's the example I know, wou|d have to read all 3 versions of the constitution or a changelog for more.

>>2197950
He had to follow the masses who were overwhelmingly homophobic, nothing wrong with that.

>>2197962
He cou|d have sent the ones demanding that to reeduation rather than giving in to reactionary glowops.

>>2197963
The constitution itself was written democratically even tribes that had been hunter gatherers only a few decades before participated in its drafting.

Stalin himself didn't get much of a say in the contents. In fact according to The Economic Problems of the USSR he directly states that this constitution granting the peasants title to land in perpetuity was a major issue as it meant commodity exchange between countryside and city.

Let us take a step back from this however, because the subtext in all this is of course the current political battle over the creation of a local lgbt board.

Two key points.
1. Historically the somewhat perverted asbiyah between working class days (called rough trade for a reason) and hauteur and aristocratic Queer people causes suspicion for people who have been around the block a few times making discussion of current events difficult.

2. In my humble opinion, this perverted solidarity is breaking down as the contradictions in class become more salient. (Concretely speaking this means that working class lgbt are going to be going their own way instead of echoing the hauteur lgbt in an attempt at respectability politics.)

Questions?

>>2197962
>He had to follow the masses
lol ok. and then leftoids whine when communists correctly point out democracy is at odds with the proletariat

>>2197974
>The constitution itself was written democratically
thats not a good thing for communists. all stalin did was pander to the peasantry lol

>>2197891
'tsar' is not mentioned once in op's post?

based based based based based, death to Russian chauvinism and oligarchy

>>2197978
>thats not a good thing for communists
Yeah the union should've stayed a backwater so they could pander to a bunch of intellectuals

>>2197891
Wasn't Stalin's idea of dialects totally determined by the base? Like he thought it was a mechanical concept?

>>2197984
where proofs, he openly criticized Bukharin's mechanism. Well, more like he piggybacked Lenin's criticism of Bukharin's mechanics, but still.

>>2197850
those anime beauties are so sexually appealing, i wish I could cup my hand around the breasts of the red one on the right. and the one in white on the left is also very beautiful. I love her white elbow gloves and refined manner of laughing. Its like she's saying "ufufufu" whereas the right one is more like "ehehehe", a more crude style but fitting of her more sexually brazen appearance.

Removing the NEP was a mistake. Nazi Germany was going to be defeated be cause they were r*tards no matter the economic policy. Stalin was a mistake. Stalinists will end up in the dustbin of history. Bukharin will be vindicated. Lenin will be vindicated. Marx will be vindicated. Deng will be vindicated. Stagism will be vindicated. All Stalinist revisionists will be purged and communism will be allowed to develop according to historical materialism. You cannot skip stages of history. Death to dogmatists and ultras. The great purge was idiotic and allowed Nazi Germany to gain far more ground than would have otherwise been possible. No amount of NKVD pedophile propaganda will dislodge the truth. The confessions were coerced. China proves Marxism right. Maoism will fade into obscurity.

I have said my piece, I am ostensibly correct and will not debate my points :)

>>2197950
>1922— Lenin leaves out ban of homosexuality from constitutional rewrite, thus legalizing it
Homosexual relationships were decriminalised during February Revolution of 1917, along with the cancellation of most of Russian Empire laws, Criminal code of 1903 in particular. Bolsheviks simply inhereted this position since it was a common ground - deconstruction of tsarist institutions. You can say they leaves out ban on rape and incest as well, because they just throw out the legal framework, which doesnt mean it was not prosecuted at the time in reality.
Criminal Code of RSFSR in 1922 didn't mentioned homosexuality at all (if it was a rape, it falls under general rape), BUT Criminal Codes for some Caucasus and Central Asian republics (Azerbaijani, Uzbek, Georgian, Tajik ones) have the ban on it, to punish the local tribal bs, such as sexual abuse practises of Bacha bazi.
Only in 1933 willing homosexual acts between adults were criminalized (as amendment to the criminal law of 1926), with sentences from 3 to 5 years.

>reactionary glowo- yap yap yap

If you want to play idpol game with history i suggest you to look up anti-homosexual laws around the refined modern bourgeoisie nations of the period, to see the context. 1930s Soviet republic was still a majorly traditional (in a collective psyche sense), religious (even under institutional supression), largely devided by ethnic traditions, still turbulent and young state. Even despite Stalins government of 1932-37 doubled down on the prosecution of official religious organisations (which current russian christcucks calling "godless five year plan"). 20 years prior to that absolute majority of the soviet people would name themselves as ortodox, cmon they were mostly poor peasants from largely still feudal structure, illiterate. Society inertion is a thing. For example out of all 147mil USSR people in 1955 - 42% considered themselves as orthodox and 8% as muslims. Go figure. Why religion and traditions refused to go is another topic which must consider all named internal and external (intervention, blockade and isolation, then war after war, and another isolation) factors. I personally think lgbt problem is irrelevant to context of soviet state until very late of 20 century, there were bigger and more important things to build. But sure is very hot topic on anti-soviet camp from any wing.

>>2197983
lol intellectuals love democracy

>op posting a genuine article by stalin as proof of him being a dumbass
>replies sperging out about americans or whatever the fuck
lol?

>>2197996
They are seething because they know that we would rightfully put those laws back in and they cannot live with it. They will simply have to accept that their lifestyle is simply harmful to the proletariat and nation at large, peacefully or otherwise.

>>2198001
>the proletariat has a specific sexuality
leftard moment

>>2198003
Do you have any arguments against the Stalin family policy? Do you have any evidence that the Soviet Encyclopedia of the most revolutionary years of the Soviet Union was faulty?
>In Soviet society with its healthy mores, Homosexualism as a sexual perversion is considered shameful and criminal. Soviet criminal legislation regards Homosexualism as punishable with the exception of those instances where Homosexualism is a manifestation of marked psychic disorder

>>2198001
Its all so tiresome.
Just stop idpol baiting, no one should care about idpol and lgbt now (since we know it doesnt matter whos better left - homo John or hetero Henry). it didn't matter back then because it was irrelevant to the historical context.

>>2198005
i dont think communism should concern itself with government policies outside a dictatorship of the proletariat lmfao

>>2198007
All matters of life, including culture, are influenced by bourgeois ideology and need to be replaced with proletarian culture.
https://www.marxists.org/subject/art/lit_crit/zhdanov/lit-music-philosophy.htm

File: 1742796729812.png (2.83 MB, 1500x1500, OCDONUTSTEAL.png)

>>2197994
The day when Stali*oids accept they have been BTFO by Deng can't come soon enough.

>>2197994
NEP was extremely slow in building industry and mechanize peasantry, same applies for today's PRC as well. Initial five year plans resulted in an unprecended breakthrough in overall industrial output, USSR industrial output roughly tripled per plan.

From wikipedia:

(PRC)
>As of 2023, approximately 40% of China's workforce is engaged in farming, primarily at small scale.

(Russia)
>The agricultural sector accounted for 6.71% of total employment in 2015

As you see, both countries require different rates of workforce to sustain themselves, Russia has 7% :>

>>2198007
Don't you realize that Communism is when you copy 1-to-1 every single policy of the early Soviet Union regardless of particular social conditions, historical development, and overall sentiments and wants of the working class!

>>2198020
Why exactly Leon here?
Read his Two Conceptions. Trot despite being salty bitch about not having a seat instead of Stalin still gives insights on ussr economics policy.

>>2197994
>Removing the NEP was a mistake. Nazi Germany was going to be defeated be cause they were r*tards no matter the economic policy.
By the 1930s, it was clear that it would inevitably come to war with the fascists. The USSR needed an industrialized economy that could stand against the might of the fascist war economy and win. The market economy was simply incapable of waging that war, as demonstrated by even the US and UK adopting state-planning during WWII.
>>2197996
>If you want to play idpol game with history i suggest you to look up anti-homosexual laws around the refined modern bourgeoisie nations of the period, to see the context.
Historical Context is far too hard for radlibs and Gorky-posters alike. Wish both retards would murder-suicide themselves.

The western strategy against Stalin was to literally do nothing and let his paranoia continue to control him. He was doing a fantastic job murdering all the Bolsheviks, getting cucked trying to ally with Nazi Germany against the Poles and so on, entirely by himself. It was only after his death the super spy shit started.

The really funny stuff are these guys who claim blatant atrocities like the Moscow Trial were all 100% real. Sometimes by citing some 1936 official Stalin spokesperson but usually just with their vibes. We got bootlickers for dictators that aren't even alive anymore. That's suburban boredom.

>glowbaiting with molotov-ribbentrop
>bingo!

>>2198033
Nazi Germany was a failure of a state before it began even implying that Nazi Germany could ever have defeated the Soviet Union is pro-Nazi Propaganda. Communism will prevail, Historical Materialism is ostensibly correct.

>>2198047
Leave it to Stalinoids to fetishize Nazi Germany into being perfect rather than the failure it was. All to justify their retarted economic policy that caused the Soviet Union to collapase.

>>2198050
I WILL MAKE AS MANY SPELLING MISTAKES AS I WANT AND IT DOESN"T MAKE ME WRONG. YOU ARE A GRAMMAR NAZI IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE. MISPELLING IS THE PEOPLES RIGHT BE A GRAMMAR MARXIST.

>>2198001
>we
You aren't a tsar and never will be anythig approximating one. Tsars never did shit for the proletariat other than abuse them.

>>2198012
you do that by replacing the mode of production, not forcing culture by working it assbackwards

File: 1742800713541.png (6.47 KB, 175x240, ClipboardImage.png)

>>2197949
<Quoting the treacherous Bukharin
That snake was plotting Stalin's murder in the late 20s. Bukharin was guilty.

>>2198087

Historical materialism is correct Stalin will fall into the dustbin of history. Deng is correct. Stalinists are the shit I wipe off my shoe.

>>2198089

Forgot my flair :)

>>2198084
>you do that by replacing the mode of production, not forcing culture by working it assbackwards
It's more effective if you do both.

>>2198104
sadly its not a matter of will as lenin correctly predicted

>>2198089
new hypersect?

>>2197950
this is literally the only thing you could come up with? something that nearly every other nation on earth at the time was reactionary about?

>>2198089
>Stalin will fall into the dustbin of history
2 more weeks

>>2198081
This is just nonsense. Stalin understood that the Russian state, of which the Tsar was but a centerpiece, was instrumental in maintaining the collective will of the Russian people in various circumstances. Hence why he gave his praise to the heroic Princes Alexander Nevsky and Dmitry Pozharsky, as well as leaders of the Tsar's armies like Alexander Suvorov and Mikhail Kutuzov, loyal to Tsar Catherine the Great and Tsar Alexander I. Particularly, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, and Alexander I were rehabilitated in Soviet media after the overextending blanket condemnation under the Lenin era which arose due to the Tsarist White Army instilling a bitter understanding of the entire history. For example, A Life for the Tsar was premiered in 1936.

File: 1742808296360-0.jpg (59.97 KB, 720x514, 1742040445149.jpg)

File: 1742808296360-1.mp4 (4.13 MB, 480x852, 1739983186957.mp4)

>>2197850
You are much worse at arguing since you haven't presented an argument at all, unlike Stalin in this letter. You have simply gestured at an emotion that is common among you liberals, quite like misogynists gesture at their hatred of women with "arguments" of the same quality.
His argument seems to be quite reasonable, and, if anything, he pulls many punches.

>It is impossible not to observe that in this characterisation of the situation in Europe, and summary of the causes leading towards world war, Engels omits one important factor, which later on played the most decisive part, namely, the factor of imperialist struggle for colonies, for markets, for sources of raw materials. This had very serious importance already at that time. He omits the role of Great Britain as a factor in the coming world war, the factor of the contradictions between Germany and Great Britain, contradictions which were already of serious importance and which later on played almost the determining part in the beginning and development of the world war.


>I think that this omission constitutes the principal weakness in Engels' article. From this weakness there ensue the remaining weaknesses of the article, of which the following are noteworthy


>(a). Overestimation of the role of Tsarist Russia's striving towards Constantinople in connection with the maturing of the world war. True, Engels mentions first as a war factor, the annexation of Alsace-Lorraine by Germany, but thereafter, he removes this factor into the background and brings to the forefront the predatory strivings of Russian Tsardom, asserting that "all the danger of general war will disappear on the day when a change of things in Russia will allow the Russian people to blot out, at a stroke, the traditional policy of conquest of its Tsars."


>This is certainly an exaggeration.


>(b). Overestimation of the role of the bourgeois revolution in Russia, the role of the "Russian National Assembly" (bourgeois Parliament), in relation to averting the approaching world war. Engels asserts that the downfall of Russian Tsarism is the only means of averting world war. This is plain exaggeration.


>A new bourgeois order in Russia, with its "national assembly", could not avert war, if only because the principal sources of war lay in the increasing intensity of imperialist struggle between the main imperialist powers. The fact is, that from the time of Russia's defeat in the Crimea in the 'fifties of the last century, the independent role of Tsarism in the sphere of European foreign policy, began to wane to a significant extent, and that, as a factor in the imperialist world conflict, Tsarist Russia served essentially as an auxiliary reserve for the principal powers of Europe.


>(c). Overestimation of the role of the Tsarist power as the "last stronghold of the whole European reaction." That the Tsarist power in Russia, was a mighty stronghold of all European (and also Asiatic) reaction, there can be no doubt. But that it was the last stronghold of this reaction, one can legitimately doubt.


>It is necessary to note that these weaknesses of Engels' article are not only of "historical value."


>They have, or can have, a most serious practical importance. Truly, if imperialist struggle for colonies and spheres of influence is lost sight of, as a factor in the approaching world war; if the imperialist contradictions between England and Germany are forgotten; if the annexation of Alsace-Lorraine by Germany is withdrawn from the foreground as a war factor in favour of Russian Tsardom's striving towards Constantinople, considered as the more serious and determining factor; if, finally, Russian Tsardom represents the last rampart of all European reaction, - then, is it not clear that a war, let us say, of bourgeois Germany against Tsarist Russia is not an imperialist war, not a robber war, not an anti-popular war, but a war of liberation, or almost of liberation?


>One can hardly doubt that this way of thinking facilitated the sin of the German Social-Democrats on August 4th, 1914, when they decided to vote for war credits, and proclaimed the slogan of defence of the bourgeois Fatherland against Tsarist Russia and against "Russian barbarism" and so on.


>It is characteristic that, in his letters to Bebel written in 1891, a year after the publication of this article, when he deals with the prospects of the coming war, Engels says directly that "the victory of Germany is, therefore, the victory of the revolution", and that "if Russia starts a war, then - forward against the Russians and their allies, whoever they may be!"


>It is obvious that such a way of thinking allows no place for revolutionary war into civil war.


>That is how matters stand as regards the weaknesses in Engels' article.


The article itself also contains a wealth of historical inaccuracies and oversights, his idea of Russian diplomats as being "Jesuits" that do more to protect the country than all armies combined is both historically wrong and clearly upholds all kinds of reactionary and white supremacist thinking. But I will drop that to focus on the last words of Engels' article:

>These are the points why Western Europe in general, and especially its working class, is interested, very deeply interested, in the triumph of the Russian Revolutionary Party, and in the overthrow of the Tsar’s absolutism. Europe is gliding down an inclined plane with increasing swiftness towards the abyss of a general war, a war of hitherto unheard-of extent and ferocity. Only one thing can stop it — a change of system in Russia. That this must come about in a few years there can be no doubt. May it come to pass in good time before the otherwise inevitable occurs.


This was proven wrong conclusively by the whole course of history after 1917. A peaceful, socialist USSR did nothing to prevent war in Europe. It is, in fact, Germany, France, Britain that create conflict, or rather their bourgeois and governments. In just 5 years, Germany attacked all of Europe with open intent to exterminate all Slavs, and Britain and France refused to cooperate to deal with it before they were invaded themselves.
To publish this article for general consumption in 1934 would be downright idiotic. You would be blaming Russia for war 7 years before fucking WWII.

More than that, the course of history after 1990 has proven it even more wrong. European bourgeois have only grown more warmongering, even genocidal as "Russia focused on internal matters" and they were allowed to create neocolonial regimes in Eastern Europe. The breakdown of diplomacy not just with Russia, but with China and several other countries is current proof that Engels was entirely wrong in that article.

Yes, I know Engels is talking about WWI, but if this is your defense, then you say that what this article says can't be generalized and as such would be useless to people in 1934 or today, for that matter.

>>2198145
>Yes, I know Engels is talking about WWI, but if this is your defense, then you say that what this article says can't be generalized and as such would be useless to people in 1934 or today, for that matter.
This is not to say that Engels was right about WWI, either, but Stalin explained how his position was even worse in that context - it was in agreement with the pro-war positions that most social-democratic parties other than the Bolsheviks took.

Of course, among many modern leftists, opinions about the legacy of the Soviet Union are divided and we may criticize the Soviet Union, but the Soviet Union was a great country anyway and the world got so bad after their collapse.

>>2197994
>Nazi Germany was going to be defeated be cause they were r*tards no matter the economic policy.
For a "supporter of materialism", this is a insane idealistic nonsense, also the NEP and the people defending it (bukharin, kamenev) were plotting to murder stalin, if collectivization and the five year plans never happened, the german reactionaries and counterrevolutionaries which were armed as hell could surpass the soviet industry easily and crushing the revolution.
You is nothing but a crypto capitalist kautskyite

>Stalin bad
All of you kill yourselves, you all are not communists but a bunch of infantile disorders posing as such, stalin was the greatest marxist in the human history and had grand knowledge, he is never wrong and i am not arguing

>>2198151
/thread

>>2198149
>NEP and the people defending it (bukharin, kamenev)
Who were fighting against NEP before it was implemented, btw

>Stalin bad
t. totally not a lib

Stalin made sacrifices to save communism, if it wasn't for Stalin the Soviet Union would've collapsed long before he himself died. Stalin foresaw that should communism collapse that would lead to a black reaction and here we are living in it. Communism needs to be brutal and so called authoritarian to weather the storm of capital. It doesn't just take some few politicians to resist capital but takes the collective discipline of all the working class masses to resist. The harsh reality, the harsh truth is communists must accept is that perhaps Marx did in his time have more humanistic views even more "liberal" ideas of achieving socialism and the DOTP but history has changed that reality and proven that it won't just take the working class winning political power and doing some reforms, it'll take much much more sacrifice to resist the inevitable capital flight and even capital's unleashed force to crush any revolutionary state. The weak will always submit to pressure and so you need authoritarianism to resist, you need "fortress communism" in order to weather the storm and hope that the revolution spreads and that capital no longer has any recourse or place to run and only then can you let go of the war mentality. Permanent revolution is vindicated and so is Stalin's fortress communism, both must work in tandem in order to win. The road to freedom will be paid in blood and sweat and tears, it won't be easy, people will even hate the leaders but when victory has been achieved and the fear of capital is no longer there then we can breath a sigh of relief and only then can the working class declare itself free and only then can authoritarianism end.

>>2197950
the whole Stalin period, and what matters to the anticommunist is GAY SEXXX

>>2198026
>Why exactly Leon here?

Bukharin is in that meme, not Trotsky

>>2198149
Nazi Germanoid would eventually crumble because of its extremely antiscientific and contradictory nature BUT, it would have crumbled after at least a few decades of existence, in which they would have genocided and enslaved literally gazillions.
So it’s not just whether they would fall (ofc they would) but HOW EARLY OR LATE. And for this, we thank Comrade Stalin for his service to humanity for ever and ever.

>>2198299
>Nazi Germanoid would eventually crumble because of its extremely antiscientific and contradictory nature BUT,
capitalism is also antiscientific and contradictory yet because it's global size it can maintain itself indefinately, Nazism is capitalist in every sense so it would only fall after a long time, no diferent than the colonial era of the US for example.
as alway stalin is a hero.

>>2197994
And the China that you defend so passionately pisses on Bukharin and respects Stalin.
Stalin’s policies do not defer much from the ‘old bolsheviks’ he got rid of, he just knew when and in what order to implement them. For example, for Stalin it was not a matter of NEP vs dekulakisation/mass industrialisation. It was how long to keep the NEP, and when to stop it in order to dekulakise, and use its fruits to start the rapid industrialisation.

>>2198302
I agree. Slavery in America eventually crumbled but it did take centuries. Dumb leftypoller does not see the difference between Nazis existing for 12 years vs Nazis existing for 120 years.

>>2197850
Stalin slander, feels good man.

what exactly in this article was he wrong about in your opinion?

>>2198306
>Stalin’s policies do not defer much from the ‘old bolsheviks’ he got rid of

Old bolsheviks weren't old bolsheviks. That's the funny myth trots've been peddling

>>2197950
This is why the Soviet union fell btw

>(Rule 14f - low-quality sectarian bait)
mods are such retarded babies


Unique IPs: 41

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]